The Man of Sin of II Thessalonians 2: 3

[Kinjaffa]

One thing to bear in mind here is that the way God deals with Israel differs to the way he deals with the 'gentiles'. He deals with Israel as a nation and one of these days he will turn from the gentiles to the Jews, as he turned from the Jews 2000 years ago to the gentiles. God deals with christians on an individual basis - one on one. The gentiles' days are numbered and the threat they face does not come from 'muslim' countries but from something nearer to home, something which would deceive the elect, if it were possible. Islam is distinctively different and wouldn't deceive christians in the slightest. Wolves in sheep clothing within the framework of the christian world would.

Besides, hatred for Israel doesn't really come from Islam or Mohammed. It is the seed of Ishmael warring against the seed of Israel. The seed of Ishmael hate Israel because they are not the chosen people of God (although they think they are). In the end, the whole world will turn against Israel but God will establish them. Just you wait and see.

It is not Islam, or Communism but it is Roman Catholicism that christians must fear. All I can say further on this subject is just wait and see. It is going to happen regardless of what anyone might say. Islam attacks the Word from without. Roman Catholicism attacks the Word from within. Which is more dangerous? Fear God though and believe His Word, and you need not fear anything.

I don't think we should be resorting to telling people they are unwise and foolish. It is quite unchristian-like. Also, demanding someone to prove something is what the world would do. They want proof. Christians live by faith, nothing else. If you cannot understand something, leave it and move on. God will reveal to you what he wants you to know. We cannot learn this Bible intellectually. It is by revelation and revelation only! We need to approach a difficult or controversial subject carefully and prayerfully, and mind not to say silly comments about people. We need to maintain our testimony.

You seriously think that Islam is not a threat to Christianity? You don't think that Islam is deceiving Christians? Clearly you don't understand how rapidly Islam is growing. There are now more Muslim mosques in England than Christian churches. You need to realize that Islam is not only a religion, it is also a government system. Islam calls for the establish of Sharia Law (which by the way is pure evil) in ALL countries. The Muslims are bent on a world conquest and they are gaining ground at an alarming rate. You can hardly turn a page in the Qur'an without seeing a decree that all Christians and Jews must be murdered.

If you think that the antichrist and his followers will come from a Roman Catholic background, I must ask you to think about three things:

1) Daniel 11:38 states that the antichrist will serve a "god of war". Catholics do no serve a god of war, but Muslims do!

2) Daniel 11:39 states that the antichrist will attack the strongest nations of earth in the name of his god of war. Catholics don't do this, but Muslims sure do!

3) Daniel 11:37 states that the antichrist will not respect the God loved by women. Catholics do not fit this description at all, but Islam does!

Furthermore, you should read an AMAZING book called "Proverbs". It is basically a field manual on how to spot a fool, and what to do about it. Long story short, it is our duty as followers of YHWH/Yeshua to help point each other in the right direction.

You say that Christians are not supposed to ask people to prove their statements? Then perhaps you disagree with the Bible:

Acts 17:11 "These people were more willing to listen than the people in Thessalonica. The Bereans were eager to hear what Paul and Silas said and studied the Scriptures every day to find out if these things were TRUE."

The Berean Christians searched the scriptures to see what was true and what was not. This is what we should all aim for. The Bible is HUGE and full of lots of good stuff!

You say that Christians live by faith, and nothing else? Then you must disagree with Yeshua (Jesus) and Yacob (James):

Matthew 7:21 "21 “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’"

Read Matthew 25:31-46 and see what happens to those who ONLY have faith.

Look at what the Messiahs own brother had to say about what we should live by.

James 2:24 "24 So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone."

You seem to be one of the people who believe what Shaul (Paul) said. He claimed that salvation is gained by ONLY having faith.

I am one of those people who believe what the Messiah said. Yeshua (Jesus) and his brother Yacob (James) said that salvation goes to those who have faith, and by what we do.

I pray that you and EVERYONE thinks reallllly hard on all these things. Shalom.

 

[Eagle_Eyes]

I find your sarcasm and implication that I am a fool inappropriate and, quite frankly, a tad bit offensive. It does appear that you've forgotten that the Bible says that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places.

I know what I believe is the truth whether you think it is or not, as it has been vindicated to be so. I don't propose to continue debating with you unless you can control yourself and stop referring to people as fools, and telling them where they will end if they don't believe what you believe. There is a right way and a wrong way of saying things. Your way is rude and not how a Christian should conduct themselves.

God bless!

 

[rodd]

Kinjaffa,

With due respect, you'll find in time that its the freemasons or (occult) that control western finance, military and politics.
Indeed the West has been in the hands of the occult for at least the last 500 years, with infiltration by the Roman Catholic Jesuits, they control all western Politics and Media.
Kennedy and Lincoln were shot because they knew of the corruption and sort to change the looting of the American nation. Their black ops boys did the job.
Unfortunately that is the sorry story of the West, mascarading itself as Christian.
Do believe the next Pope will be the false prophet, the eigth or last king pope according to Rev 17, remember, the whole world is decieved!!!
Checkout about Kennedy and the Fed Reserve Bank.

Sincerely, God Bless.

 

[Kinjaffa]

Kinjaffa,

With due respect, you'll find in time that its the freemasons or (occult) that control western finance, military and politics.
Indeed the West has been in the hands of the occult for at least the last 500 years, with infiltration by the Roman Catholic Jesuits, they control all western Politics and Media.
Kennedy and Lincoln were shot because they knew of the corruption and sort to change the looting of the American nation. Their black ops boys did the job.
Unfortunately that is the sorry story of the West, mascarading itself as Christian.
Do believe the next Pope will be the false prophet, the eigth or last king pope according to Rev 17, remember, the whole world is decieved!!!
Checkout about Kennedy and the Fed Reserve Bank.

Sincerely, God Bless.

There are numerous times throughout the Bible where phrases like "the whole earth" or "all the earth" are used, but in a non literal fashion.

Daniel 2:39 "After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over THE WHOLE EARTH."

Please note that the Greeks NEVER ruled the whole earth, they never even conquered India!

Daniel 4:1 "King Nebuchadnezzar sent this message to the people of every race and nation and language THROUGHOUT THE WORLD: (continued)"

If you want to take this literally, then I suppose every single nation on the planet got his message, including the Chinese.

Matthew 3:5 " People from Jerusalem and from ALL OF JUDEA and all over the Jordan Valley went out to see and hear John."

Again, I suppose, in a literal fashion, that every monarch, cripple, lawyer, prisoner, rabbi, man, woman and child in Judea came to hear John?

The whole world doesn't always literally mean "the whole world". If it did, then the above Biblical verses, as well as hundreds of others, would be incorrect.

So keep this in mind when you read that the great prostitute, the beast, the Antichrist or the false prophet have any kind of effect on "the whole world". The truth is, that they only have effect on those who they have control over. Just as Nebuchadnezzar made his decree go "throughout the whole earth", in reality his message only went as far as his kingdom.

Furthermore, if you really do believe that the WHOLE WORLD will be deceived by the agents of Lucifer in the book of Revelation, might I ask you about the 144,000? These people surely are not deceived! Also, we know that during the great tribulation, there will be a LARGE number of people who are saved and clearly NOT deceived. (Revelation 7:9-17)

Shalom

 

[Kinjaffa]

I find your sarcasm and implication that I am a fool inappropriate and, quite frankly, a tad bit offensive. It does appear that you've forgotten that the Bible says that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places.

I know what I believe is the truth whether you think it is or not, as it has been vindicated to be so. I don't propose to continue debating with you unless you can control yourself and stop referring to people as fools, and telling them where they will end if they don't believe what you believe. There is a right way and a wrong way of saying things. Your way is rude and not how a Christian should conduct themselves.

God bless!

Thank you for the compliments =D

Do you know that both Eliyahu (Elijah) and Yeshua (Jesus) were masters of sarcasm and satire?

Check this out! (I Kings 18:21-39) - Here, Eliyahu uses SARCASM to mock the prophets of Baal and make fun of their god! How awesome is that?!

And this! (John 18:22-23) - Here, a temple guard smacks Yeshua in the face and taunts him, and Yeshua SARCASTICALLY replies to his question "If I said anything wrong, you must prove it. But if I’m speaking the truth, why are you beating me?" Keep in mind, that is usually not the way you speak to a roman guard! This is Yeshua's sarcasm at its best, right in the face of danger!

This too! (Matthew 6:16) - Here is one of the MANY instances where Yeshua SARCASTICALLY calls the religious teachers hypocrites/vipers/evil doers.

This one if my favorite sarcastic line from Yeshua! (Luke 7:24-26) - Here, Yeshua SARCASTICALLY pokes fun at the crowds initial expectation for John the Baptists physical appearance. As we all know John the Baptist worse camel fur and ate locust, so Yeshua SARCASTICALLY said, "were you expecting to see a man dressed in expensive clothes?" BAHAHAHA, Yeshua is awesome!

You see, there is nothing wrong with sarcasm. Yeshua and his prophets used it repeatedly and so should we!

You said, "Your way is rude and not how a Christian should conduct themselves". Why are you judging me? You are not the Messiah!

 

[JudgeDan]

Ii thessalonians 2:1-12 --- addressed

Chad/Brothers/Sisters, Let us praise the book of God the Scripture of the Blessed Jesus this that is more real than life for the Holy Life within it.
Amos 3:7, also Seek and You Will Find.

And behold the never failing sense of purpose, structure, security, and psychological grounding, that arise from the motions of the Law; and how the mere act of defining a thing as good or bad, or pure or impure, or permitted or forbidden, gives an individual an automatic and very real dignity not obtainable otherwise; for by refraining from what is evil and pursuing what is good, the individual finds himself elevated, purified, and ennobled, freed from reliance upon the acceptance or rejection of men, and brought into the presence of the power and the peace that preceded and transcends the world.



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ON THE NATURE AND DOOM OF THE <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace><st1laceName>SOVIET</st1laceName><st1laceType>STATE</st1laceType></st1lace>
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II THESSALONIANS 2:1-12



Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, called Lenin, metamorphosed and passed now into the collectivity of the Soviet State, his lie indelibly fused with Russian nationalism by the shock of invasion — but the name of the wicked shall rot

1 Now we ask, brothers, of you concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 That you not become quickly shaken in mind or agitated, either by a spirit or by word or by a letter as though from us, saying that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means, for that day will not arrive without the coming of the Apostasy first and the revelation of the man of sin, doomed to destruction,
4 Who so opposes and exalts himself over everything that is called a god or that is an object of worship that he would even sit himself down in the <st1lace><st1laceType>temple</st1laceType> of <st1laceName>God</st1laceName></st1lace> and present himself as God!
5 Do you not recall that when I was still with you, I said these things to you?
6 And you know what is restraining him now, that he might be revealed in his own proper time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity is already at work, only there is that which restrains it now until it breaks forth out of our midst.
8 And then shall that Wicked One be revealed whom the Lord Jesus will consume by the breath of His mouth and destroy by the manifestation of his presence:
9 Whose coming is by the work of Satan with all power and signs and false omens.
10 And with every wicked deception for those who are to perish — even because they refused the love of the truth that they might be saved.
11 Therefore, even for this, God will send against them a deluding influence that they might believe the Lie.
12 That they might all be condemned who did not believe the truth, but had approved of the evil.

Surely He is ever with us and His mouth has commanded war, that they might all be condemned and perish that are the border of wickedness and the people of His curse against whom He will rage in fury forever, even the tenth part of the city of Pharisees and of servitude and affliction, but it called according to the spirit of it Sodom, ever reprobate, being an eighth and yet one of seven, the very image and projection of that great one, that red one, called world-deceiver and serpent turned dragon (surely his image sharpens with the passing of the kingdoms), sprung whole from the drivel of these his Synagogue whose spite was turned to horror and themselves to ashes — so may all Your enemies perish, O Lord — filled with names of blasphemy and ever growing wrath, for the nameless hosts whose blood cries out, blood of saints and blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
“For we will destroy this place, because their cry has become great before the presence of the LORD; and the LORD has sent us to destroy it.”
— Genesis 19:13
And they said again, “Hallelujah!” And her smoke will rise up forever and ever.
— Revelation 19:3

And the beast had seven heads, and one of them was “as it were wounded to death” at the fall of Rome, but “its deadly wound was healed” in this Western Civilization, and they are seven kings which are kingdoms, as in Daniel 7:17 and 23, for he says of the heads, “and those are seven kings,” which are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and Arabia, and there is an eighth to appear at the end, the metamorphosed form of the Eastern Empire, which is the beast itself, “that was and is not and yet is” — “I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spoke: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed, and given to the burning flame” — bearing the full measure of the impurity, guile and fury of its master, and that is the Marxist tyranny of the Third Rome, for “the beast that was and is not, that is even the eighth, but is one of the seven, and goes to destruction” (Daniel 7:11; Revelation 13:3; 17:7-11). And this Soviet Union foreshadowed in Sodom — the fire, the cave, contamination, and the great fear — is the Edom of the Old Testament latter-day prophecies as well, the godless petulant one who, returning weary and in defeat from the high places of the field, despised his heritage for a seething cauldron of a thing alien and unknown, becoming through it that Red One made for blood whom blood shall pursue, rebuilt now since the Second World War but destined for destruction and everlasting burnings, the habitation only of the monsters of the ancients, even as the Synagogue of Satan when vengeance seized hold of it, twisted and doomed mutant forms that struggle and scurry in the deathsmoke; and truly, “Though you might grind a fool in a mortar among kernels with a pestle, his folly would still not depart from him” (Genesis 19:1-30; 25:27-34; Proverbs 27:22; Isaiah 34; Malachi 1:2-5; and Hebrews 12:16; and <st1:country-region><st1lace>Edom</st1lace></st1:country-region> means “red one” and Esau “fully made”).

— Barry I. Hyman
CHRISTIAN <st1:stockticker>REV</st1:stockticker>OL<st1:stockticker>UTI</st1:stockticker>ONARY BROTHERHOOD

Peace Be With You All
JudgeDan

 

[Sonseeahray]

The posts on this thread seem to be exclusively from the Futurist school of belief. And so based on my past experience I expect that my historically based post will not be of any value to anyone here. I decided to post it anyway just to let you know that there are other ways of interpreting these passages of Scripture.

It's difficult to comment on just one subject as many are closely linked together, so I am covering more than just the topic of this thread.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 (NASB)
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, [4] who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. [5] Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? [6] And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he may be revealed. [7] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. [8] And then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

Paul was not prophesying an event that would happen for over 2,000 years or more. Since Thessalonians was written in 52AD he was writing about events that would happen in only 14 years in his future. We know this from hindsight. Josephus tells us that a few days before Passover in 66AD - a bright light was seen leaving the Temple – The Shekinah Glory of God. It moved to the top of the Mount of Olives and remained there for about 3 1/2 years all through the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. (The same identical thing happened before the destruction of Solomon's Temple.) Jesus was crucified on this very location on top of the Mount of Olives around 30AD. On Pentecost of 66AD a commotion was heard in the Temple and voices said in unison, "We are departing Hence.” And the Heavenly host left the Temple of God. It was now totally abandoned by God and the restraining Shekinah was now gone - just as Paul prophesied.

A short time later the rebellion began in the city. The event that triggered the rebellion is when Eleazar Ben Ananius [the grandson of the Ananius of Jesus' day] convinced the Priests in the Temple to stop offering the daily sacrifices to the Emperor in Rome. This in itself was an act of war. Eleazar was the governor of the Temple. From this point the rebellion escalated [see Josephus]. When the news of the rebellion reached Agrippa II – he dispatched an army to put down the rebellion. While fighting Agrippa's Army in the city the Zealots or terrorists took refuge in the Temple because it was in itself a fortress. These were the two signs that Jesus had told his followers to watch for. The Abomination of Desolation in the Holy Place and the army around the city. Eleazar was that man of lawlessness that Paul talked about. This is the record of history – it is not Futuristic and does not need to be speculated about at all. The army of Agrippa failed and a few weeks later General Cestius Gallus arrived in Jerusalem with the 12th Legion.

When these two signs appeared in 66AD – Daniel's clock started running and 1,290 days later the daily sacrifice failed for want of Priests to offer it. This was on Tammuz 17th – a day of infamy in Jewish history. Much to everyone's shock and surprise the Zealots surrendered just 45 days later (on Elul 8th 70AD) the war was finally over. This was Daniel's 1,335 days. God cut this time short for the elects sake. The obedient Christians had fled in 66AD; but I believe that there were many people who came to the realization that Jesus was indeed the Messiah during this time of extreme tribulation – these were the elect.

 

[micolr]

I could kiss you! So nice to hear people who love truth and look for it in the WORD OF GOD, not popular culture or books written by men.

II Thessalonians ch.2 proves there isn't a pre-trib rapture. We will not gather back to Christ untill AFTER that man of sin be revealed.
The popular rich and famous pre-tribbers twist Scriptures,write "Left Behind" books,make movies and convince Biblically ignorant people that they are going to be raptured before anti-christ appears.
There's big bucks,fame,and undue respect associated with the ear tickling false modern day pre-trib rapture doctrine.

Don't be deceived by false teachers. Investigate the origin of the pre-trib rapture doctrine!

 

[micolr]

The man of sin suffers a mortal wound, but comes back from death.(Or so people think) Are you going to say that a "company of christians" suffer a mortal wound?
So, an entire group of people suffer a wound but then come back to life?
As Charlie Brown would say, "Good grief!"

Well, not that suprised about the first post. Just wanna add little although I don't intend going into this now seeing that "He that has an ear should have been hearing what the Spirit is saying to the churches"

The man of sin as recorded in the book of thessalonia is not a single person rather its a companies of religious christian. Just like the Man Child recorded in the book of revelation 12 was not just a singular person rather, its a company of overcomers.

Also the numbers 666 represent a Beastly Kingdom. It means man in his full carnal natures. These can be broken down like these: man in the spirit, man in the soul and man in the body, which means God has no place in man any longer. Example of partial beastly kingdom is Hitler!

The days are not far fetch, the natural disaster you are seeing in Japan and will yet see in some other nations like...... are just paving ways for what is about to come to the world.

Who then is a wise man, whom the Lord will give charge of His house to, to feed His sheep in this due season. Blessed is the man whom his Lord will find doing so.
It is time to feed on the Lord like never before, you wanna be part of overcomers company? Then, the price is waiting and feeding on the Lord daily.

Don't forget that it is two kind of companies we are looking at:
1. The man of sin company
2.The overcomers company. These two are in progression(both in nurturing and growing) waiting for the time to be manifested to the world.

 

[Greatness4life]

The man of sin suffers a mortal wound, but comes back from death.(Or so people think) Are you going to say that a "company of christians" suffer a mortal wound?
So, an entire group of people suffer a wound but then come back to life?
As Charlie Brown would say, "Good grief!"

Sorry friend, I can't really get your question. Can you speak in plain language please? I will try to explain what I meant when I posted that.