The Most Unpardonable Sins

[Bill]

The rapture is why Jesus is calling every believer to be ready or else for why He has led me to call those that have gone astray to repent of certain iniquities so those iniquities do not deny Him for why He would deny them at the rapture, even though He still abides in those unrepentant saints & former believers that get left behind because He is faithful to keep their souls while they suffer being left behind.

I had sent reproofs your way for doing the Catholic "holy" communion and for honoring Mary so that you may repent and leave the Catholic Church to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor rather than be left behind to incur His wrath for thinking willfully that there is more sacrifice for sins, thus becoming a vessel unto dishonor in His House for how God is still judging those left behind as His people as they become the prodigal son for still being astray when He comes.

You dont even know what you are talking about .

All you are doing is following a line of preachers who dont know what they were preaching either , when it comes to what catholics believe

First off , who is the author of scripture? Jesus . Good. And it was Jesus that inspired the writers, and God that inspired those in the pages of scripture , Right. Yes , good .

So Why aren't YOU following Scripture??? What is your excuse ??? Oh , i am sorry, does it make you look too catholic . Lol

 

[Bill]

The rapture is why Jesus is calling every believer to be ready or else for why He has led me to call those that have gone astray to repent of certain iniquities so those iniquities do not deny Him for why He would deny them at the rapture, even though He still abides in those unrepentant saints & former believers that get left behind because He is faithful to keep their souls while they suffer being left behind.

I had sent reproofs your way for doing the Catholic "holy" communion and for honoring Mary so that you may repent and leave the Catholic Church to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor rather than be left behind to incur His wrath for thinking willfully that there is more sacrifice for sins, thus becoming a vessel unto dishonor in His House for how God is still judging those left behind as His people as they become the prodigal son for still being astray when He comes.

So when you find " YOU ARE STILL HERE " what excuse will you , your preacher , your church make to explain why the great excape failed. Lol

 

[GodB4Us]

You dont even know what you are talking about .

All you are doing is following a line of preachers who dont know what they were preaching either , when it comes to what catholics believe

First off , who is the author of scripture? Jesus . Good. And it was Jesus that inspired the writers, and God that inspired those in the pages of scripture , Right. Yes , good .

So Why aren't YOU following Scripture??? What is your excuse ??? Oh , i am sorry, does it make you look too catholic . Lol

You would have more credence to that post when you address the scriptures that were given for what Jesus is warning saved believers about in being ready or else.

So are you following these scripture below?

To heed His warning by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily so as to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son to be fruitful as His disciples to not only gain the crown by His grace & by His help, but to avoid being cut off in becoming a castaway is how one fears ( respect ) the Lord in living this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

It will be grievous for those saved believers that get left behind as they will receive a scourging as in stripes for not being ready before He comes as the Bridegroom.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

 

[GodB4Us]

So when you find " YOU ARE STILL HERE " what excuse will you , your preacher , your church make to explain why the great excape failed. Lol

Since the rapture is when God will judge His House first and those left behind are in iniquity which is a work that denies Him for why He would deny them, then I would say I must have been in some iniquity that I knew not about but I do not see why I would be when I am trusting Jesus Christ to be my Good Shepherd and Friend to help me to follow Him, not my former church or any other "famous" preacher.

Who are you trusting to be your personal Good Shepherd & Friend to help you to follow Him? The Catholic Church? Best rethink that, brother.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

To heed His warning by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily so as to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son to be fruitful as His disciples to not only gain the crown by His grace & by His help, but to avoid being cut off in becoming a castaway is how one fears ( respect ) the Lord in living this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

Thanks, but I'd like to be more mindful of his warning about false prophets and the attitude of complacency in the Laocidean church. Those are two pitfalls bigger than anything else.

 

[GodB4Us]

Thanks, but I'd like to be more mindful of his warning about false prophets and the attitude of complacency in the Laocidean church. Those are two pitfalls bigger than anything else.

Then let us talk about why the Lord is warning that church to repent or else.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Now compare it with the parable below.

Matthew 22:And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

This verse 5 above reminds me of Luke 14:15-24 in how those bidden to the King's supper did not come because of the excuses for the cares of their lives. In a lot of ways, valuing what they have on earth that they have no need for Heaven above as the church of the Laodiceans seem to harbor, thus naked of their wedding garment as the other ones were found in continuing in the reference below.

6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Now is this warning something believers need to take heed of at the end of the great tribulation, let alone during the great tribulation? There is a supper and it is held in Heaven for why these believers are not ready as they were naked of their wedding garment. How can any saved believer would make light of Jesus coming as the King of kings in favor of the cares of this life as if they are rich and have need of nothing when they need the mark of the beast to buy & sell during the great tribulation?

So as you say false prophets and complacency in the church, are the two main concerns and yet citing only one of the churches in Revelation while another church at Thyatira was warned to repent or else be cast into the great tribulation.

What is true for consequence for the church at Thyatira if they do not repent, will also be true for the church of the Laodiceans if they do not repent for how the Lord will rebuke and chasten them in leaving them behind being naked. See?

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Then let us talk about why the Lord is warning that church to repent or else.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Now compare it with the parable below.

Matthew 22:And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

This verse 5 above reminds me of Luke 14:15-24 in how those bidden to the King's supper did not come because of the excuses for the cares of their lives. In a lot of ways, valuing what they have on earth that they have no need for Heaven above as the church of the Laodiceans seem to harbor, thus naked of their wedding garment as the other ones were found in continuing in the reference below.

6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Now is this warning something believers need to take heed of at the end of the great tribulation, let alone during the great tribulation? There is a supper and it is held in Heaven for why these believers are not ready as they were naked of their wedding garment. How can any saved believer would make light of Jesus coming as the King of kings in favor of the cares of this life as if they are rich and have need of nothing when they need the mark of the beast to buy & sell during the great tribulation?

So as you say false prophets and complacency in the church, are the two main concerns and yet citing only one of the churches in Revelation while another church at Thyatira was warned to repent or else be cast into the great tribulation.

What is true for consequence for the church at Thyatira if they do not repent, will also be true for the church of the Laodiceans if they do not repent for how the Lord will rebuke and chasten them in leaving them behind being naked. See?

Repentance means a change of perspetive. Not change of behavior, not even mind, but perspective. I often use this food analogy to explain, that everyone knows broccoli good, doughnut bad, but doughnut is instant gratification, it's cheap and available everywhere, everytime; broccoli on the other hand requires time, effort and a kitchen to cook, that's quite a few hurdles of inconvenience to jump over. You can beat yourself up to eat broccoli for a while, but willpower is finite. Someday when you're really hungry and/or tired at the end of a long day, and the good ole doughnut right there in your sight, your psysiological need will trump your discipline, and before you know it, you've already guzzled down a whole box, and you're back to square one. In this case, what must take place is a change of perspetive, from craving doughnuts and loathing broccoli to craving broccoli and loathing doughnuts, and to have this new eating habit imprinted in your cell memories, aka, "having the law written in their hearts", until next time when you're hungry and/or tired, you automatically go to the broccoli while ignoring all the doughnut along the way.

Now how do false prophets and complacency fit into this analogy? You've probably heard this for decades - calorie in, calorie out! Eat as many doughtnuts as you want, you can always sweat it off with exercise! That's the biggest deception in every false religion, that your sins can be outweighed by your good deeds. The truth is, you can never outrun your fork, calorie counting is a sham. What you eat is much more important than how much you eat. The complacent Laodiceans are falling for this false religion without awareness of its deception and grave consequences. They know a lot about the merits of broccoli and the sins of doughnut, they may even look good from the outside, as "an appearance of righteousness", but deep down they're still metabolically unhealthy, and yet they believe that they deserve a treat of doughnut after a long hard workout session, or after a period of broccoli dieting. That's called yo-yo diet, which often results in more weight bouncing back. Therefore, what it takes is a permanent change of perspective, too see everything spiritually from God's point of view, and only that can lead to a permanent change of mindset, and then behavior, and that is the work of the Holy Spirit.

And lastly, don't mock me for being worldly minded just because I demonstrate my theology with this food analogy. Fasting is one of the basic practices in Christianity. Jesus didn't say "if" you fast, but WHEN you fast (Matt. 6:16-18), and to do that, the bare minimum is no snacking between meals, which means, of course, no doughtnut! If you can't even resist the small temptation of a doughnut, how can you resist greater temptations?

 

[Bill]

Then let us talk about why the Lord is warning that church to repent or else.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Now compare it with the parable below.

Matthew 22:And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

This verse 5 above reminds me of Luke 14:15-24 in how those bidden to the King's supper did not come because of the excuses for the cares of their lives. In a lot of ways, valuing what they have on earth that they have no need for Heaven above as the church of the Laodiceans seem to harbor, thus naked of their wedding garment as the other ones were found in continuing in the reference below.

6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Now is this warning something believers need to take heed of at the end of the great tribulation, let alone during the great tribulation? There is a supper and it is held in Heaven for why these believers are not ready as they were naked of their wedding garment. How can any saved believer would make light of Jesus coming as the King of kings in favor of the cares of this life as if they are rich and have need of nothing when they need the mark of the beast to buy & sell during the great tribulation?

So as you say false prophets and complacency in the church, are the two main concerns and yet citing only one of the churches in Revelation while another church at Thyatira was warned to repent or else be cast into the great tribulation.

What is true for consequence for the church at Thyatira if they do not repent, will also be true for the church of the Laodiceans if they do not repent for how the Lord will rebuke and chasten them in leaving them behind being naked. See?

You do know that God is Not warning a church as an institution right he's warning the church as the people of God

 

[GodB4Us]

You do know that God is Not warning a church as an institution right he's warning the church as the people of God

The body of believers, yes, I know that. In regards to Revelation, they always addressed the body of believers at a place or a city. Not all in that place had that errant doctrine as He did point out in His rebuke to the body of believers at Thyatira in Revelation 2:18-25, but the warning and the risk is the same if those that were not of that doctrine, were to change their status with the Lord by engaging in that errant doctrine and spiritual fornication at that place.

The risk and the consequence is being cast into the great tribulation if they do not repent. So what good is the warning to repent to avoid that is they were going to be in the great tribulation anyway? So the rapture is real but not every saved believer will be ready for when the Bridegroom comes to take the abiding bride of Christ to the wedding reception in Heaven for why Satan, the accuser of our brethren in heaven now day and night will be kicked out. thus the devil knows he has little time left for why the inhabitants in Heaven will be rejoicing at the Marriage Supper table.

 

[TheWordIsOne]

greetings
everyone must go through trials, no exception

 

[Bill]

The body of believers, yes, I know that. In regards to Revelation, they always addressed the body of believers at a place or a city. Not all in that place had that errant doctrine as He did point out in His rebuke to the body of believers at Thyatira in Revelation 2:18-25, but the warning and the risk is the same if those that were not of that doctrine, were to change their status with the Lord by engaging in that errant doctrine and spiritual fornication at that place.

The risk and the consequence is being cast into the great tribulation if they do not repent. So what good is the warning to repent to avoid that is they were going to be in the great tribulation anyway? So the rapture is real but not every saved believer will be ready for when the Bridegroom comes to take the abiding bride of Christ to the wedding reception in Heaven for why Satan, the accuser of our brethren in heaven now day and night will be kicked out. thus the devil knows he has little time left for why the inhabitants in Heaven will be rejoicing at the Marriage Supper table.

I think part of the problem that you're having is you presuppose that by accepting Jesus as Lord that not only are all your former sins forgiven but all your future sins are forgiven .too

So let us think about that for a minute you have a new Christian that comes to the Lord and all the past sins are forgiven that's correct now the new Christian gets really angry at somebody else and he's told that all his future sins are forgiven all right so that Christian goes out and kills somebody and you know what he's saying to himself it's okay because God has forgiven me.

Why would Jesus teach us the Our Father if all our sins are forever forgiven.

Our Father who is in heaven holy is your name your kingdom come your will be done on Earth as it is in heaven give us today our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but Deliver Us from Evil amen

I'm sure the King James Bible and a few others have a little different variation of it but it's still the same

Why would we ask the Lord to forgive us our sins if Jesus has already done the forgiveness

It is true that Jesus died on the cross once for everyone sin. But we still need to seek forgiveness from what we do every single day.

 

[GodB4Us]

I think part of the problem that you're having is you presuppose that by accepting Jesus as Lord that not only are all your former sins forgiven but all your future sins are forgiven .too

When it comes to salvation, yes. That is how that foundation is laid by Jesus Christ which can never be removed and how that seal of adoption is not going anywhere for why we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit in us. The works on that foundation will be judged but that foundation remains just as that seal of adoption does too for why even former believers are called t depart from iniquity because He still abides in them..

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

When it comes to abiding in Him as His disciples, repentance by His help and by His grace is necessary if desiring to be received by Him as His disciple, the vessel unto honor, the abiding bride of Christ at the rapture event.

Those who do not look to Him for help to depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes, will be left behind to die but their spirits will be with the Lord per 1 Corinthians 3:15 & 2 Corinthians 5:7-8 because we will be judged by what we built on that foundation 2 Corinthians 5:9-11 for why and how there are vessels unto dishonor in his House, vessels of wood and earth that did not depart from iniquity per 2 Timothy 2:19-21 that will be resurrected after the great tribulation.

So let us think about that for a minute you have a new Christian that comes to the Lord and all the past sins are forgiven that's correct now the new Christian gets really angry at somebody else and he's told that all his future sins are forgiven all right so that Christian goes out and kills somebody and you know what he's saying to himself it's okay because God has forgiven me.

Why would Jesus teach us the Our Father if all our sins are forever forgiven.

Our Father who is in heaven holy is your name your kingdom come your will be done on Earth as it is in heaven give us today our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but Deliver Us from Evil amen

I'm sure the King James Bible and a few others have a little different variation of it but it's still the same

Why would we ask the Lord to forgive us our sins if Jesus has already done the forgiveness

It is true that Jesus died on the cross once for everyone sin. But we still need to seek forgiveness from what we do every single day.

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This is why "holy communion", the confessional booth, going to Mary because Jesus is mad at them & Jesus will not say no to Mary rationalization, and the last rites are totally unnecessary when any Catholic can go straight to Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. Indeed, those Catholic things can be a thief when a Catholic seek forgiveness right away from Jesus Christ when time does not allow for anything else, and yet they believe they cannot come to Him right away and yet He is the only One that can forgive them of their sins and on top of that, cleanse them from all unrighteousness as a result.

Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

I believe Jesus is saying that because He knows saved believers will be needing forgiveness from Him on a daily basis as He taught us to pray so why believe something else is required when we should be free to come to Him?.

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Reads to me that the Father is readily & willing to forgive & the only stipulation is us being willing to forgive others too. No hurdles of confessional booths, Mary, last rites or "holy communion" to bring that forgiveness of sins about.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I think part of the problem that you're having is you presuppose that by accepting Jesus as Lord that not only are all your former sins forgiven but all your future sins are forgiven .too

So let us think about that for a minute you have a new Christian that comes to the Lord and all the past sins are forgiven that's correct now the new Christian gets really angry at somebody else and he's told that all his future sins are forgiven all right so that Christian goes out and kills somebody and you know what he's saying to himself it's okay because God has forgiven me.

Why would Jesus teach us the Our Father if all our sins are forever forgiven.

Our Father who is in heaven holy is your name your kingdom come your will be done on Earth as it is in heaven give us today our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but Deliver Us from Evil amen

I'm sure the King James Bible and a few others have a little different variation of it but it's still the same

Why would we ask the Lord to forgive us our sins if Jesus has already done the forgiveness

It is true that Jesus died on the cross once for everyone sin. But we still need to seek forgiveness from what we do every single day.

Our sins are definitely forgiven, if you believe Jesus's final outcry on the cross - IT IS FINISHED, or "paid in full", and unfortunately that's what most Christians, especially Catholics fail to recognize. Jesus took away all sins of mankind by becoming sin on the cross as the ultimate sacrificial lamb, that's for sure, but the thing is, sin is a trifecta of three Ps - Penalty, Presence and Power. What was paid in full is the PENALTY of sin, that did NOT remove the PRESENCE and the POWER of sin. Sin continues to mount, until "the transgression reaches its fullness", then it will be poured out upon the entire earth in the Great Tribulation, after that Jesus will return. Until then, we're in a lifelong process of sanctification, and that's the job of the Holy Spirit.

So the conclusion is, yes, all are forgiven, but no, not all will be accepted, for many are called, but few are chosen. If you believe that we're in a relationship with Jesus, then it is necessary to realize that in a legit relationship, the feeling must be MUTUAL. While you accept your partner, your partner must accept you as well. If you fall in love with a girl, but she NEVER KNEW YOU, then that's a crush, an infactuation, an obsession, or just lust, depending on how far your feelings go, but that's not love.

 

[Bill]

When it comes to salvation, yes. That is how that foundation is laid by Jesus Christ which can never be removed and how that seal of adoption is not going anywhere for why we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit in us. The works on that foundation will be judged but that foundation remains just as that seal of adoption does too for why even former believers are called t depart from iniquity because He still abides in them..

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

When it comes to abiding in Him as His disciples, repentance by His help and by His grace is necessary if desiring to be received by Him as His disciple, the vessel unto honor, the abiding bride of Christ at the rapture event.

Those who do not look to Him for help to depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes, will be left behind to die but their spirits will be with the Lord per 1 Corinthians 3:15 & 2 Corinthians 5:7-8 because we will be judged by what we built on that foundation 2 Corinthians 5:9-11 for why and how there are vessels unto dishonor in his House, vessels of wood and earth that did not depart from iniquity per 2 Timothy 2:19-21 that will be resurrected after the great tribulation.

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This is why "holy communion", the confessional booth, going to Mary because Jesus is mad at them & Jesus will not say no to Mary rationalization, and the last rites are totally unnecessary when any Catholic can go straight to Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. Indeed, those Catholic things can be a thief when a Catholic seek forgiveness right away from Jesus Christ when time does not allow for anything else, and yet they believe they cannot come to Him right away and yet He is the only One that can forgive them of their sins and on top of that, cleanse them from all unrighteousness as a result.

Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

I believe Jesus is saying that because He knows saved believers will be needing forgiveness from Him on a daily basis as He taught us to pray so why believe something else is required when we should be free to come to Him?.

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Reads to me that the Father is readily & willing to forgive & the only stipulation is us being willing to forgive others too. No hurdles of confessional booths, Mary, last rites or "holy communion" to bring that forgiveness of sins about.

I cant expect you to fully grasp the things of the catholic, but listening to preachers who try to justify themselves by comdeming their own brothers and sisters. You should walk away from those preachers, as they will spend eternity with the devil.

 

[Bill]

Our sins are definitely forgiven, if you believe Jesus's final outcry on the cross - IT IS FINISHED, or "paid in full", and unfortunately that's what most Christians, especially Catholics fail to recognize. Jesus took away all sins of mankind by becoming sin on the cross as the ultimate sacrificial lamb, that's for sure, but the thing is, sin is a trifecta of three Ps - Penalty, Presence and Power. What was paid in full is the PENALTY of sin, that did NOT remove the PRESENCE and the POWER of sin. Sin continues to mount, until "the transgression reaches its fullness", then it will be poured out upon the entire earth in the Great Tribulation, after that Jesus will return. Until then, we're in a lifelong process of sanctification, and that's the job of the Holy Spirit.

So the conclusion is, yes, all are forgiven, but no, not all will be accepted, for many are called, but few are chosen. If you believe that we're in a relationship with Jesus, then it is necessary to realize that in a legit relationship, the feeling must be MUTUAL. While you accept your partner, your partner must accept you as well. If you fall in love with a girl, but she NEVER KNEW YOU, then that's a crush, an infactuation, an obsession, or just lust, depending on how far your feelings go, but that's not love.

You must be following the " Done " thinking , it is a false teaching .

The rest of scripture doesnt agree with that. There would be no point to seek to be Christian then. Why should i strive to do good , if all my sins are gone. All i have to do is accept Jesus as Lord. I can now do whatever i want. ... is this what you believe ?

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You must be following the " Done " thinking , it is a false teaching .

The rest of scripture doesnt agree with that. There would be no point to seek to be Christian then. Why should i strive to do good , if all my sins are gone. All i have to do is accept Jesus as Lord. I can now do whatever i want. ... is this what you believe ?

Nope, I made it abundantly clear, Jesus will have to accept us as the Bride as well. If not, there were several parables that demonstrated the consequence.

 

[GodB4Us]

I cant expect you to fully grasp the things of the catholic, but listening to preachers who try to justify themselves by comdeming their own brothers and sisters. You should walk away from those preachers, as they will spend eternity with the devil.

When the Catholic Catechism condemns Catholics that although incorporated in the Church and doing the sacraments, if they do not persevere in charity, they are not saved.... one can understand why preachers are calling them out of it as it robs the joy of their salvation in Christ Jesus to running a treadmill like a mouse, going nowhere, thus laboring in unbelief when they are saved for believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead.

Paragraph 3. THE CHURCH IS ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321

I would not be surprised if some Catholics wished they had never known the gospel of Jesus Christ "and His Church" when they read this below as it condemns all non Catholic Christians but yet testify that unbelievers are saved regardless.

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

Once believers in the Catholic Church sees that the gospel of Jesus Christ is just that, the gospel of Jesus Christ, they may see the vanity of the Catholic church and leave it to rest in Him that they are saved and they can rely on Him as their Good Shepherd to help them follow Him in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ rather than through the Catholic Church.

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Bill]

When the Catholic Catechism condemns Catholics that although incorporated in the Church and doing the sacraments, if they do not persevere in charity, they are not saved.... one can understand why preachers are calling them out of it as it robs the joy of their salvation in Christ Jesus to running a treadmill like a mouse, going nowhere, thus laboring in unbelief when they are saved for believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead.

Paragraph 3. THE CHURCH IS ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321

I would not be surprised if some Catholics wished they had never known the gospel of Jesus Christ "and His Church" when they read this below as it condemns all non Catholic Christians but yet testify that unbelievers are saved regardless.

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

Once believers in the Catholic Church sees that the gospel of Jesus Christ is just that, the gospel of Jesus Christ, they may see the vanity of the Catholic church and leave it to rest in Him that they are saved and they can rely on Him as their Good Shepherd to help them follow Him in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ rather than through the Catholic Church.

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Do you know what it means " preserve in Charety" ? It means, to be filled with Love.

Paul states, that faith alone is like a gong clanging in the wind. Yet in scripture it also states that by faith alone we come to Jesus.

Now many people jump to all sorts of conclusions when reading these, yet the answer is very simple.

The Holy Spirit is always drawing all people to the Lord Jesus. Even those who want nothing to do with the Lord, the Spirit still draws them.

Those who begin to have faith will seek out God and or Jesus.

And in time , they will knock on that door. This is the first level of our faith.

Jesus states, we must go through Jesus to come to the Father. This is where we begin with both Love and Faith.

You can not get to heaven by faith alone, you have to recieve Jesus into your heart.

Where your heart is, so will your treasure be.

All of this is not without struggle. Anyone who thinks being a Christian is only a bowl of cherries, are fooling themselves.

If you are not being tempted by the devil, if the devil isnt harrassing you. Then there is something wrong with your faith. The devil can never temp beyond your ability to seek Jesus.

A charitable person is one who strives to grow in the love of Jesus and the faith given to him by the Holy Spirit

Fan your faith into a flame for all the world to see

 

[Bill]

As a side note to what i wrote above.

If it was only faith, and nothing else. Faith is only a precurser to knowledge.

In heaven your faith will pass away, you will have no need for it, as you will be with Jesus.

So if it only by faith to be in heaven, why are the devils not there. They know more about Jesus than we do while we are here on earth.

When Lucifer rejected God, he rejected love. "God is Love"

And as Paul states, faith without love is nothing.

Something to think about.

 

[GodB4Us]

Do you know what it means " preserve in Charety" ? It means, to be filled with Love.

I am pretty sure that is not what the Catholic Catechism meant but let us apply your meaning; so if you are not persevering to be filled with love at all times, you are not saved? So while you are persevering to be filled with love, you are not saved yet until you are filled with love at all times? Persevering would suggest something that has to be done on an ongoing basis in order to be saved, even though a member of the Catholic Church and so when are you actually going to be saved in order to tell others the Good News in Christ Jesus for salvation?

Here is what the Catholic Catechism says what charity means which is the gift of self.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

"The integrality of the gift of self

2346 Charity is the form of all the virtues. Under its influence, chastity appears as a school of the gift of the person. Self-mastery is ordered to the gift of self. Chastity leads him who practices it to become a witness to his neighbor of God's fidelity and loving kindness."

How did the Catholic Church used that to mean at the beginning of the Catholic Church? Was charity in the catechism meant giving of oneself to the church their tithes and offerings? Was the Catholic Church originally meaning for Catholics to persevere in giving to the Catholic Church in order to be saved?

Since it is a Catholic practice to give a portion of the total giving to Catholic Church, to the superiors above them, I have to wonder if that was not a rule originally based on covetousness from its members.

Indeed, I see in Pope Clement first letter to the Corinthians, it was his attempt to shame the church for refusing to give a portion of the bounty collected at church services to their collectors from Rome as if the superiors in Rome has a right to it.

While it is debatable as to how I see what charity meant as a gift of self to the Catholic Church per their official catechism of what charity means, your explanation doesn't really dispel the notion that a Catholic is not saved yet and may never be saved since he has to persevere in being filled with love if you still believe that is what "charity" is to mean.

Just saying you are saved when you had believed in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead. I hope the Lord will lead you to believe that simplicity of the gospel, the Good News in Christ Jesus, because I do not see any Good News in the Catholic Catechism at all. Just a whole lot of uncertainties in the end for why it cannot be the gospel of Jesus Christ nor the Good News to man.