The Nativity
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B-A-C
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Luke 1:26; Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth,
Luke 1:27; to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin's name was Mary
Luke 1:34; Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
Luke 1:35; The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
Jesus was is called the Son of God "for that reason" - because Mary was impregnated by God as the Holy Spirit.
Luke 2:5; in order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.
Matt 1:18; Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
Before they came together, means before they had sexual relations. Mary was pregnant before Joseph ever had sexual relations with her.
Matt 1:20t But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. Not by Joseph. (at least not for the birth of Jesus)
Mat 1:22; Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
Mat 1:23; "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."
God with us. Not just another human baby... but actually GOD.
Matt 1:24; And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,
Matt 1:25; but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.
Joseph continued not to have sexual relations with Mary until after Jesus was born.
Isa 7:14; "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.
Luke 1:27; to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin's name was Mary
Luke 1:34; Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
Luke 1:35; The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
Jesus was is called the Son of God "for that reason" - because Mary was impregnated by God as the Holy Spirit.
Luke 2:5; in order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.
Matt 1:18; Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
Before they came together, means before they had sexual relations. Mary was pregnant before Joseph ever had sexual relations with her.
Matt 1:20t But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. Not by Joseph. (at least not for the birth of Jesus)
Mat 1:22; Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
Mat 1:23; "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."
God with us. Not just another human baby... but actually GOD.
Matt 1:24; And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,
Matt 1:25; but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.
Joseph continued not to have sexual relations with Mary until after Jesus was born.
Isa 7:14; "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.
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The prophecy of the Christ required Jesus to be born of a virgin. To deny Jesus was born of a virgin, is to deny that Jesus is the Christ.
Isa 7:14; "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.
1 Jn 4:2; By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus is the Christ come in the flesh is from God;
1 Jn 4:3; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
King James puts it like this...
Luke 1:35; And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
The power of the Holy Spirit will cause you to be pregnant, not the seed of a man. "therefore" (because of this)
the Holy Child born from you will be called ... "the Son of God"!
meaning, He is not the off-spring of the seed of man. Jesus calls himself "the Son of man".... because....
Gal 4:4; But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
Isa 7:14; "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.
1 Jn 4:2; By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus is the Christ come in the flesh is from God;
1 Jn 4:3; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
King James puts it like this...
Luke 1:35; And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
The power of the Holy Spirit will cause you to be pregnant, not the seed of a man. "therefore" (because of this)
the Holy Child born from you will be called ... "the Son of God"!
meaning, He is not the off-spring of the seed of man. Jesus calls himself "the Son of man".... because....
Gal 4:4; But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
Adziilii
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● Matt 1:24-25 . . When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord commanded. He brought Mary home to be his wife, but she remained a virgin until her son was born.
The couple didn't marry right away. According to Luke 2:1-7 they journeyed to Bethlehem as an engaged couple rather than a married couple.
At first glance it appears that Mary and Joseph began shacking up; but I hardly think so. The Bible says Joseph was a righteous man. Well; righteous men don't shack up. The "home" that Joseph brought Mary to was likely his family's home rather than a bachelor pad.
Preachers sometimes compose whole sermons to explain why Joseph didn't sleep with Mary right away, but the fact of the matter is: she and Joseph weren't wed till sometime after Jesus was born. Well; righteous men are men of character with high moral standards; viz: they don't sleep with women they aren't married to. It's that simple.
_
● Matt 1:24-25 . . When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord commanded. He brought Mary home to be his wife, but she remained a virgin until her son was born.
The couple didn't marry right away. According to Luke 2:1-7 they journeyed to Bethlehem as an engaged couple rather than a married couple.
At first glance it appears that Mary and Joseph began shacking up; but I hardly think so. The Bible says Joseph was a righteous man. Well; righteous men don't shack up. The "home" that Joseph brought Mary to was likely his family's home rather than a bachelor pad.
Preachers sometimes compose whole sermons to explain why Joseph didn't sleep with Mary right away, but the fact of the matter is: she and Joseph weren't wed till sometime after Jesus was born. Well; righteous men are men of character with high moral standards; viz: they don't sleep with women they aren't married to. It's that simple.
_
Adz -- Scripture tells us that Mary gave birth to Jesus in a manger-- there was no room for them anywhere else. They were with the animals.
They were traveling because Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire roman world. Everyone went to his own town to register.
Joseph went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David. vs 5 He went there to register with Mary, who was pledge to be married to him and expecting a child.
vs 6 - 7 " while they were there, the time came for the baby to be born and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son."
If they were 'shacking up' as you're suggesting, it was on the back of a donkey / walking to their destination. Not comfortable while your pregnant.
Actually Scripture doesn't say exactly -- only that Jesus was circumsized on the 8th day and then He was taken to Jerusalem.
And actually, the Matthew 1 passage says that the angel of the Lord told Joseph to not be afraid to take Mary home with you as your wife. So -- sounds like they were married even Before leaving for the census.
Also -- the were married but not physically connected until after Jesus birth.
Yep -- Scripture is pretty simple, isn't it. High moral standards are taught in Scripture and Mary and Joseph followed them.
Preachers Do preach sermons on very interesting subjects. Sometimes they do present all possible angles and then give the Correct / Scriptural one.
They were traveling because Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire roman world. Everyone went to his own town to register.
Joseph went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David. vs 5 He went there to register with Mary, who was pledge to be married to him and expecting a child.
vs 6 - 7 " while they were there, the time came for the baby to be born and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son."
If they were 'shacking up' as you're suggesting, it was on the back of a donkey / walking to their destination. Not comfortable while your pregnant.
Actually Scripture doesn't say exactly -- only that Jesus was circumsized on the 8th day and then He was taken to Jerusalem.
And actually, the Matthew 1 passage says that the angel of the Lord told Joseph to not be afraid to take Mary home with you as your wife. So -- sounds like they were married even Before leaving for the census.
Also -- the were married but not physically connected until after Jesus birth.
Yep -- Scripture is pretty simple, isn't it. High moral standards are taught in Scripture and Mary and Joseph followed them.
Preachers Do preach sermons on very interesting subjects. Sometimes they do present all possible angles and then give the Correct / Scriptural one.
Ivar
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Part 2 Virgin
Isa 7:14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa 7:14 ThereforeH3651 the LordH136 himselfH1931 shall giveH5414 you a sign;H226 Behold,H2009 a virginH5959 shall conceive,H2029 and bearH3205 a son,H1121 and shall callH7121 his nameH8034 Immanuel.H6005
Virgin H5959 "Alma"
virgin,damsel, maid of marriageable age
Isa 7:14
Isa 7:14
Virgin H5959 "Alma"
virgin,damsel, maid of marriageable age
Ivar
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Before Pregnant and Explanation
Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
After Pregnant
Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Keywords/Phrases
1. espoused = legally pledged
2. before they came together,
3. publick example
Coming Together Process
Deu 22:13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,
Deu 22:14 And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:
Deu 22:15 Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:
Deu 22:16 And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;
Deu 22:17 And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.
Deu 22:18 And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
Deu 22:19 And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.
Deu 22:20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
Deu 22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the ***** in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
Ok Joseph could be the father if they had sex before they came together "in accordance with Hebrew tradition / coming together process"
Joseph not willing to make publick example ; Joseph may have broke her hymen thru intercourse so there can be no proof of tokens of virginity.
Then virgin birth would have to be when a virgin conceives after having sex for first time " along those lines"
Of course this is only possible if scriptures are not contradicted and imply this
Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
After Pregnant
Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Keywords/Phrases
1. espoused = legally pledged
2. before they came together,
3. publick example
Coming Together Process
Deu 22:13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,
Deu 22:14 And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:
Deu 22:15 Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:
Deu 22:16 And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;
Deu 22:17 And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.
Deu 22:18 And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
Deu 22:19 And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.
Deu 22:20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
Deu 22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the ***** in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
Ok Joseph could be the father if they had sex before they came together "in accordance with Hebrew tradition / coming together process"
Joseph not willing to make publick example ; Joseph may have broke her hymen thru intercourse so there can be no proof of tokens of virginity.
Then virgin birth would have to be when a virgin conceives after having sex for first time " along those lines"
Of course this is only possible if scriptures are not contradicted and imply this
Adziilii
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● Luke 1:31-32 . . Listen carefully: you will conceive in your womb and bear a son . . and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father.
In order for David to be Jesus' father, he had to be Mary's father too because her pregnancy wasn't man-made.
Stay with me because I'm going to trace Jesus' biological genealogy all the way back to Adam.
● Acts 13:22-23 . . "I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will." Of this man's seed hath God, according to His promise, raised unto Israel a savior, Jesus.
● Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh
The koiné Greek word for "seed" in those two passages is sperma (sper' mah) which is a bit ambiguous because it can refer to spiritual progeny as well as to biological progeny; for example:
● Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed.
That seed is obviously spiritual progeny. But the seed in Acts 13:22-23 and Rom 1:1-3 is biological progeny because David's seed is "according to the flesh" i.e. his physical human body.
Now, unless somebody can prove clearly, conclusively, iron clad, and without spin and sophistry that David's body was in no way biologically related to Adam's body, then we have to conclude that baby Jesus' body was also biologically related to Adam's body.
Taking this a step further:
Eve's body was made from Adam's body. (Gen 2:21-23)
Consequently, when children are conceived by women that are biologically related to Eve, then the women and the children are biologically related to Adam: whether naturally-conceived or virgin-conceived makes no difference, i.e. every child that biologically descends from Eve also biologically descends from Adam.
● Gen 3:15 . . I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.
It's pretty much agreed by most Christians that Eve's predicted offspring was realized in Christ; which means that baby Jesus was not only Eve's biological offspring but Adam's too because her body was made from material amputated from Adam's body.
So then; in order to cut Jesus out of Adam's biological posterity it would be necessary to cut Mary out of Eve's biological posterity; and I've yet to encounter anyone either online or in church able to do that.
_
● Luke 1:31-32 . . Listen carefully: you will conceive in your womb and bear a son . . and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father.
In order for David to be Jesus' father, he had to be Mary's father too because her pregnancy wasn't man-made.
Stay with me because I'm going to trace Jesus' biological genealogy all the way back to Adam.
● Acts 13:22-23 . . "I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will." Of this man's seed hath God, according to His promise, raised unto Israel a savior, Jesus.
● Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh
The koiné Greek word for "seed" in those two passages is sperma (sper' mah) which is a bit ambiguous because it can refer to spiritual progeny as well as to biological progeny; for example:
● Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed.
That seed is obviously spiritual progeny. But the seed in Acts 13:22-23 and Rom 1:1-3 is biological progeny because David's seed is "according to the flesh" i.e. his physical human body.
Now, unless somebody can prove clearly, conclusively, iron clad, and without spin and sophistry that David's body was in no way biologically related to Adam's body, then we have to conclude that baby Jesus' body was also biologically related to Adam's body.
Taking this a step further:
Eve's body was made from Adam's body. (Gen 2:21-23)
Consequently, when children are conceived by women that are biologically related to Eve, then the women and the children are biologically related to Adam: whether naturally-conceived or virgin-conceived makes no difference, i.e. every child that biologically descends from Eve also biologically descends from Adam.
● Gen 3:15 . . I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.
It's pretty much agreed by most Christians that Eve's predicted offspring was realized in Christ; which means that baby Jesus was not only Eve's biological offspring but Adam's too because her body was made from material amputated from Adam's body.
So then; in order to cut Jesus out of Adam's biological posterity it would be necessary to cut Mary out of Eve's biological posterity; and I've yet to encounter anyone either online or in church able to do that.
_
Ivar -- the only 'problem' with translating that Hebrew word as anything other than Virgin is that it entirely destroys Jesus conception and birth as 100 % deity as well as 100 % human.
And That is what lots of people Want. Society wants that word translated as 'damsel' or 'maiden of marriageable age'. And a virgin would Not be conceiving from anyone to produce a child. Medically speaking it simply isn't possible. However, that was the point -- and it's the Only time in history that That would happen. And Jesus Christ is the only 'man' / Son of God / in history to die for our sins and rise again from the dead after 3 days.
These days virginity upon marriage is unusual. Lots of young ladies loose their virginity during high school or college.
In your next post -- you're in Old Testament practices. The prophesy Did take place in Isaiah -- Old Testament but was looking Towards New Testament.
So -- sounds like you're 'suggesting' that Mary and Joseph Could have 'cheated' a bit. They actually Did come together and her pregnancy was the result of Joseph being with her?
And I have no idea of what 'tokens of virginity' means. A cloth spread out before the elders of the city?! Unless they're talking about the fact that when a woman's hymen is broken there's a bit of bleeding. So a cloth is put under her and upon first time intercourse there would be blood and if it wasn't first time there would be no blood. Breaking the hymen would be painful.
Hopefully -- Scripture -- being God's Word IS believed and miracles Are believed.
And, without the virgin birth -- there is no Savior. Jesus would Then be just another Jewish baby being born -- becoming a religious leader of that day and dying a horrible death on the cross -- simply as a martyr of that day.
But That is Not what Scripture is about, is it. Scripture Is all about God providing a Savior for us. Without a Savior, mankind is doomed to eternity in hell.
And That is what lots of people Want. Society wants that word translated as 'damsel' or 'maiden of marriageable age'. And a virgin would Not be conceiving from anyone to produce a child. Medically speaking it simply isn't possible. However, that was the point -- and it's the Only time in history that That would happen. And Jesus Christ is the only 'man' / Son of God / in history to die for our sins and rise again from the dead after 3 days.
These days virginity upon marriage is unusual. Lots of young ladies loose their virginity during high school or college.
In your next post -- you're in Old Testament practices. The prophesy Did take place in Isaiah -- Old Testament but was looking Towards New Testament.
So -- sounds like you're 'suggesting' that Mary and Joseph Could have 'cheated' a bit. They actually Did come together and her pregnancy was the result of Joseph being with her?
And I have no idea of what 'tokens of virginity' means. A cloth spread out before the elders of the city?! Unless they're talking about the fact that when a woman's hymen is broken there's a bit of bleeding. So a cloth is put under her and upon first time intercourse there would be blood and if it wasn't first time there would be no blood. Breaking the hymen would be painful.
Hopefully -- Scripture -- being God's Word IS believed and miracles Are believed.
And, without the virgin birth -- there is no Savior. Jesus would Then be just another Jewish baby being born -- becoming a religious leader of that day and dying a horrible death on the cross -- simply as a martyr of that day.
But That is Not what Scripture is about, is it. Scripture Is all about God providing a Savior for us. Without a Savior, mankind is doomed to eternity in hell.
Every human being has DNA -- that's a given. Every person is 'related' to other people through DNA. No person has the DNA of any animal. Genetically we are all human beings -- with dominant and recessive genes.
Jesus's body came from Mary. He had her DNA / genetics as a person. When Jesus Christ was born, He was 100 % human And 100% deity. But He was Deity 1st and foremost.
Well - there's only been One virgin birth in history. And That was a miracle so that mankind could have a Savior.
Everyone except Jesus was naturally conceived. Now -- unless your including invitro fertilization. I think that's the correct term. When a woman's egg and man's ***** are put in a petri dish and maybe conception will take place. And then That is put into the woman's womb and hopefully 'that' will 'take' and she will be pregnant. Sometimes it does and sometimes not. Women can take fertilization drugs to help her conceive..... but 'this' is entirely off topic.
Well -- put in practical perspective. I / Everyone has a family tree. I can trace my biological family back a couple of generations. My family line comes from Germany and Sweden.
The first people were Adam and Eve. And they had many children through their very long lives. And then the human DNA continued through Noah and his wife and family. And since then, people have been born and died. That is human life.
The term 'amputation' usually means that a part of a body was removed because of disease or accident. So -- Jesus took a part of Adam's rib to construct Eve from and it was not diseased or accidental.
The difference between Jesus Christ and us is that He has always been 100 % deity. We are 100 % human. Jesus 'lost' is human DNA at His death or resurrection in His glorified body.
I'm thinking that it's already been determined that both Mary and Joseph came from the line of David. And that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Ivar
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@Sue D.
We must look at the Hebrew definitions and culture to get the best understanding of certain words.
Now a teen pregnancy or teen birth is seen as a teenager that has a child
A virgin birth could be a woman who has intercourse for the first time and carries it to term.
I am currently gathering the strongest argument I can find for Joseph being the father according to the flesh and I will post.
We must look at the Hebrew definitions and culture to get the best understanding of certain words.
Now a teen pregnancy or teen birth is seen as a teenager that has a child
A virgin birth could be a woman who has intercourse for the first time and carries it to term.
I am currently gathering the strongest argument I can find for Joseph being the father according to the flesh and I will post.
Ivar -- may I ask Why you are trying to get Joseph to be the father of Jesus? when Scripture says that Mary was conceived of the Holy Spirit. God's Word says Joseph had No physical relationship with Mary until After Jesus was born.
Sounds like you're trying to take away the deity of Jesus Christ.
Sounds like you're trying to take away the deity of Jesus Christ.
Actually, Biblical morality would be a woman / young lady being a virgin when they marry. Everyone should be refraining from a sexually intimate relationship until they are married.
Mary was a young lady who was a virgin at the time that the Holy Spirit came upon her and she became 'with child' and Jesus Christ was born -- Immanuel = God with us.
Ivar
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@Sue D.
Joseph either is or is not the Father according to the flesh. Either way that does not and would not take away from Christ pre-existence
Samson also was born of the Holy Spirit however that does not mean Manoah was not his father according to the flesh.
One could say Samson mother was barren when the holy spirit came upon her.
I see no evidence that someone cannot be born of the Holy Spirit and have a male father according to the flesh.
The Holy Spirit coming upon people or women is nothing new.
Judges 13:3 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son.
The factor of the matter is that Judges 133:3 could not take place unless the Holy Spirit was active.
Hekuran
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You didn'the answer Sue D's question. Why are you trying to show that Joseph was Jesus' biological father?
Ivar
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@Hekuran
My answer is Joseph either is or is not the Father according to the flesh. Then I expounded a bit further.
I am not trying to get Joseph to be the father neither am I not trying to get Joseph to be the Father. He either is or he is not and the word will reveal that.
Are you looking for a certain or more particular answer?
Ivar -- Scripture already says that Joseph was Not the biological father of Jesus. According to Matthew 1:18 "...... she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. and then vs 20 ......be cause what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. And vs 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus, Because He will save His people from their sins."
Luke 1:34 - 35 "How will this be, : Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin. The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One to be born will be called the Son of God."
Scripture already says what it says,
Luke 1:34 - 35 "How will this be, : Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin. The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One to be born will be called the Son of God."
Scripture already says what it says,
