The Nativity

[Curtis]

@Curtis
I'm an Antichrist huh? That's an interesting way to shame believers of the bible. I will have you know that the immaculate conception is of this world; going back to Semiramis, just as Easter, and Christmas. You don't seem to understand that the scriptures imply and hint of Christ being the Son of God in the beginning.Before he even took on flesh. However my apologies you should not be conversing with an Antichrist. Those who do not believe in an Immaculate Conception are Antichrist? In actuality those who do not believe that Christ is The Fathers anointed who came in the flesh are antichrist or nonbelievers.

Technically Joseph is flesh so why would i not believe this

1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

In actuality those that do not belive in @Curtis words or disagrees with them are Antichrist. If that is the case i understand.

If you do not believe that Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, but born of Joseph, has the spirit of "Antichrist" in them which explains a lot of why you say the things you do on this forum.

 

[Curtis]

@Curtis post #40 is also for you to then Mr. Virgin Expert

you are making no sense at all!!

 

[Ivar]

you are making no sense at all!!

@Curtis am I making no sense or could you be lacking understanding?
Here is further understanding;

The prophecy of a Virgin was written in a Hebrew language "Isaiah 7:14" not Gentile one like we are speaking "English and English Translations".
As you should know words can potentially lose their intended meaning when translated. "lost in translation"
So:
1. What Hebrew word was used to signify the type of virgin that Mary was?
2. Define an Almah
3. Define a Bethuwlah
4. What are the differences and similarities between these two ?
5. What does each emphasize?
6. Why was Almah used instead of Bethuwlah in Isaiah 7:14?

 

[B-A-C]

Almah (al-maw)
Noun Feminine
damsel , maid, virgin

virgin young woman.
of marriagle age
maid or newly married

There can be no instance where it can be proved that 'alma' designates a young woman who
in not a virgin. The fact of virginity is obvious in Gen 24:43; where 'alma' is used of one who
is being sought as a bride for Isaac.

The fact that she is is a maid, or young woman, or even newly married (which was not the case with Mary when she became pregnant)
has nothing to do with the fact that they are a virgin (never had sexual intercourse).

 

[B-A-C]

Definition of VIRGIN
I don't always agree with the newer webster dictionary, as it has changed the meaning of some words over the last 30 years. (I have a webster dictionary over 100 years old)
But I notice the first and foremost definition of a virgin is... someone who never had sexual intercourse.

virgin
noun

vir·gin | \ ˈvər-jən \
Definition of Virgin
(Entry 1 of 3)
1a: a person who has not had sexual intercourse
b: a person who is inexperienced in a usually specified sphere of activity
2a: an unmarried woman devoted to religion
bcapitalized : VIRGO
3a: an absolutely chaste young woman
b: an unmarried girl or woman
4capitalized : VIRGIN MARY
5: a female animal that has never copulated

 

[Curtis]

@Curtis am I making no sense or could you be lacking understanding?
Here is further understanding;

The prophecy of a Virgin was written in a Hebrew language "Isaiah 7:14" not Gentile one like we are speaking "English and English Translations".
As you should know words can potentially lose their intended meaning when translated. "lost in translation"
So:
1. What Hebrew word was used to signify the type of virgin that Mary was?
2. Define an Almah
3. Define a Bethuwlah
4. What are the differences and similarities between these two ?
5. What does each emphasize?
6. Why was Almah used instead of Bethuwlah in Isaiah 7:14?

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Mary was found pregnant before Josephs and Mary were ever married.

 

[Curtis]

Mat 1:23 “Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel, which means ‘God is with us.’”
Mat 1:24 When Joseph woke up, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded and took Mary as his wife.
Mat 1:25 But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus. (NLT)

 

[Ivar]

Unanswered
3. Define a Bethuwlah
4. What are the differences and similarities between these two ?
5. What does each emphasize?
6. Why was Almah used instead of Bethuwlah in Isaiah 7:14?

And if you did then I doubt we would be having this back and forth still

 

[B-A-C]

Luke 1:31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.
32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;
33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.”
34 Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God

If Mary was having sex with someone, why would she ask "How can this be"? Why would she say "I am a virgin" to the angel?
There is no context this can be taken as, where Mary was expecting a child from being with a man.
In fact the angel's answer to Mary's question (How can this be, since I am a virgin) is... the Holy Spirit will overshadow you. Why didn't the angel say Joseph will overshadow you.
Because Joseph is not Jesus's biological father.

 

[Ivar]

@B-A-C
Still Unanswered "also dealing with the Hebrew since prophecy concerning Christ originally written in Hebrew, focusing on the source language and culture"
3. Define a Bethuwlah
4. What are the differences and similarities between these two ?
5. What does each emphasize?
6. Why was Almah used instead of Bethuwlah in Isaiah 7:14?

And if you did then I doubt we would be having this back and forth still
Not good to put cart before the horse

also I realized you have not answered my other question in the other post
"@B-A-C where does our spirit come from when we are conceived in the womb? and how would it get there?"

There seems to be much deflection and or silence. Why respond to me when you ignore my questions? lol

 

[B-A-C]

Look up parthenos from Matthew 1:23; Matthew 1:23; is a quote of Isa 7:14;

Bethuwlah makes no differnce, it can also mean unmarried or newly married... and yes just like Almah.. it means "no sexual intercourse".

The meaning "newly married" cannot be applied to Mary in this case, so that leaves the defintion of "no sexual intercourse".

 

[Sue D.]

The prophesy in Isaiah 7:14 regarding a virgin is in Hebrew language and is fulfilled in Matthew 1 in the Greek language. And the Isaiah passage says His name will be call Immanuel -- Matthew 1:22 "All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet (Isaiah) : "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call Him Immanuel which means "God with us".

And 'we' have it all nicely translated into whatever language is needed -- in our case it's English.

 

[Ivar]

Look up parthenos from Matthew 1:23; Matthew 1:23; is a quote of Isa 7:14;

Bethuwlah makes no differnce, it can also mean unmarried or newly married... and yes just like Almah.. it means "no sexual intercourse".

The meaning "newly married" cannot be applied to Mary in this case, so that leaves the defintion of "no sexual intercourse".

@B-A-C That is like saying the Greek words for Love make no difference. or the words girl or woman making no difference because they are both female. Perhaps you should do a more thorough look at the two their is a significant difference .

Lastly consider Alma is used 7 times and Betuwlah used atleast 50 times in Old Testament

I am sticking with Hebrew right now and not getting into Greek because their does not seem to be a full comprehension of Alma and Betuwlah.

 

[Curtis]

@B-A-C
Still Unanswered "also dealing with the Hebrew since prophecy concerning Christ originally written in Hebrew, focusing on the source language and culture"
3. Define a Bethuwlah
4. What are the differences and similarities between these two ?
5. What does each emphasize?
6. Why was Almah used instead of Bethuwlah in Isaiah 7:14?

And if you did then I doubt we would be having this back and forth still
Not good to put cart before the horse

also I realized you have not answered my other question in the other post
"@B-A-C where does our spirit come from when we are conceived in the womb? and how would it get there?"

There seems to be much deflection and or silence. Why respond to me when you ignore my questions? lol

No doctrine can be made from a single scripture. All scriptures that talks about the virgin birth must take the full weight of all scriptures before anything can be said to be a doctrine, or true.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Luke 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

The virgin birth is simple to understand to those who are of the truth!!

 

[Ivar]

@Curtis No doctrine can be made if you do not understand the words of your doctrine. Refrain from constantly avoiding questions and deflecting if possible

 

[Curtis]

@Curtis No doctrine can be made if you do not understand the words of your doctrine. Refrain from constantly avoiding questions and deflecting if possible

Are you saying you are smarter than those who translated the words from Hebrew to English? I don't think so. Besides there are many other scriptures that speak of the virgin birth. All Christians believe in the virgin birth or they would not be a Christian!! If you fail in believing the virgin birth, you will also fail in all the areas that require belief. Do you know why Christians are called believers? Because we believe what scriptures says!!!!

 

[Ivar]

Are you saying you are smarter than those who translated the words from Hebrew to English? I don't think so. Besides there are many other scriptures that speak of the virgin birth. All Christian believe that or they would not be a Christian!! If you fail in believing the virgin birth, you will also fail in all the areas that require belief. Do you know why Christians are called believers? Because we believe what scriptures says!!!!

@Curtis than yourself perhaps. especially if our conversation proves that . However even if I am we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Prefer if you not try to deflect as usual though. if you do not know you can remain silent or ignore. i rather you do that than deflect or us possible Ad hominems .

Different types of virgins and I know it was an Alma birth. Would have been nice to impart some wisdom but I guess i don't know what I am talking about lol

 

[Curtis]

@Curtis than yourself perhaps. especially if our conversation proves that . However even if I am we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Prefer if you not try to deflect as usual though. if you do not know you can remain silent or ignore. i rather you do that than deflect or us possible Ad hominems .

Different types of virgins and I know it was an Alma birth. Would have been nice to impart some wisdom but I guess i don't know what I am talking about lol

If I keep my mouth shout when I see unbelief and error, than what good am I? I will always expose the darkness of untruth when I see it. It is not that you do not know the truth, it is that you do know it, but have consciously decided not to believe what you know as truth! That is called "unbelief"

Pro 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

 

[Sue D.]

A virgin is a female who has never had sex. Fairly simple. ---- different types of virgins?!?

 

[Sue D.]

@Curtis
All men have an inclination to sin. Christ overcame that inclination and therefore was blameless or remained innocent.
An infant has that inclination to sin but is unable to sin therefore is blameless.
Sin is transgression of the law. And the law is spiritual because it is based off our intentions to Sin
If you know any laws that an infant has transgressed or has intended to transgress then feel free to state them.

Yes, Scripture tells us that all people have an inclination to sin.

Christ didn't have anything To overcome -- He was the Son of God. He was born into this world for the purpose of showing 'us' to God the Father AND more specifically to die on the cross for Our sins. He was born in innocense -- remained that way. Ascended back up to the Father in heaven.