The offer of Salvation is universal, but the application is only : "by Faith".

[God's Truth]

Of course Jesus saves unbelievers, He saves sinners ! 1 Tim 1:13-15


13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

You sound ridiculous, Christ doesn’t save unbelievers!

Nowhere does that say Jesus saves unbelievers!

Paul wasn't saved as an unbeliever.

He wasn't even saved when he believed!

He had to believe and repent of his sins!

 

[Brightfame52]

Nowhere does that say Jesus saves unbelievers!

Paul wasn't saved as an unbeliever.

He wasn't even saved when he believed!

He had to believe and repent of his sins!

Of course Jesus saves unbelievers, He saves sinners ! 1 Tim 1:13-15


13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

You sound ridiculous, Christ doesn’t save unbelievers!

 

[God's Truth]

Of course Jesus saves unbelievers, He saves sinners ! 1 Tim 1:13-15

Jesus only says repentant believers.

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

You sound ridiculous, Christ doesn’t save unbelievers!

You are the one who is ridiculous. Paul wasn't saved when he finally believed on that road to Damascus. He had to do some things first.

Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus only says repentant believers.

You are the one who is ridiculous. Paul wasn't saved when he finally believed on that road to Damascus. He had to do some things first.

Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Of course Jesus saves unbelievers, He saves sinners ! 1 Tim 1:13-15

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

You sound ridiculous, Christ doesn’t save unbelievers! One has to be saved to repent

 

[God's Truth]

Of course Jesus saves unbelievers, He saves sinners ! 1 Tim 1:13-15

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

You sound ridiculous, Christ doesn’t save unbelievers! One has to be saved to repent

You are going to just spam now because you don't have truth to defend your false teachings.

God does not save unbelievers.

A person has to believe to be saved.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."



All those scripture are of Jesus saying to believe or be condemned.

Do you really want to keep teaching that Jesus taught that knowing no one can believe in him?

Jesus is NOT cruel and ironic.


Hebrews 3:19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.



It isn't that they weren't able to enter because God did not save them first by making them believe. They weren't able to enter because they did not believe, period. We should not add scripture that isn't there.



Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.



Nowhere does that scripture really mean, "And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God might decide to make them believe".

 

[God's Truth]

@Brightfame52

We do not have life first (regenerated) with Christ before believing; we do not cross over to the body of Christ unless we believe.

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

You insist that we are part of the body of Christ first, before we can believe...


However, I easily prove that belief wrong.

We are NOT a part of Christ UNTIL we are given the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

...and, we do not get the Holy Spirit until after we believe first and repent of our sins.


Acts 19:2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

Acts 19:3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied.

4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues] and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.


THOSE SCRIPTURES PROVE THAT PEOPLE REPENT OF THEIR SINS BEFORE THEY HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT.

 

[Brightfame52]

You are going to just spam now because you don't have truth to defend your false teachings.

God does not save unbelievers.

A person has to believe to be saved.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."



All those scripture are of Jesus saying to believe or be condemned.

Do you really want to keep teaching that Jesus taught that knowing no one can believe in him?

Jesus is NOT cruel and ironic.


Hebrews 3:19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.



It isn't that they weren't able to enter because God did not save them first by making them believe. They weren't able to enter because they did not believe, period. We should not add scripture that isn't there.



Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.



Nowhere does that scripture really mean, "And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God might decide to make them believe".

Once again:

Of course Jesus saves unbelievers, He saves sinners ! 1 Tim 1:13-15

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

You sound ridiculous, Christ doesn’t save unbelievers! One has to be saved to repent

 

[God's Truth]

Once again:

Of course Jesus saves unbelievers, He saves sinners ! 1 Tim 1:13-15

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

You sound ridiculous, Christ doesn’t save unbelievers! One has to be saved to repent

Acts 19:2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

Acts 19:3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied.

4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues] and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.


THOSE SCRIPTURES PROVE THAT PEOPLE REPENT OF THEIR SINS BEFORE THEY HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT.

 

[*Lavender]

Still needs the Holy Spirits help. Romans 8:26-28
The Holy Spirit is omnipresent.
Even present on the earth before Jesus ascended.
David in Psalm 139 said that he couldn't flee from God, no matter where he was.
Peter recognised who Jesus was and not through flesh and blood.

Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and John the Baptist leaped in her womb, through the Holy Spirit.Luke 1:41

The concentration should be on the established new covenant.

Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. John16:8

 

[Brightfame52]

@Brightfame52

We do not have life first (regenerated) with Christ before believing; we do not cross over to the body of Christ unless we believe.

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

You insist that we are part of the body of Christ first, before we can believe...


However, I easily prove that belief wrong.

We are NOT a part of Christ UNTIL we are given the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

...and, we do not get the Holy Spirit until after we believe first and repent of our sins.


Acts 19:2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

Acts 19:3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied.

4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues] and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.


THOSE SCRIPTURES PROVE THAT PEOPLE REPENT OF THEIR SINS BEFORE THEY HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT.

You must have life to both hear and believe. Hearing is a proof of life, just like natural hearing is the evidence of natural life, spiritual hearing is evidence of spiritual life. Faith cometh by Hearing, and thats not talking about mere physical natural hearing, but Spiritual hearing from being spiritually alive.

 

[Brightfame52]

Acts 19:2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

Acts 19:3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied.

4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues] and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.


THOSE SCRIPTURES PROVE THAT PEOPLE REPENT OF THEIR SINS BEFORE THEY HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT.

This doesnt prove anyhing against the fact that Christ saves sinners/unbelievers. That God doesnt save unbelievers is one of the most foolish statements a person can make. Of course Jesus saves unbelievers, He saved Paul from unbelief 1 Tim 1:13-15

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

At one moment Saul was a raving unbeliever, in a instant, Jesus saved him and caused him to be a believer. Read Acts 9. To say Jesus doesnt save unbelievers, you should be ashamed.

 

[God's Truth]

You must have life to both hear and believe. Hearing is a proof of life, just like natural hearing is the evidence of natural life, spiritual hearing is evidence of spiritual life. Faith cometh by Hearing, and thats not talking about mere physical natural hearing, but Spiritual hearing from being spiritually alive.

Nonsense. It is a natural human ability to hear.

 

[God's Truth]

At one moment Saul was a raving unbeliever, in a instant, Jesus saved him and caused him to be a believer. Read Acts 9. To say Jesus doesnt save unbelievers, you should be ashamed.

Saul wasn't saved in an instant. You need to take those Calvin glasses off when you read the Bible.

Paul asked Jesus what must he do, and Jesus told him where to go and it will be told him what he must do.

You are a Calvinist and say the saved are saved before they believe! LOL LOL LOL

So Saul was a saved man after hearing about Jesus as he had people dragged out of their home and put in prison and approved of their deaths?

Give up the false Calvin teachings.

 

[Brightfame52]

Nonsense. It is a natural human ability to hear.

Oh no, you must have spiritual life to hear spiritually. The natural man doesnt have it, therefore cant hear spiritually. He can hear naturally, but that doesnt count.

 

[Brightfame52]

Saul wasn't saved in an instant. You need to take those Calvin glasses off when you read the Bible.

Paul asked Jesus what must he do, and Jesus told him where to go and it will be told him what he must do.

You are a Calvinist and say the saved are saved before they believe! LOL LOL LOL

So Saul was a saved man after hearing about Jesus as he had people dragged out of their home and put in prison and approved of their deaths?

Give up the false Calvin teachings.

Saul was an unbeliever that Jesus saved, contradicting your false philosophy that God doesnt save unbelievers, which is ridiculous, otherwise no unbeliever has any hope of ever being saved. Thats such a foolish statement.

 

[God's Truth]

Oh no, you must have spiritual life to hear spiritually. The natural man doesnt have it, therefore cant hear spiritually. He can hear naturally, but that doesnt count.

Whenever you read about the natural man, that is about a man who is only interested in pleasing his flesh, or her flesh.

The natural person is only interested in pleasing their flesh with sin. There is a certain kind of pleasing the flesh that those who reject Jesus have pleasure in, and it is sinful. To please the flesh with many women and debauchery of all kinds, and with alcohol to excess, and drugs, and the thrill of stealing, and having what is not yours, etc. That is what the Bible means about the natural man.

However, we are not just flesh, we are flesh and spirit.

Not everyone lives according to the flesh.

No.

Some people are more spiritually inclined, and they want more out of this world than to please the flesh.

You misunderstand the scriptures about the natural man because of false teachers that stem from Luther and Calvin.

Luther and Calvin were college men who had to study about various beliefs of men, including Augustine.

They got false beliefs from men whose teachings tickled their ears.

It is a vicious cycle.

It is understandable, but the written Word of God warns us about such things.

Note: There are people who like natural things, like natural food, etc. This is not what the Bible is referring when speaking of the natural man. When the Bible speaks of the natural man, it is speaking about pleasing the flesh, pleasing the flesh with sin.

 

[God's Truth]

Saul was an unbeliever that Jesus saved,

But Jesus didn't save Paul while he was an unbeliever.

contradicting your false philosophy that God doesnt save unbelievers, which is ridiculous, otherwise no unbeliever has any hope of ever being saved. Thats such a foolish statement.

Jesus doesn't save unbelievers he only saves those who believe. Jesus doesn't supernaturally cause people to believe. Now, Paul was born differently from the other apostles, and that means he was not like the Apostles to the Lamb who lived with Jesus while Jesus walked the earth.

No.

Paul was unnaturally born as an Apostle. Jesus had to cause Paul to believe by speaking to Saul. But was Saul saved as soon as he believed? No. No way. Saul believed and said what should I do? Jesus told him where to go and it would be told him what to do. Saul went to the house the Lord told him to go to, and it was told him what he had to do. So then what did Saul do? He fasted, he didn't eat or drink anything for three days. Notice that the people of Nineveh had to fast before they could be saved? The people of Nineveh repented of their sins. You don't think Saul, who spent his time praying for three days as he fasted didn't spend his time repenting of his sins?

Can you imagine what Saul's prayers must have sounded like?

No really, can you imagine what his prayers must have sounded like? Think about it. Saul tried to destroy the church. He had men and women dragged out of their homes and put in prison where they were put to the lions, and were stoned, like Stephen. Think of the horrific pain of realizing that you stood and guarded the clothes men took off so that no one would steal the clothes, the clothes the men took off to make sure blood didn't get blood splattered on it WHILE THEY STONED STEPHAN TO DEATH. That is what Saul did. He guarded over the clothes the men took off, as they stoned Stephan to death.

You don't think Saul PLEAD AND CRIED OUT TO GOD TO FORGIVE HIM OF HIS SINS WHILE HE PRAYED TO GOD?

Answer that please.