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The Purpose of Damnation as Punishment

God is truth and does not lie. The devil himself could be brought to reconciliation and be saved, but prophecy says that won't happen!

Brother RJ Hello,
I mean no disrespect to you but that is totally not true. The devil (satan) can not ever be saved or could there ever be any redemtion for him. It has nothing to do with prophecy. The devil had NO TEMPTOR......there has not ever been any chance what so ever for him to ever be saved or reconciled or anything else. Nope once he rebelled against God it was over for him. Cast out and doomed for eternity is all he has ever had to look forward to.
Blessings
Jim
 
Brother RJ Hello,
I mean no disrespect to you but that is totally not true. The devil (satan) can not ever be saved or could there ever be any redemtion for him. It has nothing to do with prophecy. The devil had NO TEMPTOR......there has not ever been any chance what so ever for him to ever be saved or reconciled or anything else. Nope once he rebelled against God it was over for him. Cast out and doomed for eternity is all he has ever had to look forward to.
Blessings
Jim
Like noses, we all have opinions! Pleases show scripture to support your premises and I will gladly think about reconsidering!
God knew everything before the foundation of everything and had foreknowledge of what Satin would do. No doubt of his demise because the Bible predicts it and based on God's foreknowledge. God's reconciliation is perfect, it can be no other way, and is offered to all who take it!
 
Like noses, we all have opinions! Pleases show scripture to support your premises and I will gladly think about reconsidering!
God knew everything before the foundation of everything and had foreknowledge of what Satin would do. No doubt of his demise because the Bible predicts it and based on God's foreknowledge. God's reconciliation is perfect, it can be no other way, and is offered to all who take it!

Brother RJ slow down and think. Where does it talk about satans fall ? Before you go getting all high minded and start throwing out your opinion minded stuff. What bacvks up your belief ? Scripture does not support that satan could have been saved or reconciled as you said..Think brother.........angels are created spirit beings. They can obey or disobey and that is it. Disobey and they are done and thrown out.

We who have redemption are not created such as the angels or spirit beings are. Wow !
Blessings
Jim
 
Brother RJ slow down and think. Where does it talk about satans fall ? Before you go getting all high minded and start throwing out your opinion minded stuff. What bacvks up your belief ? Scripture does not support that satan could have been saved or reconciled as you said..Think brother.........angels are created spirit beings. They can obey or disobey and that is it. Disobey and they are done and thrown out.

We who have redemption are not created such as the angels or spirit beings are. Wow !
Blessings
Jim
Wow to you brother.
I never said that the devil's fate is not sealed.
God fore-saw it, God ordained it, God promised it and told John to prophesy it ! That is not in question.
The argument is you arrogantly putting limits on a limitless God. It is you saying what he will do and what he won't do, rather than saying what will happen and what won't happen based on scripture.
 
Hello.

A friendly atheist here. (I promise, not trolling for a fight – just some thoughtful Christian perspective.)

My wife and I have two kids. We punish them as part of their upbringing (nothing physical). As far as I can figure, there are only two reasons (and they are admittedly related) why we do:

1. Negative conditioning to correct a misbehavior so that misbehavior acquires bad associations, hence reducing the appeal of repeating that misbehavior in the future.

2. The threat of punishment as a means of deterrence from any particular misbehavior, whether or not this misbehavior has ever been exhibited.

When either of my children misbehave in some way that has wronged a third party, my wife and I see to it that they make amends. However, we do not teach that this is part of their “punishment,” but, instead, a responsibility they bear for the consequences of their misbehavior. An understanding we hope they internalize and carry with them into adulthood.

The “punishment” aspect to their upbringing, then, is simply a training method. When they reach adulthood, and become subject to full responsibility for all their actions and decisions, my wife and I have no intention of “punishing” them from that point onward.

I have read and heard Christian thinkers explain that divine punishment for the unrepentant sinner is akin to a loving parent punishing a wayward child. In that vein, I don’t understand how damnation (whether it be consignment to a literal Hell, with eternal torment we would physically equate to torture, or simply eternal expulsion from God’s presence) parallels either reason why I, as a parent, punish my children. Obviously, the purpose of reason #1 (aversion through conditioning) does not apply because one does not have a second chance to accept Christ once damnation has been sentenced. #2 (deterrence) may be a closer analog, except when I punish my children, even if it is to follow through on a threat that was originally intended as pure deterrence, it is still designed to guide future behavior. And, as I have said, once my children are capable of (and obligated to) their own personal responsibility, my interest in (and the efficacy of) deterrent punishment is useless.

Hence, what is the efficacy of damnation purely as a deterrence? If it fails to deter any single individual from refusing acceptance of Christ prior to Judgement, it can never be applied to that person again.

Finally, the notion of damnation-as-justice doesn’t seem to apply either. As I said, when my wife and I mete out justice to our children, it is so they can make reparations for whatever “crime” or “infraction” they commit. But once that “debt to society” is paid, our children earn full reinstatement in whatever rights to which they (such as a six- and a nine-year-old) are entitled. Justice is a restoration to a peaceful, egalitarian order.

So (thanks if you’ve read this far), where is my disconnect? Is the analogy between parental love and God’s love for His Creation just not a very good one? Or are my motives in, and criteria for, using punishment to discipline my children confused?

PS – For those of you who believe that damnation is not literal torment in a lake of fire, but simply eternal separation from the Grace and glory of God, what is your understanding of how that separation is different (i.e.: worse) than physical life on earth?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.


Damnation is not punishment.

Damnation is justice.
 
Wow to you brother.
I never said that the devil's fate is not sealed.
God fore-saw it, God ordained it, God promised it and told John to prophesy it ! That is not in question.
The argument is you arrogantly putting limits on a limitless God. It is you saying what he will do and what he won't do, rather than saying what will happen and what won't happen based on scripture.

Brother RJ you do not need to get all high minded here and act as I know it all. Mello out.
If the fact that we as believers can limit what God can and will do in our lives is to much for you to grasp then so be it but dont add words to what has been said.

The devil has already been thrown out of Heaven before any of the written word was written. You said there would have been redemption for the devil if it had not been prophesized that he would not. RJ once satan rebelled and weas cast out his fate was sealed. No prophecy has a single thing to do with it.
I simply ask before you start jumping out and getting rude re-read what you write and see if it truly says what you wanted it to. To many times you write one thing and then claim you said something else.
Blessings
Jim
 
Brother RJ Hello,
I mean no disrespect to you but that is totally not true. The devil (satan) can not ever be saved or could there ever be any redemtion for him. It has nothing to do with prophecy. The devil had NO TEMPTOR......there has not ever been any chance what so ever for him to ever be saved or reconciled or anything else. Nope once he rebelled against God it was over for him. Cast out and doomed for eternity is all he has ever had to look forward to.
Blessings
Jim
I think Peter might be considered saved and Jesus called him Satan.
Peter savoured the things of man.
Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

I know he was addressing Satan in Peter but who is satan anyway.
Satan does Satan's will and that is to savour the things of man.
Popular opinion is of the mind that Satan does not like man but that is not quite the case.
Intense research,meditation and prayer is needed before a clear understanding can be developed.

That day Peter was Satan.
 
Brother RJ you do not need to get all high minded here and act as I know it all.
High Minded...really?:rolleyes: Do you feel "Lowly Minded"?
If the fact that we as believers can limit what God can and will do in our lives is to much for you to grasp then so be it but dont add words to what has been said
Yes, please show me where I added words, like it is my own idea! All I have reported is that you appear to say what God can do and can not do. All I have reported is God is sovereign in his power and the ability to do anything. Which of us is high minded...you term not mine!
The devil has already been thrown out of Heaven before any of the written word was written.
O.K., I believe I have said as much! So what is the the beef there?
You said there would have been redemption for the devil if it had not been prophesized that he would not.
Your something else!..I said no such thing. I said that God can reconcile him if he wishes, but according to prophecy, he apparently will not.
RJ once satan rebelled and weas cast out his fate was sealed. No prophecy has a single thing to do with it.
There you go again, please stop! I have said no such thing. Prophecy has nothing to do with God's decisions. God is sovereign and makes decisions as he chooses. Prophecy did not condemn Satan, prophecy just tells us in advance what God has already chosen to do!
To many times you write one thing and then claim you said something else.
I just made a disclaimer on these things that you said I said....please go back and past my exact words and let's just see who is being dishonest!
 
High Minded...really?:rolleyes: Do you feel "Lowly Minded"?

Yes, please show me where I added words, like it is my own idea! All I have reported is that you appear to say what God can do and can not do. All I have reported is God is sovereign in his power and the ability to do anything. Which of us is high minded...you term not mine!
O.K., I believe I have said as much! So what is the the beef there?

Your something else!..I said no such thing. I said that God can reconcile him if he wishes, but according to prophecy, he apparently will not.

There you go again, please stop! I have said no such thing. Prophecy has nothing to do with God's decisions. God is sovereign and makes decisions as he chooses. Prophecy did not condemn Satan, prophecy just tells us in advance what God has already chosen to do!

I just made a disclaimer on these things that you said I said....please go back and past my exact words and let's just see who is being dishonest!

RJ this is the kind of thing I was talking about.
So I will do this ONE TIME just for you.

YOUR WORDS ((God is truth and does not lie. The devil himself could be brought to reconciliation and be saved, but prophecy says that won't happen ))
So as you can see you did say this Brother RJ.....It says what it says.
Be blessed
 
I think Peter might be considered saved and Jesus called him Satan.
Peter savoured the things of man.
Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

I know he was addressing Satan in Peter but who is satan anyway.
Satan does Satan's will and that is to savour the things of man.
Popular opinion is of the mind that Satan does not like man but that is not quite the case.
Intense research,meditation and prayer is needed before a clear understanding can be developed.

That day Peter was Satan.

That is a different take on things.
How about Peters words.....it was what peter had said.......peter was never satan.
 
RJ this is the kind of thing I was talking about.
So I will do this ONE TIME just for you.

YOUR WORDS ((God is truth and does not lie. The devil himself could be brought to reconciliation and be saved, but prophecy says that won't happen ))
So as you can see you did say this Brother RJ.....It says what it says.
Be blessed
To many times you write one thing and then claim you said something else.
What did I say Wired? As I thought you have nothing!
  1. God is truth and does not lie. Hopefully you see the truth here?
  2. The devil himself could be brought to reconciliation and be saved I believe I said could be....could...."Could" is used to express possibility or past ability as well as to make suggestions and requests. "Could" is also commonly used in conditional sentences as the conditional form of "can." I said nothing untrue here, God always has been and is still all powerful and can do as he pleases.
  3. but prophecy says that won't happen )) I agree with God when he tells us , through prophecy, that the devil would not be reconciled! I see no words twisted there, nothing I have said untrue there
  4. So what exactly is it that you disagree with?
  5. Wired, I ask you please, stop making false accusations and simply move on....we differ on who God is but the outcome of Satin is the same....he will not be reconciled!
 
That is a different take on things.
How about Peters words.....it was what peter had said.......peter was never satan.
That day Peter was Satan or son of and jesus was God or rather the son of.
What Peter said was Satan's will what Jesus said was the Father's will.
Did Satan really want to kill Jesus or did he want to promote him to ruler of the earth.
Peter wanted what Satan wanted,to elevate a man.
I wanted to elevate self before I was a believer so I was Satan.
Anyone who's will is different from the Father is Satan.

Ephesians 2:2 And these things in which you walked from the first, you were in them according to the secular life of this world and according to the will of The Ruler of The Authority of The Air and of this spirit which is diligent in the children of disobedience.

Seriously,more diligence in study and prayer is necessary for a more clear understanding of what Satan is.
 
What did I say Wired? As I thought you have nothing!
  1. God is truth and does not lie. Hopefully you see the truth here?
  2. The devil himself could be brought to reconciliation and be saved I believe I said could be....could...."Could" is used to express possibility or past ability as well as to make suggestions and requests. "Could" is also commonly used in conditional sentences as the conditional form of "can." I said nothing untrue here, God always has been and is still all powerful and can do as he pleases.
  3. but prophecy says that won't happen )) I agree with God when he tells us , through prophecy, that the devil would not be reconciled! I see no words twisted there, nothing I have said untrue there
  4. So what exactly is it that you disagree with?
  5. Wired, I ask you please, stop making false accusations and simply move on....we differ on who God is but the outcome of Satin is the same....he will not be reconciled!

Brother RJ ,
Is this simply a game that you like to play or what ?
You made a statement claiming (YOUR WORDS ((God is truth and does not lie. The devil himself could be brought to reconciliation and be saved, but prophecy says that won't happen ))

I made a reply to this.....it did not agree with this one thing you said- so you get upset and quyickly begin to fire back with insulting words and twisting what I actually said. Then you seem to change HOW you said things which is good for it allows others to understand but it is not wise to begin to acusse others of twisting things by changing what you said over and over until you believe it is really how you said it.

Look you said something one way and meant it another. Own up to it and let it go. Stop trying to prove I am rj and I am right....and you are wrong .......lol
Blessings RJ
JIM
 
@Thiscrosshurts,
What is this ? ((Seriously,more diligence in study and prayer is necessary for a more clear understanding of what Satan is.))
One can be lead by satan through thoughts - ( born again christian ) speaking doubt and fear and so forth but they are not satan. Jesus rebuked satan ...........
 
Brother RJ ,
Is this simply a game that you like to play or what ?
You made a statement claiming (YOUR WORDS ((God is truth and does not lie. The devil himself could be brought to reconciliation and be saved, but prophecy says that won't happen ))

I made a reply to this.....it did not agree with this one thing you said- so you get upset and quyickly begin to fire back with insulting words and twisting what I actually said. Then you seem to change HOW you said things which is good for it allows others to understand but it is not wise to begin to acusse others of twisting things by changing what you said over and over until you believe it is really how you said it.

Look you said something one way and meant it another. Own up to it and let it go. Stop trying to prove I am rj and I am right....and you are wrong .......lol
Blessings RJ
JIM
We come to a standstill. We have disagreed several times before and continue to do so. I will stand by but what I said whether you obviously don't agree or understand it. I am reluctantly done and see no other recourse. You won't here from me again!
 
We come to a standstill. We have disagreed several times before and continue to do so. I will stand by but what I said whether you obviously don't agree or understand it. I am reluctantly done and see no other recourse. You won't here from me again!
Thats fine Brother RJ,
Would it not have been much easier to simply say that what I was saying is this or that instead of right off the bat accusing that your words were twisted and you are right and not saying things that are not needed ?
Come on Brother it happens to every one, we have a thought but when we write it it does not always say exactly what we are thinking but to us it does because we know what wee are thinking.

Just because brother disagree does not make it a contest to prove who is right and who is wrong - what it should do is open the door for fellowship and sharring thoughts with scripture - not right from the start - I am offended and how dare you disagree with me type of attitude.

What you wrote and I replied to simply did not say or describe what you were thinking. No big deal, I brought it up and all you had to simply do is say - this is what I was trying to say...see how simple and easy it is..
Now Brother RJ you have a very wonderful and blessed day
God Bless
Jim
 
There are a lot of charges brought up against the God of the Bible; perhaps one of the most common is, “If God is supposed to be loving, how could He send people to Hell just because they didn’t worship Him?” It’s implied that it’s deeply unjust for God to judge sin at all, and even worse to do so by sending the sinners to a place of eternal punishment. However, these critics often profess they don’t believe in the God they are accusing, and also deny any objective standard of right and wrong anyway. Sometimes believers also struggle with this question, wondering how God could condemn someone who never heard of Jesus and so never had a chance to believe in Him, for example.

The question of Hell is not an appealing one even for people who affirm its existence. No one likes the idea of many people suffering judgment in the life to come. But the ‘Good News’ of the Gospel requires that there be ‘Bad News’—salvation in Jesus Christ would not bring glory to God if there were actually nothing to be saved from. So it’s important to be able to give an answer, even in the case of a subject that no one particularly likes contemplating.

Who goes to Hell?
When unbelieving critics talk about Hell, they sometimes speak like it will be full of innocent people (like themselves!). However, the Bible doesn’t indicate that innocent people will spend a single moment in Hell. Rather, Hell is God’s answer to the fundamental injustice of this life. There are many murderers, rapists, and other people who wreak havoc in the lives of others, who never experience judgment in this life. Everyone knows that it is wrong that these people never be brought to account for what they’ve done; something in the human heart demands justice. And Hell is God’s answer.

Randy Alcorn writes:

Without Hell, justice would never overtake the unrepentant tyrants responsible for murdering millions. Perpetrators of evil throughout the ages would get away with murder—and rape, and torture, and every evil.

Even if we may acknowledge Hell as a necessary and just punishment for evildoers, however, we rarely see ourselves as worthy of Hell. After all, we are not Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Bundy, or Dahmer.

God responds, “There is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one” (Romans 3:10–12).1

For the majority of people who are not guilty on the scale of these obviously (even to us) depraved people, it’s hard to understand that we deserve punishment, too. But most people have grievances against others—if someone stole from you, or hurt your children, or if you were a victim of something fundamentally unjust, you would want justice; your sense of what is right would demand that the person at fault pay a penalty for wronging you. Every time we break God’s law, that’s an affront to God, and He demands justice, just as we do imperfectly on a smaller scale. If you’ve ever said in your heart, “That person should pay for what he did!” then you fundamentally agree with the idea of Hell, because the doctrine of Hell says somebody is going to pay for every sin, eventually.

Sin: Rebellion against our loving Creator
God didn’t create people to go to Hell, and He didn’t create people to sin. In fact, the place He made for people originally was perfect. The Garden of Eden had everything Adam and Eve could ever want. It was safe and pleasant, God lovingly provided everything they needed, and they enjoyed a perfect relationship with the Creator. God gave them some simple commands (have children, tend the Garden, and don’t eat the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil), and their continuing perfect relationship with God only required them to obey. It was a position that we can only imagine today.

Even though Adam and Eve had everything they could ever possibly need, they disobeyed God and ate from the Tree that God had forbidden. Sin immediately broke the perfect fellowship that they had enjoyed with God. They realized that they were sinful, and they were ashamed and aware of their wrongdoing—as is shown by their initial attempts to cover themselves with fig leaves.

God is holy, meaning that He is completely separated from anything sinful. And as their Creator, He had the right to judge them when they disobeyed—in fact, His nature and His justice demanded that He respond when they rebelled against Him. He could have instituted the death penalty instantly, and He would have been perfectly just if He had done so. But God is also loving and merciful, so He did not put a premature end to the human race. Adam and Eve had spiritually died, meaning that their relationship to God was broken, but they would continue to physically live long enough to have children, who would inherit their propensity to sin.
Even after Adam and Eve sinned, God still loved them and provided for them. He agreed with them that their new sinful state required them to cover themselves; but the fig leaves were inadequate. He killed animals instead and made clothes out of their skins for Adam and Eve. This is the first place in Scripture where anything is killed—and for thousands of years, animals would continue to be killed in an attempt to cover over man’s sin, and to delay God’s wrath against humanity.

God was not willing to leave all of humanity to perish (cf. 2 Peter 3:9), so He promised that Eve would have a descendant who would defeat Satan (Genesis 3:15). This is called the ‘protevangelion’ because it’s the first hint of the Gospel in Scripture. The rest of the Old Testament can be characterized as God dealing with sin in various ways by judging it or putting off judgment, and getting ready for the descendant of Eve who would deal with the sin problem once and for all.

Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden into a world that was now largely hostile to them. And when Genesis tells us that Adam had a son (Seth) “in his image and likeness”, it leaves no ambiguity about whether the sinful state was in fact passed on from father to son.

What was the purpose of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?
Some say that a lot of trouble could have been avoided if God had just left the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil out of the Garden. But this misunderstands the vital function of the Tree. The other commands God gave Adam and Eve were fairly self-explanatory and had pleasant outcomes for them, but what was the purpose of the command not to eat from the Tree? It may seem surprising, but God had a loving purpose in putting the Tree in the Garden.

God created human beings to be in a relationship with Him. But a true loving relationship has to be freely given or chosen—one could program a robot to think it loves its programmer, but that would be meaningless because the robot didn’t have a choice. God wanted human beings to love Him freely, for who He is, not just for what He had given and provided for them. But that required the chance to not love Him, to rebel. The function of the Tree was to give Adam a chance to obey or rebel, and Adam chose to eat the fruit and to rebel against God.

There were two pivotal times in history when God freely gave and made a way that mankind could choose to have a relationship with Him, the Creation and the Incarnation. This also highlights why the battle of Creation is so important. The Fall from grace in the original Creation should help us understand our plight in this sin cursed world, and make it that much easier to recognize what God has done through Jesus. But if people reject the Bible’s account of origins, they will not understand humankind’s plight and the choices that God gave/gives us.


What is sin?
Simply put, sin is anything that doesn’t conform to a holy God’s standard of perfection. A sin can be something we do that is wrong, or something that we don’t do that we should do. God gets to set this standard because He is the Creator—and this standard is not arbitrary, but has its source in God’s own nature. We often make judgments about some sins being worse than others, but all sin is an offense against God because He is holy.

In addition, humans have a sin nature. This is a ‘bent’ toward sin. So while we might not sin at every possible opportunity, or to the greatest possible extent, everyone will sin, given the opportunity (Romans 3:23). In fact, the struggle against the human propensity to do things that we don’t want to (warring against the flesh), should be reminder that we are not perfect and are born sinners. That’s exactly why we need a Savior.

Jesus: the loving God incarnate
Scripture affirms that Jesus is the fulfillment of God’s promise to Eve. The only way that humanity could be saved is if there was a single person who was both fully God and fully man, who was related to every single person through Adam—because He could only redeem us if He was related to us, and so would be qualified to be our Kinsman-Redeemer (Isaiah 59:20). In addition, this person would have to live a perfect human life—avoiding every sin and perfectly obeying every command of God’s Law. And this is precisely who Jesus was and what He did.

It’s important to understand that this was the only way that humanity could be saved. We can’t save ourselves even by our best efforts; no other god or religion or philosophy can save us. If Jesus had not gone to the cross for us, and if He had not been raised on the third day, we would be completely and totally without hope.

When a person repents of their sin and trusts in Christ, God accepts Jesus’ sacrifice as payment for that person’s sins (Isaiah 53:6), and credits Jesus’ righteousness to that person (2 Corinthians 5:21). This brings the person into a right relationship with Him in a legal sense; they have an ‘innocent’ instead of a ‘guilty’ sentence (this is called justification). Furthermore, the Holy Spirit indwells that person and starts the process of actually making them righteous (this is called sanctification, and continues until the process is finished after death, and must not be confused with justification). The believer also has a host of privileges as part of being an adopted child of God.

Those who rebel against their loving Creator
So we see that because of Adam’s rebellion, all people are born with a sinful nature which is offensive to God. We’re not blameless, because we not only have the sinful nature, but we cooperate with it and enjoy sin. So we are culpable for the sinful things we do. We deserve to go to Hell, every single one of us, but God in His love provides a way out, so that anyone who repents will not be judged for their sin, but rather Jesus’ sacrifice pays for it. And He did this without us doing anything to merit it: “For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly” (Romans 5:6) and “God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).

But there are many who don’t repent. There are some who never hear the Gospel; there are others who hear it and reject it for any number of reasons. There are those who even descend into conscious hatred of God; they recognize Him and hate Him, much like Satan and the fallen angels. And many of these same ones complain that God is not loving because they chose Hell of their own accord.

If Jesus’ sacrifice is the only way to salvation, yet someone rejects Jesus, what is God supposed to do with that person? God cannot apply the salvation they’ve rejected (because remember God gave people the choice to reject Him in the Garden of Eden, and so He won’t override that when they actually do). When someone sins and rejects salvation, the only option left is to punish the rebellious creature.

Hell: a place for those who reject the loving God
It can be hard for the person who loves God to comprehend that there are people who hate God as much as we love Him. That there are people who hate Him so much that if they saw Him finally, they would not embrace Him and turn from their rebellion, but they would shake their fist all the more and damn themselves for eternity.

Just as through the Spirit, the believer is finally sanctified after death, something happens to the unbeliever at death that makes him unable to ever repent. He has chosen to hate God and he will hate God for all eternity. Jesus reminded us that some will not believe even if He rose from the dead. The unbeliever cannot inhabit Heaven, because he embodies everything that can never enter Heaven; and to be in the presence of God is not Heaven for him in any case, but the most exquisite torment. He has lost the ability to experience God as anything but terrifying.

For such a person, Hell is God giving him what he asked for all along—a place where His presence is not manifested as it is in this life. But this also means that there are none of the blessings and providence that even the unbeliever experiences in this life.

What about those who have never heard?
Many people ask how God can condemn people to Hell who have never heard of Him or who never had the chance to repent. This often involves the perception, however, that people are in a ‘neutral’ state and either choose for or against Him when they hear the Gospel. In reality, everyone is in a ‘default’ setting of rebellion against God and His law, and only the work of the Holy Spirit is able to change that. So the people who have never heard are already rebelling against what they know about God; and they will be judged proportionately to the revelation of God and His law they’ve had from nature. Romans 1:18–28 points out that some truth about God is obvious (in the heart) from creation, so that people are ‘without excuse’. Romans 2:14–16 says that people also have a conscience, and don’t even live up to their own standards, let alone God’s.

Of course, the importance of preaching the Gospel and doing missions work is highlighted by the ‘problem’ of those who have never heard. The answer is instead of questioning God’s justice (despite “Shall not the God of all the earth do right” Genesis 18:25), we should be spreading the message until everyone has heard.

The loving God became our Savior

So why would a loving God send someone to Hell? Because that person has chosen in such a way that God has no other choice. The existence and reality of eternal judgment for the person who does not repent is sobering, and no one really wants to contemplate it too deeply. But the person who goes to Hell must reject Christ, who died so that anyone who repents can be saved. So God is not to be blamed when an unrepentant, rebellious creature chooses a destructive path that leads to Hell. In fact, we all deserve hell due to our sin nature that separates us from God, but thank God for Jesus.

The good news is that anyone reading this article is still alive, and so if you haven’t repented of your sins and trusted in Jesus yet for salvation, there is still time to avoid the terrible fate that awaits those who rebel against the Creator, or to tell your unbelieving friends or family members about the Gospel. If you consider yourself a good person that doesn’t need salvation then just consider the following questions: Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen something, committed adultery, blasphemed etc? If you are truly honest with yourself you will find that you have failed to reach God’s standard for holiness and entrance into eternity with Him. And if you haven’t accepted Jesus as your Savior then you will have to represent yourself in God’s ‘courtroom’ when you die and answer for your sins. But for those who believe, “we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1). Read our Good News article for more information!
 
There are a lot of charges brought up against the God of the Bible; perhaps one of the most common is, “If God is supposed to be loving, how could He send people to Hell just because they didn’t worship Him?” It’s implied that it’s deeply unjust for God to judge sin at all, and even worse to do so by sending the sinners to a place of eternal punishment. However, these critics often profess they don’t believe in the God they are accusing, and also deny any objective standard of right and wrong anyway. Sometimes believers also struggle with this question, wondering how God could condemn someone who never heard of Jesus and so never had a chance to believe in Him, for example.

The question of Hell is not an appealing one even for people who affirm its existence. No one likes the idea of many people suffering judgment in the life to come. But the ‘Good News’ of the Gospel requires that there be ‘Bad News’—salvation in Jesus Christ would not bring glory to God if there were actually nothing to be saved from. So it’s important to be able to give an answer, even in the case of a subject that no one particularly likes contemplating.

Who goes to Hell?
When unbelieving critics talk about Hell, they sometimes speak like it will be full of innocent people (like themselves!). However, the Bible doesn’t indicate that innocent people will spend a single moment in Hell. Rather, Hell is God’s answer to the fundamental injustice of this life. There are many murderers, rapists, and other people who wreak havoc in the lives of others, who never experience judgment in this life. Everyone knows that it is wrong that these people never be brought to account for what they’ve done; something in the human heart demands justice. And Hell is God’s answer.

Randy Alcorn writes:

Without Hell, justice would never overtake the unrepentant tyrants responsible for murdering millions. Perpetrators of evil throughout the ages would get away with murder—and rape, and torture, and every evil.

Even if we may acknowledge Hell as a necessary and just punishment for evildoers, however, we rarely see ourselves as worthy of Hell. After all, we are not Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Bundy, or Dahmer.

God responds, “There is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one” (Romans 3:10–12).1

For the majority of people who are not guilty on the scale of these obviously (even to us) depraved people, it’s hard to understand that we deserve punishment, too. But most people have grievances against others—if someone stole from you, or hurt your children, or if you were a victim of something fundamentally unjust, you would want justice; your sense of what is right would demand that the person at fault pay a penalty for wronging you. Every time we break God’s law, that’s an affront to God, and He demands justice, just as we do imperfectly on a smaller scale. If you’ve ever said in your heart, “That person should pay for what he did!” then you fundamentally agree with the idea of Hell, because the doctrine of Hell says somebody is going to pay for every sin, eventually.

Sin: Rebellion against our loving Creator
God didn’t create people to go to Hell, and He didn’t create people to sin. In fact, the place He made for people originally was perfect. The Garden of Eden had everything Adam and Eve could ever want. It was safe and pleasant, God lovingly provided everything they needed, and they enjoyed a perfect relationship with the Creator. God gave them some simple commands (have children, tend the Garden, and don’t eat the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil), and their continuing perfect relationship with God only required them to obey. It was a position that we can only imagine today.

Even though Adam and Eve had everything they could ever possibly need, they disobeyed God and ate from the Tree that God had forbidden. Sin immediately broke the perfect fellowship that they had enjoyed with God. They realized that they were sinful, and they were ashamed and aware of their wrongdoing—as is shown by their initial attempts to cover themselves with fig leaves.

God is holy, meaning that He is completely separated from anything sinful. And as their Creator, He had the right to judge them when they disobeyed—in fact, His nature and His justice demanded that He respond when they rebelled against Him. He could have instituted the death penalty instantly, and He would have been perfectly just if He had done so. But God is also loving and merciful, so He did not put a premature end to the human race. Adam and Eve had spiritually died, meaning that their relationship to God was broken, but they would continue to physically live long enough to have children, who would inherit their propensity to sin.
Even after Adam and Eve sinned, God still loved them and provided for them. He agreed with them that their new sinful state required them to cover themselves; but the fig leaves were inadequate. He killed animals instead and made clothes out of their skins for Adam and Eve. This is the first place in Scripture where anything is killed—and for thousands of years, animals would continue to be killed in an attempt to cover over man’s sin, and to delay God’s wrath against humanity.

God was not willing to leave all of humanity to perish (cf. 2 Peter 3:9), so He promised that Eve would have a descendant who would defeat Satan (Genesis 3:15). This is called the ‘protevangelion’ because it’s the first hint of the Gospel in Scripture. The rest of the Old Testament can be characterized as God dealing with sin in various ways by judging it or putting off judgment, and getting ready for the descendant of Eve who would deal with the sin problem once and for all.

Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden into a world that was now largely hostile to them. And when Genesis tells us that Adam had a son (Seth) “in his image and likeness”, it leaves no ambiguity about whether the sinful state was in fact passed on from father to son.

What was the purpose of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?
Some say that a lot of trouble could have been avoided if God had just left the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil out of the Garden. But this misunderstands the vital function of the Tree. The other commands God gave Adam and Eve were fairly self-explanatory and had pleasant outcomes for them, but what was the purpose of the command not to eat from the Tree? It may seem surprising, but God had a loving purpose in putting the Tree in the Garden.

God created human beings to be in a relationship with Him. But a true loving relationship has to be freely given or chosen—one could program a robot to think it loves its programmer, but that would be meaningless because the robot didn’t have a choice. God wanted human beings to love Him freely, for who He is, not just for what He had given and provided for them. But that required the chance to not love Him, to rebel. The function of the Tree was to give Adam a chance to obey or rebel, and Adam chose to eat the fruit and to rebel against God.

There were two pivotal times in history when God freely gave and made a way that mankind could choose to have a relationship with Him, the Creation and the Incarnation. This also highlights why the battle of Creation is so important. The Fall from grace in the original Creation should help us understand our plight in this sin cursed world, and make it that much easier to recognize what God has done through Jesus. But if people reject the Bible’s account of origins, they will not understand humankind’s plight and the choices that God gave/gives us.


What is sin?
Simply put, sin is anything that doesn’t conform to a holy God’s standard of perfection. A sin can be something we do that is wrong, or something that we don’t do that we should do. God gets to set this standard because He is the Creator—and this standard is not arbitrary, but has its source in God’s own nature. We often make judgments about some sins being worse than others, but all sin is an offense against God because He is holy.

In addition, humans have a sin nature. This is a ‘bent’ toward sin. So while we might not sin at every possible opportunity, or to the greatest possible extent, everyone will sin, given the opportunity (Romans 3:23). In fact, the struggle against the human propensity to do things that we don’t want to (warring against the flesh), should be reminder that we are not perfect and are born sinners. That’s exactly why we need a Savior.

Jesus: the loving God incarnate
Scripture affirms that Jesus is the fulfillment of God’s promise to Eve. The only way that humanity could be saved is if there was a single person who was both fully God and fully man, who was related to every single person through Adam—because He could only redeem us if He was related to us, and so would be qualified to be our Kinsman-Redeemer (Isaiah 59:20). In addition, this person would have to live a perfect human life—avoiding every sin and perfectly obeying every command of God’s Law. And this is precisely who Jesus was and what He did.

It’s important to understand that this was the only way that humanity could be saved. We can’t save ourselves even by our best efforts; no other god or religion or philosophy can save us. If Jesus had not gone to the cross for us, and if He had not been raised on the third day, we would be completely and totally without hope.

When a person repents of their sin and trusts in Christ, God accepts Jesus’ sacrifice as payment for that person’s sins (Isaiah 53:6), and credits Jesus’ righteousness to that person (2 Corinthians 5:21). This brings the person into a right relationship with Him in a legal sense; they have an ‘innocent’ instead of a ‘guilty’ sentence (this is called justification). Furthermore, the Holy Spirit indwells that person and starts the process of actually making them righteous (this is called sanctification, and continues until the process is finished after death, and must not be confused with justification). The believer also has a host of privileges as part of being an adopted child of God.

Those who rebel against their loving Creator
So we see that because of Adam’s rebellion, all people are born with a sinful nature which is offensive to God. We’re not blameless, because we not only have the sinful nature, but we cooperate with it and enjoy sin. So we are culpable for the sinful things we do. We deserve to go to Hell, every single one of us, but God in His love provides a way out, so that anyone who repents will not be judged for their sin, but rather Jesus’ sacrifice pays for it. And He did this without us doing anything to merit it: “For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly” (Romans 5:6) and “God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).

But there are many who don’t repent. There are some who never hear the Gospel; there are others who hear it and reject it for any number of reasons. There are those who even descend into conscious hatred of God; they recognize Him and hate Him, much like Satan and the fallen angels. And many of these same ones complain that God is not loving because they chose Hell of their own accord.

If Jesus’ sacrifice is the only way to salvation, yet someone rejects Jesus, what is God supposed to do with that person? God cannot apply the salvation they’ve rejected (because remember God gave people the choice to reject Him in the Garden of Eden, and so He won’t override that when they actually do). When someone sins and rejects salvation, the only option left is to punish the rebellious creature.

Hell: a place for those who reject the loving God
It can be hard for the person who loves God to comprehend that there are people who hate God as much as we love Him. That there are people who hate Him so much that if they saw Him finally, they would not embrace Him and turn from their rebellion, but they would shake their fist all the more and damn themselves for eternity.

Just as through the Spirit, the believer is finally sanctified after death, something happens to the unbeliever at death that makes him unable to ever repent. He has chosen to hate God and he will hate God for all eternity. Jesus reminded us that some will not believe even if He rose from the dead. The unbeliever cannot inhabit Heaven, because he embodies everything that can never enter Heaven; and to be in the presence of God is not Heaven for him in any case, but the most exquisite torment. He has lost the ability to experience God as anything but terrifying.

For such a person, Hell is God giving him what he asked for all along—a place where His presence is not manifested as it is in this life. But this also means that there are none of the blessings and providence that even the unbeliever experiences in this life.

What about those who have never heard?
Many people ask how God can condemn people to Hell who have never heard of Him or who never had the chance to repent. This often involves the perception, however, that people are in a ‘neutral’ state and either choose for or against Him when they hear the Gospel. In reality, everyone is in a ‘default’ setting of rebellion against God and His law, and only the work of the Holy Spirit is able to change that. So the people who have never heard are already rebelling against what they know about God; and they will be judged proportionately to the revelation of God and His law they’ve had from nature. Romans 1:18–28 points out that some truth about God is obvious (in the heart) from creation, so that people are ‘without excuse’. Romans 2:14–16 says that people also have a conscience, and don’t even live up to their own standards, let alone God’s.

Of course, the importance of preaching the Gospel and doing missions work is highlighted by the ‘problem’ of those who have never heard. The answer is instead of questioning God’s justice (despite “Shall not the God of all the earth do right” Genesis 18:25), we should be spreading the message until everyone has heard.

The loving God became our Savior

So why would a loving God send someone to Hell? Because that person has chosen in such a way that God has no other choice. The existence and reality of eternal judgment for the person who does not repent is sobering, and no one really wants to contemplate it too deeply. But the person who goes to Hell must reject Christ, who died so that anyone who repents can be saved. So God is not to be blamed when an unrepentant, rebellious creature chooses a destructive path that leads to Hell. In fact, we all deserve hell due to our sin nature that separates us from God, but thank God for Jesus.

The good news is that anyone reading this article is still alive, and so if you haven’t repented of your sins and trusted in Jesus yet for salvation, there is still time to avoid the terrible fate that awaits those who rebel against the Creator, or to tell your unbelieving friends or family members about the Gospel. If you consider yourself a good person that doesn’t need salvation then just consider the following questions: Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen something, committed adultery, blasphemed etc? If you are truly honest with yourself you will find that you have failed to reach God’s standard for holiness and entrance into eternity with Him. And if you haven’t accepted Jesus as your Savior then you will have to represent yourself in God’s ‘courtroom’ when you die and answer for your sins. But for those who believe, “we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1). Read our Good News article for more information!

Greetings Taylor,
Thank you for the time you put into this reply. It actually says something. ; )
Many people will be amazed when they see some of the people who they wrote off as hell bound sitting on the Fathers lap.
The meanest woman raping serial killing man does not go to hell for his raping and killing- nope just for rejecting Christ so if they ask for forgiveness and then die 3 seconds later - well they will be there too. This took me some time to get usded to or rather understand but God is a Just judge and who so ever calls out - shall be saved.

Taylor thank you again for this post.
God Bless youi Brother
Jim
 
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