The Rapture

[saginon]

And 'we' are supposed to believe what You're saying instead?! Just because You are dead set Against a pre-trib rapture, etc. doesn't mean it's wrong. You're suggesting that You know more / are more accurate than 'most Christians'. Nope

I don't think I know more than anybody, I just know better than to believe in pre-trib! I do believe that pre-trib is the most fabricated and contradictory belief that has ever entered the church. Any doctrine that is full of contradictions like pre-trib is always false.

Show me ONE verse that says Jesus returns BEFORE the tribulation. If the rapture IS pre-trib then surely there would be at least ONE verse that shows his return BEFORE the tribulation. Can you quote one.

 

[saginon]

Yes the gathering is in the end. The rapture is taking the restrainer away.

I keep asking - THE END OF WHAT! - Tribulation? The Age? The end of WHAT? If you say the pre-trib gathering is the end - How can the gathering be the END when the consummation of the age is 7 years later?

 

[newname]

Yeah I was going to mention his name too but there are too many to mention. I read 'the late great planet earth' too. Is that the one you're talking about?

Yes. I did get an A for my Dutch exam thanks to him. We had to write an essay about something and I just made it from his book. The atheist teacher thought it was very interesting. Guess he never read such books.

 

[newname]

I keep asking - THE END OF WHAT! - Tribulation? The Age? The end of WHAT? If you say the pre-trib gathering is the end - How can the gathering be the END when the consummation of the age is 7 years later?

The pre trib gathering is the beginning. Then starts the end. Ac, trib. At the end of the trib is the gathering and Jesus comes back. Pre trib is catching away, not Jesus coming back, we go to Him.

 

[saginon]

The pre trib gathering is the beginning. Then starts the end. Ac, trib. At the end of the trib is the gathering and Jesus comes back. Pre trib is catching away, not Jesus coming back, we go to Him.

You've lost me. First you say, "The pre trib gathering is the beginning," Then you say, "the end of the trib is the gathering."
Maybe you can do a better job of explaining yourself.

 

[newname]

You've lost me. First you say, "The pre trib gathering is the beginning," Then you say, "the end of the trib is the gathering."
Maybe you can do a better job of explaining yourself.

You called it a gathering. The rapture is in the beginning. That's the faithful church Philadelphia. Then comes the ac and the trib and then the gathering and Jesus comes back.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His[d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[newname]

Isaiah 26


Your dead shall live;
Together with [k]my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
Take Refuge from the Coming Judgment
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her[l]blood,
And will no more cover her slain.

 

[saginon]

You called it a gathering. The rapture is in the beginning. That's the faithful church Philadelphia. Then comes the ac and the trib and then the gathering and Jesus comes back.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His[d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I don't think I'm the one that's confused. I'm going to let this go for a while. I use to be like that many moons ago when I smoked weed.

 

[saginon]

Isaiah 26


Your dead shall live;
Together with [k]my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
Take Refuge from the Coming Judgment
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her[l]blood,
And will no more cover her slain.

That one throws a wrench into pre-trib!

 

[newname]

Maybe it's prewrath.

The mystery of the rapture of Yeshua’s bride » Kehila News Israel

Richard writes, "Could this coming winter once again be the time for the Liberation of Jerusalem (and Israel), but this time from Islam?"

kehilanews.allisrael.com

Or pretrib. I give up. We'll see it some day.

3 reasons Revelation 12:5 describes the pre-tribulational rapture - The Cripplegate

Proponents of the pre-tribulational rapture usually defend their view from John 14:3, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, and Revelation 3:10. But often left out of the typical pre-triublation defense is the passage that perhaps started it all—Revelation 12:1-6. While it is an...

thecripplegate.com

 

[newname]

I don't think I'm the one that's confused. I'm going to let this go for a while. I use to be like that many moons ago when I smoked weed.

Lol

 

[saginon]

Maybe it's prewrath.

The mystery of the rapture of Yeshua’s bride » Kehila News Israel

Richard writes, "Could this coming winter once again be the time for the Liberation of Jerusalem (and Israel), but this time from Islam?"

kehilanews.allisrael.com

It's post because the harpazo and the Parousia happen in the same cluster of verses. There's NOT a 7 or 3 1/2 year gap between verse 15 and verse 17...

1 Thes. 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice: Alive and remain unto the PAROUSIA!

Parousia - Christ presence on earth - the coming, arrival, advent -

the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God

It really isn't that difficult to figure out, not to mention Jesus says the gathering happens AFTER the tribulation!

 

[Sue D.]

I don't think I'm the one that's confused. I'm going to let this go for a while. I use to be like that many moons ago when I smoked weed.

Well -- THAT explains a lot -- you used to smoke Weed.


(The book -- The Late Great Planet Earth -- I've got a copy -- very interesting.)

 

[saginon]

Well -- THAT explains a lot -- you used to smoke Weed. :smile: :smile:


(The book -- The Late Great Planet Earth -- I've got a copy -- very interesting.)

Doesn't explain anything. There's probably more people here on the forum who smoke or have smoked weed than you think. I believe drinking is far worse. Every state around NH now has legalized pot, we just have medicinal pot. It's just a matter of time before NH legalizes it too.

I had a pile of paper back books about the end times and threw them all in the dump including the late great planet earth. I just don't believe very much of what I read anymore. I don't even read books by Shoebat or Joel Rosenberg. I read what my dad writes and that's about it. He's my mentor.

 

[John Prewett]

John 17:15
I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one

 

[Beresheet]

There will be an actual living being know as anti christ come to earth claiming to be Jesus Christ. The super natural entity that plays this roll of anti christ is Satan Himself. You must realize that this spiritual war is not really against us and Satan but against God and Satan. Satan just uses us to get back at God.

The Archangel Michael has Satan in chains in heaven at the moment but God will soon give Michael the order to release him on earth. There are chiseled out super intelligent beings beginning to make their appearance here on earth. They are not flesh beings but look just like flesh man but more youthful and chiseled out. They are very intelligent and the ones that come to earth on Satan’s behalf will try and convince everyone that the first super natural entity that shows up on earth first is the real Jesus Christ.

Paul made it real simple for us to know when the true Christ returns to earth. 1 Cor 15:52 And it’s just this simple. Upon Christ’s return everyone who is still alive in these flesh bodies will be changed into a spiritual body immediately on His arrival at the Seventh Trump. If you hear that Christ is here on earth and you can pinch yourself and you pinch flesh, the True CHRIST has not made it to earth yet. Shortly after Christ’s return to earth the 1000 year period of teaching by qualified teaches, known as the millennium, will begin.

Back to anti christ. The Bible only talks of three entities that have supernatural powers of their own. That is God Almighty, Jesus Christ, and Satan. There were men in the Bible that willed magical power but they are claimed God preformed the miracle through them. Satan as anti christ will show forth signs and wonders to deceive man into thinking he is Christ. For those who are deceived into thinking that anti christ was the true Christ, it’s enrollment time for them in that 1000 year millennium boot camp to be taught for a thousand years, to be tested again at the end of the millennium.

Satan/anti christ is not of any race. He was never born of woman. But this dude is very handsome and intelligent. He will awe the masses with his good looks and charisma.

Everyone will go through the tribulation of anti christ. Nobody’s going nowhere. Christ is coming here. God knew that there would be a rapture doctrine being taught in the last days, that’s why God taught against it. Ezekiel 13:18-20 God stating He was against those who teach His people to fly to save their soul or teach a different way to salvation. There will be a body change, from flesh to that finer body known the spiritual body. I don’t know one verse that says people will fly away to be with Christ.

NOTICE: Alive and remain unto the PAROUSIS.

 

[newname]

It's post because the harpazo and the Parousia happen in the same cluster of verses. There's NOT a 7 or 3 1/2 year gap between verse 15 and verse 17...

1 Thes. 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice: Alive and remain unto the PAROUSIA!

Parousia - Christ presence on earth - the coming, arrival, advent -

the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God

It really isn't that difficult to figure out, not to mention Jesus says the gathering happens AFTER the tribulation!

Post wrath means the church gets His wrath. That's impossible for God to poor out His wrath when His followers are on earth. Then at least you must believe He transports us like Philip.
And all the texts that we have to watch then make no sense. Then it should be: watch cause you don't know when the antichrist comes and you have to be ready to not fall for him.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Nero is too ugly.
I just believe that dream from Ken Peters.

The man that I saw on the television, the man that could do signs and wonders and fix all the problems, I will never forget his face. As long as I live I will never forget his face. His face was almost supernatural in appearance. He was almost too perfect. For lack of better terms, he was the most handsome man I had ever seen. This man had everything going together for him, everything. He had kind of a chiseled look about his face. And everything about his appearance was almost perfect. When he spoke, there was a very strange quality about him.

WARNING my friend

BEWARE of television evangelists, beware of those who do not preach the 'Whole Truth' form the Word of God.

MANY will come in My Name Jesus said, deceiving many.

It is hard when you accept Jesus and thirst for the Truth, TV evangelists get the audience, but you must be cautious, Jesus says wise as serpents and harmless as doves, Trust in the Lord and The Truth in The Word, you need good down to earth teaching not celebrity preaching. That could be why the Lord has guided you here my friend, but note there are some subjects that are not clear, the timing of the Rapture being one, there are some who are adamant it is Post Trib, they do not agree with Pre-Trib, that is their choice, just be clear, it doesn't matter one iota which it is or even whether it is Mid-Trib, it will happen in the blinking of an eye, we cannot control it, we just have to be ready and watching.

Bless you.

 

[John Prewett]

Are you saying Christ returned back around AD70?

Christ did all that Paul predicted He would do back around AD70. OUR end of era scenario was not revealed by Paul nor by Jesus in Matt 24. OUR end of era scenario is revealed by Revelation 13 - 20:4.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Post wrath means the church gets His wrath. That's impossible for God to poor out His wrath when His followers are on earth. Then at least you must believe He transports us like Philip.
And all the texts that we have to watch then make no sense. Then it should be: watch cause you don't know when the antichrist comes and you have to be ready to not fall for him.

Watch and be ready because... you do not know when Christ will come for His Church.

The anti-christ will not be known until the Great Tribulation period.

Bless you