The Rapture

[Brother-Paul]

I Do believe that I've stated that born-again believers Will endure hardships, tribulations all during their Christian lives. We're not spared any of that in the here and now. I'm referring to the 7 yr tribulation time that is in the future. Those 7 yrs are specifically for unbelieving Jews to be able to accept Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah. That's who God's wrath is for.

Greetings Sue D.

I cannot agree the 7 year Tribulation is just for the Jews. yes a remnant will be saved, it is for all Jews and Gentiles who have not accepted Jesus, to give them chance to accept Him. God's Wrath is for all who have not accepted Christ as Saviour, regardless of age, sex or nationality or Religion.
(Religion being man reaching out to God, not True Christianity which is God reaching out to man)

Bless you

 

[Brother-Paul]

With posttrib ppl are raptured up and immediately escorted down to meet Him in the air 5 mins. Hi! Hurry up and go back.
They get wrath they're not appointed for.
Those are the main reasons it makes no sense to me.
We have to be ready and expect Him to come, so with pretrib when you get lazy, you stump yourself. Wake up! Go pray that you will be worthy to escape.
With posttrib, if you have kids, you must not prepare for Jesus, but for antichrist. Quite antisocial if you don't hamster insane much food for your kids, you and the neighbours. You can best go to Alaska and dig a hole in the ice and throw away all internet, devices and any proof of your existance. One guy on an end time forum seriously asked me if I was digging a hole already. I thought it was a joke.

Don't look back, in the twinkling of an eye it would be hard to look back but the warning is there for us all..

Probably the second shortest verse in Scripture: that is, the words of Jesus in Luke 17:32 — “Remember Lot’s wife.”

Luke 17:26-37 (NKJV)
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
31 In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. (Does not refer to homosexuality - do NOT look back)
35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left.
36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left."
37 And they answered and said to Him, "Where, Lord?" So He said to them, "Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together."

Watch, pray and be ready :smile:

but don't look back

 

[Curtis]

In the "rapture" the only people who see the Lord are those who are looking for him!
the Latin word “rapturo” (rapture) means “caught up“ Some of the oldest manuscripts were written in "Latin" The Greek word for "rapturo" (rapture) = "Harpazo"

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many, and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


When Jesus returns to execute justice at the end of the great tribulation, "everyone" will see him!

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo / rapturo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[saginon]

@saginon -- maybe you Should own a TV and be aware of what's going on in the world and here at home. People have been beheaded here in this country.

TV is full of junk, especially liberal junk. I don't need one. I'm aware of what's going on in the world through the internet and radio. My roommate has one, I just don't watch much other than the news.

You say that you are absolutely sure of the raptures' timing. Scripture says that No man knows exactly for sure when it will take place. But there Is Scripture giving clues.

I never said I'm absolutely sure of the raptures timing in relation to dates. You're fabricating. All I know is the scriptures proclaim it's after the tribulation. Jesus and Paul said so, and I believe them. You are sure it's pre-trib, I'm convinced it's post trib. No man know the day or hour - but - in post-trib, we can know the season, that's why we have been given signs. In pre-trib, there are no signs indicating the season.

The main importance is our personal salvation. Is a person ready Now? Because the Church Can be raptured up and out any pretty much Any time.

Not true. Jesus said the gathering happens after the tribulation! It's crazy to say the rapture can happen at any moment.
Can you even quote ONE verse that clearly states the rapture occurs BEFORE the tribulation? You can't because they don't exist! I can quote 2 that clearly show it occurs after the tribulation!

As to your next post -- The 7 yrs of tribulation is Not to help purify the church. Read Revelation 7

It's not? Why is the church called the "bride of Christ?" September 11, 2001 helped people turn to God and get closer to God. Tribulation will do the same. Paul and James tell us about purification.

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

It lists all the 12,000 Jews from every tribe = 144,000 Jews to go out evangelizing vs 9 "a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes , people, and tongues vs 14 "these are the ones who come out of the great tribulation....." over the years -- the Jewish people have absorbed into other people groups -- so there will be a lot of mixed-cultured people. But the Jews who continue to reject Christ as their Messiah will be given another chance.

All nations, tribes , people, and tongues refers to anyone - not just Jews! In no way does Revelation 7 suggest the tribulation is only to get Jews to accept Christ!

 

[saginon]

@saginon -- you said that your Dad is your only mentor -- who's That. Maybe God's Word should be your mentor.

You really know how to twist things around. God's Word isn't that difficult to figure out. Since you seem to be having trouble figuring it out, maybe you should use some of the Greek and Hebrew resources we have available, they would help remove you from your prophecy expert mentors who have deceived you into believing pre-trib. Dear ol' dad doesn't have a bias like you do. He has one of the best hermeneutics I've ever seen. Something you know nothing about.

 

[saginon]

Maybe it's prewrath.

The mystery of the rapture of Yeshua’s bride » Kehila News Israel

Richard writes, "Could this coming winter once again be the time for the Liberation of Jerusalem (and Israel), but this time from Islam?"

kehilanews.allisrael.com

Or pretrib. I give up. We'll see it some day.

3 reasons Revelation 12:5 describes the pre-tribulational rapture - The Cripplegate

Proponents of the pre-tribulational rapture usually defend their view from John 14:3, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, and Revelation 3:10. But often left out of the typical pre-triublation defense is the passage that perhaps started it all—Revelation 12:1-6. While it is an...

thecripplegate.com

I looked at the page and find his reasoning incredibly foolish and fabricated. I've seen that one before and it's all conjured up because the words 'caught up' are there. Pre-tribbers can't agree where the thing happens! It's crazy to say the 'pre-trib' rapture happens in Revelation 12, and I mean crazy!

 

[Beresheet]

Going through the tribulation of anti christ will not be all that tough if one has acquired the knowledge and wisdom of , THE SEAL OF GOD. God has given anti christ strict orders not to touch any of His children that have acquired the knowledge and wisdom. Rev 9:4. God commanded that anti christ could only torment only those men which have not the seal of God in the foreheads/minds. But at best he could only torment them for five months.

Anti christ has been given strict orders from God not to kill anyone. In fact that’s what brings the wrath of God down on anti christ when he has the two witnesses killed in the streets. When you see this event of the two witnesses slain in the streets, I think it’s either two and one half or three and one half days later, the true Christ returns to earth.

 

[Beresheet]

Saginon, this is getting off the subject a bit but it all ties in. Wish there was a place on this site one could talk about anything, like what I’m doing without getting off message with the thread. What do you know about the time when, Job 1:6. Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. This event of Gods children called the sons of God, coming to present themselves in front of God and Satan came and mingled among the sons of God. I guess there was a time when Gods children/sons of God came before God and He would speak to them and Satan was allowed to come among them. Might mention that these sons of God were not in flesh bodies, but in spiritual bodies at this time. Flesh had not made it on the scene yet.

Some time later, Satan was able to deceive one third of Gods children called the sons of God, to begin to worship and follow him. Satan began thinking he wanted to take God’s place and attempted a overthrow of Gods authority. You know how the story goes, in that another one third of Gods children/sons of God we’re so biblically illiterate that they didn’t know who to follow, God or Satan. Then there was that one third of the sons of God that were faithful to God and fought long side Him to put Satan back in his place. This one third that stayed with the Father to help beat back Satan’s attempted overthrow are known or called the Elect in this flesh realm of life we are in now. God found them justified, meaning that they overcame at that time. They earned the right to be called the Elect.

Once God had things back in order from the attempted over throw, He removed all the sons of God of the earth. He began sitting up His plan of salvation to win back as many of his children/sons of God, as He could, from Satan. All these events took place before the book of Genesis was written and before God had the sons of God birthed back on earth through the womb of woman, in a flesh bodies. Thus God replenishing the earth, Genesis 1:3 forward.

 

[John Prewett]

What you're saying is that Mathew 24 is fulfilled? The consummation of the age is not the end of the age we are currently in? Jesus clearly revealed our end of era scenario. The entirety of chapter 24 was in response to the disciples question "What will be the sign of thy return/coming and the consummation of the age.
Are you a Preterist?

The NT reveals TWO "end times."

The "end time" of the era of ancient Israel that Paul (and Jesus in Matt 14) predicted came around 2000 years ago.

AND

OUR "end time" era (that Paul knew nothing of) is revealed in the God-sent Revelation. Revelation 13 - 20:4 reveals soul saving blessing conveying information about OUR end of era scenario found nowhere else.

 

[John Prewett]

I read that a lot, that it's a false teaching and oh so dangerous escapism.
I guess they want us to tell our kids as toddlers that they have to prepare for the guillotine.
Hi cuty! Jesus loves you! Do you want to ask Him to come in your little heart?
Yes! Oh okay, btw your head goes off and don't lazy around w your barbie dolls.
Prepare for that! Hey why have the kids cops taken my kids away?

Your above is Satanic mockery of the truth.

At this point in time, few Christians are teaching "toddlers" anything about the Revelation.
And "toddler" age may indeed be a bit young to begin trying to digest the Revelation.
Learning the basics from the 4 gospels is generally sufficient Christian education for a "toddler."

 

[newname]

I was wondering who these ppl are

Your above is Satanic mockery of the truth.

At this point in time, few Christians are teaching "toddlers" anything about the Revelation.
And "toddler" age may indeed be a bit young to begin trying to digest the Revelation.
Learning the basics from the 4 gospels is generally sufficient Christian education for a "toddler."

Then when are you gonna tell em that? When they're 12? My kids knew very young Jesus was coming back. A toddler on youtube saw Jesus and said Abba up!
People fall from their faith because of all the doom teaching.
Jesus gives small children dreams about the rapture.
Those 6 y o Chinese beggar kids saw the trib and antichrist.
Young ones shall get visions and old ones dreams.

In the Hernhutter revival there were babies who couldn't talk normally, who said: Get ready! Jesus is coming!
I easier trust a kid or a baby than someone who studied Greek. Ken Peters wasn't even a christian yet when he saw what's coming. He got saved after he got the dream. Yet he gets mocked and is called a dreamer, like Joseph. Pretrib gets mocked by posttrib. Believe whatever you want, but I'm not gonna prepare to get left behind.

 

[John Prewett]

I was wondering who these ppl are

Then when are you gonna tell em that? When they're 12?
My kids knew very young Jesus was coming back. A toddler on you tube saw Jesus and said Abba up!
People fall from their faith because of all the doom teaching.
Jesus gives small children dreams about the rapture.
Those 6 y o Chinese beggar kids saw the trib and antichrist.
Young ones shall get visions and old ones dreams.

Jesus is not giving anyone dreams about the pre-trib rapture ... because pre-trib rapture teaching is a lie. A major false prophecy of our age.

The saved of our era will be BEHEADED.
The real day of "rapture" will be the day the blade falls and the saved comes out of their body into full unity with Jesus and all the other saved.

Revelation 20:4
" I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and the authority to judge was given to them.
And I saw the souls of those who had been BEHEADED
for their witness of Jesus and for the word of God.
They had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

For REAL Christians, the beheading is not a problem. Compared to what Jesus went through (and many martyrs down through the ages) .... beheading is a walk in the park
And IMMEDIATELY after the brief beheading, the saint is united with Jesus and all the saved and is on the way to the rendezvous with Jesus at the sea of glass as per Rev 15.

 

[newname]

Jesus is not giving anyone dreams about the pre-trib rapture ... because pre-trib rapture teaching is a lie. A major false prophecy of our age.

The saved of our era will be BEHEADED.
The real day of "rapture" will be the day the blade falls and the saved comes out of their body into full unity with Jesus and all the other saved.

Revelation 20:4
" I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and the authority to judge was given to them.
And I saw the souls of those who had been BEHEADED
for their witness of Jesus and for the word of God.
They had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

For REAL Christians, the beheading is not a problem. Compared to what Jesus went through (and many martyrs down through the ages) .... beheading is a walk in the park
And IMMEDIATELY after the brief beheading, the saint is united with Jesus and all the saved and is on the way to the rendezvous with Jesus at the sea of glass as per Rev 15.

There will be ppl beheaded. It already happens. But Paul says we will not all die. So that makes no sense to say everyone will go through that.
Those are either taken away like Philip or raptured.
It's called the time of Jacob's trouble. Jacob is the name Israel had before he wrestled with God and changed.
It says in the last days He will give dreams and visions. I wonder if anyone ever had a dream about posttrib.

 

[newname]

Another thing that post-tribs leave out or can’t explain is the Wedding Supper of the Lamb. Revelation 19 indicates that the Wedding Supper will conclude, in heaven, before Armageddon takes place on earth. Since post-tribulationists think everything happens at once, they can’t explain when the Wedding Supper takes place and how long it lasts. It can’t be ‘instantaneous’. How much fun would that be? Therefore, the Wedding Supper fits ‘no’ post-trib timeline. Yet, it’s forbidden to subtract from Revelation. Hum?

Daniel 11: God's Master Plan ... Unsealed

A unique, simple, and logical explanation of Daniel 11, highlighting events preceding the rapture, the seals, and how everything fits together.

daniel11truth.com

TEST NO.1: Are there any Scriptures which speak of a resurrection of Church-age saints, both living and dead, when Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation?

The answer is, No. There is a resurrection of saints at the Second Coming (Revelation 20:4) but it is only for martyrs at the hands of Antichrist during the 7- years of Great Tribulation. It may be argued that Antichrist and his followers will receive their resurrection bodies at that time and will be “cast alive into a lake of fire” according to Revelation 19:20; Daniel 12:2; and Matthew 25:41, however, there is a total absence of any Scripture which states that there will be any resurrection of living saints when Christ returns. On the contrary, the living saints, both Jews and Gentiles, who survive the Tribulation, continue with natural bodies into the millennial kingdom.

Because IF there was a post-Tribulation Rapture every saved person on earth would have a resurrection body when Christ returned, and there would not be anyone left on earth for the millennial kingdom. However, Zechariah says that “everyone that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles” (Zechariah 14:16).

IF all the saved are raptured when Christ returns to reign it would be impossible for babies to be born in the millennial kingdom because Jesus said that “in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage” (Matthew 22:30). Babies will be born, however, because at the end of the 1,000 years some unsaved will be deceived and rebel against Christ (Revelation 20:7-9). Resurrected saints could not have children, or be deceived.

What's wrong with the post-tribulation rapture theory? - The Herald of Hope

www.heraldofhope.org.au

 

[saginon]

Saginon, this is getting off the subject a bit but it all ties in. Wish there was a place on this site one could talk about anything, like what I’m doing without getting off message with the thread. What do you know about the time when, Job 1:6. Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. This event of Gods children called the sons of God, coming to present themselves in front of God and Satan came and mingled among the sons of God. I guess there was a time when Gods children/sons of God came before God and He would speak to them and Satan was allowed to come among them. Might mention that these sons of God were not in flesh bodies, but in spiritual bodies at this time. Flesh had not made it on the scene yet.

Some time later, Satan was able to deceive one third of Gods children called the sons of God, to begin to worship and follow him. Satan began thinking he wanted to take God’s place and attempted a overthrow of Gods authority. You know how the story goes, in that another one third of Gods children/sons of God we’re so biblically illiterate that they didn’t know who to follow, God or Satan. Then there was that one third of the sons of God that were faithful to God and fought long side Him to put Satan back in his place. This one third that stayed with the Father to help beat back Satan’s attempted overthrow are known or called the Elect in this flesh realm of life we are in now. God found them justified, meaning that they overcame at that time. They earned the right to be called the Elect.

Once God had things back in order from the attempted over throw, He removed all the sons of God of the earth. He began sitting up His plan of salvation to win back as many of his children/sons of God, as He could, from Satan. All these events took place before the book of Genesis was written and before God had the sons of God birthed back on earth through the womb of woman, in a flesh bodies. Thus God replenishing the earth, Genesis 1:3 forward.

I'll respond when I find the page I have on the subject and research this a bit more, I'm pretty sure the page I do have isn't in depth or thorough. I still haven't complied a page I said I would - I think about the anti-Christ. Maybe it would be best for you or I to start a thread on the 'sons of God.' I work at home most of the time in the garage so I'm in and out all day.

It almost seems - like one guys said, the fallen son's of God are still allowed in heaven, and the ones in the abyss are occasionally let loose like the locust of Revelation 9 on 'work release.'

See you around the forum.

 

[saginon]

The NT reveals TWO "end times."

The "end time" of the era of ancient Israel that Paul (and Jesus in Matt 14) predicted came around 2000 years ago.

AND

OUR "end time" era (that Paul knew nothing of) is revealed in the God-sent Revelation. Revelation 13 - 20:4 reveals soul saving blessing conveying information about OUR end of era scenario found nowhere else.

Two end-times?

So the story of the beheading of John the Baptist, the multiplying of the fish and loaves, and Jesus and Peter walking on water is the end-time era of Ancient Israel?

I think I'll just back out of this one.

 

[John Prewett]

Two end-times?
So the story of the beheading of John the Baptist, the multiplying of the fish and loaves, and Jesus and Peter walking on water is the end-time era of Ancient Israel?

No.

I think I'll just back out of this one.

Yes, best you do that. Since you (like 'new name') presently have nothing of value to contribute.

The "end time" that Paul predicted IS NOT SAME as the "end time" revealed in Revelation 13->forward.

 

[saginon]

No.



Yes, best you do that. Since you (like 'new name') presently have nothing of value to contribute.

The "end time" that Paul predicted IS NOT SAME as the "end time" revealed in Revelation 13->forward.

Another one who builds himself up by responding with snide and derogatory remarks.

Yep, see you later big guy!

 

[Sue D.]

You really know how to twist things around. God's Word isn't that difficult to figure out. Since you seem to be having trouble figuring it out, maybe you should use some of the Greek and Hebrew resources we have available, they would help remove you from your prophecy expert mentors who have deceived you into believing pre-trib. Dear ol' dad doesn't have a bias like you do. He has one of the best hermeneutics I've ever seen. Something you know nothing about.

Good morning -- I'm not having trouble figuring out God's Word -- and I happen to have a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance / Greek and Hebrew words, [HASH=3399]#'s[/HASH] / definitions, etc..

Maybe you should learn to discuss Nicely and not be throwing your sticks and stones at posters, like myself, who are pre-trib position believers. My 'bias' simply comes from having gone through a Precept's study of book of Revelation some years ago. The teacher took part of that two-year study and went through each of the views of when the rapture will take place, Scriptures and time-line graphs so that 'we' could compare each of the views. Decide for ourselves which lines up with Scripture the best. After studying That -- the main conclusion was that the Pre-trib view fits Scripture the best.

And I also grew up in a wonderful Bible-teaching church -- it was a Huge church -- grew up with KJV and that was the standing that was 'assumed'. And my late husband earned an M.A. in theology.

So -- let's not be assuming what other posters do or do not know about simply because they don't agree with you. Okay?! Thank you.

 

[John Prewett]

Another one who builds himself up by responding with snide and derogatory remarks.

Yep, see you later big guy!

You took the first shot.