The Trinity - True or False

[RJ]

I'm still not following your line of reasoning.
In a previous thread you quoted: Mark 3:29 and Luke 12:10 and for me this is what they say:
The unpardonable sin is the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus Christ said that you can blasphemy him but you can't blasphemy the Holy Spirit.
The Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is actually just the rejection of Christ as Savior.
If you recieve Christ, recieve God's grace through faith, you receive the Holy Spirit to live inside you.
If you ultimately reject Christ as your personal savior, you do not recieve the Holy Spirit and God refers this to the act of "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit", the denial of Christ.
That is why it is called the only unpardonable sin....unbelief is the only sin that God does not forgive!
No one comes unto the Father unless it is through jesus Christ!

 

[spirit1st]

Receiving the HOLY GHOST is Automatic once we fully accept the Gospel of JESUS CHRIST and HIm into our Hearts as LORD!
You understand Many each day who are GODs do not hear the Holy Ghost and many hearing Him , Do not obey him!

That is not blasphemy!

Blasphemy is saying evil things about HIm or saying a person who is Born of God has a devil in them!

our understanding lacks lots !That is why we need to ask Him lots !
He will reveal truth to us and give us the correct understanding!

Most scriptures are pretty clear!
Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mar 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

When in Fact He had the HOLY SPIRIT!
Anyone who has the Holy Spirit dwelling in them ?Cannot have a devil dwelling in them!
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
meaning our Spirit is sin free and there for the Holy Spirit can dwell with our spirit!

THIS means we are Never to say ANYTHING against te Holy Ghost!
Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Our Words are important!
The Holy ghost wants NO glory He wants us to give All the Glory and Honor to our LORD JESUS CHRIST!

 

[RJ]

Ok my friend, as you wish.
But for me the devil has nothing to do with this, do you know that he has been defeated? Once you are indwelt with Christ (The Holy Spirit), the devil is now under your feet! Praise be to God!

For me Luke 12:10, Mark 3:29 says that Jesus died for ALL sins accept one: And that one sin is the denial and rejection of the complete Gospel (The Death, Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ). Meaning that he died for our sins, was buried and was resurrected which gives us his eternal life through His Holy Spirit.

St Paul in 1 COR chapter 15 says it best; (paraphrase): It is the resurrection that gives us life. If we just stop at the cross and don't recieve Christ through His resurrected Spirit, Paul says that we are to be pitied among all men. Rejecting this is the only sin that is not already forgiven and the only sin that will keep you seperated from God for eternity!

And I will respectfully, just leave it at that!

 

[spirit1st]

He died for all our sins! But our flesh can still suffer for sin!
There is still in our flesh a price to pay for our actions!
The grave yards are full of people who died before they should have !Only because of sin in there loves !
satan causes even the christain many problems

1Th 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

We are still battling him daily! he is trying everything to cause us problems!

 

[sister]

Truth

Yes the trinity is truth,if you doubt the trinity then you doubt Gods Word!God was the first,who sent his son Jesus,who sent the Holy Spirit!3 in 1.We are all Gods creation but not until you ask Jesus into your heart and life are you accepted into the Fathers family,then Jesus and the Holy Spirit come into you,thats the new birth!Again 3 in 1!God is not a God thats lies,and Jesus is not the son of God who would decieve us,he speaks only Truth and wisdom that comes from his Father and the Holy Spirit!So,yes the trinity is Real!God cannot lie!His Word reveals it to us over and over!

 

[Trisha]

I believe there are three in one God and that isn't likely to change and also Im not likely to change the "Jesus Only" church. If whole churches can't agree, Im not likely to change that. I just see the "trinity" everywhere in the Bible and the Corinthians verse has never been explained to me by the Jesus only church people. After everything has been put under His feet, not God the Father himself under His feet, then the end will come and Jesus will turn everything over to God the Father.
They were not able to explain this to me at all. So I will continue to believe in Father, Son and Holy Ghost as three in one spirit, who is God. There are other numerous verses I have had explained to me by the Jesus only church but that one in Corinthians is a stinker for them so they ignore it.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The Biblical Basis of the
Doctrine of the Trinity:
An Outline Study
By Robert M. Bowman, Jr.



Introduction
It is often alleged that the doctrine of the Trinity is not a biblical doctrine. While the word Trinity is not in the Bible, the substance of the doctrine is definitely biblical.
The following outline study presents an overview of the biblical basis of the doctrine of the Trinity. Comments on the texts have been kept to a bare minimum; the emphasis is on the many biblical texts themselves (about 700 references are listed, including references from 26 of the 27 books of the New Testament).
An exposition of many of the texts discussed here can be found in the author's book Why You Should Believe in the Trinity (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1989). Unfortunately, it is currently out of print, but you may be able to locate a copy through Amazon.com's out-of-print service.
Aproper evaluation of the biblical evidence for the doctrine of the Trinity will depend on the faithful application of sound principles of biblical interpretation. Here I will mention just two principles which, if followed, would prevent almost all interpretive errors on this subject.
The first is to interpret the implicit in light of the explicit. That is, texts that explicitly state that such-and-such is true are to govern our understanding of passages that do not address the issue directly. For example, many passages of the Bible state explicitly that God is omniscient, that is, that he knows all things, including the thoughts of men and all future events (1 Sam. 16:7; 1 Chron. 28:9, 17; Job 37:16; Psa. 139:1-4; Isa. 41:22-23; 42:9; 44:7; Jer. 17:10a). These texts must govern our understanding of passages which might seem to imply, but which do not assert, that God did not know something (e.g., Gen. 3:9-13; 4:9; 18:9, 20-21).
The other principle is that we interpret logically but not rationalistically. Using the same illustration, if God knows everything ahead of time, then logically He must have known that Adam and Eve would fall into sin. However, to argue that if God knew Adam and Eve would sin then they would not be responsible for their choosing to sin is not "logical," is rationalistic. It may be difficult to understand how persons could be responsible for their sinful actions if God knew ahead of time that they would sin, but it is not illogical (not self-contradictory) to say so.
It should be noted that a study of the Trinity should not be undertaken apart from a study of the nature of God.
I. There Is One God
A. One God: Explicit Statements
1. OT: Deut. 4:35; 39; 32:39; 2 Sam. 22:32; Isa. 37:20: 43:10; 44:6-8; 45:5; 14; 21-22; 46:9
2. NT: John 5:44; Rom. 3:30; 16:27; 1 Cor. 8:4-6; Gal. 3:20; Eph. 4:6; 1 Tim. 1:17; 2:5; James 2:19; Jude 25
B. None like God (in his essence)
1. Explicit statements: Ex. 8:10; 9:14; 15:11; 2 Sam. 7:22; 1 Kgs. 8:23; 1 Chr. 17:20; Psa. 86:8; Isa. 40:18, 25: 44:7; 46:5, 9; Jer. 10:6-7; Micah 7:18
2. Being like God a Satanic lie: Gen. 3:5; Isa. 14:14; John 8:44
3. Fallen man become "like God" only in that he took upon himself to know good and evil, not that he acquired godhood: Gen. 3:22
C. Only one true God: 2 Chr. 15:3; Jer. 10:10; John 17:3; 1 Thess. 1:9; 1 John 5:20-21
D. All other "gods" are therefore false gods (idols), not gods at all: Deut. 32:21; 1 Sam. 12:21; Psa. 96:5; Isa. 37:19; 41:23-24, 29; Jer. 2:11; 5:7; 16:20; 1 Cor. 8:4; 10:19-20
E. Demons, not gods, are the power behind false worship: Deut. 32:17; Psa. 106:37; 1 Cor. 10:20; Gal. 4:8
F. How human beings are meant to be "like God"
1. The image of God indicates that man is to represent God and share his moral character, not that man can be metaphysically like God: Gen. 1:26-27; 5:1; 1 Cor. 11:7; Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10
2. The goal of being like Christ has the following aspects only:
a. Sharing His moral character: 1 John 3:2; Rom. 8:29
b. Being raised with glorified, immortal bodies like His: Phil. 3:21; 1 Cor. 15:49
3. Becoming partakers of the divine nature refers again to moral nature ("having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust"), not metaphysical nature: 2 Pet. 1:4; see also Heb. 12:10; on the meaning of "partakers," see 1 Cor. 10:18, 20; 2 Cor. 1:17; 1 Pet. 5:1
G. Are mighty or exalted men gods?
1. Scripture never says explicitly that men are gods
2. Powerful, mighty men are explicitly said not to be gods: Ezek. 28:2, 9; Isa. 31:3; 2 Thess. 2:4
3. Men and God are opposite, exclusive categories: Num. 23:19; Isa. 31:3; Ezek. 28:2; Hosea 11:9; Matt. 19:26; John 10:33; Acts 12:22; 1 Cor. 14:2
4. Moses was "as God," not really a god: Ex. 4:16; 7:1
5. Ezek. 32:21 speaks of warriors or soldiers as "mighty gods," but in context they are so regarded by their pagan nations, not by God or Israel; cf. Ezek. 28:2, 9
6. The elohim before whom accused stood in Exodus was God Himself, not judges, as many translations incorrectly render: Ex. 22:8-9, 28; compare Deut. 19:17
7. The use of elohim in Psalm 82, probably in reference to wicked judges, as cited by Jesus in John 10:34-36, does not mean that men really can be gods.
a. It is Asaph, not the Lord, who calls the judges elohim in Psa. 82:1, 6. This is important, even though we agree that Psa. 82 is inspired.
b. Asaph's meaning is not "Although you are gods, you will die like men," but rather "I called you gods, but in fact you will all die like the men that you really are"
c. The Psalmist was no more saying that wicked judges were truly gods than he was saying that they were truly "sons of the Most High" (v. 6b)
d. Thus, Psa. 82:1 calls the judges elohim in irony. They had quite likely taken their role in judgment (cf. point 5 above) to mean they were elohim, or gods, and Asaph's message is that these so-called gods were mere men who would die under the judgment of the true elohim (vss. 1-2, 7-8)
e. Christ's use of this passage in John 10:34-36 does not negate the above interpretation of Psalm 82
f. The words, "The Scripture cannot be broken," means "the Scripture cannot go without having some ultimate fulfillment" (cf. John 7:23; Matt. 5:17). Thus Jesus is saying that what the OT judges were called in irony, He is in reality; He does what they could not do, and is what they could never be (see the Adam-Christ contrasts in Rom. 5:12-21 and 1 Cor. 15:21-22, 45 for a similar use of OT Scripture)
g. The clause, "those against whom the word of God came" (John 10:35) shows that this "word" was a word of judgment against the so-called gods; which shows that they were false gods, not really gods at all
h. Finally, these wicked men were certainly not "godlike" or "divine" by nature, so that in any case the use of elohim to refer to them must be seen as figurative, not literal
8. Even if men were gods (which they are not), this would be irrelevant to Jesus, since He was God as a preexistent spirit before creation: John 1:1
H. Are angels gods?
1. Scripture never explicitly states that angels are gods
2. Demonic spirits are not gods, 1 Cor. 10:20; Gal. 4:8; thus, being "mighty spirits" does not make angels gods
3. Satan is therefore also a false god: 2 Cor. 4:4
4. Psalm 8:5 does not teach that angels are gods
a. Psa. 8:5 is paraphrased in Heb. 2:7, not quoted literally (cf. Psa. 68:18 with Eph. 4:8). In Psa. 8:5, elohim certainly means God, not angels, since Psa. 8:3-8 parallels Gen. 1:1, 8 16, 26-28. Note that the Psalmist is speaking of man's exalted place in creation, whereas Hebrews is speaking of the lower place taken by Christ in becoming a man. Thus, Heb. 2:7 may not mean to equate angels with gods at all.
b. Even if Heb. 2:7 does imply that angels are "gods," in the context of Hebrews 1-2 these angels would be those falsely exalted above Christ: Note Heb. 1:6 (which quotes Psa. 97:7, which definitely speaks of "gods" in the sense of false gods); and cf. Col. 2:16 on the problem of the worship of angels.
5. Elsewhere in the Psalms angels, if spoken of as gods (or as "sons of the gods"), are considered false gods: Psa. 29:1; 86:8-10; 89:6; 95:3; 96:4-5; 97:7-9 (note that these false gods are called "angels" in the Septuagint); 135:5; 136:2; 138:1; cf. Ex. 15:11; 18:11; Deut. 10:17; 1 Chr. 16:25; 2 Chr. 2:5.
6. Even if the angels were gods (which the above shows they are not), that would be irrelevant to Jesus, since He is not an angelic being, but the Son who is worshipped by the angels as their Creator, Lord, and God: Heb. 1:1-13.
I. Conclusion: If there is only one God, one true God, all other gods being false gods, neither men nor angels being gods, and none even like God by nature - all of which the Bible says repeatedly and explicitly - then we must conclude that there is indeed only one God.
II. This One God Is Known in the OT as "Jehovah/Yahweh" ("The Lord")
A. Texts where Jehovah is said to be elohim or el: Deut. 4:35, 39; Psa. 100:3; etc.
B. Texts where the compound name "Jehovah God" (Yahweh Elohim) is used: Gen. 2:3; 9:26; 24:3; Ex. 3:15-18; 4:4; 2 Sam. 7:22, 25; etc.
C. Only one Yahweh/Jehovah: Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29
D. Conclusion: Jehovah is the only God, the only El or Elohim
III. God Is a Unique, Incomprehensible Being
A. Only one God, thus unique: See I.A.
B. None are even like God: see I.B.
C. God cannot be fully comprehended: 1 Cor. 8:2-3
D. God can only be known insofar as the Son reveals Him: Matt. 11:25-27; John 1:18
E. Analogical language needed to describe God: Ezek. 1:26-28; Rev. 1:13-16
F. God is transcendent, entirely distinct from and different than the universe, as the carpenter is distinct from the bench
1. Separate from the world: Isa. 40:22; Acts 17:24
2. Contrasted with the world: Psa. 102:25-27; 1 John 2:15-17
3. Created the world: Gen. 1:1; Psa. 33:6; 102:25; Isa. 42:5; 44:24; John 1:3; Rom. 11:36; Heb. 1:2; 11:3
IV. Is God One Person?
A. God is one God (cf. I above), one Yahweh, one Lord (cf. II above), one Spirit (John 4:24)
B. However, the Bible never says that God is "one person"
1. Heb. 1:3 KJV speaks of God's "person," but the word used here, hupostasis, is translated "substance" in Heb. 11:1 KJV; also in Heb. 1:3 "God" refers specifically to the Father
2. Gal. 3:20 speaks of God as one party in the covenant between God and man, not as one person
3. Job 13:8 KJV speaks of God's "person," but ironically the Hebrew literally means "his faces"
C. The use of singular and plural pronouns for God
1. Over 7000 times God speaks or is spoken of with singular pronouns (I, He, etc.); but this is proper because God is a single individual being; thus these singular forms do not disprove that God exists as three "persons" as long as these persons are not separate beings
2. At least three times God speaks of or to himself using plural pronouns (Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7), and nontrinitarian interpretation cannot account for these occurrences.
a. A plural reference to God and the angels is possible in Isa. 6:8, but not in the Genesis texts: in 1:26 "our image" is explained in 1:27, "in God's image"; in 3:22 "like one of us" refers back to 3:5, "like God."
b. The "literary plural" (possibly, though never clearly, attested in Paul) is irrelevant to texts in which God is speaking, not writing.
c. The "plural of deliberation" (as in "Let's see now...") is apparently unattested in biblical writings, and cannot explain Gen. 3:22 ("like one of us").
d. The "plural of amplitude" or of "fullness" (which probably does explain the use of the plural form elohim in the singular sense of "God") is irrelevant to the use of plural pronouns, and again cannot explain Gen. 3:22.
e. The "plural of majesty" is possibly attested in 1 Kgs. 12:9; 2 Chron. 10:9; more likely Ezra 4:18; but none of these are certain; and again, it cannot explain Gen. 3:22; also nothing in the context of the Genesis texts suggests that God is being presented particularly as King.
D. The uniqueness of God (cf. III above) should prepare us for the possibility that the one divine Being exists uniquely as a plurality of persons
V. The Father of Jesus Christ Is God
A. Explicit statements: John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; etc.
B. The expression, "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ": 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 1:3; 1 Pet. 1:3
VI. Jesus Christ Is God
A. Explicit statements
1. Isa. 9:6; note 10:21. Translations which render "mighty hero," are inconsistent in their rendering of 10:21. Also note that Ezek. 32:21 is (a) not in the same context, as is Isa. 10:21, and (b) speaking of false gods, cf. I.G.5. above.
2. John 1:1 Even if Jesus is here called "a god" (as some have argued), since there is only one God, Jesus is that God. However, the "a god" rendering is incorrect. Other passages using the Greek word for God (theos) in the same construction are always rendered "God": Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38; John 8:54; Phil 2:13; Heb. 11:16. Passages in which a shift occurs from ho theos ("the God") to theos ("God") never imply a shift in meaning: Mark 12:27; Luke 20:37-38; John 3:2; 13:3; Rom. 1:21; 1 Thess. 1:9; heb. 9:14; 1 Pet. 4:10-11
3. John 1:18. The best manuscripts have "the unique God" (monogenês, frequently rendered "only-begotten," actually means "one of a kind," "unique," though in the NT always in the context of a son or daughter). Even if one translates "only-begotten," the idea is not of a "begotten god" as opposed to an "unbegotten god."
4. John 20:28. Compare Rev. 4:11, where the same construction is used in the plural ("our") instead of the singular ("my"). See also Psa. 35:23. Note that Christ's response indicates that Thomas' acclamation was not wrong. Also note that John 20:17 does show that the Father was Jesus' "God" (due to Jesus becoming a man), but the words "my God" as spoken by Thomas later in the same chapter must mean no less than in v. 17. Thus, what the Father is to Jesus in His humanity, Jesus is to Thomas (and therefore to us as well).
5. Acts 20:28: "the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." The variant readings (e.g. "the church of the Lord") show that the original was understood to mean "His own blood," not "the blood of His own [Son]" (since otherwise no one would have thought to change it). Thus all other renderings are attempts to evade the startling clarity and meaning of this passage.
6. Rom. 9:5. While grammatically this is not the only possible interpretation, the consistent form of doxologies in Scripture, as well as the smoothest reading of the text, supports the identification of Christ as "God" in this verse.
7. Titus 2:13. Grammatically and contextually, this is one of the strongest proof-texts for the deity of Christ. Sharp's first rule, properly understood, proves that the text should be translated "our great God and Savior" (cf. same construction in Luke 20:37; Rev. 1:6; and many other passages). Note also that Paul always uses the word "manifestation" ("appearing") of Christ: 2 Thess. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:14; 2. Tim. 1:10; 4:1, 8.
8. Heb. 1:8. The rendering, "God is your throne," is nonsense - God is not a throne, He is the one who sits on the throne! Also, "God is your throne," if taken to mean God is the source of one's rule, could be said about any angelic ruler - but Hebrews 1 is arguing that Jesus is superior to the angels.
9. 2 Pet. 1:1. The same construction is used here as in Titus 2:13; see the parallel passages in 2 Pet. 1:11; 2:20; 3:2, 18.
10. 1 John 5:20. Note that the most obvious antecedent for "this" is Jesus Christ. Also note that the "eternal life" is Christ, as can be seen from 1:2.
B. Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh
1. Rom. 10:9-13: Note the repeated "for," which links these verses closely together. The "Lord" of 10:13 must be the "Lord" of 10:9, 12.
2. Phil. 2:9-11. In context, the "name that is above every name" is "Lord" (vs. 11), i.e., Jehovah.
3. Heb. 1:10: Here God the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," in a quotation from Psa. 102:25 (cf. 102:24, where the person addressed is called "God"). Since here the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," this cannot be explained away as a text in which a creature addresses Christ as God/Lord in a merely representational sense.
4. 1 Pet. 2:3-4: This verse is nearly an exact quotation of Psa. 34:8a, where "Lord" is Jehovah. From 1 Pet. 2:4-8 it is also clear that "the Lord" in v. 3 is Jesus.
5. 1 Pet. 3:14-15: these verses are a clear reference to Isa. 8:12-13, where the one who is to be regarded as holy is Jehovah.
6. Texts where Jesus is spoken of as the "one Lord" (cf. Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29): 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:5; cf. Rom. 10:12; 1 Cor. 12:5.
C. Jesus has the titles of God
1. Titles belonging only to God
a. The first and the last: Rev. 1:17; 22:13; cf. Isa. 44:6
b. King of kings and Lord of lords: 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14; 19:16
2. Titles belonging in the ultimate sense only to God
a. Savior: Luke 2:11; John 4:42; 1 John 4:14; Titus 2:13, cf. v. 10; etc.; cf. Isa. 43.11; 45:21-22; 1 Tim. 4:10; on Jesus becoming the source of salvation; Heb. 5:9, cf. Ex. 15:2; Psa. 118:14, 21
b. Shepherd: John 10:11; Heb. 13:20; cf. Psa. 23:1; Isa. 40:11
c. Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4; cf. Isa. 44:8
D. Jesus received the honors due to God alone
1. Honor: John 5:23
2. Love: Matt. 10:37
3. Prayer: John 14:14 (text debated, but in any case it is Jesus who answers the prayer); Acts 1:24-25; 7:59-60 (cf. Luke 23:34, 46); Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:2; 2 Cor. 12:8-10 (where "the Lord" must be Jesus, cf. v. 9); 2 Thess. 2:16-17; etc.
4. Worship (proskuneô): Matt. 28:17; Heb. 1:6 (cf. Psa. 97:7); cf. Matt 4:10
5. Religious or sacred service (latreuô): Rev. 22:13
6. Doxological praise: 2 Tim. 4:18; 2 Pet. 3:18; Rev. 1:5-6; 5:13
7. Faith: John 3:16; 14:1; etc.
E. Jesus does the works of God
1. Creation: John 1:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2; Rev. 3:14 (where archê probably means ruler); on "through" and "in" cf. Rom. 11:36; Heb. 2:10; Acts 17:28; cf. also Isa. 44:24
2. Sustains the universe: Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3, 11-12
3. Salvation:
a. In General: See C.2.a. above
b. Forgives sins: Matt. 9:1-8; Mark 2:1-12; Luke 5:17-26; note that Jesus forgives sins not committed against Him.
4. All of them: John 5:17-29 (including judgment, cf. Matt. 25:31-46; 2 Cor. 5:10)
F. Jesus has all the incommunicable attributes of God
1. All of them: John 1:1; Phil. 2:6; Col. 1:15; 2:9; Heb. 1:3
2. Self-existent: John 5:26
3. Unchangeable: Heb. 1:10-12 (in the same sense as YHWH); 13:8
4. Eternal: John 1:1; 8:58; 17:5; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:2
5. Omnipresent: Matt. 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; Eph. 1:23; 4:10; Col. 3:11
6. Omniscient: John 16:30; 21:17; cf. 2:23-24
7. Incomprehensible: Matt. 11:25-27

 

[Daniel Marsh]

G. Jesus is "equal with God"
1. John 5:18: Although John is relating what the Jews understood Jesus to be claiming, the context shows they were basically right: In v. 17 claimed to be exempt from the Sabbath along with His Father, and in 5:19-29 Jesus claimed to do all of the world of the Father and to deserve the same honor as the Father
2. Phil. 2:6: Jesus did not attempt to seize recognition by the world as being equal with God, but attained that recognition by humbling himself and being exalted by the Father (vv. 7-11)
H. Jesus is the Son of God
1. "Son" in Scripture can mean simply one possessing the nature of something, whether literal or figurative (e.g. "Son of man," "sons of thunder," "sons of disobedience," cf. Mark 3:7; Eph. 2:1).
2. Usually when "son of" is used in relation to a person (son of man, son of Abraham, son of David, etc.) the son possesses the nature of his father.
3. Jesus is clearly not the literal Son of God, i.e., He was not physically procreated by God.
4. On the other hand, Jesus is clearly the Son of God in a unique sense (cf. "only-begotten son," John 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9) and in a preeminent sense (i.e. the term is more fitting for Him than for anyone else).
5. Scripture is explicit that the Son possesses God's essence or nature (cf. F. above).
6. Jesus' repeated claim to be the Son of God was consistently understood by the Jewish leaders as a blasphemous claim to equality with God, an understanding Jesus never denied: John 5:17-23; 8:58-59; 10:30-39; 19:7; Matt. 26:63-65.
7. Jesus is therefore by nature God's Son, not God's creation or God's servant; Jesus is God's Son who became a servant for our sake and for the Father's glory (John 13:13-15; 17:4; Phil. 2:6-11; Heb. 1:4-13; 3:1-6; 5:8; etc.).
I. Objections
1. Prov. 8:22: This text is not a literal description of Christ, but a poetic personification of wisdom (cf. all of Prov. 1-9, esp. 8:12-21; 9:1-6), poetically saying that God "got" His wisdom before He did anything - i.e., that God has always had wisdom.
2. Col. 1:15: Does not mean that Christ is the first creature, since He is here presented as the Son and principal heir of the Father (cf. vv. 12-44); thus "firstborn" here means "heir" (cf. Gen. 43:33; 48;14-20; Ex. 4:22; 1 Chron. 5:1-3; Psa. 89:27; Jer. 31:9); note that v. 16 speaks of the Son as the Creator, nor creature (cf. E.1. above).
3. Rev. 3:14: "Beginning" (archê) in Rev. as a title means source or one who begins, i.e. Creator (cf. Rev. 1:8; 21:6; 22:13); elsewhere Christ is called the archê in the sense of "ruler," Col. 1:18, cf. plural archai, "rulers," in Col. 1:16; 2:10, 15, also Luke 12:11; Rom. 8:38; Eph. 3:10; 6:12; Tit. 3:1; cf. Luke 20:20; Jude 6; 1 Cor. 15:24; Eph. 1:21.
4. 1 Cor. 11:3; 15:28: Jesus is still subordinate to God, but as the Son to the Father; i.e., they are equal in nature, but the Son is subordinate relationally to God.
5. John 20:17; Rom. 15:6; 1 Cor. 15:24; 2 Cor. 1:3; Rev. 1:6; 3:12: Jesus calls the Father "My God" because He is still man as well as God; note the distinction between "My God" and "your God" in John 20:17 (i.e., Jesus never speaks of "our God" including Himself with the disciples).
6. Mark 13:32: Jesus' statement that He did not know the time of His return is to be explained by His voluntary acceptance of the humble form and likeness of a man (Phil. 2:7); in fact Jesus, as God, did know all things (John 16:30), and after His resurrection He does not including Himself as not knowing (Acts 1:6-7).
7. Mark 10:17-18: Jesus does not deny being God, but simply tells the man that he has no business calling anyone "good" in an unqualified sense except God.
8. Heb. 5:14: Jesus was tempted, cf. James 1:13; but note that Jesus could not sin, John 5:19.
9. John 1:18: No one has seen God, but men have seen Jesus, e.g. 1 John 1:1-2; but note that no man can see the glorified Jesus either, 1 Tim. 6:16, and to see Jesus is to see the Father, John 14:9.
10. 1 Tim. 1:17: God cannot die, but Jesus did, e.g. Phil. 2:8; but note that no one could take Jesus' life from Him, He could not remain dead, and He raised Himself: John 10:18; Acts 2:24; John 2:19-22.
11. 1 Cor. 8:6: Father called God, Jesus called Lord: but here "God" and "Lord" are synonymous (cf. v. 5; cf. also Rom. 14:3-12 for a good example of "God" and "Lord" as interchangeable); moreover, this text no more denies that Jesus is God than it does that the Father is Lord (Matt. 11:25); cf. Jude 4, where Jesus is the only Lord.
12. 1 Tim. 2:5: Jesus here supposedly distinct from God; but Jesus is also distinct from (fallen) men, yet is Himself a man; likewise Jesus is distinct from God (the Father), but is also God.
13. Deut. 4:12, 15-25; God not appear in a human form to Israel, lest they fall into idolatry; but this does not rule out His appearing in human form later after they had learned to abhor idolatry.
14. In many texts Jesus is distinguished from God: He is the Son of God, was sent by God, etc.; in all these texts "God" is used as a name for the person most commonly called God, i.e., the Father.
VII. The Holy Spirit Is God
A. Equated with God: Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:17-18
B. Has the incommunicable attributes of God
1. Eternal: Heb. 9:14
2. Omnipresent: Psa. 139:7
3. Omniscient: 1 Cor. 2:10-11
C. Involved in all the works of God
1. Creation: Gen. 1:2; Psa. 104:30
2. Incarnation: Matt. 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35
3. Resurrection: Rom. 1:4; 8:11
4. Salvation: Rom. 8:1-27
D. Is a person
1. Has a name: Matt. 28:19; note that even though "name" might be used of a nonperson, here, in conjunction with the Father and the Son, it must be used of a person
2. Is the "Helper"
a. Is another Helper: John 14:16, cf. 1 John 2:1; note also that "Helper" (paraklêtos) was used in Greek always or almost always of persons.
b. Is sent in Jesus' name, to teach: John 14:26.
c. Will arrive, and then bear witness: John 15:26-27.
d. Is sent by Christ to convict of sin, will speak not on his own but on behalf of Christ, will glorify Christ, thus exhibiting humility: John 16:7-14.
3. Is the Holy Spirit, in contrast to unholy spirits: Mark 3:22-30, cf. Matt. 12:32; 1 Tim. 4:1; 1 John 3:24-4:6.
4. Speaks, is quoted as speaking: John 16:13; Acts 1:16; 8:29; 10:19; 11:12; 13:2; 16:6; 20:23; 21:11: 28:25-27; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb. 3:7-11; 10:15-17; 1 Pet. 1:11; Rev. 2:7, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13,22.
5. Can be lied to: Acts 5:3
6. Can make decisions, judgments: Acts 15:28
7. Intercedes for Christians with the Father: Rom. 8:26
8. "Impersonal" language used of the Spirit paralled by language used of other persons
a. The Holy Spirit as fire: Matt. 3:11; Luke 3:16; cf. Ex. 3:2-4; Deut. 4:24; 9:3; Heb. 12:29
b. The Holy Spirit poured out: Acts 2:17, 33; cf. Isa. 53:12; Phil. 2:17; 2 Tim. 4:6
c. Being filled with the Holy Spirit: Eph. 5:18, etc.; cf. Eph. 3:17, 19; 14:10
VIII. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Are Distinct Persons
A. Matt. 28:19
1. "the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit": use of definite article before each personal noun indicates distinct persons unless explicitly stated otherwise; compare Rev. 1:17; 2:8, 26
2. The views that "Father" and "Son" are distinct persons but not the Holy Spirit, or that the Holy Spirit is not a person at all, or that all three are different offices or roles of one person, are impossible in view of the grammar (together with the fact that in Scripture a "spirit" is a person unless context shows otherwise).
3. Does singular "name" prove that the three are one person? No; cf. Gen. 5:2; 11:14; 48:6; and esp. 48:16
4. "Name" need not be personal name, may be title: Isa. 9:6; Matt. 1:23. If a single personal name is sought, the name shared by all three persons is "Yahweh" or "Jehovah."
B. Acts 2:38 and Matt. 28:19
1. Neither passage specifies that certain words are to be spoken during baptism; nor does the Bible ever record someone saying, "I baptize you in the name of...."
2. Those said to be baptized in the name of Jesus (whether or not the formula "in the name of Jesus" was used) were people already familiar with the God of the OT:
a. Jews: Acts 2:5, 38; 22:16
b. Samaritans: Acts 8:5, 12, 16
c. God-fearing Gentiles: Acts 10:1-2, 22, 48
d. Disciples of John the Baptist: Acts 19:1-5
e. The first Christians in Corinth were Jews and God-fearing Gentiles: Acts 18:1-8; 1 Cor. 1:13
3. Trinitarian formula for baptism (if that is what Matt. 28:19 is) was given in context of commissioning apostles to take the gospel to "all the nations," including people who did not know of the biblical God
C. God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ are two persons
1. The salutations: Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph. 1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1, 2; 1 Tim. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; Phm. 3; James 1:1; 2 Pet. 1:2; 2 John 3
2. Two witnesses: John 5:31-32; 8:16-18; cf. Num. 35:30; Deut. 17:6; 19:15
3. The Father sent the Son: John 3:16-17; Gal. 4:4; 1 John 4:10; etc.; cf. John 1:6; 17:18; 20:21
4. The Father and the Son love each other: John 3:35; 5:20; 14:31; 15:9; 17-23-26; cf. Matt. 3:17 par.; 17:5 par.; 2 Pet. 1:17
5. The Father speaks to the Son, and the Son speaks to the Father: John 11:41-42; 12:28; 17:1-26; etc.
6. The Father knows the Son, and the Son knows the Father: Matt. 11:27; Luke 10:22; John 7:29; 8:55; 10:15
7. Jesus our Advocate with the Father: 1 John 2:1
D. Jesus is not God the Father
1. Isa. 9:6: "Father of eternity" means eternal; compare other names formed with word "father": Abialbon, "father of strength" = strong (2 Sam. 23:31); Abiasaph, "father of gathering" = gatherer (Ex. 6:24); Abigail, a woman's name(!), "father of exultation" = exulting (1 Chron. 2:16).
2. John 10:30
a. Jesus did not say, "I am the Father," nor did He say, "the Son and the Father are one person."
b. The first person plural esmen ("we are") implies two persons.
c. The neuter word for "one" (hen) is used, implying essential unity but not personal unity (compare John 17:21-23).
3. John 5:43: Jesus' coming in His Father's name means not that He was the Father because He had the Father's name, but that, while others come in their own name (or their own authority), Jesus does not; He comes in His Father's name (on His Father's authority).
4. John 8:19; 16:3: Ignorance of Jesus is indeed ignorance of the Father, but that does not prove that Jesus is the one He calls "My Father."
5. John 14:6-11
a. Jesus and the Father are one being, not one person.
b. Jesus said, "I am in the Father," not "I am the Father."
c. The statement, "the Father is in Me," does not mean Jesus is the Father; compare John 14:20; 17:21-23.
6. John 14:18: An older adult brother can care for his younger siblings, thus preventing them from being "orphans," without being their father.
7. Colossians 2:9: Does not mean that Jesus is the Father, or that Jesus is an incarnation of the Father; rather, since "Godhead" (theotês) means Deity, the state of being God, the nature of God, Jesus is fully God, but not the only person who is God. "The Godhead" here does not = the Father (note that Jesus is in the Father, John 10:38; 14:10, 11; 17:21), but the nature of the Father.
8. The Father and the Son are both involved in various activities: raising Jesus (Gal. 1:1; John 2:19-22), raising the dead (John 5:21); 6:39-40, 44, 54, 1 Cor. 6:14), answering prayer (John 14:13-14; 15:16; 16:23), sending the Holy Spirit (John 14:16; 15:26; 16:7), drawing people to Jesus (John 6:44; 12:32), etc. These common works do prove that the two persons are both God, but not that Jesus is the Father
E. The Son existed before his Incarnation, even before creation
1. Prov. 30:4: This is not predictive prophecy; "prophecy" in 30:1 translates massa, which is rendered elsewhere as "burden."
2. The Son created all things: See VI.E.1
3. Jesus was "with" (pros or para) God the Father before creation: John 1:1; 17:5; pros in John 1:1 does not mean "pertaining to," although it does in Hebrews 2:17; 5:1 (which use pros with ta).
4. Jesus, the Son of God, existed before John the Baptist (who was born before Jesus): John 1:15, cf. 1:14-18, 29-34
5. Jesus, the Son, came down from heaven, sent from the Father, and went back to heaven, back to the Father: John 3:13, 31; 6:33; 38, 41, 46, 51, 56-58, 62; 8:23, 42; 13:3; 16:27-28; cf. Acts 1:10-11; cf. the sending of the Holy Spirit, John 16:5-7; 1 Pet. 1:12
6. Jesus, speaking as the Son (John 8:54-56), asserts His eternal preexistence before Abraham: John 8:58
7. The Son explicitly said to exist "before all things": Col. 1:17, cf. 1:12-20
8. These statements cannot be dismissed as true only in God's foreknowledge
a. We are all "in God's mind" before creation; yet such passages as John 1:1 and John 17:5 clearly mean to say something unusual about Christ.
b. To say that all things were created through Christ means that He must have existed at creation.
c. No one else in Scripture is ever said to have been with God before creation.
9. Texts which speak of the Son being begotten "today" do not mean He became the Son on a certain day, since they refer to His exaltation at the resurrection (Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:3-5; 5:5; cf. Psa. 2:7; cf. also Rom. 1:4).
F. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit
1. The Holy Spirit is "another Comforter": John 14:16; compare 1 John 2:1.
2. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit: John 15:26; 16:7.
3. The Holy Spirit exhibits humility in relation to, and seeks to glorify, Jesus (John 16:13-14).
4. The Son and the Holy Spirit are distinguished as two persons in Matt. 28:19.
5. The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus: Luke 3:22.
6. Is Jesus the Holy Spirit?
a. 2 Cor. 3:17: the Spirit is here called "Lord" in the sense of being Yahweh or God, not Jesus (cf. v. 16, citing Ex. 34:34; cf. v. 17 in the Revised English Bible); note Acts 28:25-27, cf. Isa. 6:8-10.
b. 1 Cor. 15:45: Jesus is "a life-giving Spirit," not in the sense that He is the Holy Spirit whom He sent at Pentecost, but in the sense that He is the glorified God-man; and as God He is Spirit by nature. All three persons of the Trinity are Spirit, though there are not three divine Spirits; and only one person is designated "the Holy Spirit."
c. Rom. 8:27, 34: the fact that two persons intercede for us is consistent with the fact that we have two Advocates (John 14:16; Rom. 8:26; 1 John 2:1).
d. John 14:18: Jesus here refers to His appearances to the disciples after the resurrection (compare 14:19), not to the coming of the Spirit.
e. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both involved in various activities: raising Jesus (John 2:19-19-22); Rom. 8:9-11), raising the dead (John 5:21; 6:39-40, 44, 54, Rom. 8:9-11), dwelling in the believer (John 14:16; 2 Cor. 13:5; Col. 1:27), interceding for the believer (Rom. 8:26; Heb. 7:25), sanctifying believers (Eph. 5:26; 1 Pet. 1:2), etc. These works prove that the two persons are both God, but not that Jesus is the Holy Spirit.
G. The Father is not the Holy Spirit
1. The Father sent the Holy Spirit: John 14:15; 15:26.
2. The Holy Spirit intercedes with the Father for us: Rom. 8:26-27.
3. The Father and the Holy Spirit are distinguished as two persons in Matt. 28:19.
4. Is the Father the Holy Spirit?
a. Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:35: It is argued that the Holy Spirit is the Father of the incarnate Son of God; this argument ignores the fact that the "conception" is not a product of physical union between a man and a woman!
b. The Father and the Holy Spirit are both said to be active in various activities; the resurrection of Jesus (Gal. 1:1; Rom. 8:11), comforting Christians (2 Cor. 1:3-4; John 14:26), sanctifying Christians (Jude 1; 1 Pet. 1:2), etc. The most these facts prove is that the two work together; they do not prove the two are one person.
IX. Conclusion: The Bible teaches the Trinity
A. All the elements of the doctrine are taught in Scripture.
1. One God
2. The Father is God.
3. The Son is God.
4. The Holy Spirit is God.
5. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three persons (i.e., they are not each other, nor are they impersonal; they relate to one another personally).
B. The New Testament presents a consistent triad of Father, Son, Holy Spirit (God, Christ, Spirit): Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:34; also Luke 1:35; 3:21-22 par.; 4:1-12; John 4:10-25; 7:37-39; 14-16; 20:21-22; Acts 1:4-8; 2:33, 38-39; 5:3-4, 9, 30-32; 7:55-56; 10:36-38, 44-48; 11:15-18; 15:8-11; 20:38; 28:25-31; Rom. 1:1-4; 5:5-10; 8:2-4, 9-11, 14-17; 1 Cor. 6:11; 12:4-6, 11-12, 18; 2 Cor. 1:19-22; 3:6-8, 14-18; Gal. 3:8-14; 4:4-7; Eph. 1:3-17; 2:18, 21-22; 3:14-19; 4:4-6, 29-32; 5:18-20; Phil. 3:3; 1 Thess. 1:3-6; 2 Thess. 2:13-14; Tit. 3:4-6; Heb. 2:3-4; 9:14; 10:28-31; 1 Pet. 1:2; 1 John 3:21-24; 4:13-14; Jude 20-21; Rev. 2:18, 27-29.
C. Therefore, the Bible does teach the Trinity.
X. What Difference Does the Doctrine of the Trinity Make?
A. Sovereignty: Because the three persons have each other, we can be assured that God created us only to share the love they have and not as a means to His own end: Acts 17:25; John 17:21-26.
B. Mystery: The triune God is totally unlike anything in our world, and therefore greater than anything we can comprehend: Rom. 11:33-36; Isa. 40:18.
C. Salvation: God alone planned our salvation, came to save us, and dwells in us to complete our salvation: 1 Pet. 1:2; Eph. 1:3-18; etc.
D. Prayer: We pray to the Father through the Son, and also pray to the Son directly, in the Spirit: John 14:13-14; Eph. 2:18; etc.
E. Worship: We worship Father and Son in the Spirit: John 4:23-24; Phil. 3:3; Heb. 1:8; etc.
F. Love: The love among the three persons is the basis and model for our love for one another: John 17:26.
G. Unity: The unity of the three persons is the basis and model for the unity of the church: John 17:21-23.
H. Humility: As the persons of the Trinity seek the glory of each other, so we should seek the interests of others above our own: Phil. 2:5-11; John 16:13-14.
I. Sonship: We are "sons of God" as we are united with the Son of God by the work of the Holy Spirit and the adoption of the Father: John 1:12-23; Rom. 8:14-17.
J. Truth: All those who wish to worship and love God must seek to know Him as He is in truth, for God, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is truth: John 4:24; 14:6, 17; 15:26; 16:13.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

What Does the Bible Mean by Temptation?

by Bob and Gretchen Passantino.

1. God cannot be tempted (James 1:13).
2. God can be tempted (or there would be no reason for us to be warned against tempting God -- Deuteronomy 6:16).
3. If God cannot be tempted (see 1 above), and Jesus is God, then does that mean he cannot be tempted? (James 1:13)
4. But Jesus was tempted (Hebrews 4:15).
5. God tempts no one (James 1:13).
6. God tempted someone (David, to number Israel -- 2 Samuel 24:1).

How are these biblical statements reconciled, both within scripture and consistent with God's character?

The answers to these statements can be categorized in two major ways: vocabulary (what words were used in the original, and what meanings those words have), and context (how the words were used in each passage).
Vocabulary

Temptation has many synonyms (equivalent words) in English. It can mean (among other things) test, proof, experiment, trial, and enticement. The main Greek (New Testament language) words for temptation are formed from peiraz and dokimaz , both words of which also occur in the Greek translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. The main Hebrew words are n sƒh, s rap, and b han, and one word which relates primarily to the genuineness of coins, sig. Comparing the Septuagint equivalents to the original Hebrew helps us understand the overall biblical use of the terms.

[Those who wish more information on the Greek or Hebrew should see The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (Vol. 3), Colin Brown, ed., Zondervan, 1978, pp. 798-810; or The Expository Dictionary of Bible Words, Lawrence O. Richards, Zondervan, 1985, pp. 593-594.]
Both peiraz and dokimaz can mean test or proof. In addition, peiraz includes the ideas of temptation or enticement (to sin) and of a trial. Dokimaz also carries the connotation of approval or genuineness.
From this vocabulary study, we see that "temptation" can mean test, proof, or to establish genuineness; not only "enticement to sin."
Context

Armed with our vocabulary study, we can look at the context of each of our six statements.

God Cannot Be Tempted

James 1:13 says, "Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am being tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone." Looking at the context, we see that the statement is not merely "God cannot be tempted," but "God cannot be tempted by evil." In other words, God cannot be enticed to sin (Greek apeir st s). James 1:13 affirms that God cannot sin, but is completely holy and good.

God Can Be Tempted

When Deuteronomy 6:16 warns us against "tempting God," the context refers on the one hand to testing the Israelites' faithfulness and, on the other hand, to testing God's righteous judgment. Paraphrased, the passage means, "Don't test God's righteous judgment by worship-ping idols unless you are willing to be wiped off the face of the earth" (v. 15).

The reconciliation of the two statements? God cannot be enticed to sin; he is holy and good. God's consistent, holy, good reaction to idolatry is righteous judgment. One should not "test" God's character by sinning, since God will "pass the test" of righteousness and punish the sinner (see also Jeremiah 18:7-10).
Can Jesus Be God and Be Tempted?

Jesus is God and so he cannot be tempted in the sense that he cannot be enticed to sin, but he can be tempted in the sense that he can be tested, even with the evil lures of Satan (Matthew 4), and found to be true to his character. This is the context of Hebrews 4:15, which says, "For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted (peiraz ) in all things as we are, yet without sin."

Jesus was tested by Satan's enticements concerning his obedience to the Father and his commitment to his messianic mission, yet he did not succumb to the temptation. (A related issue concerns the dynamics between Christ's human and divine natures, under the subjection of his one divine person. See The Impeccable Christ by W. E. Best, Zondervan, 1971).
Does God Tempt People?

Look again at James 1:13. Just as God cannot be enticed into sinning, so God does not entice anyone else into sinning. That is what is meant by "and He Himself does not tempt anyone." James warns us not to blame our own fall into sin on God. God does not persuade us to sin, we willingly fall to the lure of our own sinful nature (Romans 3:23), the sinfulness in the world (Titus 2:12), and/or the false promises of Satan (Genesis 3:1-5).

When 2 Samuel 24:1 says God provoked or tempted David to number Israel, it means God made use of David's action to manifest David's disobedience to God. The parallel passage in 1 Chronicles 27:23-24 credits Satan with provoking David to take the census. Putting the two passages together shows that, while Satan may have enticed David into sin, it was God who tested David and used that occasion to show both David and the Israelites the consequences of David's sin.
God tests us to reveal to ourselves and the world our true characters.
God has always tested each order of rational beings that He has created. This test has consisted of proof of perfect trust and obedience. A test in itself is not a cause of sin. Only the action of the one tested can turn it into an occasion to sin. . . . Adam and Eve faced a test of obedience, and disobeyed and fell. Christ, in order to redeem men, faced testing, and came out victorious (Hebrews 5:7-9) (Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 2, Charles Pfeiffer, Howard Vos, and John Rea, eds., Moody, 1975, p. 1680).
Summary

There are various meanings for the word temptation. Usually it means either an enticement to sin or a test or trial. God never entices anyone to sin, but uses testing to reveal his justice and challenge believers to faithfulness (2 Corinthians 13:5-8).

 

[Daniel Marsh]

logos

In looking at the starting post, I keep seeing Exegetical Fallacies, its author should read Carsons' book by that title.

The word logos translated from memra in the Targums in Jesus' day substituted the phrase "word of God" or "The Word" for the name of God (see Ex 19:17, 31:13, Deut 9:3, 33:27 and Isa 48:13 for examples in the Targums) The Jonathan Targum alone uses word or word of God 320 times for the name of God. Various philosphers and Rabbis of Jesus's time had various meanings for logos. In fact, last time I read Philo's works I stopped counting its many uses. I think John was simply using the word logos as a hook because when someone saw the word logos used, they would ask, how does he use this word, what does it mean? John goes on in the chapter to define the term logos. The fallacy that was used was reading a meaning into the word logos and not allowing the context it was used in to define the word.

The purpose of the following is to show just a few of the many meanings for the word logos in Jesus's day that is why when someone used the word logos, the natural question was, what does he mean by logos?

The writing of Heraclitus (ca. 535-475 BCE) was the first place where the word logos was given special attention in ancient Greek philosophy. [6] Though Heraclitus "quite deliberately plays on the various meanings of logos", [7] there is no compelling reason to suppose that he used it in a special technical sense, significantly different from the way it was used in ordinary Greek of his time. [8]

....

2. 2. Aristotle's rhetorical logos
​

Aristotle defined logos as argument from reason, one of the three modes of persuasion. ...

2. 3. The Stoics
In Stoic philosophy, which began with Zeno of Citium c. 300 BCE, the logos was the active reason pervading the universe and animating it. It was conceived of as material, and is usually identified with God or Nature. The Stoics also referred to the seminal logos, ("logos spermatikos") or the law of generation in the universe, which was the principle of the active reason working in inanimate matter. Humans, too, each possess a portion of the divine logos. [10]
2. 4. Philo of Alexandria

Philo (20 BC - 50 AD), a Hellenized Jew, used the term logos to mean the creative principle. Philo followed the Platonic distinction between imperfect matter and perfect idea. The logos was necessary, he taught, because God cannot come into contact with matter. He sometimes identified logos as divine wisdom. He taught that the Logos was the image of God, after which the human mind (νοῦς) was made. He calls the Logos the "archangel of many names," "taxiarch" (corps-commander), the "name of God," also the "heavenly Adam", [11] the "man, the word of the eternal God." The Logos is also designated as "high priest," in reference to the exalted position which the high priest occupied after the Exile as the real center of the Jewish state. The Logos, like the high priest, is the expiator of sins, and the mediator and advocate for men: ἱκέτης ("Quis Rerum Divinarum Heres Sit," § 42 [i. 501], and παράκλητος ("De Vita Mosis," iii. 14 [ii. 155]). [12]

 

[Daniel Marsh]

John 6:46 (New International Version)
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

John clarifies "no one has seen God" in chapter 6. He is plainly saying no one has seen God the Father. God made many appearances in the OT, I think those were likely God the Son making those appearances. If you reread John 1 in context, it makes sense that John is saying no one has seen God the Father.

•Gen. 17:1, "Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; walk before Me, and be blameless."

•Gen. 18:1, "Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day."

•Ex. 6:2-3, "God spoke further to Moses and said to him, I am the LORD; and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD I did not make myself known to them.'"

•Exodus 24:9-11, "Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they beheld God, and they ate and drank."

•Exodus 33:11, "Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend..."

•Num. 12:6-8, "He [God] said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a vision. I shall speak with him in a dream. Not so, with My servant Moses, He is faithful in all My household; with him I speak mouth to mouth, even openly, and not in dark sayings, and he beholds the form of the LORD..."

 

[Daniel Marsh]

John 10:30, Psa 82 and "Son of God"

In short, Jesus is using a form of Jewish logic arguing from the lesser to the greater. If these men can be called gods, then I who came from heaven can be called "Son of God". Jesus statement "I and the father are one" refers to one in nature. If Jesus meant one in purpose, then the Jews would have hugged him and say, so are we. Also, the phrase "Son of God" in this context implies of the same nature otherwise, Jesus could not have been convicted of Blasphemy in Matthew 26 for claiming to be the "son of God".

63But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.64Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.65Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The questions about who is running the universe when God was in Jesus on earth and can God die are based on false understanding of death.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

James clearly says that death is simply seperation of body and spirit, nothing more.

We know that when Jesus died according to Peter Jesus preached to those in the grave. In Isaiah 14, when the king of bablyon died the "dead" raised up to greet him. Ecc 9 simply says that those in the world of the dead have no knowledge of what is going on "under the sun", it does not say they do not know what is going on where they are.
The reason Hell is eternal punishment (Matt 25:46) is because all at the ressurrection recieve the same imparisable immortal body (I Cor 15) and other ressurrection passages.

The list of quotes only proves that Jesus was fully man, we do not deny this. You simply twist unto your own destruction those verses that teach that Jesus is fully God too.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The Father is God
I think I can quickly address the issue of the Father’s deity since you no doubt already agree with my beliefs regarding this. If the following is not sufficient for you let me know and I will supply more. I will work on compiling my collection of verses that speak of Christ’s deity. There are a great many of these. I will also address some Watchtower misunderstandings of certain verses that speak to this issue.
“…according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
1 Peter 1:2 NASB
“For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, “This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased.”
2 Peter 1:17 NASB
In these passages the Father is called God. I think you will agree that if the Word of God calls the Father “God” then he is in fact God.
Some quotes to consider:
“We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with God’s Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination.” (The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life, 1968, page 13) [Watchtower publication]
“Reasonable persons agree that the only fair method is to examine the evidence on both sides, both for and against a disputed theory. That is how one arrives at the truth.”
- Source: Awake, Oct. 22, 1973, page 6 [Watchtower publication]
“Can there be false religion? It is not a form of religious persecution for anyone to say and to show that another religion is false. It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false, thus allowing persons to see the difference between false religion and true religion.”
- Source: Watchtower, Nov. 15, 1963, page 688
Blessings.
The Son is God
I.He Possesses the Qualities and Properties of Deity.
1.Preexistence –
“Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.’”
John 8:58
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”
John 17:5
“For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Colossians 1:16-17
2.Self Existence and Life Giving Power
“For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;”
John 5:26
“Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.’”
John 14:6
“And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.”
Heb 7:15-16
3.Immutability
“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.”
(Hebrews 13:8

II.He Possesses Divine Attributes
1.Sinlessness
“He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”
2 Corinthians 5:21. (see also 1 Pe 2:22 and 1 Jn 3:25)
Compare this to 1 Samuel 2:2, Matthew 19:17, and Revelation 15:4 which all say that only God is sinless.
2.Omnipotence
“And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, ‘All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.’”
Matthew 28:18
“He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.”
Colossians 1:17
“For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.”
Philippians 3:20-21
“…and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood– and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father–to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen. ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, ‘who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.’”
Revelation 1:5-8
“…which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church.”
Ephesians 1:20-22.
Compare this to Scripture passages which teach that only God is omnipotent – Gen 17:1, Gen 8:14, Job 42:2, Ps 135:6, Dan 4:35, Eph 1:11
3.Omniscience
“But Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men”
John 2:24
“Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God.”
John 16:30
“…in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.”
Colossians 2:3
Compare this with Scripture’s teaching that omniscience is a strictly divine attribute – Ps 94:9, Ps 139:1-10, Ps 147:5, Prov 15:3, Prov 15:11, Isa 46:10, Mt 10:30, Heb 4:13, 1 Jn 3:20.
4.Omnipresence
“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”
Matthew 18:20. (Christ can only be with any and all assemblies if he is omnipresent)
“…teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Matthew 28:20
“To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours.”
1 Corinthians 1:2
“…which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.”
Ephesians 1:23. (R. C. Lenski notes that the Greek here means Christ fills “all that exists”)
Compare this with Scripture’s teaching that only God is omnipresent – Job 22:12-14, Ps 139:7-12, Jer 23:23-24, Acts 17:24-28

III.He Exercises Divine Prerogatives.
1.He is the Creator
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.”
John 1:1-4
“But of the Son He says,
YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.” And,
‘YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE
EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;
AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;
LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED
BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,
AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.’”
Hebrews 1:8-12
2.He is the Upholder of all Things
“He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.”
Colossians 1:17
“And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.”
Hebrews 1:3
3.He has the Right to Forgive Sins
“And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, ‘Son, your sins are forgiven.’ But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, ‘Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?’ Immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, said to them, “Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts? ‘Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, “Your sins are forgiven”; or to say, “Get up, and pick up your pallet and walk”? ‘But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins’–He said to the paralytic, ‘I say to you, get up, pick up your pallet and go home.’”
Mark 2:5-11
“Then He said to her, ‘Your sins have been forgiven.’”
Luke 7:48
4.He is to be the Judge of all Men
“’For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.’”
John 5:22-23
“Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”
2 Corinthians 5:9-10
“I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:”
2 Timothy 4:1. (also see Matthew 25:31-46)

IV.He is Worshipped
1.This worship is only to be given to God
“Then Jesus said to him, ‘Go, Satan! For it is written, “YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.”’”
Matthew 4:10
“I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, ‘Do not do that I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.’”
Revelation 22:8-9
“When Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter raised him up, saying, ‘Stand up; I too am just a man.’”
Acts 10:25-26
2.Christ accepts this worship
“And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, ‘You are certainly God’s Son!’”
Matthew 14:33
“While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven. And they, after worshiping Him, returned to Jerusalem with great joy”
Luke 24:51-52
3.Men and angels are commanded to worship him
“And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, ‘AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM.’”
Hebrews 1:6
“…so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.’”
John 5:23-24
“…so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth”
Philippians 2:10

 

[Daniel Marsh]

V.He is Called by Divine Names / Titles
1.Lord
Lord (Grk – kurios ) has a wide variety of meanings but there are good reasons for considering the New Testament denotation of Christ with this word to be a signifier of his deity. Kurios was frequently used in the Septuagint as a rendering of Adonai which was in turn used as a substitute for Yahweh. Though the apostles new of this usage of Kurios they still applied it intentionally to Christ. Paul’s epistles alone contain 275 usages of Kurios to denote Christ. Paul repeatedly speaks of Christ as the Lord. In 1 Corinthians 8:6 he says “There is but one Lord, Jesus Christ through whom all things came and through whom we live.” The Kind of Lordship Paul claims here for Christ goes beyond any of the merely human meanings of kurios. The fact that “No one can say, ‘Jesus is Lord’ except by the Holy Spirit” (1 Corinthians 12:3) indicates that a greater than human use is intended for kurios. It would require no such inspiration to say that Jesus is a man with honor or authority, but to confess his deity requires just such an inspiration. Oscar Cullman says the following about this usage of kurios:
Actually the passages which confer upon Jesus the title Kurios the name of God, are at least as important as those in which he is directly addressed as ‘God’ – and in some cases the former are even more important. We have seen that on the basis of the designation Kurios early Christianity does not hesitate to transfer everything the Old Testament says about God.
Usage of Kurios in New Testament times is also informative. The ptolemies and the Roman Emperors would allow the term to be applied to them only after they had been deified in their religions. Archeological discoveries at Oxyrhyncus confirm this. Revelation 19:16 refers to Christ as the “Lord of Lords.”
2.Son of God
There are many references to Christ as “The” Son of God in the New Testament. In the Synoptic Gospels this can be found in such passages as Mt 8:29, 14:33, 16:16&17; Mk 1:1, 14:61; Luke 1:35, and 4:41. In Mt 27:40-43, Mk 14:61-62, and Lk 22:70 Christ openly accepts this designation. In John’s Gospel we have incidents recorded in which Christ clearly says he is “the Son of God” (5:25, 10:36, 11:4). William Evans comments concerning the Son of God passages in the Gospels:
If when He called Himself “the Son of God” He did not mean more than that he was a son of God, why then did the high priest accuse Him of blasphemy when He claimed this title (Mt 26:61-63)? Does not Mark 12:6 – “Having yet therefore one son, his well beloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, ‘They will reverence my son,’” indicate a special sonship? The sonship of Christ is human and historical it is true; but it is more: it is transcendent, unique, solitary. That something unique lay in this title seem clear from John 5:18 – “The Jews sought the more to kill Him … because he … said … also that God was His own Father, making Himself equal with God.”
There are many enlightening passages relating to Christ as “the Son of God” in the epistles. One such passage is found in Romans 1:3-4:
“…concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord”
This passage contrasts the humanity and deity of Christ. He was a descendant of David according to humanity but was declared “the Son of God” with power in his resurrection. This use of “Son of God” is not mundane. It is an exalted usage. Other contexts in which Paul calls Jesus the “Son” are also informative. In 1 Co 1:13 Paul speaks of the “kingdom of the Son.” He lived his life “by faith in the Son of God” (Gal 2:20), preached the Son (2 Co 1:19), believed that we are being conformed “to the likeness of his Son” (Ro 8:29) and looked forward to the coming of the Son (1 Thess 1:10). From the totality of Scripture’s declarations about Christ as the Son, James Orr concludes as follows:
This title is one to which there can be no finite comparison or analogy. The oneness with God which it designates is not such a reflex influence of the divine thought and character as man and angels may attain, but identity of essence constituting him not God-like alone, but God. Others may be children of God in a moral sense; but this right of elemental nature none but He; He is herein the only Son; so little separate, so close to the inner divine life which He expresses, that He is in the bosom of the Father. This language denotes two natures homogeneous, entirely one, and both so essential to the Godhead that neither can be omitted from any truth you speak of it.
3.Only Begotten
“And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testified about Him and cried out, saying, ‘This was He of whom I said, “He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.”’ For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
John 1:14-18
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
John 3:16-18
“By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.”
1 John 4:9
Of particular interest are the verses which precede the first passage quoted (John 1:14-18):
“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”
- Source: John 1:12-13
In this passage John is describing those who will be born as sons of God through Christ. Nevertheless, in verses 14- 18 that follow John speaks of Christ as the “only begotten.” His status is unique among those who are children of God. He is the Son from eternity. Others may become sons in time. He is the son by nature. Others may become sons by adoption (Ro 8:15 NASB).
This title reinforces the unique sonship of Christ.
4.Savior
“Savior” frequently connotes deity in the Old Testament and in Greek culture. In the Old Testament God is given this title with Psalms and Isaiah containing the greatest concentration of these. Psalm 24:5 for example, says “He will receive a blessing from the Lord and vindication from God his Savior.”
The concepts of Lord, God, and Savior are bundled together in the Old Testament. The salvation this Savior will bring developed a theological meaning in the Old Testament. Salvation comes to represent not just deliverance from some kind of trouble, but a forgiveness of one’s sins and a personal change of character. God says “I will deliver them from all of their backslidings in which they have sinned” (Ezekiel 37:23). David prayed “Deliver me from blood guiltiness, O God, Thou God of my salvation” (Psalm 51:14).
The Semitic meaning of the name Jesus (Jeshua) naturally suggested a reference to the Old Testament title of Savior which is attributed to God. The Hebrew words for Savior are translated as “soter” in the Septuagint and “soter’ becomes the New Testament term for this same title God assumed in the Old Testament.
We must also consider the meaning of the Greek word for Savior (soter) since linguistic factors point to “Savior” as a Greek term. To call Jesus Savior in Hebrew one would simply repeat his name, saying “Jeshua Jeshua” since this name means Savior. Thus, calling Jesus Savior is a Greek communication informed by Hebrew theology.
“Soter” can and often does refer to deity in Greek culture. Asklepios was called a soter and soter was used to denote certain deities in the mystery cults. While Christ’s deity is different in nature from the Greek deities, this usage of “soter” in Greek culture demonstrates that it is the appropriate term for this divine title which is bestowed upon Christ.
The Hebrew and Greek uses of the term “Savior” applied to Christ reinforces the biblical teaching of his deity. Paul uses “Savior in reference to both the Father and the Son. In Titus 2:13 he speaks of “Our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.” While this verse has been translated “The great God and our Savior Jesus Christ” this does not seem to accurately represent the Greek construction which has the definite article before “God” and not before “Savior,” indicating that one person is being spoken of. The Greek construction has Paul calling Christ our God and Savior.
(The Jehovah’s Witness responded with some valid critique of my discussion of Christ as savior to which I responded as follows)
“Thanks for your critique of this point. I have added the following to my notes on this title:
‘This designation of “Savior” for Christ does not in itself prove his deity since humans are sometimes called “saviors” in the Old Testament and because as Savior, God at times uses non-divine, human instruments. Nevertheless, the overall picture painted by this designation harmonizes well with the clearly divine titles used for Christ.’
With reference to Christ as a rival to the Father – Trinitarians do not see any rivalry. Many passages in the OT which speak of the activity of Jehovah are fulfilled in the actions of Christ, and Trinitarians see the Father and the Son working in concert together with the Holy Spirit. There are many more passages in the NT which speak of Christ as our Savior that I did not include. Since both Father and Son are called our Savior, there are either two Saviors, there is one Savior God who is eternally expressed as three persons, or Christ is merely described as the instrument of the Father’s salvation. The third position is possible when considered apart from the rest of the Bible but I believe the second harmonizes better with the whole of Scripture. I will limit myself to more definitive points in the future in order to finish more quickly.”
5.Alpha and Omega
In Revelation 22:12-16 Christ says the following:
“’Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.’”
In Revelation 1:8 the Father says the following:
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Since there cannot be two Alpha and Omega’s these two passages point to the unique, dynamic unity of the Father and the Son that creatures do not participate in.
6.First and Last
In Revelation 1:17 John sees the glorified Christ and says:
“When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: ‘Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.’”
This title is used of Jehovah in Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, and 48:12. Isaiah 44:6 says:
“This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”
God associates this title with his deity in Isaiah and Revelation. Christ assumes this divine title in Revelation.
7.I Am
In John 8:57-59 Jesus says
“So the Jews said to Him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.”
“I Am” was the title God reserved for himself to be known by (Exodus 3:14). The Jews who heard him understood what Jesus was saying and sought to stone him for the blasphemy of calling himself God. It was not blasphemy for Jesus to make this statement, however, since he is God – the second person of the Trinity.
8.God
Many passages in the New Testament actually call Christ “God.”
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)
John says here that From eternity past (en archei en – imperfect tense, indicating the Word was before creation began – He was continuing to exist before the beginning of time) was the Logos (a term many Greek philosophers employed to refer to that which was by nature metaphysical or deity) and this Logos was “with” (pros – in close proximity, toward) God (as Chrysostom said, “Not in God but with God, as person with person, eternally”).
This Logos who was with God eternally was God (theos en ho logos) from this eternity past. Theos is placed first for emphasis and the definite article is omitted to emphasize quality rather than individuality. John is saying “The Word was deity.” To insert a definite article in the translation of this construction would be, as William Barclay says, “grammatically impossible.”
The Watchtower has cited trinitarian scholars such as A. T. Robertson and Julius Mantey in support of their translation, but they have misrepresented and even misquoted these scholars. The issues involved in the translation of this verse and the Watchtower’s misrepresentation of Greek scholars have been fully covered in such works as The Scholastic Dishonesty of the Watchtower by Michael Van Buskirk, and Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jesus Christ, and the Gospel of John by Robert M. Bowman Jr. Space will not permit a more thorough analysis of this matter here.
The Assessment of Greek Scholars on the New World Translation of John 1:1 (These Scholars insist that they are Trinitarians because of their understanding of the Greek text and one of these [Johnson] is neither a Christian nor a trinitarian):
Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar of the University of Glasgow, Scotland: “The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect is seen in their New testament translations. John 1:1 is translated: ‘…the Word was a god, ‘ a translation which is grammatically impossible…It is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest.”
Dr. F. F. Bruce of the University of Manchester, England: “Much is made by Arian amateur grammarians of the omission of the definite article with ‘God’ in the phrase ‘And the Word was God.’ Such an omission is common with nouns in a predicative construction…’a god’ would be totally indefensible.” [Barclay and Bruce are generally regarded as Great Britain's leading Greek scholars. Both have New Testament translations in print]
Dr. Ernest C. Colwell of the University of Chicago: “A definite predicate nominative has the article when it follows the verb; it does not have the article when it precedes the verb…this statement cannot be regarded as strange in the prologue of the gospel which reaches its climax in the confession of Thomas. ‘My Lord and my God.’ – John 20:28″
Dr. Charles L. Feinberg of La Mirada, California: “I can assure you that the rendering which the Jehovah’s Witnesses give John 1:1 is not held by any reputable Greek scholar.”
Dr. J. J. Griesbach (whose Greek text – not the English part – is used in the Emphatic Diaglott): “So numerous and clear are the arguments and testimonies of Scriptures in favor of the true Deity of Christ, that I can hardly imagine how, upon the admission of the Divine authority of Scripture, and with regard to fair rules of interpretation, this doctrine can by any man be called in doubt. Especially the passage, John 1:1-3, is so clear and so superior to all exception, that by no daring efforts of either commentators or critics can it be snatched out of the hands of the defenders of the truth.”
Dr. J. Johnson of California State University, Long Beach: “No justification whatsoever for translating THEOS EN HO LOGOS as ‘the Word was a god.’ There is no syntactical parallel to Acts 28:6 where there is a statement in indirect discourse; John 1:1 is direct….I am neither a Christian nor a Trinitarian.”
Dr. Julius Mantey, author of A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament ,”Well, as a backdrop, I was disturbed because they (Watchtower) had misquoted me in support of their translation.” (These words were excerpted from the tape, “Martin and Julius Mantey on The New World Translation”, Mantey is quoted on pages 1158-1159 of the Kingdom interlinear Translation)
Dr. Bruce M. Metzger, professor of New Testament at Princeton University, calls the NWT “a frightful mistranslation,” “Erroneous” and “pernicious” “reprehensible” “If the Jehovah’s Witnesses take this translation [John1:1] seriously, they are polytheists.” (Professor of New Testament Language and Literature)
Dr. Samuel J. Mikolaski of Zurich, Switzerland: “This anarthrous (used without the article) construction does not mean what the indefinite article ‘a’ means in English. It is monstrous to translate the phrase ‘the Word was a god.’”
Dr. Eugene A. Nida (head of Translations Department, American Bible Society): “With regard to John 1:1, there is of course a complication simply because the New World Translation was apparently done by persons who did not take seriously the syntax of the Greek.”
Dr. B. F. Wescott (whose Greek text – not the English part – is used in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation [Watchtower publication): "The predicate (God) stands emphatically first, as in IV.24. It is necessarily without the article...No idea of inferiority of nature is suggested by the form of expression, which simply affirms the true deity of the Word...in the third clause 'the Word' is declared to be 'God' and so included in the unity of the Godhead."

 

[Daniel Marsh]

More Verses
“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” John 1:18
“Thomas answered and said to Him, ‘My Lord and my God!’”
John 20:28
Notice that Thomas addresses the entirety of this statement to the risen Christ. Christ subsequently accepts this address without correcting Thomas.
“…whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.”
Romans 9:5 NASB
The RSV translates this verse
“To them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who is over all be blessed forever.”
Rather than placing God in apposition with Jesus, the RSV translators create a doxology to God at the end of the verse. Greek scholars cite a large number of reasons why this translation is not to be preferred and it therefore represents a minority opinion. Some of the reasons for favoring the majority view represented in the NASB include the following:
1.A doxology does not fit the context or the tone of the passage.
2.A doxology usually refers to the person just spoken of, who is Christ in this case.
3.A participle as used in this verse would be superfluous there if the concluding words are a doxology to the Father, but it is not superfluous if it refers to Christ as its antecedent.
4.Independent doxologies usually begin with the predicate nominative eulongetos, whereas in Romans 9:5 the subject stands at the beginning.
“…looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.”
Titus 2:13
Christ Jesus is here called our great God and Savior. The definite article’s placement before “God” indicates that one person is spoken of in this verse and thus vindicates the common translation as found in the NASB.

VI.Christ Lives in Us
Rather than develop my last point fully I will just summarize it quickly. I believe all of the references to Christ living in us, enabling, and empowering us are consistent with deity but inconsistent with the limitations of creatures. It would be blasphemy for all believers to say that Paul lives in them and that he is their life.

VII.Answers to Objections
1.“There may be many “gods” but only one almighty God.”
This is a position known as “henotheism,” which asserts that there are many gods, but only one chief deity. The Bible, however, is monotheistic. That is, it teaches that there is only one true God. All other “gods” are false.
“But the LORD is the true God;
He is the living God and the everlasting King
At His wrath the earth quakes,
And the nations cannot endure His indignation.
Jeremiah 10:10
“For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God”
1 Thessalonians 1:9
“For all the gods of the peoples are idols,
But the LORD made the heavens.”
Psalm 96:5
“Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.”
1 Corinthians 8:4
"You are my witnesses," declares the LORD,
"and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.
I, even I, am the LORD,
and apart from me there is no savior.
Isaiah 43:10-11
“Declare what is to be, present it—
let them take counsel together.
Who foretold this long ago,
who declared it from the distant past?
Was it not I, the LORD ?
And there is no God apart from me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none but me.
Turn to me and be saved,
all you ends of the earth;
for I am God, and there is no other.
Isaiah 45:21-22
Further notes on this: In John 10:35, Jesus is using a debating tactic to silence his critics. He is not teaching any kind of polytheism. Hebrews 2:5-8 quotes from the Septuagint version of Psalm 8, not from the Hebrew text. This was a common practice of the New Testament writers who were communicating with Greek audience. It is not an endorsement of the Septuagint over the Hebrew text. Furthermore, the context in Psalm 8 nowhere vindicates an interpretation asserting that angels are “gods.”
2.A 1957 Watchtower article claimed that Jesus “I Am’ statement in John 8:58 represents a use of the historical present. Some observations on this:
1.Even such a mistranslation as this would still point to Christ’s divine quality of preexistence.
2.The author of the article invented a new “rule” of Greek grammar asserting that when an aorist infinitive clause precedes a present tense verb the verb is to always be translated as an historical present. The very texts the article quote from refute this notion. Such usage is determined by context (annalistic or dramatic – neither in view in this passage). The Watchtower has backed away from this “rule” and now Watchtower spokesman Nelson Herle asserts that the eimi in John 8:58 is an example of the present of past action still in progress. The eimi in John 8:58 is a predicate absolute and thus cannot be translated as an expression of the present of past action still in progress. (something Herle refuses to admit).
3.“In John 14:28 Jesus says that the Father is greater than him. Doesn’t this mean Jesus is lower in nature than the father?”
Jesus’ calling his father “greater” (Meizon [from megas]) is a functional designation not an ontological one. Christ is indeed subordinate to the Father (Christ did nothing on his own initiative – the Father is even called the Son’s God) but he is equal in nature. Megas and meizon are consistently used this way throughout Greek literature and in the New Testament. The following passages are examples of one person or thing being functionally, but not ontologically greater than another:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.”
John 13:16
“For who is greater, the one who reclines at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at the table? But I am among you as the one who serves.
Luke 22:27
“Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.”
1 Corinthians 14:5
4.“In Isaiah 9:6 Jesus is called the ‘Mighty God.’ Doesn’t this mean he is not almighty?”
First, there is no reason to make such a logical deduction. Additionally, Jehovah is called the “Mighty God” in Isaiah 10:21. This faulty reasoning would conclude that Jehovah is not almighty.
5.“Doesn’t Philippians 2:6 indicate that Christ is not equal with the father?”
Quite to the contrary. The passive usage here as well as the overall context of the passage indicates that Christ, though he was equal with the Father, did not insist upon holding on to all of his divine prerogatives. Instead, he emptied himself of these (which were his by right) and assumed the lowly form of man in his incarnate state.
6.Colossians 1:18 and Revelation 3:14 call Christ the ‘beginning’ of creation. Doesn’t that deny his eternal preexistence and classify him as a created being?”
In these verses Christ is called the arche (translated “beginning”) of creation. This word was commonly used by the Greeks of the day to indicate supremacy of rank. An arche was a ruler. When Scripture calls Christ the arche over all creation it indicates his sovereign status. It does not indicate that he is part of creation. Indeed, the word as used can indicate precedence in time.
The Father and the Son are Distinct Persons Yet they are One
John 5:19-20, 31, 36-38; 6:37, 43; 7:16-18, 28-29, 33; 8:18, 28, 50 and many other passages illustrate the distinction between the Father and the Son. While Sabellian modalists maintain that there is no distinction between the two other than name or title, the Arian theology of the Watchtower already recognizes a distinction between these two persons (though denying their ontological unity). Therefore I will not comment on this further except to note that the Son is distinct and subordinate to father, yet he is one with the father. He asserts this oneness in John 10:10. When he made this claim the Jews picked up stones with which to kill him because they understood the theological implications of his statement.
Conclusion Regarding Christ
We have established that Christ possesses the qualities and properties of deity; he possesses divine attributes; he exercises divine prerogatives; he is worshipped; he is called by divine names and titles; and he is called God. I have used well over 100 Scripture passages to establish these things and I could have used more. Such overwhelming scriptural evidence should not be cast aside lightly. I find the scriptural evidence absolutely compelling. We have also established that the Father and the Son are two distinct persons revealed to be expressions of the one God. Hence, God is multi-personal.

The Holy Spirit is God
Scripture says he is eternal (Hebrews 9:14) omnipresent (Psam 139:7-10) and omniscient (1 Corinthians 2:10-11). In Acts 5:4 he is called God. Sometimes the “voice of God” in the Old Testament is said to have been the “voice of the Holy Spirit” in the New Testament. Compare Exodus 16:7 with Hebrews 3:7-9; and Isaiah 6:8-10 with Hebrews 3:7-9. More could be said on the Spirit’s deity.
The Holy Spirit is a Person
I.The masculine pronoun eikonos (translated as “he” “him”) is used to denote Him even when it has a neuter antecedent such as pneuma.
Commenting on this phenomenon in John 16:13-14 Millard Erickson says “Either John in reporting Jesus’ discourse made a grammatical error at this point (this is unlikely since we do not find any similar error elsewhere in the Gospel), or he deliberately chose to use the masculine to convey to convey to us the fact that Jesus is referring to a person not a thing. A similar reference is Ephesians 1:14, where in a relative clause modifying “Holy Spirit” the preferred textual reading is os “[who] is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it to the praise of his glory.”
Some passages in John 14-16 in which the NASB refers to the Holy Spirit as “he” or “him:”
“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.” (John 14:16-17)
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
John 14:26
“When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.”
John 15:26-27
“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.”
John 16:7-15

II.The Holy Spirit has distinctly personal characteristics.
He has his own mind (Romans 8:27). He searches (1 Corinthians 2:10-11). He has a will (1 Corinthians 12:11). He speaks (Acts 13:2, Revelation 2:7). He intercedes for believers (Romans 8:26). He works (Acts 20:28, 1 Corinthians 12:11). He can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). He can be sinned against (Matthew 12:31-32). He can be lied to (Acts 5:3).
No mere power or influence has a mind and will of its own, speaks, intercedes and works. A power or influence cannot be lied to, sinned against, or grieved. These are all distinct characteristics of a person.

III.The Scriptures contain meaningless redundancies if the Holy Spirit is not a person.
Romans 15:13, for example, speaks of the “power of the Holy Spirit.” Were he only a power, the verse would be speaking of the “power of the power.” In Acts 10:38 Jesus is said to have been anointed “With the Holy Spirit and with power.” If the Holy Spirit is not a person the verse is saying Jesus was anointed with power and power.

IV.Answers to Objections Regarding the Holy Spirit’s Personhood
1.“Impersonal symbols such as wind, oil, water, and fire are used to speak of the Spirit.”
These symbols do not preclude personality. Impersonal symbols such as door, light, and bread are used to describe Christ and no one debates his personality. Modern readers of the Bible should not have trouble understanding this concept since we still refer to individuals with impersonal metaphors. We call people such things as a rock, diamond in the rough, and a pain in the side. In so doing we have no difficulty maintaining the notion that they are persons.
2.“The word “spirit” is neuter.
This is a convention of Greek grammar not a theological manifesto. Throughout the Old Testament the Holy Spirit is pictured as the ruach of God, indicating that whenever God acts, he acts in cooperation with the person of the Spirit. Israelite understanding of the Spirit of God is relatively easy to discern as we observe the usages of ruach elohim and ruach Yahweh in the Old Testament. As we do this we find that the Israelites understood this Spirit to be the manifest presence of God actively involved in his creation. The basic meaning of ruach as “air in motion” contributes to this understanding. This meaning of ruach can be found in such passages as Gen. 3:8, 8:1; 1 Ki. 19:11; Job 8:2; Ps. 147:18; Prov. 25:14; Eccl. 1:6; Jer. 4:11; Eze. 1:4; and Zech. 2:6. When ruach is used in connection with elohim or Yahweh in the Old Testament the context is typically of something God does (Gen. 1:2; Jud. 3:10, 6:34; 1 Sam. 16:13; 1 Ki. 18:12; 1 Chron. 12:18; Isa. 48:16; Eze. 3:12, 11:24; Zech. 4:6). When the Spirit of God comes upon an Old Testament figure they are generally prompted to speak, build, or fight the Lord’s battles. In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit also gives life, strength, understanding, guidance and power. Pneuma is the Greek equivalent of ruach and is therefore used to denote the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. God has chosen this wind or breath metaphor to portray the Holy Spirit because it best pictures the active nature of his role. The fact that the word is grammatically neuter does not affect the New Testament’s teaching that the Holy Spirit is a person. We should also note in this context that the KJV mistranslation in Romans 8:16, 26 (“itself”) is corrected in subsequent translations.
The three persons of the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit are co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial.
I.Several Scripture passages link the three persons together as a unity of apparently essential equals:
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Matthew 28:19-20
Note that “name” is singular yet the persons are three. Baptizing “in the name” means baptizing “unto,” “with respect to,” and “in the authority of.” It would be blasphemy to suggest that we baptize unto, with respect to, and in the authority of any mere creature. The passage is consistent with the overall biblical revelation that these three divine persons who are one God are equals in substance and essence though distinct in personage and function.
“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.”
2 Corinthians 13:14
Jesus modeled the use of “God” as a reference to the Father and thus the apostles referred to the Father this way as well. Note however that Paul describes grace as coming from Christ and says our fellowship is with the Holy Spirit. Grace is a divine bestowment and our fellowship is with God. The interweaving of functions here can only make sense within a triune God.
After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”
Matthew 3:16-17
“And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”
Luke 24:49
The Son will send the person of the Holy Spirit who is the promise of the Father. This cohesive act of the three will result in the empowering of believers.
“But I have written very boldly to you on some points so as to remind you again, because of the grace that was given me from God, to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.”
Romans 15:15-16
“Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.”
- Source: 2 Corinthians 1:21-22
“But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
- Source: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.”
- Source: 1 Peter 1:1-2
The interaction of the three persons in the Gospel of John presents us with a pictorial declaration of the Trinity. Millard Erickson comments on this co-equal interweaving of persons and functions in John’s Gospel:
It is in the fourth Gospel that the strongest evidence of a coequal Trinity is to be found. The threefold formula appears again and again: 1:33-34; 14:16, 26; 16:13-15; 20:21-22 (cf. 1 John 4:2, 13-14). The interdynamics among the three persons comes through repeatedly, as George Hendry has observed. The Son is sent by the Father (14:24) and comes forth from him (16:28). The Spirit is given by the Father (14:16), sent from the Father(14:26), and proceeds from the Father (15:26). Yet the Son is closely involved in the coming of the Spirit: he prays for this coming (14:16); the Father sends the Spirit in the Son’s name (14:26); the Son will send the Spirit from the Father (15:26); the Son must go away so he can send the Spirit (16:7). The Spirit’s ministry is understood as a continuation and elaboration of that of the Son. He will bring to remembrance what the Son has said (14:26); he will bear witness to the Son (15:26); he will declare what he hears from the Son, thus glorifying the Son (16:13-14).

II.Answers to Objections regarding the Trinity.
1.Pagan Triads
Critics of the Trinity sometimes cite the triads of deities found in some pagan religions as evidence the doctrine is false. This attempt at guilt by association is faulty, though. The pagan triads are tritheistic rather than trinitarian. Trinitarianism is unique among world religions in teaching that God is a multi-personal unity. The pagan triads are a counterfeit of the biblical revelation of the Trinity. Furthermore, such triads are so far removed in time and space from the authors of the New Testament and the early church fathers that it is not credible to suggest that they were influenced by such things.
2.Math
Some observers are perplexed by the mathematics of the Trinity, pointing out that 1+1+1=3. This equation does not accurately represent the Trinity, however, since the three persons are a unique unity of a kind not found in creation. The dynamic nature of their relationship is more accurately represented by the equation 1×1x1=1.
3.Logic
The Watchtower sometimes claims that the doctrine of the Trinity should be rejected because the finite mind of man can not understand it. This grounds for rejection is selectively employed, however, since they acknowledge elsewhere that there are things about God that surpass our abilities to understand. After citing Psalm 90:2 as evidence for God’s not having a beginning, the Watchtower publication Reasoning From the Scriptures, on pages 148-149, says the following:
Is that reasonable? Our minds cannot fully comprehend it. But that is not a sound reason for rejecting it … Should we really expect to understand everything about a person who is so great that he could bring into existence the universe with all of its intricate design and stupendous size?
Certainly we should not limit God to the boundaries of our finite minds.
Conclusion Regarding the Trinity
The website of the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry concisely describes the means by which Christians conclude that God is triune:
Therefore, the doctrine of the Trinity is arrived at by looking at the whole of scripture, not in a single verse. It is the doctrine that there is only one God, not three, and that the one God exists in three persons: Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. An analogy would be time. Time is past, present, and future. But, there are not three times, only one.
I believe in the Trinity because Scripture reveals that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all God, and they are distinct persons. Since the Bible also teaches that there is only one God, we must find a way to describe this multi-personal unity. The term the Church has used to describe the Bible’s teaching about God is “Trinity.” Since the Bible’s unequivocal teaching about God is established by so large a quantity of passages, no one’s dislike of Scripture’s teaching nor anyone’s misuse of misinterpreted “proof texts” can assail such a sturdy and massive edifice. The doctrine of the Trinity stands as God’s clear revelation about himself.
Acknowledgements
Since I wrote all of the above as correspondence I did not cite each instance in which I was leaning to some extent on the research or thought of someone else’s work. Neither did I point out the extent to which other works may have influenced the shape which my presentation took. A great many works influenced my reasoning here but the following ones played a major role in the shape and content of the above correspondence:
William Evans, The Great Doctrines of the Bible
Millard Erickson, Christian Theology
Robert Bowman, Why You Should Believe in the Trinity
Robert Bowman, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jesus Christ, and the Gospel of John
Michael Van Buskirk, The Scholastic Dishonesty of the Watchtower

 

[spirit1st]

GOD made mankind in HIS IMAGE! HIS being is three parts as ours is!
The way I see it is! GOD thinks it !The WORD [jesus ]speaks it and the POWER [HOLY GHOST ]does it they are JUST one being as we are!
We are spirit ,soul and body!

JESUS is not less a part of GOD than the HOLY GHOST is!
All one being!
After all Moses called JESUS GOD and it WAS JESUS who led the Israelites out! They followed HIM!

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.


Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me



HE only CAME as a baby to be the PERFECT EXAMPLE for mankind

 

[RJ]

GOD made mankind in HIS IMAGE! HIS being is three parts as ours is!
The way I see it is! GOD thinks it !The WORD [jesus ]speaks it and the POWER [HOLY GHOST ]does it they are JUST one being as we are!
We are spirit ,soul and body!

JESUS is not less a part of GOD than the HOLY GHOST is!
All one being!
After all Moses called JESUS GOD and it WAS JESUS who led the Israelites out! They followed HIM!

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.


Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me



HE only CAME as a baby to be the PERFECT EXAMPLE for mankind

Amen!
Our soul, our body and His Spirit!

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life!

 

[Boanerges]

This is a nice thread. Well discussed and informative.

 

[sister]

Definitely!!

I do believe in the Trinity!!As Chad said..God cant die,he is Life he is the Creator and Jesus came to give us that Life and he couldnt be killed!!The grave couldnt hold him,death is not his nature,life is!!In and thru Him all things are made!!Believe Gods word,it is the Truth!!God cannot lie either for he is all Truth,all Knowing!!Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil also!!He put him to shame!!I know my life has been truly Blessed..and re-born since Ive decided to follow Jesus!!Keep your heart open my friend!!And let Jesus speak to your heart!!Dont think with your head..it doesnt get you anywhere but be lead by the Holy Spirit!!He is the teacher!!Ask him to open your eyes to the Truth!!GBU and praying for you!!Love,Sister!!