The war within

[B-A-C]

The Bible talks about this war inside of us. Flesh vs the Spirit.
It's a theme all through the new testament.

Matt 26:41; "Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."
Mark 14:38; "Keep watching and praying that you may not come into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."

Any of us who have been Christians for a while realize the truth of Jesus's statement here. The flesh "is" weak.

Romans 8 speaks to this.

Rom 8:5; For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6; For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
Rom 8:7; because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
Rom 8:8; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9; However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
Rom 8:10; If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11; But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Rom 8:12; So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
Rom 8:13; for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 8:14; For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

It's a simple question. Are you living according to the Spirit? .. or according to your flesh?

Gal 5:17; For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
Gal 5:18; But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

The Spirit and the flesh are always in opposition to each other. Our flesh seems to be important to us.
But Jesus didn't die to save your flesh. He died to save your soul. This opposition... this war....
It doesn't end when we become Christians. In fact that's when the war begins.

Gal 5:25; If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
Gal 5:26; Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

For those who have conquered the flesh... they shouldn't be boastful or challenging others.

Gal 6:1; Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.

Sometimes Christians sin. But we should be looking to restore them if they repent.

Gal 6:8; For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Gal 6:9; Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

Even when we do sin. It shouldn't be a lifestyle. Sin shouldn't be how you live everyday.
We should repent. We should be striving to live in the Spirit, to be led by the Spirit.
Yet there are those who call themselves Christians... who are perfectly content being led by the flesh.

1 Pet 4:6; For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.

 

[At Peace]

The Bible talks about this war inside of us. Flesh vs the Spirit.
It's a theme all through the new testament.

Matt 26:41; "Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."
Mark 14:38; "Keep watching and praying that you may not come into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."

Any of us who have been Christians for a while realize the truth of Jesus's statement here. The flesh "is" weak.

Romans 8 speaks to this.

Rom 8:5; For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6; For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
Rom 8:7; because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
Rom 8:8; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9; However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
Rom 8:10; If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11; But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Rom 8:12; So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
Rom 8:13; for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 8:14; For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

It's a simple question. Are you living according to the Spirit? .. or according to your flesh?

Gal 5:17; For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
Gal 5:18; But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

The Spirit and the flesh are always in opposition to each other. Our flesh seems to be important to us.
But Jesus didn't die to save your flesh. He died to save your soul. This opposition... this war....
It doesn't end when we become Christians. In fact that's when the war begins.

Gal 5:25; If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
Gal 5:26; Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

For those who have conquered the flesh... they shouldn't be boastful or challenging others.

Gal 6:1; Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.

Sometimes Christians sin. But we should be looking to restore them if they repent.

Gal 6:8; For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Gal 6:9; Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

Even when we do sin. It shouldn't be a lifestyle. Sin shouldn't be how you live everyday.
We should repent. We should be striving to live in the Spirit, to be led by the Spirit.
Yet there are those who call themselves Christians... who are perfectly content being led by the flesh.

1 Pet 4:6; For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.

Christians don't commit sin.
They walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
Even after citing Romans 8, you can't differentiate holy from unholy?

 

[amadeus2]

@B-A-C
James also wrote of this war within in these verses:

"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:1-3

These battles are the ones that must be won in order to be an overcomer. Jesus opened the Way and the means with which we are to fight and win those battles within us have been provided:

"Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" Eph 6:13-17

And why must a person be an overcomer?

"... To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

So then if we do not overcome and then eat of the Tree of Life, how are we to live for ever? Isn't that what Adam and Eve lost... access to the right Tree?

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:" Gen 3:22

Jesus was an overcomer, but while the Way has been opened we are not until we have overcome as He overcame. That means if we do not overcome we be unable to eat of the Tree of Life and live forever.

 

[At Peace]

@B-A-C
Jesus was an overcomer, but while the Way has been opened we are not, until we have overcome as He overcame. That means if we do not overcome we be unable to eat of the Tree of Life and live forever.

Thank God for having given us the way to overcome.

 

[Br. Bear]

@B-A-C
James also wrote of this war within in these verses:

"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:1-3

These battles are the ones that must be won in order to be an overcomer. Jesus opened the Way and the means with which we are to fight and win those battles within us have been provided:

"Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" Eph 6:13-17

And why must a person be an overcomer?

"... To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

So then if we do not overcome and then eat of the Tree of Life, how are we to live for ever? Isn't that what Adam and Eve lost... access to the right Tree?

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:" Gen 3:22

Jesus was an overcomer, but while the Way has been opened we are not until we have overcome as He overcame. That means if we do not overcome we be unable to eat of the Tree of Life and live forever.

Thank God for having given us the way to overcome.

Greetings,

what was the result for Adam when he believed not the LORD?

Prior to that he was able to partake of the Tree of Life.

@amadeus2
could you please explain a little about the temptation that Adam did not overcome and that which Jesus did and as it stands we, if we are to once again partake of the Tree of Life, what it is we must overcome?

================
What in the end of it all will give us the right to eat of that Tree?


Bless you ....><>

and B-A-C , thank you for yet another interesting thread ....><>

 

[amadeus2]

Greetings,

what was the result for Adam when he believed not the LORD?

Prior to that he was able to partake of the Tree of Life.

@amadeus2
could you please explain a little about the temptation that Adam did not overcome and that which Jesus did and as it stands we, if we are to once again partake of the Tree of Life, what it is we must overcome?

================
What in the end of it all will give us the right to eat of that Tree?


Bless you ....><>

and B-A-C , thank you for yet another interesting thread ....><>

When Adam disobeyed God he died along with Eve. They and all of their offspring, which means everyone of us remained dead to God until Jesus paid the price that no other man could pay. To Live Forever a person had to be able to eat of the other tree, the Tree of Life, but no dead man could enter into through the Gate/Door in order to partake. God saw to that:

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Gen 3:22-24

So what is it that each of needs to overcome in order to be allowed to enter in and partake of the Tree of Life? I see it in the following verses:

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." I John 2:16-17

These three things, lust of flesh, lust of eyes and pride of life are in the world, but this does not really mean lying around planet Earth for anyone to take hold of... The world is what God gave to each of us, a vessel containing what we are. We spoiled that vessel or I should say our first natural father spoiled it and it remained so until Jesus made it possible to clean it up and fill it with the things of God. Jesus paid the price for sins, but He did not remove from each of us those three things which when followed lead us back into sin:
the
lust of the flesh
, and the
lust of the eyes
, and the
pride of life.



Those three things must be overcome by each of us within ourselves. When we were dead and without God we could not. So why was it that Jesus came?


"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10



In order to pay the price for us Jesus needed to overcome those three things within Himself. He was without sin, but within Him were those things which lead us to sin. He overcame them as we need to overcome them:



"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33



By looking around us it is very apparently that Jesus did not overcome the evil of planet Earth. He overcame those three things in Himself so that he could then pay the price on the cross for us. The price was the death of a Living man. Jesus was the only one who qualified.



All of the world [or worlds] of men will pass away, but what will be left? That which is Alive in the eyes of God. If we do not overcome, then we will nothing left of us that can and will endure forever.



How can we overcome? By the power of the Holy Ghost. Jesus cleaned us out, but now we must finish the job in ourselves by overcoming all of those ways of men which when followed will lead us back to sin. If we do not what will happen to us?



"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45

 

[At Peace]

.... but He did not remove from each of us those three things which when followed lead us back into sin:
the
lust of the flesh
, and the
lust of the eyes
, and the
pride of life.
Those three things must be overcome by each of us within ourselves. When we were dead and without God we could not. So why was it that Jesus came?

Jesus did remove those three things.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."(Gal 5:24)
By our taking part in Jesus' crucifixion, our old sinful self is killed, along with it's affections and lusts.
Thanks be to God for freedom from lusts!

 

[amadeus2]

Jesus did remove those three things.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."(Gal 5:24)
By our taking part in Jesus' crucifixion, our old sinful self is killed, along with it's affections and lusts.
Thanks be to God for freedom from lusts!

Read more carefully. What is the subject of "have crucified"?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings amadeus2,

and thank you.

Would you mind connecting the temptation(s) that Jesus our Lord overcame in the wilderness to what you shared and explained, please?

I think that would help to make what you presented clearer and would complete it.

Going on what you presented, if we, too, by His grace we are both enabled and can be effectual in doing so, meaning that it is only through the provision of the Lord that we can be overcomers, will overcome then I dare to say, that if we do overcome we will walk unhindered in our service to and with the Lord.

As with Jesus, the devil left Him for a season so it may well be the same for us, but if we overcome and hold fast to that victory (the overcoming) until the end, the devil will have no strings attached or chains or any such like and all we do will be in his face like fly spray up his nose!

Let us praise the Lord!


Bless you ....><>

 

[amadeus2]

Greetings amadeus2,

and thank you.

Would you mind connecting the temptation(s) that Jesus our Lord overcame in the wilderness to what you shared and explained, please?

I think that would help to make what you presented clearer and would complete it.

Going on what you presented, if we, too, by His grace we are both enabled and can be effectual in doing so, meaning that it is only through the provision of the Lord that we can be overcomers, will overcome then I dare to say, that if we do overcome we will walk unhindered in our service to and with the Lord.

As with Jesus, the devil left Him for a season so it may well be the same for us, but if we overcome and hold fast to that victory (the overcoming) until the end, the devil will have no strings attached or chains or any such like and all we do will be in his face like fly spray up his nose!

Let us praise the Lord!


Bless you ....><>

"And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matt 4:2-4

Bread? Men are very often with filling their bellies and then when they have the bare the necessities they want more. They are not content with the simple fare that keeps their carnal bodies alive:

"Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." John 6:26-27

They strive to move beyond the simple fare that feeds the flesh and want also the steak and lobster with a glass of fine wine. But it is all vanity as Solomon described it and will remain so until and if they are able to eat of the real bread and drink of real blood:

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed." John 6:53-55

Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Matt 4:5-7

Again the tempter has set before Jesus the things of the flesh, the carnal things which do so attract a man, every man including Jesus. We concern ourselves much over the health of our bodies and the time that is ours and would if we could make the health better and the time longer. That is the way of man, but we see what Jesus said: "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God". We are to be like Him, are we not [I John 3:2] ? So then as the apostle Paul wrote it:

"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content." Phil 4:11

The point is not that we should not care for our carnal bodies. They are after all part of our stewardship, but let remember always to put first things first. The first things in the eyes of God are not the steak and lobster or even simple fare of bread and water. The first things are not the ballgame on TV nor is it even the best boy or girlfriend we have a date with later... It is not our parents or our spouse or our children.

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:33-34

"Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Matt 4:8-10

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:15-16

Jesus overcame that world within Himself as a man subject to the same temptations to which we are subject:

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Heb 4:15

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

Yes, Jesus overcame all of the temptations of His world of flesh, and God has provided through Jesus and the Holy Ghost all that we need so that we may do what He did. We must also overcome the world. God is always there to help us, but the job is ours to do.

 

[B-A-C]

Going on what you presented, if we, too, by His grace we are both enabled and can be effectual in doing so, meaning that it is only through the provision of the Lord that we can be overcomers, will overcome then I dare to say, that if we do overcome we will walk unhindered in our service to and with the Lord.

I am sometimes concerned with the "matter of factness" you make these statements. Almost as if it an off-hand after-thought.
Oh... everyone knows it will happen.

I don't see that in the Bible anywhere. We cannot overcome without Jesus/The Holy Spirit. No argument there.
But they won't overcome these things alone without any effort on our part. Make no mistake.

 

[At Peace]

Read more carefully. What is the subject of "have crucified"?

The bible says "...the flesh, with the affections and lusts". (Gal 5:24)

Without the "flesh's" input on our decision making, it is a lot easier to resist temptations.
Thanks be to God!

 

[B-A-C]

Without the "flesh's" input on our decision making, it is a lot easier to resist temptations.
Thanks be to God!

It's also not necessary to eat and breathe with without the flesh. I assume you do neither?

 

[Br. Bear]

I am sometimes concerned with the "matter of factness" you make these statements. Almost as if it an off-hand after-thought.

Greetings B-A-C,

Forgive me please as i tend to get a lot of inspiration from you. Your reply appears a little confused, if you don't mind me saying.
I think that Jesus put a little effort in and the suggestions presented so far appear to be saying that we need to do likewise, except we have not as yet gone so far as to say anything about resisting unto blood, have we?

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Hebrews 12:4


Bless you ....><>

 

[amadeus2]

The bible says "...the flesh, with the affections and lusts". (Gal 5:24)

Without the "flesh's" input on our decision making, it is a lot easier to resist temptations.
Thanks be to God!

Even so! But the flesh will have its say in our decisions until it is finally and completely overcome. Some may do it quickly and some over a longer period of time and some will not ever do it.

 

[At Peace]

It's also not necessary to eat and breathe with without the flesh. I assume you do neither?

"I" am dead and my life is "hid with Christ in God". (Col 3:3)
The vessel Christ uses on earth breathes and eats.

The previous mentioning of "flesh" refers to the mind, not the skin.
My mind-heart have been "circumcised with the circumcision made without hands." (Col 2:11)
I walk in the Spirit now...thanks be to God.

 

[At Peace]

Even so! But the flesh will have its say in our decisions until it is finally and completely overcome. Some may do it quickly and some over a longer period of time and some will not ever do it.

Can your hand reach into an unattended cash-register and steal money...without your mind condoning it?
Can your body commit adultery without your mind condoning it?
Can you pull a trigger without your mind having the final say on the matter?
Your skin can NOT cause you to sin.
It is the mind that must be renewed.

Have you ever fasted?
It is a good way for the mind to show it's dominance over the skin.

 

[amadeus2]

Can your hand reach into an unattended cash-register and steal money...without your mind condoning it?
Can your body commit adultery without your mind condoning it?
Can you pull a trigger without your mind having the final say on the matter?
Your skin can NOT cause you to sin.
It is the mind that must be renewed.

Have you ever fasted?
It is a good way for the mind to show it's dominance over the skin.

I was not talking about the skin. We are talking about the same thing. You speak especially of the desired end result. Are all those who don't get there immediately upon receipt of the Holy Ghost without hope?

But, our limit is not God but ourselves. If we continue to feed the old man at all we at the very least delay God's work in us. Recall the old saying : "Garbage in; garbage out". And then again: "We are what we eat". Some people continue to eat too often to much junk food while some people consume the Word and drink regularly the Holy Spirit:

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed." John 6:53-55

 

[At Peace]

I was not talking about the skin. We are talking about the same thing. You speak especially of the desired end result. Are all those who don't get there immediately upon receipt of the Holy Ghost without hope?

No, as a true repentance from sin is available till Christ returns.
On the other hand though, nobody gets the Holy Ghost without repentance from sin.

[/QUOTE]But, our limit is not God but ourselves. If we continue to feed the old man at all we at the very least delay God's work in us. [/QUOTE]
Those who "feed the old man" have not been baptized into Christ's death.
They have not been reborn as a new creature.

 

[KingJ]

Have you ever fasted?
It is a good way for the mind to show it's dominance over the skin.

Where in scripture do you see fasting relating to mind and skin? It is spirit and flesh Rom 8:13. Spirit vs mind / skin.

If I planned to fast for forty days and only succeed in fasting for two thirds of one day, have I failed at fasting? Does my spirit not have victory over my flesh?