The war within

[KingJ]

Gal 5:25; If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
Gal 5:26; Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

For those who have conquered the flesh... they shouldn't be boastful or challenging others.

I have isolated this because I would like to know how @At Peace responds to it.

This is basically saying that every-time we are condemned as opposed to exhorted and perhaps disciplined (Matt 18), the person doing such is being boastful and failing at / in need of better self judgment. IE Sinning. Ironic :wink:.

 

[Bendito]

Christians don't commit sin.
They walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
Even after citing Romans 8, you can't differentiate holy from unholy?

Don't you wish this were true? Christians slip all the time....We do not sin habitually, but we do slip...Only pride would say we NEVER slip. And pride is a sin. Don't you agree?

 

[Bendito]

Mr Bear said.."Going on what you presented, if we, too, by His grace we are both enabled and can be effectual in doing so, meaning that it is only through the provision of the Lord that we can be overcomers, will overcome then I dare to say, that if we do overcome we will walk unhindered in our service to and with the Lord."

Ha!! Grace....Gods empowering PRESENCE!

 

[KingJ]

I guess we can't fault the fact that @At Peace has provoked us to properly judge ourselves. Defend our faith. Work out our salvation in fear and trembling Phil 2:12. ''The War Within'' is a fitting title to this thread.

 

[amadeus2]

No, as a true repentance from sin is available till Christ returns.
On the other hand though, nobody gets the Holy Ghost without repentance from sin.

Those who "feed the old man" have not been baptized into Christ's death.
They have not been reborn as a new creature.

Are you right or wrong or is this semantics? Confusion still exists even in believers but the Door remains open. One day hopefully you will learn that you may sometimes be wrong even though you believe of course that you are right as we all usually believe that we are. Is there not always room to grow?

 

[amadeus2]

The means to overcome is the Word of God living in us. We may read the scriptures daily and even memorize them and still not have the Word of God Alive in us. This is why we need to Holy Spirit also in us working, working to kill what remains of the old man and his temptations. As we eat his flesh [the scriptures] and drink his blood [the Holy Spirit] the scriptures will be quickened as needed [God alone determines "need"] and we will overcome day by day until we have overcome all that stands between us and God. When a person quenches the Holy Spirit in himself, he stops the work of the Holy Spirit. If he does this too often eventually he will run out of time and there will be no more room for repentance. How patient is our God? How much time has He given to each of us?

 

[At Peace]

Where in scripture do you see fasting relating to mind and skin? It is spirit and flesh Rom 8:13. Spirit vs mind / skin.

Thanks for replying KingJ.
Frankly, I feel Jesus' forty day "deny the flesh" session illustrates the mind over matter example perfectly.
In Rom 8:13, "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."... the flesh and the body are used as synonyms.
(BTW, I believe the word "mortify" means..."keep dead", in this context.)
The conquering Spirit, (in this case), is manifested by the new mind given by God.
It is written..."For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ." (1 Cor 2:16)

If I planned to fast for forty days and only succeed in fasting for two thirds of one day, have I failed at fasting? Does my spirit not have victory over my flesh?

I'm going to respond with a "no".
Sometimes unexpected events will cut a fast short.
You were successful for 2/3 of a day. Rejoice!
You would have, however, failed to keep a vow.
That isn't a sin, per se, but you should be less attentive to a "plan" and rejoice in the victory over the needs of the skin-flesh every successful minute, instead of berating yourself because of a plan.

Fasting is a wonderful opportunity to get closer to God and farther from the world.
Even if it is for just one meal, you show yourself again "in control" of the flesh.
It is as subject to you, as you are to the Lord.,

 

[At Peace]

Are you right or wrong or is this semantics?

Right or wrong about what?

Confusion still exists even in believers but the Door remains open?

I think you are referring to people in whom "the flesh will have it's way" from post #15
If the flesh still rules, they are not yet walking in the Spirit.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Gal 5:24-25)
People who haven't yet crucified the flesh are not Christ's.

One day hopefully you will learn that you may sometimes be wrong even though you believe of course that you are right as we all usually believe that we are. Is there not always room to grow?

Thank God we have scripture to keep us well founded in Christ.
We should all be praying everyday for growth in grace and knowledge.

The means to overcome is the Word of God living in us.

Then you must agree that the reason for NOT overcoming is that the Word of God is NOT living in us.

 

[KingJ]

The conquering Spirit, (in this case), is manifested by the new mind given by God.
It is written..."For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ." (1 Cor 2:16)

It is a rhetorical statement. We do not literally have His mind. Having the mind of Christ equates to us now being more sensitive to what pleases and displeases God. Example: Putting others before ourselves. Praying often.

Both, prayer and putting others before ourselves requires us putting the flesh under. The mind of Christ was able to commit to praying late into the evening. Are you proposing that you will not be like those disciples that fell asleep? The mind of Christ was able to put the flesh under when it was sweating blood before the cross, when He said 'Your will be done''. The mind of Christ was able to perfectly put others before Himself. Can we say the same?

For Jesus / God it is a case of mind / spirit VS flesh. For us it is not. God is perfect we are not. Our mind is part of the problem / work in progress. It is separate from flesh, but it is not perfect like our spirit. Again, we are not a god. Please understand that this is what you are espousing. Which is why I have to ask, as I have asked many times, what evidence is there of your mind being perfect as God's is? Is it literally only the belief that you tell yourself you do not think immoral thoughts? Is that the height and depth of your cross examination? Your comparison to the perfect state of the mind of Christ? You need to dig further / grasp more. We, the onlookers, will grasp perfection when we see it. Works. Perfect works are evidence of perfection. Not talk. Not trying to be ugly, or put you on the spot. These are just statements of fact.

You would have, however, failed to keep a vow. That isn't a sin, per se, but you should be less attentive to a "plan" and rejoice in the victory over the needs of the skin-flesh every successful minute, instead of berating yourself because of a plan.

What if I see someone drowning, but instead of rushing to their aid, I stop for a Big Mac. They then die. Is that a sin?

 

[B-A-C]

Christians don't commit sin.

And yet the Bible says they can and do sometimes. Even when you are given several scriptures
that show this, you persist.

Gal 6:1; Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.

Matt 6:12; 'And forgive us our sins, as we also have forgiven those who have sinned against us.

Matt 18:15; "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

Luke 17:3; "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

1 Cor 8:12; And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.

1 Cor 3:1; And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
1 Cor 3:3; for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

Why are they fleshly? Because there is strife (and jealousy) among them.

Rom 7:17; So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

The word "now" is present tense, not past tense.

Peter also sinned after Jesus ascended.

Gal 2:11; But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
Gal 2:12; For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.

We shouldn't live in sin by any means. This isn't a license to sin (as some take it). But if we do sin....

1 Jn 2:1; My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

 

[amadeus2]

Then you must agree that the reason for NOT overcoming is that the Word of God is NOT living in us.

The reason for not overcoming once we have received the Holy Spirit in us is that we quench that same Holy Spirit hindering or stopping the necessary work of killing or destroying the temptations that lead us to sin again. Everyone who has received the Holy Spirit has overcome some things, but until we have completely overcome every besetting sin and temptation we may still stumble yet again. Receiving the Holy Spirit for many [or even all?] is only the beginning of the work that God wants to do in each of us. Only when it is all done may we qualify for the rewards due to an overcome as per Revelation chapters 2 and 3.

 

[At Peace]

It is a rhetorical statement. We do not literally have His mind. Having the mind of Christ equates to us now being more sensitive to what pleases and displeases God. Example: Putting others before ourselves. Praying often.

I'm sorry you feel that way.
I rejoice in the God given ability to see things as Jesus sees them.

Both, prayer and putting others before ourselves requires us putting the flesh under. The mind of Christ was able to commit to praying late into the evening. Are you proposing that you will not be like those disciples that fell asleep? The mind of Christ was able to put the flesh under when it was sweating blood before the cross, when He said 'Your will be done''. The mind of Christ was able to perfectly put others before Himself. Can we say the same?

Though you hold to the belief that we are not "like Christ", I do not.
It is written..."Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

For Jesus / God it is a case of mind / spirit VS flesh. For us it is not. God is perfect we are not. Our mind is part of the problem / work in progress. It is separate from flesh, but it is not perfect like our spirit. Again, we are not a god. Please understand that this is what you are espousing. Which is why I have to ask, as I have asked many times, what evidence is there of your mind being perfect as God's is? Is it literally only the belief that you tell yourself you do not think immoral thoughts? Is that the height and depth of your cross examination? Your comparison to the perfect state of the mind of Christ? You need to dig further / grasp more. We, the onlookers, will grasp perfection when we see it. Works. Perfect works are evidence of perfection. Not talk. Not trying to be ugly, or put you on the spot. These are just statements of fact.

As Jesus once quoted from Psalms, (Ps 82:6)..."Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" ((John 10:34)
That is a statement of fact.

What if I see someone drowning, but instead of rushing to their aid, I stop for a Big Mac. They then die. Is that a sin?

Yes, it is sin: as you didn't love your brother as you loved yourself.
I thank and bless God for the results of rebirth from Godly seed. (1 Peter 1:23)
Seed incapable of bringing forth evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)
I was once of Adamic seed, but by God's grace and power have been transformed into something of use to Him.
This grace and mercy is available to all who will submit to God.

 

[At Peace]

And yet the Bible says they can and do sometimes. Even when you are given several scriptures
that show this, you persist.;

They "can", but they can't call themselves Christian anymore.
They cannot say they are born of God.
It is written..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)
I am sorrowed that you have taken exhortations not to sin, and advocacy before God, and turned it into self condemnation.
Repentance from sin and baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins; (plus our "immersion" into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection), is there for the taking...thanks be to God.

 

[At Peace]

The reason for not overcoming once we have received the Holy Spirit in us is that we quench that same Holy Spirit hindering or stopping the necessary work of killing or destroying the temptations that lead us to sin again. Everyone who has received the Holy Spirit has overcome some things, but until we have completely overcome every besetting sin and temptation we may still stumble yet again. Receiving the Holy Spirit for many [or even all?] is only the beginning of the work that God wants to do in each of us. Only when it is all done may we qualify for the rewards due to an overcome as per Revelation chapters 2 and 3.

What you imply is that grape vines CAN bring forth figs.
If men will kill the old man and his Adamic nature, and be reborn of Godly, incorruptible seed, he will no longer bring forth Adamic fruit.

 

[B-A-C]

It is written..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)

I will take the weight over a dozen verses against one badly interpreted one. This is why you should never build a doctrine on one single verse.

 

[At Peace]

I will take the weight over a dozen verses against one badly interpreted one. This is why you should never build a doctrine on one single verse.

So you are saying that "grape vines can bring forth figs".
That seeds can bring forth fruit not endemic to it's progenitor.
I can't agree.

Godly seed cannot bring forth wickedness.
Some men are reborn of Godly seed.
They have crucified the seed of Adam: the flesh with it's affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)

 

[At Peace]

I have isolated this because I would like to know how @At Peace responds to it.

This is basically saying that every-time we are condemned as opposed to exhorted and perhaps disciplined (Matt 18), the person doing such is being boastful and failing at / in need of better self judgment. IE Sinning. Ironic :wink:.

How do you justify your post in light of the exhortations to... "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" ((1 Peter 3:15)
If I can't defend my hope, or laud the Lord whose death and resurrection accomplished what it set forth to do, without being labeled as 'boastful', then I will allow it to happen.
Call me whatever you want, but don't forget the exhortations I, and others, deliver.
If you continue to serve sin...you will perish..
A way has been offered by God for us to "cease from sin".
Take it or leave it.

I preach freedom from sin, and you call that preaching "sin".
"How ironic"?

 

[At Peace]

Don't you wish this were true? Christians slip all the time....We do not sin habitually, but we do slip...Only pride would say we NEVER slip. And pride is a sin. Don't you agree?

I know it is true.
If one "slips all the time", it is habitual.
Why not "resist the devil and he will flee from you", (James 4:7), all the time?

Oh how I wish you could know the joy of oneness with God and His Son Jesus Christ.
Sin separates man from that joy.
Jesus provided the way to join Him in conquest of sin.

 

[Br. Bear]

Oh how I wish you could know the joy of oneness with God and His Son Jesus Christ.
Sin separates man from that joy.
Jesus provided the way to join Him in conquest of sin.

If I can't defend my hope, or laud the Lord whose death and resurrection accomplished what it set forth to do, without being labeled as 'boastful', then I will allow it to happen.
Call me whatever you want, but don't forget the exhortations I, and others, deliver.
If you continue to serve sin...you will perish..
A way has been offered by God for us to "cease from sin".

Repentance from sin and baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins; (plus our "immersion" into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection), is there for the taking...thanks be to God.

This grace and mercy is available to all who will submit to God.

@At Peace
thank you for reminding me.
Sin does indeed separate.



BUT, praise the LORD!!!

He has made a Way... and that Way is His beloved Son....
such love He loved us with!!!

Praise the LORD... all ye, His saints... Praise ye the LORD!!!


Bless you ....><>

 

[KingJ]

How do you justify your post in light of the exhortations to... "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" ((1 Peter 3:15)
If I can't defend my hope, or laud the Lord whose death and resurrection accomplished what it set forth to do, without being labeled as 'boastful', then I will allow it to happen.
Call me whatever you want, but don't forget the exhortations I, and others, deliver.
If you continue to serve sin...you will perish..
A way has been offered by God for us to "cease from sin".
Take it or leave it.

I preach freedom from sin, and you call that preaching "sin".
"How ironic"?

You don't believe in OSAS, so as that scripture I quoted highlights, I have this against you:

Stop boasting that you are perfect and keep yourself saved.

Stop running down the salvation of others because they are not as perfect as you.

Stop saying you are a god, the devil did that.

Stop saying you are perfect and show us the evidence of it. All anyone has seen / heard of you is internet banter, pride and self righteousness. If you were a perfect person that God says as He did to David ''there is a man I can use for anything'', we would know you before your posts on TJ.

Stop trolling everyone's threads. The A-Z of your contribution in your last 100 posts has been ''I am perfect, only perfect people go to heaven''. Open ONE thread and let everyone know that. Trolling is pride / sin / harassment.