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"They're in a better place"

Scripture please, And what is the problem with judging

You need scripture to tell you that having all the facts before you Judge is good thing?? Yea like I said before not a good idea to Judge

HOw about

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

Matthew 7:1
“Judge not, that you be not judged.

Romans 14:4
Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Romans 16:17-18
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

I hope these help you understand how I draw my conclusion about Judging others while here on earth. As far as having all the facts that just comes from common sense and since its impossible to know if you have all the facts I try to judge not, although I fall short sometimes.
 
Why do people seem to think that everyone that dies goes directly to Heaven in an instand?

For the same reason that churches fill up when a calamity of great proportions happens. The fear they have, makes them seek comfort wherever they can find it. So as Sister Ophel stated. False hope is better then no hope at all.

However, even the unlearned in a lot of cases have seen in the movies or heard about the words our Lord said to the dying thief on the cross.

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:43

The use of Paradise is only used twice more and they are as follows:

How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 2 Corinthians 12:4

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Revelation 2:7

Was the thief the exception? Is Paradise what one could call a place separate from Heaven or a specific location in Heaven?

Sorry if I haven't answered your question, and have probably given you more of them in replying this little bit.
Thanks for the thread.
YBIC
C4E
<><
 
Scriptures please...

Do you refute Paul when He said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord? What about Jesus who says He will never leave us or forsake us? What about the passage that declares that nothing shall separate us?

Death doesn't separate us. We will never die. Our spirits do not go anywhere but to God, and that renders our bodies lifeless.
 
Do you refute Paul when He said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord? What about Jesus who says He will never leave us or forsake us? What about the passage that declares that nothing shall separate us?

Death doesn't separate us. We will never die. Our spirits do not go anywhere but to God, and that renders our bodies lifeless.

Thank you for the wisdom @Ophel- I guess I am having a hard time when it comes to explaining what it is I mean when I ask questions or state things I tend to include everyone, believers & non-believers or as I like to call them The lost ones". The wisdom you've shared speaks to believers - Funerals attract both believers & non because of the loved one in the casket. It seems to me that most "Christians" only care to mention Jesus, The Bible at funerals without having much passion about the fruits people bear. If someone only called me up whenever they needed something, or were in trouble, or were hurt I'd get a bit tired of taking that call after a while. I have even mentioned that to people when they call on the Lord only in times of need, misery or pain, MY Lord that I serve & Love ALL the time, even when he's blessed me with an uneventful day.

I would rather be accused of judging someone with correct scripture than allow someone to keep believing a passed on lie about how human souls earn their way into Heaven. Not by deeds, ignorance or money but with your heart, soul & whole person. I mean after all, Jesus said we will judge angels 1 Corinthians 6:3... Judging just to be mean or anything other than merciful isn't right I've learned this but WE Christians have a duty to judge those inside the church. People who show up to Church on Sunday, claim Christianity yet live similar to demons.

God & his word is not to be taken lightly - He's LOVING, AWESOME, GIVING, MIRACULOUS & 87 more positive adjectives - He's our Superman - Supernatural Man I should say & I am seeing less & less Christians stand up for OUR dad like warriors but more like timid wimps in fear of hurting feelings or being accused of judging - If pointing out facts is the definition of judging I guess I am a judge & I've judged a lot (mainly to non-believers & Rice Christians), I'll live with that fact. Jesus told us not to base things on feelings but truths. Jesus is the same yesterday, today & forever. It's US that change non stop, it's laws that change with the seasons & we've just got to stand Gods ground no-matter how shunned & hated we are & since WE ARE HIS & he is INSIDE US WE have to speak HIS truth hurting feelings and all. Enough is enough for me anyway! God didn't chose us to be pushed around, knocked down to have his truths altered or kept a secret in fear of hurting some feelings, OH NO NO NO. He selectively picked us because he hand picks warriors that will fight the good fight without backing down, watering down his word - NOT me anyway. If I'm the only one standing that doesn't faze me.

I know I come off as brash, enthusiastic, passionate & as some would even say mouthy... But I am this way because of my Love I have for Jesus. I refuse to allow people to assume anything about MY Lord that just isn't true or watered down. I have to correct the misinformed with scripture so the misunderstanding won't be passed down for another generation to come. The truth is the truth no-matter who doesn't like what it is. I can admit that I didn't always agree with many regulations it takes to walk the Christian walk but that doesn't make it any less a truth. Heck, I still have personal issues with some of my dads rules but he's molding me for HIS goal. HIS mission & HIS reasons. It's tough to let go & let God do his work in me every second of every day but as time goes by it's becoming less & less 'tough' for me. I'm beginning to notice that it's more natural than anything else. That to me is strange but in a really cool way.
 
All unbelievers are dead. Should we not pray for them? Once a person no longer has hope, we should refrain from praying for them. In the OT we see where the prophet Samuel is told to stop mourning over King Saul because God had rejected him as king [I Sam 16:1]. Samuel heard from God, but unless we have heard from God we should, I believe, continue praying for unbelievers... at least until the dirt is thrown over their face. At that point I believe the final decision (whatever it is) has already been made.

OF COURSE we should!!! That is not how I wanted it to seem I was saying by any means. When I mention death or the dead, I mean laying in a casket dead, not UN-believing dead in the Lord. I constantly pray for people that God hasn't chosen yet. I mean that we were told not pray for the people that have died (are already in the ground decomposing and those that are laying in caskets without blood flow). Sorry for the confusion & THANK YOU for giving me understanding about what a being dead while living means. I didn't really know that till now I just call them unbelievers.
 
Thank you for the wisdom @Ophel- I guess I am having a hard time when it comes to explaining what it is I mean when I ask questions or state things I tend to include everyone, believers & non-believers or as I like to call them The lost ones". The wisdom you've shared speaks to believers - Funerals attract both believers & non because of the loved one in the casket. It seems to me that most "Christians" only care to mention Jesus, The Bible at funerals without having much passion about the fruits people bear. If someone only called me up whenever they needed something, or were in trouble, or were hurt I'd get a bit tired of taking that call after a while. I have even mentioned that to people when they call on the Lord only in times of need, misery or pain, MY Lord that I serve & Love ALL the time, even when he's blessed me with an uneventful day.

I would rather be accused of judging someone with correct scripture than allow someone to keep believing a passed on lie about how human souls earn their way into Heaven. Not by deeds, ignorance or money but with your heart, soul & whole person. I mean after all, Jesus said we will judge angels 1 Corinthians 6:3... Judging just to be mean or anything other than merciful isn't right I've learned this but WE Christians have a duty to judge those inside the church. People who show up to Church on Sunday, claim Christianity yet live similar to demons.

God & his word is not to be taken lightly - He's LOVING, AWESOME, GIVING, MIRACULOUS & 87 more positive adjectives - He's our Superman - Supernatural Man I should say & I am seeing less & less Christians stand up for OUR dad like warriors but more like timid wimps in fear of hurting feelings or being accused of judging - If pointing out facts is the definition of judging I guess I am a judge & I've judged a lot (mainly to non-believers & Rice Christians), I'll live with that fact. Jesus told us not to base things on feelings but truths. Jesus is the same yesterday, today & forever. It's US that change non stop, it's laws that change with the seasons & we've just got to stand Gods ground no-matter how shunned & hated we are & since WE ARE HIS & he is INSIDE US WE have to speak HIS truth hurting feelings and all. Enough is enough for me anyway! God didn't chose us to be pushed around, knocked down to have his truths altered or kept a secret in fear of hurting some feelings, OH NO NO NO. He selectively picked us because he hand picks warriors that will fight the good fight without backing down, watering down his word - NOT me anyway. If I'm the only one standing that doesn't faze me.

I know I come off as brash, enthusiastic, passionate & as some would even say mouthy... But I am this way because of my Love I have for Jesus. I refuse to allow people to assume anything about MY Lord that just isn't true or watered down. I have to correct the misinformed with scripture so the misunderstanding won't be passed down for another generation to come. The truth is the truth no-matter who doesn't like what it is. I can admit that I didn't always agree with many regulations it takes to walk the Christian walk but that doesn't make it any less a truth. Heck, I still have personal issues with some of my dads rules but he's molding me for HIS goal. HIS mission & HIS reasons. It's tough to let go & let God do his work in me every second of every day but as time goes by it's becoming less & less 'tough' for me. I'm beginning to notice that it's more natural than anything else. That to me is strange but in a really cool way.

Great post. We have the same reputation! God bless you!

Now, please explain to me the term, "Rice Christian"!


.
 
He is not within the heart of the unbeliever, nor is He in that that place where the wicked dead go to await their judgment.

I was going to say that but I didn't feel 100% on that so I just sat back ... Now I have been convinced (I am going to study up though just to learn some more awesomeness of my dad). THANK YOU JESUS!!!!
 
A rice Christian is someone that goes to Church, plays the Christian role for "things" ... I just recently heard & learned of the term myself so I'm kinda tossing it around more & more now that I know what it is exactly.

This is from Webster: Definition of rice Christian. :
a convert to Christianity who accepts baptism not on the basis of personal conviction but out of a desire for food, medical services, or other benefits.

This is from wisegeek.com : The term “rice Christian” is used to refer to people who convert to Christianity out of a need for survival, rather than from a genuine desire to embrace the Christian faith. The term references historical missionary policies in Asia, in which some missionaries offered rice and other food items to people who agreed to convert to Christianity. Faced with the choice of starving or converting, some people chose to convert, or to at least appear to convert.
 
A rice Christian is someone that goes to Church, plays the Christian role for "things" ... I just recently heard & learned of the term myself so I'm kinda tossing it around more & more now that I know what it is exactly.

This is from Webster: Definition of rice Christian. :
a convert to Christianity who accepts baptism not on the basis of personal conviction but out of a desire for food, medical services, or other benefits.

This is from wisegeek.com : The term “rice Christian” is used to refer to people who convert to Christianity out of a need for survival, rather than from a genuine desire to embrace the Christian faith. The term references historical missionary policies in Asia, in which some missionaries offered rice and other food items to people who agreed to convert to Christianity. Faced with the choice of starving or converting, some people chose to convert, or to at least appear to convert.

Well, thank you! I learned something new, today! I pray that many, through their needs being met, will realize that there is more to this Christ than a bowl of rice or a cup of water, but that these provisions come from the love of God for them. Perhaps over time and reflection and the merry-go-round of poverty, they will fully realize that they have a very real, alive, and personal Saviour!

.
 
@Ophel I am with you on that!!! Seems twisted & kinda similar to the final days from what I have read so far in Revelations... Get the mark of the beast if you want to bank, work, eat, live & so on & so fourth... It's beyond sad that people don't or won't give Jesus the time of day... Pray for them!!
 
He is not within the heart of the unbeliever, nor is He in that that place where the wicked dead go to await their judgment.

He does not go where he is not wanted, to stay, but He accesses ALL. How did Jesus know the thoughts of people around him? Jesus went to Hell and He has the keys to the gates, and even evil beings must be kept in check despite their freedom of choice. Perhaps you should read Job 38 to the end of the book and see how God responds to those who think they "know" how things must be.
 
@LordKnows and @Ophel
Always a joy to see two sisters in Christ Jesus walking together in the Word of God! :thumbsup:
Keep it up and I just might have to move this to the "Women" Forum! :)
YBIC
C4E
<><
 
@Brad Huber and @Ophel

Here's a little something that might help. A little long but a very good read on "Omnipresent"
YBIC
C4E
<><

Question: "What does it mean that God is omnipresent?"

Answer:
The prefix omni- comes from the Latin meaning “all.” So, to say that God is omnipresent is to say that God is present everywhere. In many religions, God is regarded as omnipresent, whereas in both Judaism and Christianity, this view is further subdivided into the transcendence and immanence of God. Although God is not totally immersed in the fabric of creation (pantheism), He is present everywhere at all times.

God's presence is continuous throughout all of creation, though it may not be revealed in the same way at the same time to people everywhere. At times, He may be actively present in a situation, while He may not reveal that He is present in another circumstance in some other area. The Bible reveals that God can be both present to a person in a manifest manner (Psalm 46:1; Isaiah 57:15) and present in every situation in all of creation at any given time (Psalm 33:13-14). Omnipresence is God's characteristic of being present to all ranges of both time and space. Although God is present in all time and space, God is not locally limited to any time or space. God is everywhere and in every now. No molecule or atomic particle is so small that God is not fully present to it, and no galaxy so vast that God does not circumscribe it. But if we were to remove creation, God would still know of it, for He knows all possibilities, whether they are actual or not.

God is naturally present in every aspect of the natural order of things, in every manner, time and place (Isaiah 40:12; Nahum 1:3). God is actively present in a different way in every event in history as provident guide of human affairs (Psalm 48:7; 2 Chronicles 20:37; Daniel 5:5-6). God is in a special way attentively present to those who call upon His name, who intercede for others, who adore God, who petition, and who pray earnestly for forgiveness (Psalm 46:1). Supremely, He is present in the person of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ (Colossians 2:19), and mystically present in the universal church that covers the earth and against which the gates of hell will not prevail.

Just as the omniscience of God suffers apparent paradoxes due to the limitations of the human mind, so does the omnipresence of God. One of these paradoxes is important: the presence of God in hell, that place unto which the wicked are departed and suffer the unlimited and unceasing fury of God because of their sin. Many argue that hell is a place of separation from God (Matthew 25:41), and if so, then God cannot be said to be in a place that is separated from Him. However, the wicked in hell endure His everlasting anger, for Revelation 14:10 speaks of the torment of the wicked in the presence of the Lamb. That God should be present in a place that the wicked are said to be departed unto does cause some consternation. However, this paradox can be explained by the fact that God can be present—because He fills all things with His presence (Colossians 1:17) and upholds everything by the word of His power (Hebrews 1:3)—yet He is not necessarily everywhere to bless.

Just as God is sometimes separated from His children because of sin (Isaiah 52:9), and He is far from the wicked (Proverbs 15:29) and orders the godless subjects of darkness to depart at the end of time to a place of eternal punishment, God is still there in the midst. He knows what those souls suffer who are now in hell; He knows their anguish, their cries for respite, their tears and grief for the eternal state that they find themselves in. He is there in every way as a perpetual reminder to them of their sin which has created a chasm from every blessing that might be otherwise granted. He is there in every way, but He displays no attribute other than His wrath.

Likewise, He will also be in heaven, manifesting every blessing that we cannot even begin to comprehend here; He will be there displaying His manifold blessing, His manifold love, and His manifold kindness—indeed, everything other than His wrath. The omnipresence of God should serve to remind us that we cannot hide from God when we have sinned (Psalm 139:11-12), yet we can return to God in repentance and faith without even having to move (Isaiah 57:16).


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My own addition to the above. (C4E)

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17
 
He does not go where he is not wanted, to stay, but He accesses ALL. How did Jesus know the thoughts of people around him? Jesus went to Hell and He has the keys to the gates, and even evil beings must be kept in check despite their freedom of choice. Perhaps you should read Job 38 to the end of the book and see how God responds to those who think they "know" how things must be.
Jesus never went to HELL, that place of eternal punishment. He went to the grave, to Hades or Sheol, that place where the spirits of the dead, both righteous and unrighteous (in their respective places) were confined---the righteous awaiting their hoped-for Messiah, who did come and led them out, and the unrighteous, awaiting judgment---and they are waitung still.
 
Another thing Waggles you are asking Ophel for scripture that is basic 101 for some one claiming to be superior in biblical view, not to mention you already posted it yourself in post #15 dont you read your own post
No need to be rude. I have never claimed to be superior. I put forward my scriptures to back up my position on the given topic.
And if you took the time to read my posts slowly and thoughtfully, you will find much commentary between the scriptures.
 
No need to be rude. I have never claimed to be superior. I put forward my scriptures to back up my position on the given topic.
And if you took the time to read my posts slowly and thoughtfully, you will find much commentary between the scriptures.

My apologies, I did read it carefully and disagree with you.
 
Jesus never went to HELL, that place of eternal punishment. He went to the grave, to Hades or Sheol, that place where the spirits of the dead, both righteous and unrighteous (in their respective places) were confined---the righteous awaiting their hoped-for Messiah, who did come and led them out, and the unrighteous, awaiting judgment---and they are waitung still.
No more pearls for you. You are too wise in your own eyes to see any truth that doesnt line up with what you already believe.
 
Posters on this thread:

Please don't let divisive words cause a split between us who are Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus. It is better that the subject is dropped completely and that you both agree to disagree on this point. Ultimately either position chosen will not determine our final destination.

Sometimes, our righteous anger gets the better of us and we give little time to pray over how we will respond to something that we see as being false. This especially, is the time when we should stop, catch our breath, say a prayer, and continue to look over the words we intend to use in our reply before we hit that "Post Reply" button.

A brother dear to me called 1 Corinthians 13 the "Love Chapter". It is easy to see why. Love should take preeminence in our replies to one another. Even correction can be worded in a way that still allows one to make ones point while still maintaining the precious bond we share in Jesus.

YBIC
C4E
<><
Moderator
 
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