"They're in a better place"

[Ophel]

No more pearls for you. You are too wise in your own eyes to see any truth that doesnt line up with what you already believe.

Nice judgment there. A couple threads on judgment are here in the forum. You'd be wise to peruse them. My wisdom is from God. Period. He shows me what to believe. Take it up with Him.

 

[Ophel]

No more pearls for you. You are too wise in your own eyes to see any truth that doesnt line up with what you already believe.

You need to come up with scriptural, unrefutable truth that Jesus went to the Lake of Fire, because all I am seeing is poor human understanding.. The Lake of Fire, commonly referted to as hell in today's vernacular, has no inhabitants yet. You have to be specific about the place that Jesus actually went to. I have already explained it. Now, you must dismantle your personal take on it to agree with scripture, according to all references of that place by name and the meaning of the name. Plain old "hell" can refer to various locations. We need to be specific, lest confusion remains.

 

[Brad Huber]

You need to come up with scriptural, unrefutable truth that Jesus went to the Lake of Fire, because all I am seeing is poor human understanding.. The Lake of Fire, commonly referted to as hell in today's vernacular, has no inhabitants yet. You have to be specific about the place that Jesus actually went to. I have already explained it. Now, you must dismantle your personal take on it to agree with scripture, according to all references of that place by name and the meaning of the name. Plain old "hell" can refer to various locations. We need to be specific, lest confusion remains.

Jesus gave his pearls to the pharisees then quit arguing. I shall follow in His mighty footsteps.

 

[Ophel]

Jesus gave his pearls to the pharisees then quit arguing. I shall follow in His mighty footsteps.

Diversion. Mighty? Not so much. Do your due diligence and study the word. Ttyl.

 

[Waggles]

@LordKnows @Christ4Ever @Brad Huber @Ophel and to other readers...

In the end it is not a salvation issue. I guess for all of us, if any should die then it is what some refer to as "the moment of truth."

But I ask you all to meditate on this verse of scripture.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

(BBE) And no one has ever gone up to heaven but he who came down from heaven, the Son of man.
(CEV) No one has gone up to heaven except the Son of Man, who came down from there.
(ISV) "No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
(YLT) and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down--the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

 

[Waggles]

I know I come off as brash, enthusiastic, passionate & as some would even say mouthy... But I am this way because of my Love I have for Jesus.

It is good to be zealous for our Lord and for the gospel. Don't be foolish and let your lamp run out of oil.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness,
the beginning of the creation of God;
3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou were cold or hot.
3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

 

[Curtis]

I hear those words said MANY times at funerals once someone passes away. "They're in a better place" & I can not help but think to myself or even mention "Are you sure about that?" because last I checked in Romans 10:9 (NIV) "If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." If the person that passed was not a believer in Christ & lived worldly thinking their good deeds or the fact that they haven't killed anyone would get them a ticket into Heaven I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Heaven is not where they will be. 99% of the people always say "You don't know that for sure" But oh YES I DO know that FOR SURE... not only do I know that for sure - I have the Bible that confirms that fact in MULTIPLE scriptures.

My question is this: Why do people seem to think that everyone that dies goes directly to Heaven in an instand? To me, That tells me one of two things... One - is they are unfamiliar with Gods word (the Bible), Gods laws & his requirements (teachings in the Bible). And two - They must think that God is some kind of pushover that does whatever WE want him to do & that what he has told us in the Bible will be changed whenever our human minds, feelings or emotions change. And whenever he doesn't do what we want we turn into spoiled rotten brats & throw temper tantrums. ANYONE that truly believes in God KNOWS he's not a yes man.

On a side note - I also hear many people say "I know my __________ is looking down on me." & that too makes me think. "NO their not" God said that until he comes back everyone will be sleeping (John 3:13). So nobody is in heaven or hell just yet. That will be determined by God himself when the Resurrection happens ... "Like a thief in the night".


Has anyone here had this happen to them? What are your thoughts on this subject? I'm just curious how others approach this situation.


I have also read that we are not to pray for the dead.

Sister, As a "born again" Christian we live in two different worlds all at the same time. The Spiritual, and the physical. When God raised up Jesus from the dead he also raised us up with him because we were in him.(In Christ) We are right now sitting on the right hand of God in Christ in Heaven!! This is not some future event that will happen some day. Surely there will be a time when our physical bodies will be change into supernatural bodies, and that time has not yet come. This is why it is called " the resurrection of the dead" the word "dead" means "corpse, body" not spirit. As a child of God when our body fails it goes into the ground to await the resurrection of the dead, but our spirits stay where it has always been in Christ in Heaven. Most believers have never experienced the resurrected life in Christ because they do not believe the Word of God that tells us this. You can not experience anything in God's Kingdom beyond your faith. What everyone is experiencing in their Christian walk today is exactly where there faith is at this moment. If we want to experience more then we will have to believe more, and that can only happen if we have faith in what the Word of God says.

Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Col 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

 

[Dave M]

Hey Waggles they way I interpret that is Jesus is talking about before he came, no one has ever gone to heaven they went to Abraham boosom or hades, I agree with that, BUT that all changes now that he has lifted the curse, because as Paul says to be away from the body is to be with the lord

2 Corinthians 5:8
Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Waggles would love to here your thoughts on my above points if you please refrain from calling me wrong and you right but maybe just difference in opinions. Unless of course you can show me in scripture that I am wrong because after Jesus lifted the course it is clear people are in heaven with the Lord

@LordKnows @Christ4Ever @Brad Huber @Ophel and to other readers...

In the end it is not a salvation issue. I guess for all of us, if any should die then it is what some refer to as "the moment of truth."

But I ask you all to meditate on this verse of scripture.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

(BBE) And no one has ever gone up to heaven but he who came down from heaven, the Son of man.
(CEV) No one has gone up to heaven except the Son of Man, who came down from there.
(ISV) "No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
(YLT) and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down--the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

 

[Dave M]

Here is a excellent read on soul sleep

What does the Bible say about soul sleep?
stion: "What does the Bible say about soul sleep?"

Answer: “Soul sleep” is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul “sleeps” until the resurrection and final judgment. The concept of “soul sleep” is not biblical. When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8;Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18; 20:13-14). As can be clearly seen in Luke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation.

 

[Ophel]

@LordKnows @Christ4Ever @Brad Huber @Ophel and to other readers...

In the end it is not a salvation issue. I guess for all of us, if any should die then it is what some refer to as "the moment of truth."

But I ask you all to meditate on this verse of scripture.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

(BBE) And no one has ever gone up to heaven but he who came down from heaven, the Son of man.
(CEV) No one has gone up to heaven except the Son of Man, who came down from there.
(ISV) "No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
(YLT) and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down--the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

The NLT gives us a better perspective of that very verse IN LIGHT OF THE CONTEXT!! You and far too many others take one verse out of context and apply it erroneously. You have just done that.

John 3:10-13
10 Jesus replied, “You are a respected Jewish teacher, and yet you don’t understand these things? 11 I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen, and yet you won’t believe our testimony. 12 But if you don’t believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.


.

 

[LordKnows]

Whenever I read a book, Bible or what have you I picture what the happenings are in my head. The post wasn't to define what the Bible says sleep is or if there is a Jehovah Witness middle level of heaven but rather the fact that people automatically think that everyone they love who dies gets a "Go to Heaven free" pass just because their hearts hurt & they love someone that is now passed on & that is NOT the case.

The fact of the matter is in Romans 10:9 - and MANY other scriptures. My younger brother passed away Feb 3rd 2002 at 24 years old, my mom lost many nights of sleep (and still does) wondering what his destination is & to be completely honest - I do not know. He didn't read the Bible, go to church or mention Jesus hardly at all. My younger brother drank, smoked pot, fornicated & partied & did whatever he felt like doing. He was a GREAT person. He has respect for people, helped his friends out whenever they needed him & even when they didn't. He cleaned, cooked, had jobs here & there & contributed but that is pretty much what we have today when people are laying in caskets & still people will say "Their in a better place" & when I say, "Maybe THIS was their better place" they reply with the classic & regurgitated "You don't know that for sure, YOU don't KNOW their hearts.... & that is true BUT I knew their fruits by what I seen & never seen any God likeness come out of them at all. Just because someone "believes" in Jesus doesn't mean they are saved. Satan KNOWS Jesus & he's condemned to Hell for ALL of eternity. Satan even has angels that PERSONALLY KNOW Jesus & his almighty power & they are not getting into Heaven just because they believed in him either.

Some people even believe that "Once saved always saved" & WOW that is the biggest lie Satan will ever have a person believe if you ask me. This Christian walk is a LIFE WALK not a temporary, have nothing better to do at the time walk it's a till I turn to dust walk. Eat it, live it, breathe it forever walk. It's NOT easy... Christians have to turn old best friends in to strangers, family members into occasional associates & what once was a regular good time for us is now forbidden. It's NOT easy & it's not supposed to be. We're going against grain, fighting a constant currant that doesn't let up often. We're aliens in a foreign land that shouldn't blend in or get too comfortable & that is why many believers fade back into the world & go back to doing what it was that had them seek God in the first place. Not many people care to run in a wind storm with a parachute on & see it as being a blessing. It's easier to go with the flow, get drunk, fight, lie, live dangerously, steal & sleep with whoever they can. I used to hear people tell me all the time... "Anything worth having is worth fighting for" and that blends in with being a God fearing, Bible studying Christian. The majority of us here joined this forum to get a better understanding of who Jesus is, meet other Christians & learn from one another. Our BEST strength is Jesus YES ... BUT, how much stronger will we be when we ALL come together & bond tougher than carbide? We will be like Marines yet 10 times stronger and a million times better!! I LOVE this forum because I have learned many things so far. I battle satan & demons all day everyday just walking out my door, heck waking up even but I refuse to go back to the place that had me up many nights crying, begging & pleading for a savior & just one more chance! I have done it too many times. I've carried around with me too much regret, anger, sadness & misery. I've handed it all over to God. I've been calm during times where I would have naturally started swinging fists. ALL THANKS to GOD & ONLY God.

It is so easy to get into a debate with someone & have it turn into a all out brawl & for what?? WHO really wins? WE HAVE to pray for God to soften our hearts, be open to gaining new knowledge & realizing that what we have been taught isn't all truth. WE have to allow God to reprogram US for HIS wants, needs & mission. THIS isn't about US & it NEVER was or will be. This is about God & HIS will whether we like it or not. As soon as we can get that fact through out thick skulls gaining knowledge, wisdom & discernment will be natural.

We've got enough to deal with when it comes to this world & the evil satan is consuming it with... Lets just take a breath, sit back & come together as a unbeatable team instead of caring about who's right or wrong.
Many will be called but only few will be chosen Matthew 22:14. PLEASE pray that you are the chosen & not just called!!!

 

[Christ4Ever]

In the end it is not a salvation issue.

@LordKnows
Since you are the originator of this thread, I will do as you have asked Dear Sister. The need for unity, especially in these trying times if we are to marshal the strength that we have been given and can access through the Holy Spirit, for the divine purpose of spreading the Gospel and the continued growth of Kingdom of God.

@Waggles
If you desire to have another thread created with this subject matter let me know, and I can copy posts, create another thread where you can continue to make your point. Still, I would ask you to reflect on the benefit of continuing to make a point that you yourself have said "In the end it is not a salvation issue."

Waggles Note: Just when I had a couple of questions for you Brother

YBIC
C4E
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For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day. 2 Timothy 1:12