Trinity

[Searchingtoo]

Jesus said in John 17:3 that his heavenly Father was the only true God, so what kind of a god is Jesus?

 

[B-A-C]

It's not 3 persons making 3 gods. It's 3 persons making 1 God.

3 wheels make 1 tricycle.
the executive branch, legislative branch and judicial branch don't make three governments, they make 1 government.
an egg shell, egg-white and yolk don't ,make 3 eggs, they make 1 egg.

Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father aren't 3 Gods, they make 1 God.
But to answer your question... what kind of God is Jesus, He is the kind of God that creates everything.

Gen 1:1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

John 10:30; "I and the Father are one."

 

[Searchingtoo]

It's not 3 persons making 3 gods. It's 3 persons making 1 God.

3 wheels make 1 tricycle.
the executive branch, legislative branch and judicial branch don't make three governments, they make 1 government.
an egg shell, egg-white and yolk don't ,make 3 eggs, they make 1 egg.

Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father aren't 3 Gods, they make 1 God.
But to answer your question... what kind of God is Jesus, He is the kind of God that creates everything.

Gen 1:1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

John 10:30; "I and the Father are one."

I understand that's what you think, but I don't recall the Bible saying anything about 3 wheels 1 tricycle. Do you have a verse that says there are 3 Gods in one? Do you even have a verse where Jesus said he was God? But we do have John 17:3 were he said his Father was the only true God. There are plenty of places where Jesus is called the son of God, but not one where he is called God the son.

Yes God created the heavens and earth, but he used Jesus to do it as Col.1:16 says "all things were created through him", but if you notice in the preceding verse it says "he is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. The problem is that if something is the image of something or someone else they can't be the thing they are the image of.

The fact that Jesus was the firstborn of all creation he had to be created according to Col. 1:15 which also makes it impossible for him to be God. The Greek word translated to firstborn literally means first one born and the fact that he is called a creation means he was created. Strongs Concordance says the Greek word translated creation literally means "original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively):—building, creation, creature".

God was not created nor did he have a beginning, but it's seems hard to deny that Jesus did.

Yes John wrote speaking of Jesus that "I and the Father are one", but a little later Jesus explained exactly how they were one in John 17:20-22 - “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one".

You don't think Jesus was praying that we are God do you? No more that Jesus meant that he was God or logic would follow that we are God too. After all he said that we should be one in them the same was Jesus and God are one.

 

[Waggles]

Jesus - Yeshua - is also the YHWH that interacts with Adam and the patriarchs, then onto Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, then Moses and the prophets.
You will find references in the OT to there being two YHWH - such as
Gen 19:24 Yahweh rained down from heaven upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh.
25 And he overthrew those cities and the whole plain, and the inhabitants of the cities and the vegetation of the ground.

Note the mention here of two Yahweh, one in heaven who sends judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah at the bidding of the Yahweh on earth. This gives significant evidence for more than one person in the Godhead.
Jehovah Witnesses counter with the argument that by making Jesus Jehovah, I am asserting the untruth that Jesus is the Father.
I suggest they listen or read more carefully: I am not asserting Jesus is the Father, but that at least two Persons in the Godhead are each called YHWH (or Yahweh) in Scripture, and Jesus is clearly one of them.

Judges 6:21 Then the angel of Yahweh reached out the tip of the staff that was in his hand, and he touched the meat and the unleavened cakes; and fire went up from the rock and consumed the meat
and the unleavened cakes. And the angel of Yahweh went from his sight.
22 And Gideon realized that he was the angel of Yahweh; and Gideon said, "Oh, my lord Yahweh! For now I have seen the angel of Yahweh face to face."

Jesus has a few names in the OT - I AM; YHWH, the angel of YHWH; the Name; the Word; the Rock ...

 

[Searchingtoo]

Jesus - Yeshua - is also the YHWH that interacts with Adam and the patriarchs, then onto Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, then Moses and the prophets.
You will find references in the OT to there being two YHWH - such as
Gen 19:24 Yahweh rained down from heaven upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh.
25 And he overthrew those cities and the whole plain, and the inhabitants of the cities and the vegetation of the ground.

Note the mention here of two Yahweh, one in heaven who sends judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah at the bidding of the Yahweh on earth. This gives significant evidence for more than one person in the Godhead.
Jehovah Witnesses counter with the argument that by making Jesus Jehovah, I am asserting the untruth that Jesus is the Father.
I suggest they listen or read more carefully: I am not asserting Jesus is the Father, but that at least two Persons in the Godhead are each called YHWH (or Yahweh) in Scripture, and Jesus is clearly one of them.

Judges 6:21 Then the angel of Yahweh reached out the tip of the staff that was in his hand, and he touched the meat and the unleavened cakes; and fire went up from the rock and consumed the meat
and the unleavened cakes. And the angel of Yahweh went from his sight.
22 And Gideon realized that he was the angel of Yahweh; and Gideon said, "Oh, my lord Yahweh! For now I have seen the angel of Yahweh face to face."

Jesus has a few names in the OT - I AM; YHWH, the angel of YHWH; the Name; the Word; the Rock ...

I think it is quite a stretch to say that Jesus is YHWH simply because God is mentioned as being in heaven in one place and earth in another. I don't see mention of 2 Yahweh anywhere in the Bible and certainly not here. Besides, if you think Yahweh can't be in two places at one time then you take away his omnipresence. Maybe you don't believe that God can be everywhere at the same time???

The angel of Yahweh is not Yahweh or it would say Yahweh instead of angel of Yahweh. Just because Gideon said "Oh, my lord Yahweh doesn't mean he thought the angel was Yahweh. You have to do better than that. I've heard a good many people say the same thing but certainly not because they saw God or thought they did.

By the way, I think the I am thing is bogus as well. In both John 8:24 and 8:58 when Jesus said I am it is obvious that he was saying I am or I have been. In fact Strong's says that is exactly what it means. This is just a made up idea to try to prove Jesus is God again. Completely false. Besides that if just read a little further in John chapter 9 Jesus healed a man of blindness and the people were discussing whether or not he was the man that was blind from birth and he said I am. The exact same (egO eimi) words that Jesus
spoke. Do you think this man thought he was God too? It's just bogus.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Jesus said in John 17:3 that his heavenly Father was the only true God, so what kind of a god is Jesus?

Same God, manifested in human flesh.

 

[Searchingtoo]

Same God, manifested in human flesh.

The only problem with that idea is that Jesus said his father was the only true God, which automatically eliminates Jesus from being God. Plus the fact that Colossians 1:15 says Jesus is the first born of all creation, which means he was created and had a beginning. God did not. He also said his father was greater than he was, and that he only said what his father told him to say, and do which means he is not equal with the father. He also said, only the father knew the day of the hour of his return. Which shows he’s not all knowing either. Just too many reasons that Jesus cannot be God.

 

[B-A-C]

The fact that Jesus was the firstborn of all creation he had to be created according to Col. 1:15 which also makes it impossible for him to be God.

Why is that? Creation ( i.e. the physical universe ) didn't always exist. The heavens and the Earth were created at some point. When physical creation was created, Jesus was the first firstborn .. "of all creation".
That doesn't mean He didn't exist before creation.

Rev 22:13; "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

If Jesus is "just a man" how was He alive when the universe was created? How was He alive before Abraham? How was He alive to see Satan booted out of heaven?
How does he have the authority to forgive sins?

Luke 5:21; The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this man who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?"

The Pharisees weren't wrong here.

Do you even have a verse where Jesus said he was God?

Better, I have a verse where the Father calls Jesus God.

Heb 1:8; But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

John 5:18; For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:14; And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Col 2:9; For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

 

[B-A-C]

Philippians 2:6
(AMPC) Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained,
(BBE) To whom, though himself in the form of God, it did not seem that to take for oneself was to be like God;
(Bishops) Who beyng in the fourme of God, thought it not robbery to be equall with God.
(CSB) who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be exploited.
(Geneva) Who being in ye forme of God, thought it no robberie to be equall with God:
(GNB) He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.
(Greek NT) ὃς ἐν μορφῇ Θεοῦ ὑπάρχων οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ,
(GW) Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
(HCSB) who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.
(KJV) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(MKJV) who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God
(NIrV) In his very nature he was God. But he did not think that being equal with God was something he should hold on to.
(NIV) Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
(NKJV) who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
(NLT) Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The only problem with that idea is that Jesus said his father was the only true God, which automatically eliminates Jesus from being God. Plus the fact that Colossians 1:15 says Jesus is the first born of all creation, which means he was created and had a beginning. God did not. He also said his father was greater than he was, and that he only said what his father told him to say, and do which means he is not equal with the father. He also said, only the father knew the day of the hour of his return. Which shows he’s not all knowing either. Just too many reasons that Jesus cannot be God.

There’s a logical fallacy in your argument - who is the “only true God”? There’s no other way to know the “true God” except through Jesus, who is THE way, THE truth, THE life.

May the concept incarnation of God is your stumbling block, you think all men are created beings, God can’t be man, but the true God has no limit. In Genesis 18, God revealed himself to Abraham as a visitor along with two angels, he even ate with Abraham, how do you explain that?

 

[Waggles]

 

[Searchingtoo]

Why is that? Creation ( i.e. the physical universe ) didn't always exist. The heavens and the Earth were created at some point. When physical creation was created, Jesus was the first firstborn .. "of all creation".
That doesn't mean He didn't exist before creation.

Rev 22:13; "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

If Jesus is "just a man" how was He alive when the universe was created? How was He alive before Abraham? How was He alive to see Satan booted out of heaven?
How does he have the authority to forgive sins?

Luke 5:21; The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this man who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?"

The Pharisees weren't wrong here.



Better, I have a verse where the Father calls Jesus God.

Heb 1:8; But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

John 5:18; For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:14; And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Col 2:9; For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Please don't try to avoid John 17:3 by throwing up a bunch of other scripture. Who would know better that Jesus who the true God is. Do you believe what he said or maybe Jesus lied? If you believe the words of Jesus then you can not think that Jesus is God. There is verse after verse that show clearly that Jesus is inferior to God. He said so himself in John 14:28 and John 12:49 and then there is 1 Cor. 11:3. He is not omniscient as God is Mat. 24:36. He had a beginning Col. 1:15, Rev. 3:14 and Proverbs 8:22.

So we see in scripture plainly stated that Jesus does not know everything God knows, that he is inferior to God, that he had a beginning and that he is not the true God. It couldn't be any clearer. Even if one of these things were true he could not be Almighty God.

Let's look at Rev. 22:13: In both of the other two places in Revelation where the term "Alph and Omega" are used it identifies this as God. I am the Alph and omega says the Lord God.-Rev. 1:8 and in Rev. 21:6,7 is also said to be God. In Rev. 22:10, speaking of the angel, John says, "And he said to me...," then continues the quote all the way to the end of verse 13. Reading it as it is seems a bit confusing because John quotes someone speaking to him in verse 10 and that quote doesn't end until the end of verse 13, yet we are told that it is one person speaking in 10 and 11, but someone else in verses 12 and 13. Where is the justification for that?

I never said Jesus was just a man. It's obvious he existed in heaven before he came to earth because he was the firstborn of all creation.-Col.1:15 Before the angels and all other creation.

As far as pharisees are concerned they were trying to find a way to get rid of Jesus all along and as Jesus said speaking about the devil,"You are from your father the devil...he is a liar and the father of it", so anything they say holds no weight.

Hebrews 1:8.9 is a quote from Psalms 45 and was written to an earthly king. The fact that is says "your God has anointed you" shows that the king spoken of is inferior to God. God has no God. It even speaks of him having a wife so it could not be Jesus. If the verse is calling the king God, then that would make both Solomon and Jesus God.

John 5;18 again is just the pharisees trying to trip Jesus with more lies. There is nothing in the statement "son of God" that makes Jesus equal with God. In fact we have already covered scripture that says just the opposite of that.

To be hones I get a little tired of explaining John 1:1 because I always feel I'm explaining something that people already know but choose to ignore it. Anyway, Here goes. There is no indefinite (a, an) article in the Greek. (sound familiar) but there is a definite article (the). The only way to distinguish between God and a god is to either use the article before God to show it is "the" God or leave out the article to show it is "a" god. This is how it was written: In the beginning was the (D.A) Word and the (D.A.) Word was with the (D.A.) God and the (D.A.) Word was a (No D.A) god. I don't think it was an accident that John used the definite article every time except the last time when he left it out because he knew what that meant. In the Coptic Greek there is an indefinite article and it is used where it says "the word was a (indefinite art.) god.

Col. 2:9:
At Colossians 2:9 the word in the Greek that the New World Translation renders “divine quality” is theótes, and this is the only use of the word in the Christian Greek Scriptures. The same is true of a similar Greek word, theiótes, which appears only at Romans 1:20, and which the New World Translation there renders “Godship,” as follows: “For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable.”

Liddell and Scott’s A Greek-English Lexicon, in its new ninth edition, defines the two terms in the light of ancient usages apart from the Scriptures. Theiótes it defines as “divine nature, divinity” (page 788). Theótes it defines in exactly the same way, as “divinity, divine nature,” and then cites as an example Colossians 2:9. In this connection it shows that the similar Greek expression, dia theóteta, means “for religious reasons.”

 

[Searchingtoo]

Please don't try to avoid John 17:3 by throwing up a bunch of other scripture. Who would know better that Jesus who the true God is. Do you believe what he said or maybe Jesus lied? If you believe the words of Jesus then you can not think that Jesus is God. There is verse after verse that show clearly that Jesus is inferior to God. He said so himself in John 14:28 and John 12:49 and then there is 1 Cor. 11:3. He is not omniscient as God is Mat. 24:36. He had a beginning Col. 1:15, Rev. 3:14 and Proverbs 8:22.

So we see in scripture plainly stated that Jesus does not know everything God knows, that he is inferior to God, that he had a beginning and that he is not the true God. It couldn't be any clearer. Even if one of these things were true he could not be Almighty God.

Let's look at Rev. 22:13: In both of the other two places in Revelation where the term "Alph and Omega" are used it identifies this as God. I am the Alph and omega says the Lord God.-Rev. 1:8 and in Rev. 21:6,7 is also said to be God. In Rev. 22:10, speaking of the angel, John says, "And he said to me...," then continues the quote all the way to the end of verse 13. Reading it as it is seems a bit confusing because John quotes someone speaking to him in verse 10 and that quote doesn't end until the end of verse 13, yet we are told that it is one person speaking in 10 and 11, but someone else in verses 12 and 13. Where is the justification for that?

I never said Jesus was just a man. It's obvious he existed in heaven before he came to earth because he was the firstborn of all creation.-Col.1:15 Before the angels and all other creation.

As far as pharisees are concerned they were trying to find a way to get rid of Jesus all along and as Jesus said speaking about the devil,"You are from your father the devil...he is a liar and the father of it", so anything they say holds no weight.

Hebrews 1:8.9 is a quote from Psalms 45 and was written to an earthly king. The fact that is says "your God has anointed you" shows that the king spoken of is inferior to God. God has no God. It even speaks of him having a wife so it could not be Jesus. If the verse is calling the king God, then that would make both Solomon and Jesus God.

John 5;18 again is just the pharisees trying to trip Jesus with more lies. There is nothing in the statement "son of God" that makes Jesus equal with God. In fact we have already covered scripture that says just the opposite of that.

To be hones I get a little tired of explaining John 1:1 because I always feel I'm explaining something that people already know but choose to ignore it. Anyway, Here goes. There is no indefinite (a, an) article in the Greek. (sound familiar) but there is a definite article (the). The only way to distinguish between God and a god is to either use the article before God to show it is "the" God or leave out the article to show it is "a" god. This is how it was written: In the beginning was the (D.A) Word and the (D.A.) Word was with the (D.A.) God and the (D.A.) Word was a (No D.A) god. I don't think it was an accident that John used the definite article every time except the last time when he left it out because he knew what that meant. In the Coptic Greek there is an indefinite article and it is used where it says "the word was a (indefinite art.) god.

Col. 2:9:
At Colossians 2:9 the word in the Greek that the New World Translation renders “divine quality” is theótes, and this is the only use of the word in the Christian Greek Scriptures. The same is true of a similar Greek word, theiótes, which appears only at Romans 1:20, and which the New World Translation there renders “Godship,” as follows: “For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable.”

Liddell and Scott’s A Greek-English Lexicon, in its new ninth edition, defines the two terms in the light of ancient usages apart from the Scriptures. Theiótes it defines as “divine nature, divinity” (page 788). Theótes it defines in exactly the same way, as “divinity, divine nature,” and then cites as an example Colossians 2:9. In this connection it shows that the similar Greek expression, dia theóteta, means “for religious reasons.”

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Philippians 2:6
(AMPC) Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained,
(BBE) To whom, though himself in the form of God, it did not seem that to take for oneself was to be like God;
(Bishops) Who beyng in the fourme of God, thought it not robbery to be equall with God.
(CSB) who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be exploited.
(Geneva) Who being in ye forme of God, thought it no robberie to be equall with God:
(GNB) He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.
(Greek NT) ὃς ἐν μορφῇ Θεοῦ ὑπάρχων οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ,
(GW) Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
(HCSB) who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.
(KJV) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(MKJV) who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God
(NIrV) In his very nature he was God. But he did not think that being equal with God was something he should hold on to.
(NIV) Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
(NKJV) who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
(NLT) Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

I honestly don't know what is meant by "emptied himself", but in KJV it reads "made himself of no reputation", but I'm pretty sure it has something to do with him leaving his place at the right hand of god and coming in the flesh. He never said he was God's equal because he was not.-John 14:28. I do know that everything he did was at Gods direction both on earth and when he was in heaven. Even when he went back to heaven he still called God "his God" in Rev. 3:12 and again, still in heaven 1 Corinthias 15:27 says “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. Does this sound like Jesus was God when he was returned to his glory in heaven?

You might remember what Jesus said this in John (again) 17:20-22 - “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one. Sometimes someone will say, as proof that Jesus is God, Jesus said the father and I are one or mention his glory as you did. If either of these things made Jesus God then it seems you could make the same argument about all followers.

Oh, by the way, you can not be the thing you are in the form of.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Please don't try to avoid John 17:3 by throwing up a bunch of other scripture. Who would know better that Jesus who the true God is. Do you believe what he said or maybe Jesus lied? If you believe the words of Jesus then you can not think that Jesus is God. There is verse after verse that show clearly that Jesus is inferior to God. He said so himself in John 14:28 and John 12:49 and then there is 1 Cor. 11:3. He is not omniscient as God is Mat. 24:36. He had a beginning Col. 1:15, Rev. 3:14 and Proverbs 8:22.

So we see in scripture plainly stated that Jesus does not know everything God knows, that he is inferior to God, that he had a beginning and that he is not the true God. It couldn't be any clearer. Even if one of these things were true he could not be Almighty God.

Let's look at Rev. 22:13: In both of the other two places in Revelation where the term "Alph and Omega" are used it identifies this as God. I am the Alph and omega says the Lord God.-Rev. 1:8 and in Rev. 21:6,7 is also said to be God. In Rev. 22:10, speaking of the angel, John says, "And he said to me...," then continues the quote all the way to the end of verse 13. Reading it as it is seems a bit confusing because John quotes someone speaking to him in verse 10 and that quote doesn't end until the end of verse 13, yet we are told that it is one person speaking in 10 and 11, but someone else in verses 12 and 13. Where is the justification for that?

I never said Jesus was just a man. It's obvious he existed in heaven before he came to earth because he was the firstborn of all creation.-Col.1:15 Before the angels and all other creation.

As far as pharisees are concerned they were trying to find a way to get rid of Jesus all along and as Jesus said speaking about the devil,"You are from your father the devil...he is a liar and the father of it", so anything they say holds no weight.

Hebrews 1:8.9 is a quote from Psalms 45 and was written to an earthly king. The fact that is says "your God has anointed you" shows that the king spoken of is inferior to God. God has no God. It even speaks of him having a wife so it could not be Jesus. If the verse is calling the king God, then that would make both Solomon and Jesus God.

John 5;18 again is just the pharisees trying to trip Jesus with more lies. There is nothing in the statement "son of God" that makes Jesus equal with God. In fact we have already covered scripture that says just the opposite of that.

To be hones I get a little tired of explaining John 1:1 because I always feel I'm explaining something that people already know but choose to ignore it. Anyway, Here goes. There is no indefinite (a, an) article in the Greek. (sound familiar) but there is a definite article (the). The only way to distinguish between God and a god is to either use the article before God to show it is "the" God or leave out the article to show it is "a" god. This is how it was written: In the beginning was the (D.A) Word and the (D.A.) Word was with the (D.A.) God and the (D.A.) Word was a (No D.A) god. I don't think it was an accident that John used the definite article every time except the last time when he left it out because he knew what that meant. In the Coptic Greek there is an indefinite article and it is used where it says "the word was a (indefinite art.) god.

Col. 2:9:
At Colossians 2:9 the word in the Greek that the New World Translation renders “divine quality” is theótes, and this is the only use of the word in the Christian Greek Scriptures. The same is true of a similar Greek word, theiótes, which appears only at Romans 1:20, and which the New World Translation there renders “Godship,” as follows: “For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable.”

Liddell and Scott’s A Greek-English Lexicon, in its new ninth edition, defines the two terms in the light of ancient usages apart from the Scriptures. Theiótes it defines as “divine nature, divinity” (page 788). Theótes it defines in exactly the same way, as “divinity, divine nature,” and then cites as an example Colossians 2:9. In this connection it shows that the similar Greek expression, dia theóteta, means “for religious reasons.”

perhaps if we look at the question, "Who is God", we might get further in understanding each other?


Bless you ....><>

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Please don't try to avoid John 17:3 by throwing up a bunch of other scripture. Who would know better that Jesus who the true God is. Do you believe what he said or maybe Jesus lied? If you believe the words of Jesus then you can not think that Jesus is God.

Again, the "only true God" is known to be true and unique through Christ - God himself in the likeness of man, to whom all authority is given, that''s what John 17:1-5 is all about. If you deny Christ, you deny God, and whatever idea of god you have in your mind is not the true God.

 

[Searchingtoo]

Again, the "only true God" is known to be true and unique through Christ - God himself in the likeness of man, to whom all authority is given, that''s what John 17:1-5 is all about. If you deny Christ, you deny God, and whatever idea of god you have in your mind is not the true God.

I'm certainly not denying Christ, but rather recognizing his position in the kingdom. It is through belief Christ that we receive salvation. All I'm doing is quoting his words. If anyone in the universe knows who the true God is it's Jesus. Just give me scripture not what you think. That's all I'm trying to do. Peace!

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I'm certainly not denying Christ, but rather recognizing his position in the kingdom. It is through belief Christ that we receive salvation. All I'm doing is quoting his words. If anyone in the universe knows who the true God is it's Jesus. Just give me scripture not what you think. That's all I'm trying to do. Peace!

Well that's funny, you said it loud and clear that "don't try to avoid John 17:3 by throwing up a bunch of other scripture", and a motherload of scripture is given in other posts.

 

[B-A-C]

Please don't try to avoid John 17:3 by throwing up a bunch of other scripture. Who would know better that Jesus who the true God is. Do you believe what he said or maybe Jesus lied? If you believe the words of Jesus then you can not think that Jesus is God.

John 17:3; "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

How does this prove Jesus isn't God in any way?

I could say "My family left me at the park.". Does that mean I'm not part of the family?

The Father is the only true God, and Jesus also is the only true God. But they aren't two Gods.

 

[B-A-C]

Please don't try to avoid John 17:3 by throwing up a bunch of other scripture

I tend to be a majority scipture/weight of scripture type of person. If 20 verses say one thing, and 1 verses seemingly says something different.
I will go with the 20 verses.

 

[Searchingtoo]

Greetings,




perhaps if we look at the question, "Who is God", we might get further in understanding each other?


Bless you ....><>

The question was what kind of god is Jesus. I think if we find who Jesus is it goes a long way in telling us who God is and it's obvious from the scriptures that Jesus is not Almight God. He surely didn't think he was with scriptures such as we've seen here. Read over Mat. 24:36, John 14:28, John 12:48, and John 17:3 and you will see pretty clearly that Jesus never thought he was God. He was called the son of God repeated but never God the son and he never claimed to be, even when he was accused of it by the pharisees. I wonder why.