Trinity

[Butch5]

Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible.

whose form did Moses see?

The Angle of the Lord. AKA Jesus

 

[Garee]

Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible.

whose form did Moses see?

Moses like all believers (believing is seeing) endured as seeing not seeing . Endured as meaning as if .

God is not a man he has no form .

 

[Curtis]

Moses like all believers (believing is seeing) endured as seeing not seeing . Endured as meaning as if .

God is not a man he has no form .

Does Jesus have a form? Is he God or no?

Heb 11:27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king's anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. (NIV)

Col 1:15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation, (NLT)

 

[Curtis]

The Angle of the Lord. AKA Jesus

Is Jesus God?

 

[paths that cross]

.
in Hebrews 10:12 - it is very interesting about the Trinity Doctrine in that how the Catholic Douay Rheims and the Latin Vulgate contradict and disagree with the contrasting Protestant K.J.V.

Firstly - Let's look at - Heb 10:12 first from the - Catholic Douay Rheims and the Latin Vulgate

Heb 10:12 :12 But this man, offering one sacrifice for sins, for ever sitteth on the right hand of God,



and now - the Protestant K.J.V.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;


what we see here - in the enormous contradiction and massive difference between these two translations is that the Catholic Translation states that Jesus offered one sacrifice for sins, - then a comma " , " Jesus offered one sacrifice for sins, - - ( FOLLOWED BY A COMMA PUNCTUATION MARKING ))

the Catholic translations go on to say " for ever sitteth on the right hand of God, " - - so the Catholics explain the Trinity to say for sure - Jesus - for ever sitteth on the right hand of God,


however the contradiction and difference is that the Protestant K.J.V. places a comma after the word " forever " - to say that Jesus offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, then the comma " , "
followed by - , sat down on the right hand of God. The K.J.V removes the message that says that Jesus for ever sitteth on the right hand of God because eventually Trinitarians realized that their translation expressly says that Jesus is NOT forever sitting on the right hand of God.

:13 FROM HENCEFORTH EXPECTING UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL.


Mar 12:36 Sit ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thy enemies thy footstool.
Luk 20:42 Sit thou ON my right hand, - UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Act 2:34 Sit thou ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool.
Heb 1:13 Sit ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool?

the translators later translating the Protestant K.J.V. attempted to fix this contradiction by moving and shuffling the punctuation to move the " comma > to translate


NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE

Protestant K.J.V. - after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever ,,,,, - sat down ON the right hand of God;

vs the Catholic

Catholic Douay Rheims and the Latin Vulgate - offering one sacrifice for sins,,,,, - for ever sitteth ON the right hand of God,
​

Protestants realizing that they cannot believe in a Trinitarian Jesus who forever sits ON the right hand of Trinitarian God - yet they cannot believe in a Jesus who is not a Trinitarian

so they adjust and simply move a punctuation mark to deny and diminish the very deity of Jesus that had been instituted in the confusing and contradiction of the Trinity Contradiction instituted by their Roman Catholic mother. Can Protestants to this day provide answer to the question using their Translation, - when does Jesus be removed and taken away and loose his seat and position of being GLORIFIED to sit at the right hand of God ? ? ?

to Trinitarians simply take this question to simply mean to them - when is the seating arrangement in heaven changed for the Trinitarian Jesus

is this something that Trinitarians can answer ? because the original manuscripts of the New Testament are so clear and so precise to explain that Jesus is NOW IN the right of God and this is eternal - as they replace the word IN with the words - AT and ON . - can the Trinitarian provide an answer from their translations as to why the Catholic translation contradicts and Protestant translation ?

 

[Waggles]

Is Jesus God?

Yes
Which is what the epistle to the Hebrews teaches us.

1Cor 7:39 A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.
Romans 7:2 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.
Jeremiah 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke,
though I was their husband, declares the LORD.

Jesus (YHWH) had to die being the husband of Israel and Judah so that the covenant with Moses through the Law could cease.
Then Jesus was free after the resurrection to seek a new bride.

 

[Waggles]

God is not a man he has no form

Daniel 7:9 “As I looked, thrones were placed, and the Ancient of Days took his seat; his clothing was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames;
its wheels were burning fire.
10 A stream of fire issued and came out from before him; a thousand thousands served him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him; the court sat in judgment,
and the books were opened.
Daniel 7:13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.
Dan 7:14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

 

[Garee]

Daniel 7:9 “As I looked, thrones were placed, and the Ancient of Days took his seat; his clothing was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames;
its wheels were burning fire.
10 A stream of fire issued and came out from before him; a thousand thousands served him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him; the court sat in judgment,
and the books were opened.
Daniel 7:13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.
Dan 7:14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

In that parable as prophecy, God declared His will in a vision .

God is not a man.

Those who do worship the flesh of the Son of man Jesus more than the Spirit of Christ (invisible God) they incur the wrath of God .

Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God (eternal not seen) into an image made like to corruptible man,(temporal seen) and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

 

[Waggles]

In that parable as prophecy, God declared His will in a vision .

God is not a man.

Daniel 7 is not a parable - it is a vision into the heavenly realm by a prophet

1Tim 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations,
believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
Gen 12:7 Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring I will give this land.” So he built there an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him.
Gen 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless,
3 Then Abram fell on his face. And God said to him,
Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day.
2 He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth
3 and said, “O Lord, if I have found favour in your sight, do not pass by your servant.
Gen 35:9 God appeared to Jacob again, when he came from Paddan-aram, and blessed him.

Judges 6:11 Now the angel of the LORD came and sat under the terebinth at Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, while his son Gideon was beating out wheat
in the winepress to hide it from the Midianites.
14 And the LORD turned to him and said, “Go in this might of yours and save Israel from the hand of Midian; do not I send you?”
21 Then the angel of the LORD reached out the tip of the staff that was in his hand and touched the meat and the unleavened cakes. And fire sprang up from the rock
and consumed the meat and the unleavened cakes. And the angel of the LORD vanished from his sight.
22 Then Gideon perceived that he was the angel of the LORD. And Gideon said, “Alas, O Lord GOD! For now I have seen the angel of the LORD face to face.”
23 But the LORD said to him, “Peace be to you. Do not fear; you shall not die.”

"the angel of the LORD" is one of the manifestations of Jesus in the OT when he appears in human form, but with some degree of supernatural glory.

 

[Garee]

Daniel 7 is not a parable - it is a vision into the heavenly realm by a prophet

1Tim 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations,
believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
Gen 12:7 Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring I will give this land.” So he built there an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him.
Gen 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless,
3 Then Abram fell on his face. And God said to him,
Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day.
2 He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth
3 and said, “O Lord, if I have found favour in your sight, do not pass by your servant.
Gen 35:9 God appeared to Jacob again, when he came from Paddan-aram, and blessed him.

Judges 6:11 Now the angel of the LORD came and sat under the terebinth at Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, while his son Gideon was beating out wheat
in the winepress to hide it from the Midianites.
14 And the LORD turned to him and said, “Go in this might of yours and save Israel from the hand of Midian; do not I send you?”
21 Then the angel of the LORD reached out the tip of the staff that was in his hand and touched the meat and the unleavened cakes. And fire sprang up from the rock
and consumed the meat and the unleavened cakes. And the angel of the LORD vanished from his sight.
22 Then Gideon perceived that he was the angel of the LORD. And Gideon said, “Alas, O Lord GOD! For now I have seen the angel of the LORD face to face.”
23 But the LORD said to him, “Peace be to you. Do not fear; you shall not die.”

"the angel of the LORD" is one of the manifestations of Jesus in the OT when he appears in human form, but with some degree of supernatural glory.

It seem you are not aware of the use of parables . That chapter is full of metaphors used in parable . Remember the word of God has more than one level of understanding The historical seen the temporal must be mixed with faith the reckoning of the parables .

What is clear is that without parables a form of prophecy Christ spoke not. . . purposely hiding the unseen gospel understanding from the lost in order to teach how to hear his poetic tongue .or walk by faith (the unseen things of God .

Matthew 13:34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

The Bible starts out as a parable using the created things seen the temporal to show his eternal power

2 Corinthians 4:17-18 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The same with Gideon angels are messengers called apostles sent by God with the message of God . There is no missing creation that can take on form at will. That's the kind of stuff for lying signs and wonders seekers

 

[Waggles]

The same with Gideon angels are messengers called apostles sent by God with the message of God . There is no missing creation that can take on form at will. That's the kind of stuff for lying signs and wonders seekers

It is you that has no understanding of the scriptures you read.
1Kings 3:5 At Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night, and God said, “Ask what I shall give you.”
Scripture is pretty specific about how YHWH interacts with people in the OT either by direct appearance in human form with glory, or by a dream, or by a word spoken.

 

[Waggles]

John 10:30 I [Jesus] and the Father are one.
31 The Jews took up stones again to stone him.
The Jews knew exactly why they wanted to stone Jesus for this blasphemy (to their ears).
33 The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because thou, being man, makest thyself God.

 

[Waggles]

John 8:53 Art THOU greater than our *father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing: it is my Father that glorifieth me; of whom YE say, that he is your God;
55 and ye are not acquainted with him: but I know him; and if I should say, that I know him not, I shall be like you, a liar: but I know him, and keep his word.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw and was glad.
57 The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said to them, Amen, Amen, I say unto you, Before Abraham became, I am.
59 They took up stones therefore to cast at him: but Jesus was hidden, and went out of the temple.
The Jews took up stones to kill Jesus because again he was openly declaring his preincarnate existence and also being YHWH in the Torah

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed.
14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
Note also that YHWH here as in many other OT scenes is described as the angel of YHWH - not an angel like Gabriel, for in the same verses He is also named as being YHWH.
4 When the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”

 

[Twistie]

John 8:53 Art THOU greater than our *father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing: it is my Father that glorifieth me; of whom YE say, that he is your God;
55 and ye are not acquainted with him: but I know him; and if I should say, that I know him not, I shall be like you, a liar: but I know him, and keep his word.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw and was glad.
57 The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said to them, Amen, Amen, I say unto you, Before Abraham became, I am.
59 They took up stones therefore to cast at him: but Jesus was hidden, and went out of the temple.
The Jews took up stones to kill Jesus because again he was openly declaring his preincarnate existence and also being YHWH in the Torah

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed.
14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
Note also that YHWH here as in many other OT scenes is described as the angel of YHWH - not an angel like Gabriel, for in the same verses He is also named as being YHWH.
4 When the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”


Twistie