Understanding Prayer

[Ceptor]

I'm was hoping maybe we could discuss prayer, and maybe I (and others) could learn to be closer to God.

I was also hoping that, while we discuss prayer and since it is the topic, we could post things in need of prayer. Anything at all, and that it would be a good thread to learn and practice prayer simultaneously.

Some questions that come to mind for me are managing time with prayer and the busy lifestyle most people have with a demanding world we live in.

Praying and doing other things, what the Bible says about how we should pray. How we pray in public, such as being humble and yet bold at the same time.

I really hope to learn more on this subject considering it is how we all communicate with God.

 

[amadeus2]

We write up some rules or guidelines for prayer and while they may be good, they may not be good enough if we are not in the right place.

Would not a good place to start be with what Jesus says on the subject?

"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." Matt 6:6-7

 

[amadeus2]

"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread.

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen." Matt 6:9-13

 

[amadeus2]

Personally, I always start my morning with reading prayerfully the verses above plus the next two:

"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses" Matt 6:14-15

Then I read a chapter from somewhere between the books of Psalms and the Song of Solomon.

Then I go to my daily Bible reading which eventually covers the whole of scripture.

Between chapters I always talk to the Lord in English or in an unknown tongue covering whatever ground that seems necessary at the time.

I try to remember all of the needs that people have expressed to me at any time by word of mouth or on the computer or...?

To pray for everyone by name is I guess an impossibility, but we must do whatever we can asking God for help even in that. Isn't this in part why we have been given an unknown tongue?

 

[Dave M]

This is a great topic, I have a question I wonder about, when I visit my folks grave I used to talk to them which after reading the bible I learned that is a no no so I do not do that any more, but I wonder if its ok to ask God to tell them things, you know like I love them and miss them. That's what I have been doing.

I pray a lot of time when I am working, I will just say the Our Father Prayer to myself.

 

[amadeus2]

This is a great topic, I have a question I wonder about, when I visit my folks grave I used to talk to them which after reading the bible I learned that is a no no so I do not do that any more, but I wonder if its ok to ask God to tell them things, you know like I love them and miss them. That's what I have been doing.

I pray a lot of time when I am working, I will just say the Our Father Prayer to myself.

Why would it be wrong to talk to them? If you were seeking a familiar spirit or a witch or some other such forbidden intermediary it would be one thing, but simply to hold a one-sided conversation should be OK so long as your heart is always in the right place. If they still LIVE with the Lord they may even hear what you are saying:

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die..." John 11:26

 

[Ceptor]

I usually ask Jesus if He would tell them something for me.

Do you guys think details matter? Like is it better to try to pray for everyone specifically? It begins to take a long time to pray for everything and the next thing I know (though I love praying the world always has "obligations") I'm praying for a couple hours and sometimes I just wonder if I'm making it a job.

I want to pray for everyone and specific needs and mention every name and leave nothing out, but I certainly don't want to make my walk with God a burden. I struggle with managing prayer with time. Often I will pray for people in a group as God knows their specific needs, but then He knows everything I pray for before I mention anything and.. well, it seems to be becoming obvious by my words here my thought pattern. lol

Maybe pray for different things on a prayer list for different days?

And if you guys will, pray for the people in China that believe there is a "second incarnate" of Christ... Ophel tells me they believe an old chinese woman is God. Which I sort of giggle about inside, but then it's also not funny at all because their souls are in danger.

And you guys know who fightngwrmwood is. She is a little sick and has some tough life choices going on, so she needs prayer. And her friend Ramona's marriage has went bad, her husband needs salvation I think, and their children are in the middle of the dispute.

 

[amadeus2]

I usually ask Jesus if He would tell them something for me.

What is it that a believer's payer do but petition God to use the ways that He has to let a person see more clearly. Even if he is allowed to see clearly, he still has to make the decision. Surprising (or perhaps not) many people do "see" enough from God to know they could and should change their ways or ask God to help them, yet they do not.

We don't save people. Jesus made it possible for people to be saved but each person must in the end of the matter choose for themselves. Our prayers can pave the way and open their "eyes" for at least a moment, but then it is up to them.

Do you guys think details matter? Like is it better to try to pray for everyone specifically? It begins to take a long time to pray for everything and the next thing I know (though I love praying the world always has "obligations") I'm praying for a couple hours and sometimes I just wonder if I'm making it a job.[\quote]

Praying is important, but it cannot accomplish its purpose if it is a rote thing or a time thing. We use what we have to do what we can. There's 168 hours in a week and a large portion of that is taken up with sleeping or working on the job, etc. God doesn't expect us to not do those things which are really necessary and important to be proper stewards of his possessions. We do, however, need to have a care when deciding priorities. I don't work at a job per se anymore, so God may require more of me in actual time, but don't cut God too short for the wrong reasons.

I want to pray for everyone and specific needs and mention every name and leave nothing out, but I certainly don't want to make my walk with God a burden. I struggle with managing prayer with time. Often I will pray for people in a group as God knows their specific needs, but then He knows everything I pray for before I mention anything and.. well, it seems to be becoming obvious by my words here my thought pattern. lol

God knows all of the things we want to pray for already and He understands our limitations better than we do. We need to learn to be led by the Holy Spirit in our prayer... including how long we are to spend at it.

Maybe pray for different things on a prayer list for different days?

Don't try to format it too much. I generalized on my prayer time, but actually it does vary from day to day according as the Spirit directs and as to how well I am following the Spirit... or not. Praying is really spending time with a friend, or should be.

When we have had a girl friend and really cared about her and wanted to get to know her better, how much time was too much? Is our Lord to be held in lower esteem?

And if you guys will, pray for the people in China that believe there is a "second incarnate" of Christ... Ophel tells me they believe an old chinese woman is God. Which I sort of giggle about inside, but then it's also not funny at all because their souls are in danger.

And you guys know who fightngwrmwood is. She is a little sick and has some tough life choices going on, so she needs prayer. And her friend Ramona's marriage has went bad, her husband needs salvation I think, and their children are in the middle of the dispute.

As you say there is not enough time and there is also the problem of memory in knowing what or who to pray for and for how long. Ask God to help you to pray as He would have to pray. Jesus was specific, but we need the Holy Ghost to even really understand exactly what Jesus meant and means.

 

[Ceptor]

Thanks Amadeus. That helped.

 

[Bendito]

This is a great topic, I have a question I wonder about, when I visit my folks grave I used to talk to them which after reading the bible I learned that is a no no so I do not do that any more, but I wonder if its ok to ask God to tell them things, you know like I love them and miss them. That's what I have been doing.

I pray a lot of time when I am working, I will just say the Our Father Prayer to myself.

Hmmm From one who never visits cemeteries, I have to ask you....Why is it wrong to speak your feelings at the grave of a loved one?

 

[Dave M]

Bendito

mis-understanding on my part, I thought we were not supposed to talk to the dead at all never ever.

 

[Bendito]

Bendito

mis-understanding on my part, I thought we were not supposed to talk to the dead at all never ever.

LOL Yeah...Its kind of like saying goodbyes and I love you's and getting closure..I think? For me, when someone dies, I see no sense in going to the grave site because they're not there...Going there sometimes helps folks because it gives them a 'last place seen'?

 

[Dovegiven]

Bendito

mis-understanding on my part, I thought we were not supposed to talk to the dead at all never ever.

An example of extremism about talking to the dead might be in the background in some folk's minds.


"Inner Healing", carrying several titles, swept through the land a few decades past. It was basically about saying things needed to be confessed, addressed to the departed souls, for the sake of peace in the living. Its was like saying to a daddy that abused you that you have forgiven him. Though that movement didn't teach the dead heard those confessions, the idea was that the confessor benefits from the confession.

The other end of it is the account of king Saul seeking to find guidance from the dead prophet Samuel who was his former adviser, through a "familiar spirit". 1 Samuel 28

My prayer "list" is based on little thoughts, like "pray that Mrs. Hammond listens to her counselor, and take the advice." Such a prayer takes me a few seconds to say out loud, then go on. Sometimes I am urged to keep praying around a theme for someone, kind of having a song verse on the Christian radio that just won't go away. Sometimes I hear a report back, learning that the Lord impressed other people to intercede.

Taking time to speak "to the dead" shouldn't be a problem if spoken in a biblical frame of mind, but wanting a conversation with the dead can easily put you in a dangerous position. The "god of the dead", Satan, can easily supply "answers" from the dead, whether they are in Christ or not.

When we pray to the Father, in Jesus' name, we shouldn't demand or even expect a two-way conversation from God, as in a committee meeting hashing out details for a solution to a problem. The most the scriptures have left for us is to sometimes persist in making the same petition daily until receiving the final answer. Persistence in prayer is commendable, blessed.

Prayer is biblical when a person seeks from God answers to situations that are similar to answers we learn about in the scriptures. If God answered a way, he can and likely will again answer the way he has responded to on record. It pays to know the scriptures well enough to learn how God loves to answer back to man. He revealed his "weakness" of blessing people, scattered all throughout the Bible.

 

[Ceptor]

Hey Bendito, when are you going to train my dog brother? I need a chauffeur!

The Bible is clear Dave, we aren't suppose to speak to the dead. But this doesn't mean expressing love at a grave site. That is, so long as it's a one way conversation. Welcoming conversation with a voice that speaks back, leaves one open to deception from demons as the 'person' is in one of two places. Hell or Heaven. (Hebrews 9:27)

Praying to, or consulting the dead is forbidden. (Deuteronomy 18:11) But expressing your thoughts out loud at the grave site, with the knowledge that it's a one sided conversation (unless God tells them Himself without us knowing) is not sin. It becomes sin when we believe we are speaking to them in reality and they can hear us, and can even speak back in some manner. This, is an open door for spirits that are evil to impersonate the dead.(Revelation 12:9)

So, while God doesn't mind expressing love, I didn't want anyone to get the idea it's ok to actually speak to the dead or attempt to converse with them. This is one way in which people open themselves to demonic possession... which is no joy ride.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I usually ask Jesus if He would tell them something for me.

Do you guys think details matter? Like is it better to try to pray for everyone specifically? It begins to take a long time to pray for everything and the next thing I know (though I love praying the world always has "obligations") I'm praying for a couple hours and sometimes I just wonder if I'm making it a job.

I want to pray for everyone and specific needs and mention every name and leave nothing out, but I certainly don't want to make my walk with God a burden. I struggle with managing prayer with time. Often I will pray for people in a group as God knows their specific needs, but then He knows everything I pray for before I mention anything and.. well, it seems to be becoming obvious by my words here my thought pattern. lol

Maybe pray for different things on a prayer list for different days?

And if you guys will, pray for the people in China that believe there is a "second incarnate" of Christ... Ophel tells me they believe an old chinese woman is God. Which I sort of giggle about inside, but then it's also not funny at all because their souls are in danger.

And you guys know who fightngwrmwood is. She is a little sick and has some tough life choices going on, so she needs prayer. And her friend Ramona's marriage has went bad, her husband needs salvation I think, and their children are in the middle of the dispute.

Greetings Ceptor,
The one thing to remember is that we are not ever informing God of anything. He already knows. So what He has been teaching me is to pray using His word. When I pray for nations or groups pf people etc I pray as in a whole and if God wants me to concentrate on a paticualr area - well He will place that on my heart. Praying in the Spirit is also a great help.

One example...........uncle bill is on the wild side and un-saved. Dont go to God in prayer crying the blues about how bad uncle bill is and how scared you are for him and on and on and on. Take His word over this and pray it and settle it and dont speak out against it.

Scripture tells us in Mark 11:25 When you stand praying "FORGIVE" if you have ANY AUGHT against any - so your Father which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. This means right then and there. Unforgiveness will hinder your prayer life big time.

Scripture tells us in Mark 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that He will send forth labourers into his harvest.

Scripture tells us in 2 Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Scripture tells us in Mark 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

So pray that God will send the labourers of the field into uncle bills life - forgive all aught - know God heard you and His answer was or is YES and AMEN and beleive this with no room for doubt or speaking out against.

I then go one more step farther.....I take authority over what ever has been keeping the light out of uncle bill and we know who is behind that - in Jesus name i bind these things which have kept him in spiritual blindness and cast them into the sea. Like light blockers - it's time for you to go....

Then I settle it and from that point on I thank God for uncle bills salvation and I thank Him that those labourers are getting through to Him..........it wont be long until uncle bill will be calling you and telling you the good news.

I hope this makes sense to you
God Bless
Jim

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

LOL Yeah...Its kind of like saying goodbyes and I love you's and getting closure..I think? For me, when someone dies, I see no sense in going to the grave site because they're not there...Going there sometimes helps folks because it gives them a 'last place seen'?

Yea I never did like that last place seen thing. I mean for me - I want my last memories of them to be happy ones and not images of the grave.

 

[Ceptor]

What do you guys think about having faith in God, but still allowing Him to be God.

Let me try a different perspective. You're praying for a job, but aren't sure if God is going to grant you said job. We all know God knows what is best for us... He is perfect and knows all things.

So if I am asking for a job, and God decides that the job isn't His will for me.. how am I to have faith in receiving what I ask in such a situation. If I generalize everything leaving it open to Him, then my prayer becomes generic, though obviously I know I should pray for Him to show me His will, but even that is up to Him as the Creator and Sustainer of all things.

If we ask for a person to live, say in icu at the hospital, who is someone we love.. We are to believe we will receive what we ask for in Jesus name. If the person dies, are we faithless? Or is praying in this manner true to God's will, yet He chooses what's best over our request in prayer at times.

The list of situations could get quite lengthy, and each one adds a different aspect of complexity.

Of course, this isn't the first time I've contemplated these things, or prayed about them and I've fashioned a sort of understanding (or so I feel) with how to go about prayer. But to carve my conclusions in stone is foolishness to me these days. I've learned my brothers and sisters often have much to teach me.

So if my post here made any sense, I would love to hear what God has shown you guys.

 

[Dave M]

Hey Bendito, when are you going to train my dog brother? I need a chauffeur!

The Bible is clear Dave, we aren't suppose to speak to the dead. But this doesn't mean expressing love at a grave site. That is, so long as it's a one way conversation. Welcoming conversation with a voice that speaks back, leaves one open to deception from demons as the 'person' is in one of two places. Hell or Heaven. (Hebrews 9:27)

Praying to, or consulting the dead is forbidden. (Deuteronomy 18:11) But expressing your thoughts out loud at the grave site, with the knowledge that it's a one sided conversation (unless God tells them Himself without us knowing) is not sin. It becomes sin when we believe we are speaking to them in reality and they can hear us, and can even speak back in some manner. This, is an open door for spirits that are evil to impersonate the dead.(Revelation 12:9)

So, while God doesn't mind expressing love, I didn't want anyone to get the idea it's ok to actually speak to the dead or attempt to converse with them. This is one way in which people open themselves to demonic possession... which is no joy ride.

Ceptor thank you brother for that explanation that is very clear and really just makes sense when put that way!!

 

[amadeus2]

What do you guys think about having faith in God, but still allowing Him to be God.

We need to get to know Him better, but knowing God involves more than knowing our co-worker or our neighbour or our spouse. But... in each of those situations we need to come eventually to represent ourselves to that person as Jesus would.

Let me try a different perspective. You're praying for a job, but aren't sure if God is going to grant you said job. We all know God knows what is best for us... He is perfect and knows all things.

Again this comes down to communicating with God, two way communication. We don't start there, of course, because early on we really do not hear very well, or if we do, we aren't able to separate the voice of God from other voices speaking to us. Jesus grew as a man and so we must grow as a child of God into... that which He really would like for us to be.

So if I am asking for a job, and God decides that the job isn't His will for me.. how am I to have faith in receiving what I ask in such a situation. If I generalize everything leaving it open to Him, then my prayer becomes generic, though obviously I know I should pray for Him to show me His will, but even that is up to Him as the Creator and Sustainer of all things.

Without generalizing too much, let your prayer contain whatever understanding you do have of Him to whom you are talking. As to the answers, many times I have found that I already had the answers from God, but I simply failed to recognize what I had. That is still the case in a measure for me anyway.

God, I believe, wants to be friends with us as He became friends with Abraham. Sure the friendship will be top-heavy or lop-sided, but God is aware of that and will compensate us for our efforts. Our lack of effort may on the other had get us into trouble with God.

Scripture speaks of us needing to avoid an unequal yoke with another person, but that is not how it is with God. He will hold up our end too, if we trust Him enough to stay committed to the partnership. Or perhaps we should call it a slave-Master relationship.

If we ask for a person to live, say in icu at the hospital, who is someone we love.. We are to believe we will receive what we ask for in Jesus name. If the person dies, are we faithless? Or is praying in this manner true to God's will, yet He chooses what's best over our request in prayer at times.

The list of situations could get quite lengthy, and each one adds a different aspect of complexity.

Consider this lengthy list of situations in light of Ecc 3:1-11 which contrasts times. For example there is...

"A time to be born and a time to die..." Ecc 3:2

"A time to kill, and a time to heal..." Ecc 3:3

God is certainly willing to heal, but sometimes it is already time to die for that person. My maternal grandmother die 6 months after her 100th birthday. She was born in 1903. Should I have knelt beside her death bed and prayed for her to have a few more years, or not? I loved her, but I believe that it was time for her to go:

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" Heb 9:27

Consider the prayer of Jesus for his own natural life:

"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

The physical man, Jesus, knew what the "cup" was and he did not want to go through the torture, the pain, the suffering and the death, but and the three times it prayed, he added the words at the end..."nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt".

Then there was King Hezekiah [II Kings 20], one of the good kings of Judah, who when advised by the prophet that he was going to die, prayed for an extension and 15 years were added to his life. Perhaps his prayer was amiss for it was during this extra time granted to him that he made what might be called the worst mistake of his reign in showing everything to visiting Babylonians.sible, let this cup pass

Of course, this isn't the first time I've contemplated these things, or prayed about them and I've fashioned a sort of understanding (or so I feel) with how to go about prayer. But to carve my conclusions in stone is foolishness to me these days. I've learned my brothers and sisters often have much to teach me.

So if my post here made any sense, I would love to hear what God has shown you guys.

The answers I gave for my grandmother's death I actually encountered when my mother died a few years later (2006). In her case I did not condemn her, but I saw too much of her ways that were not God's ways. Yet I did not want believe there was no hope. There was, but I won't go into that here.

God does answer our prayers, but even if He can change the order of things, sometimes it would better for us if He did not. Knowing when to pray for some things, or not, is something that we need God's help in...
:-

 

[Ophel]

This is a great topic, I have a question I wonder about, when I visit my folks grave I used to talk to them which after reading the bible I learned that is a no no so I do not do that any more, but I wonder if its ok to ask God to tell them things, you know like I love them and miss them. That's what I have been doing.

You are completely innocent!

My parents are both with Jesus. I sometimes talk to them, but it isn't prayer. When I look in the mirror, I see my mother there, and simply say, "Hi Mom!" It's nothing sinful! It's completely normal, when you loved your family member. Whenever I am at their graveside, I tell them I love them. They don;t hear me, but I do it because I am their child. God hears me. Maybe He lets them in on it. No one knows. God is all about family! I have also asked God to speak to my mom about the odd thing. It's innocent and part of my relationship with Jesus.


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