Understanding Prayer

[Ophel]

Prayer.

When I click on that link, all I get is a "Page not found". Can you post another link?


.

 

[Ceptor]

That is how harshly I reject it

Mark 10:42-45
42But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
43But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
44And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
45For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.


1 Peter 5:2-3
2Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

I will argue further with you though that a child cannot have unbelief or doubt.

Matthew 7:13-14
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Ephesians 2:8
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


All those "many" pleased God and had faith? Seems God says different. God sees every person as a child.

Ceptor ask yourself exactly what faith you think is needed to have God answer a prayer.

Hebrews 11:6
6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Mark 11:22
22And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

How about this....If God's word says He is partial....I want absolutely nothing to do with it...

John 6:65
65And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Forget what God wants, it is all about YOU and YOUR faith

1 John 4:7-8
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.


Please don't play coy and imply ugly things about people here. lol Everyone here loves God brother, not just you. Only God knows the heart. Our job and commandment is to love. God is the judge.







Also, please try to focus on how we can better know God ourselves.. not criticizing the body of Christ.

Romans 14:4
4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Actually favoritism has everything to do with it. It is in fact my chief issue with it.

I cannot phrase it any simpler to you then this. Using your own words...

Your belief:

God hearing prayers of Faith and His word = good child who gets what he needs and wants.

Doubt and unbelief and anything else opposed to His written word = bad child who does not get what he needs or wants.

Every good parent on this planet will have something to say to you about your belief in God...our Father. You are 50% correct if we apply this to saved vs unsaved. As John 9:31 says ''God does not hear the prayers of sinners''.

God ''HEARS'' the prayers of his children who have.... doubt, unbelief, something opposed to His written word. I will argue further with you though that a child cannot have unbelief or doubt. The unbelief and doubt you propose is really just nervousness in our positive mental state.

Brother as long as you keep comparing the written word of God to human ways or understanding then you will not ever gain a deeper spiritual understanding of Gods words. If Gods word could be compared to how people do things then think brother - why bother giving us a way to live or do things ? No sir - more understanding is needed.
God Bless
Jim

 

[KingJ]

Please don't play coy and imply ugly things about people here. lol Everyone here loves God brother, not just you. Only God knows the heart. Our job and commandment is to love. God is the judge. Also, please try to focus on how we can better know God ourselves.. not criticizing the body of Christ.

My best friend believes as you do. I do love him but we do have our very heated discussions .

Just on children of God. I am not too sure what you are trying to say. Only Christians are children of God and we can judge each other. 1 Cor 5:12-13 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?" 13 God will judge those outside.

 

[KingJ]

Brother as long as you keep comparing the written word of God to human ways or understanding then you will not ever gain a deeper spiritual understanding of Gods words. If Gods word could be compared to how people do things then think brother - why bother giving us a way to live or do things ? No sir - more understanding is needed.
God Bless
Jim

Using our mind / common sense / impeccable logic can take us very far in understanding God.

But you have got me wondering....if it is not perhaps better to be spiritually wrong vs ''mentally'' wrong.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Using our mind / common sense / impeccable logic can take us very far in understanding God.

But you have got me wondering....if it is not perhaps better to be spiritually wrong vs ''mentally'' wrong.

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

 

[Ceptor]

Only Christians are children of God and we can judge each other.

Matthew 7:1-5
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Proverbs 21:2
2Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

Proverbs 3:5-7
5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

John 7:24
24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 John 4:7-8
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Every person is a child to the Father. They may not claim Him, but He made them.. and they are still children nonetheless. Therefore, a child can have doubt, and in fact.. many do.

The judgment you are trying to refer to is, in modern words, discernment brother. Not to judge others as the judge, but to learn from other's mistakes and to teach righteousness gently and by example... not with hard words.

While "discerning" is good, doing it with love is commanded. We are to serve, not to rule as masters over everyone. Jesus served, and done so for us to follow in His footsteps.

John 13:16
16Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Matthew 7:1-5
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Proverbs 21:2
2Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

Proverbs 3:5-7
5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

John 7:24
24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 John 4:7-8
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Every person is a child to the Father. They may not claim Him, but He made them.. and they are still children nonetheless. Therefore, a child can have doubt, and in fact.. many do.

The judgment you are trying to refer to is, in modern words, discernment brother. Not to judge others as the judge, but to learn from other's mistakes and to teach righteousness gently and by example... not with hard words.

While "discerning" is good, doing it with love is commanded. We are to serve, not to rule as masters over everyone. Jesus served, and done so for us to follow in His footsteps.

John 13:16
16Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Romans 14 :4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth . Yea, he shall be holden up : for God is able to make him stand .

Acts 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

 

[Ceptor]

My best friend believes as you do. I do love him...

Remember that your best friend and you have an understanding amongst the "heatedness" that people here cannot have. That is called a special bond, as you are best friends.

And we love you too brother. Just try to be sweet with people. They often have soft hearts and hard lives. Kindness and encouragement are key to being a great leader.

 

[KingJ]

Matthew 7:1-5
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Proverbs 21:2
2Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

Proverbs 3:5-7
5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

John 7:24
24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 John 4:7-8
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Every person is a child to the Father. They may not claim Him, but He made them.. and they are still children nonetheless. Therefore, a child can have doubt, and in fact.. many do.

The judgment you are trying to refer to is, in modern words, discernment brother. Not to judge others as the judge, but to learn from other's mistakes and to teach righteousness gently and by example... not with hard words.

While "discerning" is good, doing it with love is commanded. We are to serve, not to rule as masters over everyone. Jesus served, and done so for us to follow in His footsteps.

John 13:16
16Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

I don't want to discuss judging further here. There is a new thread on it waiting for me. The semantics of the word in scripture and its actual dictionary definition is very interesting. You are correct that it has to do with discernment in 1 Cor 5.

Our disagreement on children is looking like the heart of our reason for disagreement on this subject. I agree that if you believe we are all the children of God your take on faith makes a lot more sense. My take is that we are all created the human race. We become adopted children Eph 1:5 when we accept Jesus Rev 3:20.

Just some further scripture to consider:

John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

1 John 3:1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

Gal 3:26 For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

I know that Paul is to blame for a lot of the confusion on OSAS vs Armininiasm. As he never differentiated between saved and unsaved in the church. He always spoke respectfully to all. Never attempted to play God. He called the guy committing incest a brother 1 Cor 5:1. It seems to me that he always differentiated between those professing to be saved vs those not professing.

 

[Ceptor]

I know that Paul is to blame for a lot of the confusion

Brother, you just jumped into left field telling me God's Word is in error and that Paul didn't have the Holy Spirit living in him.

Paul's word's are from God wrote in the Bible brother, your words are not.

If you begin claiming the Bible causes confusion we have no reason to discuss anything! :laugh:

I hope I'm misunderstanding you... :whistle

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I don't want to discuss judging further here. There is a new thread on it waiting for me. The semantics of the word in scripture and its actual dictionary definition is very interesting. You are correct that it has to do with discernment in 1 Cor 5.

Our disagreement on children is looking like the heart of our reason for disagreement on this subject. I agree that if you believe we are all the children of God your take on faith makes a lot more sense. My take is that we are all created the human race. We become adopted children Eph 1:5 when we accept Jesus Rev 3:20.

Just some further scripture to consider:

John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

1 John 3:1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

Gal 3:26 For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

I know that Paul is to blame for a lot of the confusion on OSAS vs Armininiasm. As he never differentiated between saved and unsaved in the church. He always spoke respectfully to all. Never attempted to play God. He called the guy committing incest a brother 1 Cor 5:1. It seems to me that he always differentiated between those professing to be saved vs those not professing.

Kj I know you said yoou were done talking about judging but I wanted to ask what you meant by this....
He called the guy committing incest a brother 1 Cor 5:1. It seems to me that he always differentiated between those professing to be saved vs those not professing.

Christians who are saved do sin in such a way. Christians who are saved have commited adultry.

 

[KingJ]

Brother, you just jumped into left field telling me God's Word is in error and that Paul didn't have the Holy Spirit living in him.

Paul's word's are from God wrote in the Bible brother, your words are not.

If you begin claiming the Bible causes confusion we have no reason to discuss anything! :laugh:

I am not going to debate that with you! If that line was all I wrote you are 100% correct .

 

[Ceptor]

So you're telling me you are here to discuss prayer and don't believe the Bible is the very Word of God Himself.. as in indisputable?

 

[Ceptor]

Two options:

1) You are being sarcastic which I don't mind if we're both debating and have an understanding between us about it

2) You believe the Bible confuses people. (your words)

This thread isn't a "debate" thread.. though you're trying to make it one. lol
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Your words seem very confusing, the Bible is not confusing at all.. and that includes Paul.

1 Corinthians 14:33
33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

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You also seem to want to be right a lot, but you haven't taken to heart any of the scriptures I've presented regarding all of your posts.. (as in still are acting contradictory) sooooo, lol, it seems that the only thing you've accomplished is to create conflict, confusion, criticize, and judge.

This makes me wonder, what is the reason for your posting?

And also, can you answer the above question in less than fifty words? Or will you need a bunch to drag it out and make it all confusyish?

Riddle me this, riddle me that, if I jump all over, you won't know where I'm at... lol

I can really enjoy a little sarcasm and "heated" debate myself if you can take it. The question is though, are you debating to be right, or to learn?

Rhetorical question btw.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

@Ceptor Hi,
This made me laugh so hard - I think it hurts now lolo
Riddle me this, riddle me that, if I jump all over, you won't know where I'm at... lol

 

[Ceptor]

Riddle me this, riddle me that, if I jump all over, you won't know where I'm at... lol

The truth can certainly be humorous when light is shed on it at times.

 

[KingJ]

So you're telling me you are here to discuss prayer and don't believe the Bible is the very Word of God Himself.. as in indisputable?

You took 3/4 of my sentence out of my sentence.

Of course the bible is inerrant. I am just saying Paul spoke respectfully to all. He created the confusion we have today on OSAS vs Arminianism.

Paul said all that claim to be saved must judge themselves / be judged 1 Cor 5:11. Now Paul also says we are sealed in Christ Eph 1:13. So we have judged according to deeds + sealed in Christ = hellishly confusing for many.

 

[Ceptor]

Don't take my words wrong. If you want me not to be "heated" and it offends you... you just let me know. I'll stop if you want. I only jump on that train when someone else employs and seems they can take it and understand it.

2 Timothy 2:15
15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This (up there, the "scripture" ) is why it is confusing brother, not because of Paul. People don't study, duh they are going to be confused. That happens with ANY writing. Of course I stopped at confusion.. that's where my point was... I have no need for the rest of the sentence when the other half didn't resolve the statement. :laugh:

And I noticed you didn't answer the question.... uh oh...... dodging... lol :whistle

 

[KingJ]

Two options:

1) You are being sarcastic which I don't mind if we're both debating and have an understanding between us about it

2) You believe the Bible confuses people. (your words)

Option 3. I thought you were joking when you took 3/4 of my sentence out of my sentence.

Watch, I can do the same thing. You said 'the Bible confuses people'.