What If Christian Churches Were Gone?

[Victory53]

Recently, I was on another Christian forum where most of the people had disparaging words about the local congregations. They were those who didn’t attend and church because they were, in their words, “bigoted, narrow-minded, money-hungry, heretical” and the list goes on. They seem to have been brainwashed by the mocking, anti-Christian media and the false teachers they promote. I contend that these imitation Christians are the exception and not the rule.

I once believed this way, but then the Lord gave me a new perspective – I became the wife of a pastor who truly goes all out to teach and preach in truth. I saw all aspects of what it took to keep the doors open and I realized how important that was for the welfare of the community – we are a very small church but we run a food bank and have a benevolence fund. Many non-attendees have called the church for help and most of the time we were able to make a difference. However, I also realized that satan is always ready to throw the fiery darts of unmerited slander against the church door through those who would like to destroy it. What is very sad to me is that those who claim to be Christian and don’t attend church are the ones who are worst persecutors of the local body of believers. Of course, the building is not the church, but those who attend it are.

So what if the local Christian churches closed their doors? What if we had no visibility in this world? What if there were only lone Christians? Could "house churches" do what the visible church does? Who would send missionaries?

So to sum it up: What difference do you think our presence in the world makes? What would happen if we were no longer visible? Any thoughts?

 

[jiggyfly]

What is very sad to me is that those who claim to be Christian and don’t attend church are the ones who are worst persecutors of the local body of believers. Of course, the building is not the church, but those who attend it are.

While those who attend religious liturgical meetings maybe part of a church group it doesn't make them part of the body of Christ. You can join a church but you must be born into the family of God, the body of Christ.

So what if the local Christian churches closed their doors? What if we had no visibility in this world? What if there were only lone Christians? Could "house churches" do what the visible church does? Who would send missionaries?

The ekklesia would probably look and act more like the first century believers. Where do you think christians got together the first three centuries? My wife and I minister to the Lord Jesus and to others quite effectively out of our home.

So to sum it up: What difference do you think our presence in the world makes? What would happen if we were no longer visible? Any thoughts?

Well I think that religious liturgy is a very poor representation of Christ. I am a much more effective witness of Christ outside of the christian religious system then I ever was inside the system. I work a regular job and function in my community and I don't have to seek out people to witness to, they seek me out.

 

[Coconut]

What If Christian Churches Were Gone?

Then the church would find out what they need is not a building.

John 4:23 Yet the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. Indeed, the Father is looking for people like that to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

Joh 14:17 He is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, for it neither sees him nor recognizes him. But you recognize him, for he abides with you and will be in you.

2Co 6:16 For we are the temple of the living God, just as God said: "I will live and walk among them. I will be their God, and they will be my people."



The church that Christ is building is in no danger of being gone...well not in the sense you speak of...

 

[Boanerges]

We (the born again children of God) are the church.

 

[golfjack]

reply

I believe supporting and attending a local church is very important. We need to do what the Bible says, and that is not forsaking the assembeling of ourselves. Church people have fellowship with one another and are encouraged. We need to be led by a Pastor, who is a sheep herder. We need to be taught and encouraged by the Word. A teacher is one who is gifted, and the Bible says our gifts will follow us. One doesn't have to go to Bible school to qualify, but it is good to go to one. We ccan pray, praise, and worship together. It is vitally important to attend a local Church.

One more thing: I believe the number one reason why people will not attend church is because they don''t want to tithe. In other words some are stingy.


Peace, Golfjack

 

[stephen]

I became the wife of a pastor who truly goes all out to teach and preach in truth.

LOvely......Precious indeed.........God be with you

Keep in touch........In His Love

 

[Victory53]

While those who attend religious liturgical meetings maybe part of a church group it doesn't make them part of the body of Christ. You can join a church but you must be born into the family of God, the body of Christ.

Yes, there are believers and non-believers in both home churches and local visible congregations. Obviously, you must be born again to be a member of the invisible Body of Christ. Unfortunately, it is not the people within the visible church who slander those who don't attend. In fact, we don't even know them! It is those who claim to follow Christ, yet deny that God set up an orderly system of worship with rules of conduct and annointed and gifted those in this Body to build up - not tear down (1st Corinthians 12). People who don't attend a local church get very touchy when a post like this is made, but have no trouble denigating the visible church, the pastors and the members!

The ekklesia would probably look and act more like the first century believers. Where do you think christians got together the first three centuries? My wife and I minister to the Lord Jesus and to others quite effectively out of our home.

Do you? Then you should be representative of the early church. Do you send out missionaries as the early church did? Do you baptize? Do you collect money to feed the poor? How about worshipping every week?

Well I think that religious liturgy is a very poor representation of Christ. I am a much more effective witness of Christ outside of the christian religious system then I ever was inside the system. I work a regular job and function in my community and I don't have to seek out people to witness to, they seek me out.

My husband is a bi-vocational pastor and also works another job. You don't have to seek out people to witness to??? How many seek you out and attend your home church?


---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ----------

LOvely......Precious indeed.........God be with you

Keep in touch........In His Love

Thank you, Stephen.

 

[Victory53]

What If Christian Churches Were Gone?

Then the church would find out what they need is not a building.

Let's see. Our building is over a hundred years old, small and in the middle of a town that is rife with cults and sin - alcohol, drugs, wiccans, Mormons and JWs. If we were gone, where do you think the light would shine in that town? Where would those who need help go? To your house?

John 4:23 Yet the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. Indeed, the Father is looking for people like that to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

I take you are also a non-attendee. You are assuming that believers who attend a visible church don't worship God in spirit and truth? I didn't know anyone could make that assumption but God Himself who see the heart.

Joh 14:17 He is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, for it neither sees him nor recognizes him. But you recognize him, for he abides with you and will be in you.

2Co 6:16 For we are the temple of the living God, just as God said: "I will live and walk among them. I will be their God, and they will be my people."

Yes, we are. WE ARE. But there is a difference between obeying the command to assemble and go out and preach the gospel and make disciples. God set up a visible body of believers for a reason. There just might be a time when we become as the Chinese and meet in secret. At that time, we will long for that building.

The church that Christ is building is in no danger of being gone...well not in the sense you speak of...

No, the gates of hell will not prevail against His church, but once our visibility in this world is gone, what do you think will be left? The false churches will reign and those who are seeking to know the Lord might not know your address.

 

[Victory53]

I believe supporting and attending a local church is very important. We need to do what the Bible says, and that is not forsaking the assembeling of ourselves. Church people have fellowship with one another and are encouraged. We need to be led by a Pastor, who is a sheep herder. We need to be taught and encouraged by the Word. A teacher is one who is gifted, and the Bible says our gifts will follow us. One doesn't have to go to Bible school to qualify, but it is good to go to one. We ccan pray, praise, and worship together. It is vitally important to attend a local Church.

One more thing: I believe the number one reason why people will not attend church is because they don''t want to tithe. In other words some are stingy.


Peace, Golfjack

God bless you, my brother! About the tithing - um.....maybe. But maybe some just don't like to get up in the morning... (just kidding). And yes, we will have the same personality conflicts whether the group of believers meet in a home or a visible church, but in a local congregation, we DO encourage one another, are built up in the faith and spur one on to good deeds. Our small church would not be organized enough, nor have the connections to gather food for our food bank from Christian distribution centers if we were a home church. Our God-given gifts are utilized to help one another and the community but that is only one of many advantages of a local visible congregation.

The main issue is that the local church was set up by the Lord for a reason. He appointed men to lead and gave gifts to build one another up. He did give us the commandment to baptize and preach the gospel. It would be very difficult to do many things if we had no presence in the world.

 

[Victory53]

We (the born again children of God) are the church.

Never said we weren't. This is about a visible church and the advantages of attending a local congregation which is why I posted in this forum. Many think the churches are not worthy of their attendance. No one really looks at the fact that the local church needs the gifts God has given His children.

 

[jiggyfly]

My husband is a bi-vocational pastor and also works another job. You don't have to seek out people to witness to??? How many seek you out and attend your home church?

That is great that your husband works a job to support his family
I don't have a home church, I don't believe in religious liturgy. Are numbers important to you?

 

[jiggyfly]

I believe supporting and attending a local church is very important. We need to do what the Bible says, and that is not forsaking the assembeling of ourselves. Church people have fellowship with one another and are encouraged. We need to be led by a Pastor, who is a sheep herder. We need to be taught and encouraged by the Word. A teacher is one who is gifted, and the Bible says our gifts will follow us. One doesn't have to go to Bible school to qualify, but it is good to go to one. We ccan pray, praise, and worship together. It is vitally important to attend a local Church.

One more thing: I believe the number one reason why people will not attend church is because they don''t want to tithe. In other words some are stingy.


Peace, Golfjack

Tithing is strictly an old covenant practice. Those who do teach it today, teach it in error of the scriptures. As far as assembling with other believers, how about listing some scriptures that clearly state how to assemble. I would be very interested in them :wink:

We need to be led by HolySpirit, we can already see what happens when everyone follows another man.:shock:

 

[Gracealone]

Every gathering of Christians was called a church in Acts, after Jesus arose from the dead......and he promised where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst.....

There are many solid, God fearing Churches, still in this world, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

There are also many that call themselves a church, that one day he will say, depart from me....I Never knew you.

WE need to be responsible, and seek out a true God fearing, Bible teaching church, and fellowship there in.

God brought us to a Church here in Idaho, where the word is taught line upon line right through the Bible, and I have never been so blessed.

I have also been to buildings called church, where I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt Gods spirit was not there. Never went back.

Again, a church is the body of Christ, where true believers gather together. Two, or three, or where 3000 were added to the church.
The Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Believers were first called a Church at Antioch, as we all know, and we will be until the end of the church age.......the bride of Christ.
Doesnt matter what kind of a building.
A home, a school building, a all purpose building like we have, a movie theater, or whatever, as long as true believers are gathered, it is a church, the bride of Christ.....and, there he is, in the midst.

 

[jiggyfly]

Every gathering of Christians was called a church in Acts, after Jesus arose from the dead......and he promised where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst.....

There are many solid, God fearing Churches, still in this world, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

There are also many that call themselves a church, that one day he will say, depart from me....I Never knew you.

WE need to be responsible, and seek out a true God fearing, Bible teaching church, and fellowship there in.

God brought us to a Church here in Idaho, where the word is taught line upon line right through the Bible, and I have never been so blessed.

I have also been to buildings called church, where I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt Gods spirit was not there. Never went back.

Again, a church is the body of Christ, where true believers gather together. Two, or three, or where 3000 were added to the church.
The Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Believers were first called a Church at Antioch, as we all know, and we will be until the end of the church age.......the bride of Christ.
Doesnt matter what kind of a building.
A home, a school building, a all purpose building like we have, a movie theater, or whatever, as long as true believers are gathered, it is a church, the bride of Christ.....and, there he is, in the midst.

Very good post Gracealone, ofcourse I would like to add something. ( you know me):wink: As you stated, Jesus said where two or three are gathered in His name there He will be there among them. A very important part of this scripture that is typically overlooked it "in My name". Today with most of the "christian gatherings" it seems that they are gathered in their own name or in the name of their denomination. Another thing I've noticed with many is that while Christ is prominent , He isn't preeminent in their meeting. The focus is on the flock and or the co-shepherd rather than the master Shepherd. It really becomes all about the meeting and ministering one to another and few ever minister to the Lord Himself.

 

[jiggyfly]

One more thing: I believe the number one reason why people will not attend church is because they don''t want to tithe. In other words some are stingy.


Peace, Golfjack

I know I already responded to your post GolfJack, but I found it so hilariously ludicrous. Seems with some folk the focus is always money. I have found that those who teach the tithe is to be obeyed today are ignorant of the scriptures that govern the tithe. What is taught and practiced today is far from being scriptural.

 

[Gracealone]

The tithe was only 10%

We should give back the first portion of the bounty God has blessed us with,as our part of serving the Lord, plus offerings, as in Acts also.

So, what is wrong, if God leads , to give back more than just the 10% but perhaps 20 %?

WE should give as our heart leads, for it is a matter of the heart, and not a law.
Mal. 3:3 Mal.3:8 Romans 15:16

The tithe was for the Jews, but offerings should come from a heart that loves our Lord, and desires to serve him.......we are part of the body, and we need to help support the work there of.
I believe this is true, and scriptural.

I know before my husband and I determined to give, and serve in this way, our money seemed to just fall through our hands, but when we decided to serve, and give back to him, our lives have been blessed, and God did things we could never have done.

There is a verse that verify that, but this morning at 5:25 my mind is still numb........need that cup of coffee I smell in there!

 

[Gracealone]

Today with most of the "christian gatherings" it seems that they are gathered in their own name or in the name of their denomination. Another thing I've noticed with many is that while Christ is prominent , He isn't preeminent in their meeting. The focus is on the flock and or the co-shepherd rather than the master Shepherd. It really becomes all about the meeting and ministering one to another and few ever minister to the Lord Himself.

I'm really sorry jiggyfly that this seems to be true in your experience.

I know because of the age we are in there are many so called churches, that have a form of Godliness, but deny the power there of, meaning God in his fullness, but with prayer, and looking to God, he can and will lead us to a place of worship, where Jesus is lifted up, and all things are done to love, and serve him.
I was at that place, as I mention in another post, and God moved in a miraculous way to bring us here to North Country Chapel.

WE love the Lord. '
WE love each other, and desire above all else to bring glory, and honor to his name.
We are fed the unadulterated word of God, and as we leave our fellowship we are reminded that we have now entered our mission field, the world.
The Pastors job is to equip us so we in turn, can seek the lost, and be a witness to a dark and dying world.

To whom much is given, much is required. Luck 12:48

It isn't that God has not kept a remnant, he has, it is that we are close to the end, of the church age.
He told us these things would be so we wouldn't be confused, or confounded.
We are in fact, living in an exciting time.
The soon return of our Lord.....:thumbs_up:friends:

 

[Boanerges]

Never said we weren't. This is about a visible church and the advantages of attending a local congregation which is why I posted in this forum. Many think the churches are not worthy of their attendance. No one really looks at the fact that the local church needs the gifts God has given His children.

Never said that you said thy weren't!LOL!
Do not get upset with me my friend, there are many places where the church is persecuted and goes underground yet the gospel still goes forth!
As far as churches being worthy I have been privileged to attend some really awesome ones. There are sadly some dead and stuck in tradition without the Presence and yet the church of Jesus Christ is alive and vibrant with His power.
Below is a few things I like to share with those disillusioned with church (I have posted this here in another thread once before). We must remember that sometimes God places us in a body to receive, be blessed and grow. Other times He places us in a body to share, encourage and bring life. It is best to seek His will, if our heart is open He can always use us.

A church is a hospital for souls

Don't expect to go and not find anyone without at least as many problems as you have yourself.

If someone is hypocritical then church is the perfect place to get set free

Love more, look for faults less

If you want to be touched by God reach out and touch someone with His love

Love the unlovely

Be an encourager people don't need to be told what their problems are but instead they are looking for answers so point them to Jesus for He is their answer

Support your church, it takes a lot of finances to pay utilities, salaries, supplies etc., etc.

Be quick to forgive, give as much mercy as you yourself need (it's usually more than we think)

Don't take offense, see the people who hurt you through Jesus eyes and your heart will quickly change

Or as the Lord put it so very well- Love ye one another even as I have loved you- selah

 

[Gracealone]

Our Pastor often remind us, If you think you can find a perfect church, don't go there, because it wont be perfect anymore.....:embarasse

Sanctification is an on going process isn't it! and I'm thankful, if I ever thought I was perfect, I wouldn't be, because pride is one of the things God hates. Prov.6:16-17

 

[Coconut]

No, the gates of hell will not prevail against His church, but once our visibility in this world is gone, what do you think will be left? The false churches will reign and those who are seeking to know the Lord might not know your address.

Act 8:25 After they had given their testimony and spoken the word of the Lord, they started back to Jerusalem, continuing to proclaim the good news in many Samaritan villages.
Act 8:26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Get up and go south by the road that leads from Jerusalem to Gaza. This is a desert road."
Act 8:27 So he got up and went. Now an Ethiopian eunuch was there. He was a member of the court of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, and was in charge of all her treasures. He had come to Jerusalem to worship
Act 8:28 and was returning home. He was seated in his chariot, reading the prophet Isaiah.
Act 8:29 The Spirit said to Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay close to it."
Act 8:30 So Philip ran up to it and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah out loud. He asked, "Do you understand what you're reading?"
Act 8:31 He replied, "How can I unless someone guides me?" So he invited Philip to get in and sit with him.
Act 8:32 This was the passage of Scripture he was reading: "Like a sheep he was led away to be slaughtered, and like a lamb is silent before its shearer, so he does not open his mouth.
Act 8:33 In his humiliation, justice was denied him. Who can describe his generation? For his life is taken away from the earth."
Act 8:34 The eunuch said to Philip, "I ask you, about whom is the prophet speaking-about himself or about someone else?"
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth and, starting from this Scripture, told him the good news about Jesus.
Act 8:36 As they were going along the road, they came to some water. The eunuch said, "Look, there's some water. What keeps me from being baptized?"
Act 8:37 Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." He replied, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
Act 8:38 So he ordered the chariot to stop, and Philip and the eunuch both went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.
Act 8:39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away. The eunuch went on his way rejoicing and did not see Philip again.
Act 8:40 But Philip found himself at Azotus. As he was passing through the region, he kept proclaiming the good news in all the towns


Heb 1:7 Now about the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire."

Act 8:4 Now those who were scattered went from place to place preaching the word.

Act 11:19 Now the people who were scattered by the persecution that started because of Stephen went ...speaking the word ..

History tells us when the sheep are scattered, revival spreads like wildfire...

Those seeking to know the Lord surely do not need any mans address...

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Lord's Spirit is, there is freedom.

Now gather where you like...and call it whatever you like...but the Light is still Christ...not the building where you gather...he dwells in each one of us (if we have been born of the Spirit) and the work of salvation of men...is still the Spirits work...not ours.

****************************************************
Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
Eph 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
Eph 2:21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.
Eph 2:22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

Heb 3:6 But Christ was faithful as the Son in charge of God's household, and we are his household if we hold on to our courage and the hope that we boast about.
Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, "Today, if you hear his voice...