What is Grace? Is it what we think?

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

What is Grace?

Any Christian who has either read or heard Scripture for a year or two would be able to recognise many verses about Grace and certainly be comfortable with a level of doctrine regarding Grace and what it means to and for the Christian.

But, is what we usually hear about Grace right?

Take for example, the Children of Israel. Who were they and what set them apart or kept them apart from all other nations? (Ultimately it was the LORD but by what means?)
Being what we understand to be called Israel and then Jews, what can we learn from the relationship they had with God. ( I am referring to the overall and long term, based on the Covenant that the LORD kept, even if Israel didn't)
In other words, how did the LORD consider them, apart from being often rebellious and unbelieving?

We are told we are saved by Grace. Any normal Christian knows this. But is this Grace anything more than that which allows us to now come under the same love and protection as the Children of Israel were under (all to themselves)?


Look forward to some good replies,


Bless you ....><>

 

[Dave M]

Grace is when we get a reward for something that we should of got a punishment for.

Mercy is not getting the punishment

 

[Bendito]

Grace is when we get a reward for something that we should of got a punishment for.

Mercy is not getting the punishment

Sorry Dave You're still describing mercy. Not grace

Grace is 'the empowering PRESENSE of God, which enables us to do that which God wants us to do....We are saved by the empowering PRESENSE of God in our lives.

 

[Dave M]

No need to be sorry if you do not agree with me. I am not sorry I do not agree with you


What is the grace of God?
“For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves.” The only way any of us can enter into a relationship with God is because of His grace toward us. Grace began in the Garden of Eden when God killed an animal to cover the sin of Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:21). He could have killed the first humans right then for their disobedience. But rather than destroy them, He chose to make a way for them to be right with Him. That pattern of grace continued throughout the Old Testament when God instituted blood sacrifices as a means to atone for sinful men. It was not the physical blood of those sacrifices, per se, that cleansed sinners; it was the grace of God that forgave those who trusted in Him (Hebrews 10:4; Genesis 15:6). Sinful men showed their faith by offering the sacrifices that God required.

 

[Bendito]

No need to be sorry if you do not agree with me. I am not sorry I do not agree with you
What is Grace? Is it what we think?



What is the grace of God?
“For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves.” The only way any of us can enter into a relationship with God is because of His grace toward us. Grace began in the Garden of Eden when God killed an animal to cover the sin of Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:21). He could have killed the first humans right then for their disobedience. But rather than destroy them, He chose to make a way for them to be right with Him. That pattern of grace continued throughout the Old Testament when God instituted blood sacrifices as a means to atone for sinful men. It was not the physical blood of those sacrifices, per se, that cleansed sinners; it was the grace of God that forgave those who trusted in Him (Hebrews 10:4; Genesis 15:6). Sinful men showed their faith by offering the sacrifices that God required.

No need to be sorry if you do not agree with me. I am not sorry I do not agree with you
LOL What do you expect? I'm Canadian...We have a reputation for being polite.....ROFL

 

[Dave M]

No need to be sorry if you do not agree with me. I am not sorry I do not agree with you
LOL What do you expect? I'm Canadian...We have a reputation for being polite.....ROFL

I played a lot of hockey in canada, I am not sure I agree with you on the polite thing either LOL but I do respect you !!

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings again,

Do we misuse the term Grace and fit it with the doctrines and understandings (including interpretations) that we have one way or another grown up into and with?

Grace seems very broad when you hear it used.
What however is the Scriptural application of Grace. This means, by excluding all the extra uses of the term, what is Grace as Scripture uses the word and applies it to us/all/anyone?

I see the term Grace used across the forums [and near everywhere in Christian circles, big or small] and it is such a nice word to use to fill the gaps or put everything back into God's lap when it comes to alleviating us from accountability or effort or making the right choices or walking the walk that grace has enabled us to now walk.

Grace paid the price for us to enter the Kingdom.
Does grace also empower us or do we choose how to live in the Kingdom of God? Before typing, remember that many of the stories and parables that Jesus spoke regarding the Kingdom had good and bad, righteous and wicked, wise and foolish etc. Why?

Do we lean too heavily on our concept of grace and by doing so turn the truth of God into a lie? (heavy duty sort of suggestion but you might find it valid, sooner or later)
Is grace a blanket or is it the entry permit? Is grace the invitation to enter or the walking stick we can use once in?
Is grace the embracing by covenant with Jesus or is it a new form of works?
IS grace the grafting in or is it the abiding life that flows and bears fruit?

Israel knew the LORD and had every right to have confidence towards Him and were able to worship Him and look to Him and call upon His name. The Gentiles did not.
Once we were children of darkness, but now are ye children of light... so now therefore... walk in the light.
The Jews have been blinded so that grace may be extended to the Gentiles. The Jews/Israel are provoked to jealousy over the Gentiles now having the access and blessings that were exclusively the rights and even birthrights of the children of Israel. Those who were once strangers and foreigners are now enjoying worship of the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and the privileges of the children of Israel.

Does grace do more that allow us to now be the children, for example, to walk as children of light, or are we responsible for our own walk. the word Grace is often used to say that the Lord empowers us to walk by grace. Is that really true? Or is it because of the grace of God in Jesus Christ the Lord that we now CAN walk in the Kingdom.

If I gave you a property and keys and title, etc it would be yours to live in and that means you can do whatever you want. Such is the degree of the grace of my giving. How you live there, be it making moonshine and running a brothel or by living righteously is up to you. I gave it to you. That was the grace extended to you.
If I am allowed to enter a country and become a resident or citizen, I have been shown grace. How i live is up to me, once in. If I break the rules of the land I shall be accountable. Is the Kingdom of heaven any different? And what of our daily walk, now?

Does any of this matter? If so, why and if not, why not?

So often we hear and use, ye are saved by grace. Yes, it is true. Is mercy now obsolete? If not, then how can it all be on the Grace? Surely if it is by grace we walk and do, then mercy is pointless and would be counter productive as grace has covered us in all things??

So, what is Grace?


Bless you ....><>

 

[Bendito]

Greetings again,

Do we misuse the term Grace and fit it with the doctrines and understandings (including interpretations) that we have one way or another grown up into and with?

Grace seems very broad when you hear it used.
What however is the Scriptural application of Grace. This means, by excluding all the extra uses of the term, what is Grace as Scripture uses the word and applies it to us/all/anyone?

I see the term Grace used across the forums [and near everywhere in Christian circles, big or small] and it is such a nice word to use to fill the gaps or put everything back into God's lap when it comes to alleviating us from accountability or effort or making the right choices or walking the walk that grace has enabled us to now walk.

Grace paid the price for us to enter the Kingdom.
Does grace also empower us or do we choose how to live in the Kingdom of God? Before typing, remember that many of the stories and parables that Jesus spoke regarding the Kingdom had good and bad, righteous and wicked, wise and foolish etc. Why?

Do we lean too heavily on our concept of grace and by doing so turn the truth of God into a lie? (heavy duty sort of suggestion but you might find it valid, sooner or later)
Is grace a blanket or is it the entry permit? Is grace the invitation to enter or the walking stick we can use once in?
Is grace the embracing by covenant with Jesus or is it a new form of works?
IS grace the grafting in or is it the abiding life that flows and bears fruit?

Israel knew the LORD and had every right to have confidence towards Him and were able to worship Him and look to Him and call upon His name. The Gentiles did not.
Once we were children of darkness, but now are ye children of light... so now therefore... walk in the light.
The Jews have been blinded so that grace may be extended to the Gentiles. The Jews/Israel are provoked to jealousy over the Gentiles now having the access and blessings that were exclusively the rights and even birthrights of the children of Israel. Those who were once strangers and foreigners are now enjoying worship of the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and the privileges of the children of Israel.

Does grace do more that allow us to now be the children, for example, to walk as children of light, or are we responsible for our own walk. the word Grace is often used to say that the Lord empowers us to walk by grace. Is that really true? Or is it because of the grace of God in Jesus Christ the Lord that we now CAN walk in the Kingdom.

If I gave you a property and keys and title, etc it would be yours to live in and that means you can do whatever you want. Such is the degree of the grace of my giving. How you live there, be it making moonshine and running a brothel or by living righteously is up to you. I gave it to you. That was the grace extended to you.
If I am allowed to enter a country and become a resident or citizen, I have been shown grace. How i live is up to me, once in. If I break the rules of the land I shall be accountable. Is the Kingdom of heaven any different? And what of our daily walk, now?

Does any of this matter? If so, why and if not, why not?

So often we hear and use, ye are saved by grace. Yes, it is true. Is mercy now obsolete? If not, then how can it all be on the Grace? Surely if it is by grace we walk and do, then mercy is pointless and would be counter productive as grace has covered us in all things??

So, what is Grace?


Bless you ....><>

Very well written my friend...This is from 'Strongs' It gives all the usages in the New Covenant. What you wrote covers it all.

1. grace
   
   1. that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
      
2. good will, loving-kindness, favour
   
   1. of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues
      
3. what is due to grace
   
   1. the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace
      
      
   2. the token or proof of grace, benefit
      
      1. a gift of grace
         
         
      2. benefit, bounty
         
4. thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward" The word covers it all in the Greek but the Hebrew in the Old Covenant uses more words. One for each component of Grace
   

 

[Bendito]

I played a lot of hockey in canada, I am not sure I agree with you on the polite thing either LOL but I do respect you !!

Well....hockey players can be...uh...difficult
LOLOL

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

How is it and where do we get the notion that Grace is unmerited favour? [or, God's Riches At Christ's Expense]

From Bendito's reply above we get a glimpse into the word 'grace'.
An English word and probably an old word, not necessarily up to date with our present vernacular?

The Greek word used and translated as Grace is charis and no, it is not related to charity which in Greek is 'agape'. [Charity is translated as love in most modern translations.]

Here is a list of the word 'charis' as found in the KJV and you will notice that there are some other words besides Grace

χάρις
charis
khar'-ece
Total KJV Occurrences: 151

abound, 1
2Co 9:8

acceptable, 1
1Pe 2:20

benefit, 1
2Co 1:15

favor, 6
Luk 1:30; Luk 2:52; Act 2:47; Act 7:10; Act 7:46; Act 25:3

gift, 1
2Co 8:4

grace, 128
Luk 2:40; Joh 1:14; Joh 1:16 ; Joh 1:17; Act 4:33; Act 11:23; Act 13:43; Act 14:3; Act 14:26; Act 15:11; Act 15:40; Act 18:27; Act 20:24; Act 20:32; Rom 1:5; Rom 1:7; Rom 3:24; Rom 4:4; Rom 4:16; Rom 5:2; Rom 5:15 ; Rom 5:17; Rom 5:20; Rom 5:21; Rom 6:1; Rom 6:14; Rom 6:15; Rom 11:5; Rom 11:6 ; Rom 12:3; Rom 12:6; Rom 15:15; Rom 16:20; Rom 16:24; 1Co 1:3; 1Co 1:4; 1Co 3:10; 1Co 10:30; 1Co 15:10 ; 1Co 16:23; 2Co 1:2; 2Co 1:12; 2Co 4:15; 2Co 6:1; 2Co 8:1; 2Co 8:6; 2Co 8:7; 2Co 8:9; 2Co 8:19; 2Co 9:14; 2Co 13:14; Gal 1:3; Gal 1:6; Gal 1:15; Gal 2:9; Gal 2:21; Gal 5:4; Gal 6:18; Eph 1:2; Eph 1:6; Eph 1:7; Eph 2:5; Eph 2:7; Eph 2:8; Eph 3:2; Eph 3:7; Eph 3:8; Eph 4:7; Eph 4:29; Eph 6:24; Phi 1:2; Phi 1:7; Phi 4:23; Col 1:2; Col 1:6; Col 3:16; Col 4:6; Col 4:18; 1Th 1:1; 1Th 5:28; 2Th 1:2; 2Th 1:12; 2Th 2:16; 2Th 3:18; 1Ti 1:2; 1Ti 1:14; 1Ti 6:21; 2Ti 1:2; 2Ti 1:9; 2Ti 2:1; 2Ti 4:22; Tit 1:4; Tit 2:11; Tit 3:7; Tit 3:15; Phm 1:3; Phm 1:25; Heb 2:9; Heb 4:16 ; Heb 10:29; Heb 12:15; Heb 12:28; Heb 13:9; Heb 13:25; Jas 4:6; 1Pe 1:2; 1Pe 1:10; 1Pe 1:13; 1Pe 3:7; 1Pe 4:10; 1Pe 5:5; 1Pe 5:10; 1Pe 5:12; 2Pe 1:2; 2Pe 3:18; 2Jn 1:3; Jud 1:4; Rev 1:4;

gracious, 1
Luk 4:22

joy, 1
Phm 1:7

liberality, 1
1Co 16:3

pleasure, 2
Act 24:27; Act 25:9

thank, 2
1Ti 1:12; 2Ti 1:3

thanked, 1
Rom 6:17

thanks, 4
1Co 15:57; 2Co 2:14; 2Co 8:16; 2Co 9:15

thankworthy, 1
1Pe 2:19

If you look up some of these you will see how the word is used and you might get a better understanding of the verses and of the term Grace


Bless you ....><>

ps
if anyone wants to look at the Old Testament Scripture you will see Grace used there too in a way that does not necessarily equate to unmerited favour.

 

[Dave M]

HEy Bear

"How is it and where do we get the notion that Grace is unmerited favour? [or, God's Riches At Christ's Expense]


II think you just answered your own question brother, Jesus did not have to die on the cross for us, we do not deserve heaven we deserve hell. Grace is getting a gift instead of punishment.

Jesus gave us a gift of dying on the cross and taking up our sins, more grace we did not deserve.

 

[amadeus2]

Please note that I am not saying the good words posted so far are wrong, but it came to me that the "grace" of God is simply describing in one word some of His special gifts to men. Consider the following verses:

"And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God." Ecc 3:13

"Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God." Ecc 5:19

"Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water." John 4:10

"But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money." Acts 8:20

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6:23

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

I wanted to ask these few questions again....

Does grace do more that allow us to now be the children, for example, to walk as children of light, or are we responsible for our own walk. the word Grace is often used to say that the Lord empowers us to walk by grace. Is that really true? Or is it because of the grace of God in Jesus Christ the Lord that we now CAN walk in the Kingdom.

If I gave you a property and keys and title, etc it would be yours to live in and that means you can do whatever you want. Such is the degree of the grace of my giving. How you live there, be it making moonshine and running a brothel or by living righteously is up to you. I gave it to you. That was the grace extended to you.
If I am allowed to enter a country and become a resident or citizen, I have been shown grace. How i live is up to me, once in. If I break the rules of the land I shall be accountable. Is the Kingdom of heaven any different? And what of our daily walk, now?

Does any of this matter? If so, why and if not, why not?

So often we hear and use, ye are saved by grace. Yes, it is true. Is mercy now obsolete? If not, then how can it all be on the Grace? Surely if it is by grace we walk and do, then mercy is pointless and would be counter productive as grace has covered us in all things??

So, what is Grace?

Bless you ....><>

 

[rstrats]

In a discussion about the trinity, I made the comment that it might be interesting to note that in none of Paul's greetings did he mention the Holy Spirit - that he only mentioned the father and the son, i.e., "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." That assertion was immediately rejected by someone who said that the Holy Spirit was indeed mentioned. They said that the word grace was referring to the Holy Spirit. Anyone here have any insight into this?

 

[Bendito]

In a discussion about the trinity, I made the comment that it might be interesting to note that in none of Paul's greetings did he mention the Holy Spirit - that he only mentioned the father and the son, i.e., "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." That assertion was immediately rejected by someone who said that the Holy Spirit was indeed mentioned. They said that the word grace was referring to the Holy Spirit. Anyone here have any insight into this?

Wow! That's great! Really, the person who rejected the statement was on the ball! And they were right too.
When you know the meaning of Grace you will easily see why. Grace is best defined as "The empowering PRESENCE of God in you, empowering you to do the things He has for you to do." And you have His empowering PRESENCE in you...The Holy spirit came in to dwell in you when you were born again.

 

[rstrats]

Bendito,
re: "Grace is best defined as 'The empowering PRESENCE of God in you..."

And this PRESENCE is a person who can have a conversation with the Father and the Son?

 

[Bendito]

Grace is when we get a reward for something that we should of got a punishment for.

Mercy is not getting the punishment

Dave, you just descr

Bendito,
re: "Grace is best defined as 'The empowering PRESENCE of God in you..."

And this PRESENCE is a person who can have a conversation with The Holy Spirit resides in you. He talks to you a lot. Its up to you now to learn His voice, and you can talk back, ask questions, make comments. In other words you can enjoy a conversation with Him all the time...
So many people you hear, complain that their prayers bounce off he ceiling. How can God hear them in heaven, but the truth is your prayers don't have to go past the end of your nose. He is a part of you now. You are a part of Him

 

[At Peace]

Greetings,

How is it and where do we get the notion that Grace is unmerited favour? [or, God's Riches At Christ's Expense]

From Bendito's reply above we get a glimpse into the word 'grace'.
An English word and probably an old word, not necessarily up to date with our present vernacular?

The Greek word used and translated as Grace is charis and no, it is not related to charity which in Greek is 'agape'. [Charity is translated as love in most modern translations.]

Here is a list of the word 'charis' as found in the KJV and you will notice that there are some other words besides Grace

χάρις
charis
khar'-ece
Total KJV Occurrences: 151

abound, 1
2Co 9:8

acceptable, 1
1Pe 2:20

benefit, 1
2Co 1:15

favor, 6
Luk 1:30; Luk 2:52; Act 2:47; Act 7:10; Act 7:46; Act 25:3

gift, 1
2Co 8:4

grace, 128
Luk 2:40; Joh 1:14; Joh 1:16 ; Joh 1:17; Act 4:33; Act 11:23; Act 13:43; Act 14:3; Act 14:26; Act 15:11; Act 15:40; Act 18:27; Act 20:24; Act 20:32; Rom 1:5; Rom 1:7; Rom 3:24; Rom 4:4; Rom 4:16; Rom 5:2; Rom 5:15 ; Rom 5:17; Rom 5:20; Rom 5:21; Rom 6:1; Rom 6:14; Rom 6:15; Rom 11:5; Rom 11:6 ; Rom 12:3; Rom 12:6; Rom 15:15; Rom 16:20; Rom 16:24; 1Co 1:3; 1Co 1:4; 1Co 3:10; 1Co 10:30; 1Co 15:10 ; 1Co 16:23; 2Co 1:2; 2Co 1:12; 2Co 4:15; 2Co 6:1; 2Co 8:1; 2Co 8:6; 2Co 8:7; 2Co 8:9; 2Co 8:19; 2Co 9:14; 2Co 13:14; Gal 1:3; Gal 1:6; Gal 1:15; Gal 2:9; Gal 2:21; Gal 5:4; Gal 6:18; Eph 1:2; Eph 1:6; Eph 1:7; Eph 2:5; Eph 2:7; Eph 2:8; Eph 3:2; Eph 3:7; Eph 3:8; Eph 4:7; Eph 4:29; Eph 6:24; Phi 1:2; Phi 1:7; Phi 4:23; Col 1:2; Col 1:6; Col 3:16; Col 4:6; Col 4:18; 1Th 1:1; 1Th 5:28; 2Th 1:2; 2Th 1:12; 2Th 2:16; 2Th 3:18; 1Ti 1:2; 1Ti 1:14; 1Ti 6:21; 2Ti 1:2; 2Ti 1:9; 2Ti 2:1; 2Ti 4:22; Tit 1:4; Tit 2:11; Tit 3:7; Tit 3:15; Phm 1:3; Phm 1:25; Heb 2:9; Heb 4:16 ; Heb 10:29; Heb 12:15; Heb 12:28; Heb 13:9; Heb 13:25; Jas 4:6; 1Pe 1:2; 1Pe 1:10; 1Pe 1:13; 1Pe 3:7; 1Pe 4:10; 1Pe 5:5; 1Pe 5:10; 1Pe 5:12; 2Pe 1:2; 2Pe 3:18; 2Jn 1:3; Jud 1:4; Rev 1:4;

gracious, 1
Luk 4:22

joy, 1
Phm 1:7

liberality, 1
1Co 16:3

pleasure, 2
Act 24:27; Act 25:9

thank, 2
1Ti 1:12; 2Ti 1:3

thanked, 1
Rom 6:17

thanks, 4
1Co 15:57; 2Co 2:14; 2Co 8:16; 2Co 9:15

thankworthy, 1
1Pe 2:19

If you look up some of these you will see how the word is used and you might get a better understanding of the verses and of the term Grace


Bless you ....><>

ps
if anyone wants to look at the Old Testament Scripture you will see Grace used there too in a way that does not necessarily equate to unmerited favour.

Wow!
That was a lot of work...thank you.
When I see the word 'grace' in scripture, I substitute "the ways and/or means of God".

 

[rstrats]

Bendito,
re: And this PRESENCE is a person who can have a conversation with The Holy Spirit..."

I thought you said that the PRESENCE is the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bendito]

Bendito,
re: And this PRESENCE is a person who can have a conversation with The Holy Spirit..."

I thought you said that the PRESENCE is the Holy Spirit.

Ok. I'm going to talk about you here. No Not gossip. LOL
You are a spirit. You have a soul. and...You live in a body. Right? You were made in the image of God. You too are a triune being...Ok
Now you walk into a room...Where is your presence felt? From your mind? No. Maybe from your body? Not at all...The fact that you're good looking has little to do with anything....Your SPIRIT is what makes the impact...your spirit interacts with the spirits of those around you... You are a presence in the group. If you had no spirit...well, you would not even be alive.
The very essence of God is His Spirit...He is the PRESENCE that lives joined to your spirit. Talk to Him