What is sin to a believer?

[regibassman57]

Hey Lacawar,
I think i called you King J. Sorry about that, I did not read the site right.

My thoughs on James 1:15: When I read this scripture, it seems to me James is talking to Jews, and he's talking to them in their own cultural understanding. Some of these Jews may also be babes as well as unbelievers. To know exactly who James was talking to, Galatians gives us that understanding.

Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision (Jews), the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision (Jews).

I don't believe James completely understands himself, at this point, what the spirit was teaching him in this revelation knowledge; he most likely had to mediate continually just as we do to gain the fulness of understanding; but he was led to present the information as he had it. James was teching these Jews what GOD was teaching him, but he presented the information in terms that the Jews could understand. He spoke to them on his level as well as on their. This is like Job. Job said, The Lord gives, and The Lord takes away; we know that is not true. We know the gift and the callings of GOD are without repentance (Romans 11:29) But this is many believers goto phase if they lose something.

The verse, James 1:15, is a verse of condemnation speaking as if they are still under the law. The wages of sin is death... (Romans 6:23) This is not a New Covenant fact, but the fact of the Law of Moses which the Jews understood. James also uses the work analogy to get these Jews to understand, though this is a faith walk, they are not only blessed through their faith, but they need works to confirm their faith.

Jam 1:25 But whoso looks into the perfect law of liberty, and continues therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Again, James ministered pretty much the same way Paul ministered. Each of them became and identified with their audience in culture in order to convince them of what they were saying..

1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I (Paul) became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

 

[regibassman57]

Hey there King J.
I would like to deal with three points that really has to do with my last reply to you about sin and death. Even though I was not speaking on the different types of punishment, maybe we can deal with that on another occasion; but my point to you was, if the cause of sin was cancelled, then the punishment was cancelled.

You said, Jesus takes us from death / sin / Abraham’s bosom and washes us clean.

I agree with you that Jesus takes us from death, sin and into (allegorically) Abraham’s bosom equally.

Then you said Jesus washes us clean (Heb 10:10, 12, 14) and grafts us into God’s family. I once again agree.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Christ has washed us from our “sins” (plural), past, present and future, once for all.

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed.

Healed from what?

Mar 2:17 … They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The righteous does not need to be healed from sin nor repent from sin. They must repent from their unfruitful works or dead works.

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repents, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which “need no repentance.”

The just (righteous) person does not need any repentance from sin as was said. The sinner is the ones that heaven is rejoicing over.

A person had to be cleansed from sin in order for them to be placed in the body of Christ. The Holy Ghost is not in our spirit, the Holy Ghost is in our body.

1Co 6:19 What? know you not that your “body” is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own?

I will let scripture continue to speak for itself.

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them (New Israel), when I shall take away their sins.

G851 (take away) Romans 11:27
af-ahee-reh'-o
From G575 and G138; to remove (literally or figuratively): - cut (smite) off, take away.

This is what Jesus has done on the cross. Colossians comes and confirms this definition of sin being cut off or out of New Israel, which is the Church of Jesus Christ, the body of Christ; New Covenant believers.

Col 2:11 In whom also you (New Covenant Believers) are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

The sins (plural) of the “flesh” (that which people say, because we are in the flesh, we still sin), has been “put off” of "cut out" of the body of believers (not the spirit); by the circumcision of Christ. This next scripture prophesies of Christ’s coming to take away sins. Jesus will be the last man to experience the wrath of GOD where sin is concerned in this life.

Dan 9:24 … (Jesus came) to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

We know Jesus is the anointed one, the Messiah which comes to take away all the sin of the world and its nature.

Joh 1:29 The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and said, Behold the Lamb of God, which “takes away” the “sin” (singular pointing to the nature of sin, not plural which points to individual sins) of the world.

G142 (take away) John 1:29
ah'ee-ro
A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

This next verse teaches us that Paul is talking to Gentile believers. They were grafted out of the olive tree which was wild by nature; the nature of sin.

Rom 11:24 For if thou were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to “nature” into a good olive tree (the body of Christ): how much more shall these, which be the natural branches (Jews), be grafted into their own olive tree? (they did not believe as a nation)

The law, as we know it, could not take away sin, only cover them. Neither could the law make a believer perfect.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

I always ask this question: Perfect from what?

Heb 10:2 If these sacrifices could have made the worshipers perfect, the sacrifices would have stopped long ago. Those who worship would have been cleansed once and for all. Their consciences would have been free from sin.

This did not say, perfect from the punishment of sin.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he (Jesus) has perfected forever them that are sanctified.

Sanctified from what forever?

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;

There are so many more scriptures to confirm that believers are made free from sin. We have to search GOD’s word as hidden treasure.

I hope you continue to question, that we both can continue to learn.

 

[KingJ]

There are so many more scriptures to confirm that believers are made free from sin. We have to search GOD’s word as hidden treasure.

I hope you continue to question, that we both can continue to learn.

It seems as though we agree on all except 'maybe' one point.

Believers free from sin. We are free from the curse of sin. The law of sin and death. We are not free from sin. Never will be.

 

[regibassman57]

King J. have you been sanctified from sin forever?

 

[Ivar]

"the following is informal i have not cited the specific scriptures ; articulating this was a nightmare in itself but i like the stimulation"
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Believers are free from the law of the wages of sin. True believers are not under the letter of The Law but Spirit of The Law. True believers do well so all will be well with them.
"Having an understanding and obedience to The Lord plus treating his creation as we would like to be treated is the spirit of the law."
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We cannot keep the letter of the law however we can keep the spirit of the law which is expedient and what really matters.
For example one could say Christ broke the letter of the law healing on the sabbath. however, he was in line with the spirit of the law "not to mention being lord of sabbath" which is truth. "Anyone would want to be healed no matter what day it is- (treating others as you would like to be treated). plus the sabbath is also for recovery"
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The letter of the law is only for those that break the spirit of the law; And as true believers do not break the spirit of the law "they cannot sin"
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One person said " @KingJ " Only The Lord is Good which is true; However if we are joined unto The Lord "thru our Lord" then we believers are also good .

No man has not sinned and/or we all have inclination to sin; So Christ is our Passover Lamb for our pass sins and inclination to sin before we discover the spirit of the law or by nature do the things contained in the spirit of the law.
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[KingJ]

King J. have you been sanctified from sin forever?

Sancitified, yes.

 

[KingJ]

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One person said " @KingJ " Only The Lord is Good which is true; However if we are joined unto The Lord "thru our Lord" then we believers are also good .

No man has not sinned and/or we all have inclination to sin; So Christ is our Passover Lamb for our pass sins and inclination to sin before we discover the spirit of the law or by nature do the things contained in the spirit of the law.
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Agree, but we need to clarify. We are good to God, because He sees us through the cross. For all eternity. Not because we ourselves are good. We in fact are sinful. For all eternity.

 

[Ivar]

@regibassman57 True. Believers are not free from sin if they fall away, become lukewarm, or not endure until the end.

The other individual is correct to because if believers do not fall away, become lukewarm, or not endure until the end; then they would be sanctified forever.

Sometimes their is more than one answer depending on the context. Like when Christ asked the Pharisees

Matthew 22:42-46 King James Version (KJV)
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.

43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

 

[Ivar]

Agree, but we need to clarify. We are good to God, because He sees us through the cross. For all eternity. Not because we ourselves are good. We in fact are sinful. For all eternity.

@KingJ
calling me sinful is one thing but calling those that The Lord sees as blameless is another. Also the cross is a graven image "we need to clarify". He sees us thru the Passover lamb and following his examples. God is Good and the source from which we came from however our flesh is corrupted because we do have or developed an inclination to Sin.

Their is evidence of the potential of Man to be good being led by the Spirit and Their is also evidence for Man to be Bad being led by the Flesh.

Man is Good or can be good but we need the examples of Christ or by nature do the things contained in the Spirit of The Law.
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In my opinion your words promote a sense of un-accountability , lawlessness and graven image worship "even if that is not your intentions". But maybe it's all in my head.
It calls in to mind Jude 1:4

Jude 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Hebrews 6:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.
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Philippians 4:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

[regibassman57]

What's up King J.
I thought i'd send you a little more understanidng from my view point and maybe we can find that one hundred percent oneness in Christ on this subject of sin.

GRACE AND SINS RELATIONSHIP

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

G4121 (abound)

pleh-on-ad'-zo

From G4119; to do, make or be more, that is, increase (transitively or intransitively); by extension to superabound: - abound, abundant, make to increase, have over.

Sin is darkness and grace is the light that “super-abounds” over sin (darkness). Where there is light super-abounding, it is impossible for darkness to be seen. God is the judge, and He says He does not see sin in believers, because of the light of His Son.

God sees Jesus, and His work of condemnation for all the sins of the world. These are the sins that were place upon his Son and condemned once for all (1Peter 2:24 and 2Corithians 5:21).

It is impossible for darkness to appear in a believer's heart if light is there super-abounding. God cannot see sin, known as darkness, because of the light of grace. Jesus said, I will never leave you nor forsake you (Heb 13:5). Light is the cleansing agent for sin, and if the light will never leave, darkness can never be seen because the cleansing agent of Grace is at work once for all repelling the punishment as well as the label (Sin).

We as believers are also in the body of Christ where there is no darkness. So, if there is no darkness in a believer’s heart, because the light of life abides there, sin does not abide there. Light and darkness cannot coexist in one place.

There is also no darkness in the body of Christ where believers abide. Where does that leave sin and darkness abiding? I would think in “condemnation” where Jesus condemned “sin” and “death;” the punishment as well as the cause (Romans 8:2).

1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

The question would be then, is there any darkness in the body of believers? The answer would be, NO; because that would not be possible.

Where light is, darkness cannot be comprehended.

1Co 6:19 What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own?

Not even the body can sin. As long as the Holy Ghost is occupying a believer’s body, sin cannot be a part of it; because darkness cannot be seen through grace. If God was imputing sin it would mean He recognizes sin in a person. But as long as God is not imputing sin, He does not account, conclude or reckon a believer to have sinned.

Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he lives, he lives unto God.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

G3049 (reckon)
log-id'-zom-ahee
Middle voice from G3056; to take an inventory, that is, estimate (literally or figuratively): - conclude, (ac-) count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on).

We know that dead men tell no tells. If a believer is dead to sin, then they have no rememberance of it. This is how Solomon and David explains a dead man:

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

This is why believers have no reward for their sins; and why we should not have any rememberance of sin; we live in Christ where there is no sin. The just shall live by faith.

Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of you: in the grave who shall give you thanks?

David asked this question to God; which is an understanding for believers today regarding light and darkness.

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?

Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, you are there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, you are there.

Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

Psa 139:10 Even there shall your hand lead me, and your right hand shall hold me.

Psa 139:11 If I say, surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.

Psa 139:12 Yea, the darkness hides not from you; but the night shines as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to you.

If the darkness and the light are both alike to God, and God being a righteous Judge, what is it that disqualifies a person if they walk in darkness?

Answer: If a man is justified by the law and not by Jesus Christ; who is Grace, they are condemned because the law said so. It is only by the law that the knowledge of sin is present. Only those who are “under” the law or the “School Master” can be told they’ve sinned.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things so ever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

The Judicial Law, Sacrificial Law and Ceremonial Laws came by Moses, but grace is only by Jesus Christ.

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

By the law is the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20). If we remove the law that condemned, the Judicial Law, we remove the “knowledge” of sin.

The “whole Law” was considered to be the “Judicial Law, Sacrificial Law, Ceremonial Law and the Moral Law; the Ten Commandments.

If we take away the Ceremonial Laws, the punishment and knowledge of sins still exist. If we take away the Ceremonial Laws and the Sacrificial Laws; the punishment and the knowledge of sins still exist. If we take away the Ceremonial Laws, the Sacrificial Laws and the Judicial Laws, then we’ve taken away the punishment as well as the knowledge of sin. It is by the Judicial Laws, “only,” that the punishment and the knowledge of sin exist.

What, am I saying the law as a whole is sin? Paul asked this question:

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid (NO!). Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shall not covet.

Timothy sheds light on the subject:

1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Paul confirms what Timothy said:

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Paul continues to shed light on the subject in order to clarify his point and remedy the confusion.

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The law revealed the Satan's character of deception; specifically the Ten Commandments. Any character which is contrary to the commandments of Love, are of the devil.

 

[regibassman57]

King J.
I just read the post you just sent as I was sending out mine. Ask me what my thoughts are on the punishment for "unfruitful works." I've not once said a believer is not accountable.

 

[regibassman57]

What's up Ivar, I sent this also to King J.
What you said i agree with to a point. "True believers are not under the letter of The Law but Spirit of The Law."

Our divide is when you said, believers are under the spirit of the law. It seems you are saying that because we are under the spirit of the law, we sin.

The spirit of God, who is the law is not imputing sin unto us. This is because there is no law of condemnation. Sin and condemnation go hand in hand. If there is a law that condemns, then there will be sin. If there is no law that condemns, there is no sin.

1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

All things are lawful for me, but if I make the choice to do contrary to Love, I cannot put on the character of Christ. If I will not put on the character of Christ, I will give account on the day of Judgment and possibly find myself hanging out with satan.

GRACE AND SINS RELATIONSHIP
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

G4121 (abound)

pleh-on-ad'-zo

From G4119; to do, make or be more, that is, increase (transitively or intransitively); by extension to superabound: - abound, abundant, make to increase, have over.

Sin is darkness and grace is the light that “super-abounds” over sin (darkness). Where there is light super-abounding, it is impossible for darkness to be seen. God is the judge, and He says He does not see sin in believers, because of the light of His Son.

God sees Jesus, and His work of condemnation for all the sins of the world. These are the sins that were place upon his Son and condemned once for all (1Peter 2:24 and 2Corithians 5:21).

It is impossible for darkness to appear in a believer's heart if light is there super-abounding. God cannot see sin, known as darkness, because of the light of grace. Jesus said, I will never leave you nor forsake you (Heb 13:5). Light is the cleansing agent for sin, and if the light will never leave, darkness can never be seen because the cleansing agent of Grace is at work once for all repelling the punishment as well as the label (Sin).

We as believers are also in the body of Christ where there is no darkness. So, if there is no darkness in a believer’s heart, because the light of life abides there, sin does not abide there. Light and darkness cannot coexist in one place.

There is also no darkness in the body of Christ where believers abide. Where does that leave sin and darkness abiding? I would think in “condemnation” where Jesus condemned “sin” and “death;” the punishment as well as the cause (Romans 8:2).

1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

The question would be then, is there any darkness in the body of believers? The answer would be, NO; because that would not be possible.

Where light is, darkness cannot be comprehended.

1Co 6:19 What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own?

Not even the body can sin. As long as the Holy Ghost is occupying a believer’s body, sin cannot be a part of it; because darkness cannot be seen through grace. If God was imputing sin it would mean He recognizes sin in a person. But as long as God is not imputing sin, He does not account, conclude or reckon a believer to have sinned.

Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he lives, he lives unto God.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

G3049 (reckon)
log-id'-zom-ahee
Middle voice from G3056; to take an inventory, that is, estimate (literally or figuratively): - conclude, (ac-) count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on).

We know that dead men tell no tells.:smile: If a believer is dead to sin, then they have no rememberance of it. This is how Solomon and David explains a dead man:

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

This is why believers have no reward for their sins; and why we should not have any rememberance of sin; we live in Christ where there is no sin. The just shall live by faith.

Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of you: in the grave who shall give you thanks?

David asked this question to God; which is an understanding for believers today regarding light and darkness.

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?

Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, you are there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, you are there.

Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

Psa 139:10 Even there shall your hand lead me, and your right hand shall hold me.

Psa 139:11 If I say, surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.

Psa 139:12 Yea, the darkness hides not from you; but the night shines as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to you.

If the darkness and the light are both alike to God, and God being a righteous Judge, what is it that disqualifies a person if they walk in darkness?

Answer: If a man is justified by the law and not by Jesus Christ; who is Grace, they are condemned because the law said so. It is only by the law that the knowledge of sin is present. Only those who are “under” the law or the “School Master” can be told they’ve sinned.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things so ever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

The Judicial Law, Sacrificial Law and Ceremonial Laws came by Moses, but grace is only by Jesus Christ.

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

By the law is the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20). If we remove the law that condemned, the Judicial Law, we remove the “knowledge” of sin.

The “whole Law” was considered to be the “Judicial Law, Sacrificial Law, Ceremonial Law and the Moral Law; the Ten Commandments.

If we take away the Ceremonial Laws, the punishment and knowledge of sins still exist. If we take away the Ceremonial Laws and the Sacrificial Laws; the punishment and the knowledge of sins still exist. If we take away the Ceremonial Laws, the Sacrificial Laws and the Judicial Laws, then we’ve taken away the punishment as well as the knowledge of sin. It is by the Judicial Laws, “only,” that the punishment and the knowledge of sin exist.

What, am I saying the law as a whole is sin? Paul asked this question:

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid (NO!). Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shall not covet.

Timothy sheds light on the subject:

1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Paul confirms what Timothy said:

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Paul continues to shed light on the subject in order to clarify his point and remedy the confusion.

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The law revealed the Satan's character of deception; specifically the Ten Commandments. Any character which is contrary to the commandments of Love, are of the devil.

 

[regibassman57]

Question: What do you think this scripture is saying:

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he (Jesus)is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

 

[regibassman57]

What is this scripture saying to you King J?

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

 

[Ivar]

Our divide is when you said, believers are under the spirit of the law. It seems you are saying that because we are under the spirit of the law, we sin.

@regibassman57

Those under the spirit of the law that become lukewarm, lack endurance, fall away,etc will more than likely sin; Possibly falling back under the letter of the law unless they repent. This is a theory of mines based off scripture but I don't have time to really meditate and pull them all out. I will get atleast one;

1 Timothy 1:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
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I suspect that Lot's wife was under the Spirit of The Law but disobeyed so went under The Letter of The Law ; "though technically it wasn't given until Moses"
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Spirit of The Law= For the blameless/Obedient/lovers of God with all their heart,etc
Letter of the Law= For Lawless and Disobedient
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Lastly Scripture says be off few words so be careful when you spam soo much verses. There is such a things as too much seed or water at one time. LOL
I'm also working on that myself.

Proverbs 17:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.
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Very Respectfully
Ivar

 

[regibassman57]

Ivar,
I appreciate you educating me on that

I agree those that become lukewarm are they that lack endurance and can fall away. This is demonstrated in the parable of the sower of the seed (Matthew 13:19-24). It explains as we continue to read that those who fall away are the tares.

Matthew 13:41 and other scriptures within the chapter tells us they will be gathered out of the Kingdom of God and cast into the fire unless they repent. But they are not repenting from sin, but from unfruitful works. Unfruitful works are covered by grace. As the law dictated sins, Grace dictates to unfruitful works.

I also realize this is semantics but by our word we shall be justified and by our words we shall be condemned. Either Christ took away the sin or the world , as it literally says (John 1:29), or He didn't. If I say He took away the sins of the world and then say, but i still sin, I'm confused; and this is not of God.

 

[bibleguy]

@regibassman57

First and foremost sin is what the scripture says

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
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Sin is or encompasses not following the two greatest commandments and golden rule which is the sum of the law and the prophets
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Sin encompasses not "hearing / understanding/ listening / obeying" that The Lord our God is one lord; and not loving him with all our heart, soul, strength/mind

Sin encompasses not loving our neighbor as ourselves

Sin encompasses not treating people as you would like to be treated.
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And Sin can also be broken down further "but i think this is a good overall perspective"

Yes, sin is violation of the law (Torah).

But then, this means we should not violate Torah, as Christians...right?

 

[Ivar]

Yes, sin is violation of the law (Torah).

But then, this means we should not violate Torah, as Christians...right?

@bibleguy

If possible; Ideally yes, to the best of our abilities.
Technically a Christian is supposed to be a follower of Christ and Christ did follow Torah.

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At a minimum walking in the fruits of the spirit and doing the things contained in the nature of the law; Such as treating people as we would like to be treated, and understanding that there is a Source of Creation while seeking his knowledge.

One could say Moses brought the letter of the law; However Christ brought fullness of grace and truth concerning the law.

 

[regibassman57]

Bibleguy,
What do you think I mean by "unfruitful works; or I should say, what does the bible say and mean about unfruitful works?

 

[Dave M]

you know I recently read what might be a sin to a new believer in his mind is a sin if he commits that act and yet its not a sin to a more mature believer unless he causes the new believer to stumble to in that sin.
this was in

1 Corinthians 8:13
Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.