WHAT IS SIN?

[Truth_seeker2022]

In context, ... God would prevent them from eating the tree of life in becoming as one of us "as deities", ( another reference for plurality within the One God as the Triune God ) which would mean eternal separation from God and the lake of fire with Satan & his fallen angels since Satan & his fallen angels cannot die either and so the second death would have come but thanks to God, mankind was driven out of the Garden of Eden.

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Since unbelief in God & His words, they were already condemned by His word to the first death, physical death, but needed to be protected from living forever in sin resulting as a second death; the lake of fire.

Genesis3:22: "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever".

The above verse says as simply as they gain life by eating the fruit from the tree of life, they gain the forbidden knowledge of good and evil by eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Hope yoi now understand.

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

Since this was written...

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Then scripture cannot go against scripture and so let us look at your reference in context.

Deuteronomy 1:30 The Lord your God which goeth before you, he shall fight for you, according to all that he did for you in Egypt before your eyes; 31 And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the Lord thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place.

32 Yet in this thing ye did not believe the Lord your God,

33 Who went in the way before you, to search you out a place to pitch your tents in, in fire by night, to shew you by what way ye should go, and in a cloud by day. 34 And the Lord heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying, 35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers.

36 Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him will I give the land that he hath trodden upon, and to his children, because he hath wholly followed the Lord.

37 Also the Lord was angry with me for your sakes, saying, Thou also shalt not go in thither. 38 But Joshua the son of Nun, which standeth before thee, he shall go in thither: encourage him: for he shall cause Israel to inherit it. 39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it. 40 But as for you, turn you, and take your journey into the wilderness by the way of the Red sea.

In context, this is about why children can go in to inherit the land from those parents that cannot because they did not believe God. Those forbidden were worried about the fate of the children as falling prey to the enemies of the land they came to inherit, and therefore did not believe God would take care of them and their families should they go in to the promised land. Their children had no knowledge of their parents' good and evil; their unbelief in God, for why they were allowed to enter therein but not their unbelieving parents or guardians.

Essentially, Adam sin was not believing God at His word regarding eating the fruit of the tree of the forbidden knowledge of good and evil but hearkened unto the woman instead. So the knowledge of good and evil was and is unbelief in God & His words.

Children that go astray from the womb speaking lies as they be born, would testify to them inheriting sin, having knowledge of good and evil for not believing God for they do know better than to lie once they are born.

With reference to the moral law, Adam and Eve committed the sin of staying unclothed in God's most holy presence.

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

The knowledge to know good from evil is not sin because God knows it as well….
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The sin was transgressing the Command of God not to eat. What many may not understand is what the tree of knowledge represents . The tree of knowledge represents the law of God, for by the law we have the knowledge of good and evil.

This is why after eating of the tree Adam and Eve saw their own nakedness . Nakedness in scripture is symbolic of having one’s sins exposed.

Paul describes what the serpent did by using the example of the law in
Romans 7:11
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”

God told Adam and Eve that they would die the day they ate from the tree, but the serpent told them they would not die, but would be like God.
Genesis 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shallnot surely die:”

This is what Paul is showing here about the law of God.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”

The law is not what caused the death, but rather sin; as the wage of sin is death. Man could never keep the law of God because of the weakness of his flesh. That is why we can never gain eternal life by keeping all the laws of God.

This is why God put the tree of Life in the Garden, which represents Gods Word of life in Jesus Christ.

If choosing the knowledge to know good from evil is not sin because God knows it as well, why did God create them without the knowledge of good and evil?

If Adam and Eve were created with knowledge of the moral law, why did God create them to stay unclothed in God's most holy presence?

Sin gains life only after the person chooses the moral law (Romans7:9: "when the commandment came, sin sprang to life").

 

[Bob Carabbio]

If God told you directly not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then created your wife and you told her what God had said, for why the devil went after your wife to trick her, and you "listened" to your wife "hearkening" unto her rather than believe God & His words, is your sin and thus it is Adam's sin of unbelief in God & His words.

So salvation has to come by what? By believing in Jesus Christ and His words thus repenting from the sin of unbelief in God & His words which is sin of the knowledge of good & evil. @joestue

Correction: HAVING FAITH (Heb 11:1) which is gifted by God (Eph 2:8,9). "believing" is all well and good, but there's no "Substance" to it, and it's not "Evidence" of anything at all.

 

[Curtis]

Sin is not just doing something that is told you NOT to DO, sin is also something you don't do that you were told to do!

The very "first" thing God told Adam (before mentioning the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) was to "guard" the garden. There would be no reason to guard the garden unless there was something evil that could find its way in.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Gen 2:15 The LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden in order to have him work it and guard it.

If Adam did not guard the garden in which he was told to do by God is that sin to him?

 

[GodB4Us]

So you no more judge any act as evil?

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Jesus did it when He was on earth and so, yes, by His grace and by His help, I expose the works of darkness by His words but it is still on Him to cause the increase.

Ephesians 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

As for the initial sin from which all other works of darkness stems from, I believe the sin of unbelief in God & His words is the knowledge of good & evil for why else would Adam hearken unto the woman's word other than to doubt His words even though he had heard them directly from God Himself? For Adam to doubt is to not believe God & His word. And so sin entered the world and death by sin as all other sins & works of darkness come forth from that sin of unbelief in God & His words.

 

[GodB4Us]

Were only rhe Jews under the moral law? Didn't you sin by choosing the moral law as you grew up?

Since scripture testify of the wicked sinning as soon as they be born, speaking lies..... then every one born is under sin and its sinful influence.

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

 

[GodB4Us]

Wasn't it the knowledge of good and evil which they chose, lead them to feel guilty of staying unclothed in God's most holy presence?

Yes, their unbelief in God and His words led them to feel naked & thus ashamed in His Presence.

 

[GodB4Us]

Genesis3:22: "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever".

The above verse says as simply as they gain life by eating the fruit from the tree of life, they gain the forbidden knowledge of good and evil by eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Hope yoi now understand.

Scripture is not always clear when translated into English from the Hebrew, let alone the Greek.

It is that now part that has me suspecting it otherwise that by eating that tree of life would be how they would become as God is, immortal, but they would be separated from God forever like Satan & his fallen angels thus unredeemable as stuck in that sin of unbelief in God and His words. I do not know for sure if that "and now" is including that latter part of that verse with what was stated in the former part of that verse.

Genesis3:22: "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever".

I realize that we prophesy in part and know in part and so unless the Lord gives me wisdom before that time when I see Him face to face to know all things, that is where I am at for now.

 

[GodB4Us]

Correction: HAVING FAITH (Heb 11:1) which is gifted by God (Eph 2:8,9). "believing" is all well and good, but there's no "Substance" to it, and it's not "Evidence" of anything at all.

Not sure how you can say that when you acknowledge it is a gift of God? Since the Father has to draw us unto the son per John 6:44 to reveal His Son to us so we can believe in Him ( Matthew 11:25-27 ) then our believing in Him is a work of God. John 3:18-21 Our believing in Him is evidence.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Not sure how you can say that when you acknowledge it is a gift of God? Since the Father has to draw us unto the son per John 6:44 to reveal His Son to us so we can believe in Him ( Matthew 11:25-27 ) then our believing in Him is a work of God. John 3:18-21 Our believing in Him is evidence.

The devil and his demons "believe", but I doubt they're "saved" by that belief. "Belief" isn't a gift. FAITH (Heb 11:1) is the gift.

 

[GodB4Us]

The devil and his demons "believe", but I doubt they're "saved" by that belief. "Belief" isn't a gift. FAITH (Heb 11:1) is the gift.

They are already condemned and cannot be redeemed. Big difference.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Belief is a gift when you consider the Father drew us unto the Son to reveal His Son to us so we can believe in Him to be saved. And I am not really seeing much of a difference between belief and faith either as far as the Christian goes

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

Scripture is not always clear when translated into English from the Hebrew, let alone the Greek.

It is that now part that has me suspecting it otherwise that by eating that tree of life would be how they would become as God is, immortal, but they would be separated from God forever like Satan & his fallen angels thus unredeemable as stuck in that sin of unbelief in God and His words. I do not know for sure if that "and now" is including that latter part of that verse with what was stated in the former part of that verse.

Genesis3:22: "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever".

I realize that we prophesy in part and know in part and so unless the Lord gives me wisdom before that time when I see Him face to face to know all things, that is where I am at for now.

Gen3:22: "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever".

In this verse, God considers not only the 'eating' but the 'knowing' good & evil as the problem. In the name of 'prophesy in part' avoid denying clarity & distorting the truth.

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

Yes, their unbelief in God and His words led them to feel naked & thus ashamed in His Presence.

You say 'God's word' & deny it's substance. It's the forbidden knowledge of good and evil which entered their heart & accused Adam and Eve of sinning by staying unclothed in God's most holy presence.

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

Since scripture testify of the wicked sinning as soon as they be born, speaking lies..... then every one born is under sin and its sinful influence.

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

'Speaking lies' refers to acts not to the moral law which accuses those acts as sinful. You are confused!

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Jesus did it when He was on earth and so, yes, by His grace and by His help, I expose the works of darkness by His words but it is still on Him to cause the increase.

Ephesians 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

As for the initial sin from which all other works of darkness stems from, I believe the sin of unbelief in God & His words is the knowledge of good & evil for why else would Adam hearken unto the woman's word other than to doubt His words even though he had heard them directly from God Himself? For Adam to doubt is to not believe God & His word. And so sin entered the world and death by sin as all other sins & works of darkness come forth from that sin of unbelief in God & His words.

Are you saying staying unclothed in God's most holy presence is a 'work of darkness'?

 

[GodB4Us]

Gen3:22: "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever".

In this verse, God considers not only the 'eating' but the 'knowing' good & evil as the problem. In the name of 'prophesy in part' avoid denying clarity & distorting the truth.

I did address that "and now" part for why I have yet to discern the latter end of that message if it is being part of how man is become as "one of us" knowing good and evil, in also being potentially immortal like the Lord.

I see your point regarding the separation of the two topic by the "and now" but is it not true that to live forever is also becoming "one of us" too?

I see no distorting of the truth for trying to discern that truth with the Lord for why the words "and now" was between the two topics that you see as a separate event which it is, but I wonder if the "and now" infers the two topics together also by how that can also be as "one of us" and not just having the knowledge of good and evil. Almost like saying :....

Gen3:22: "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" ....."as one of us also".

It does not say that at the end, but is that not the message or the truth also even when those words are not added at the end to convey my uncertainty & need for discernment with the Lord? Hence the prophesy in part & know in part...

Is that the truth also, or do we just take it as separate event as you and I would read normally?

It just seems like we are delving deep into His words regarding what that knowledge of good & evil is in how it has affected us, but of course, has not affected God in having that knowledge of good and evil.

If the Lord will provide clarity thru you, feel free to share or to correct, but I do not believe I was avoiding clarity nor distorting the truth when I have an uncertainty about why and how "and now" was being used in scripture by Him.

Is it perhaps I am delving more deeply than I should be into His words? Probably, which by your "rebuke", I reckon I should keep such uncertainties to myself from now on even though I see another truth being possibly conveyed here.

 

[GodB4Us]

You say 'God's word' & deny it's substance. It's the forbidden knowledge of good and evil which entered their heart & accused Adam and Eve of sinning by staying unclothed in God's most holy presence.

I would say that before they ate the forbidden fruit, they were doubting God and His words, and so having eaten the forbidden fruit is the sin of not believing God and His words for why they felt naked & ashamed in His Presence.

Since God had to clothed them with skins, I am not sure Adam & Eve had that knowledge to do that, but I also wonder if this a prophetic action in how God will clothe us in Christ Jesus so we can be in His Presence & He has for all those that believe in Jesus Christ & His words.

 

[GodB4Us]

'Speaking lies' refers to acts not to the moral law which accuses those acts as sinful. You are confused!

How do you apply these verses?

Romans 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

How can the uncircumcised Gentiles keep the righteousness of the moral law?

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Is Jesus saying this is a golden rule of the moral law that even the Gentiles know for how and why they can judge the Jews per the moral laws just by that golden rule?

 

[GodB4Us]

Are you saying staying unclothed in God's most holy presence is a 'work of darkness'?

Delving deep into my words?

I suppose so since they wish to hide themselves from the Lord and darkness would be better in hiding their nakedness from the Lord for not believing in God & His words.

They did sew figs leaves together to hide their nakedness and yet they were still ashamed as if still naked for when the Lord came and they hid themselves from the Lord anyway.

One has to discern why God had asked them who had told them that they were naked.

Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. 8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden. 9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

It seems to me that God had to clothed them with skins for them to stop feeling naked before Him.