WHAT IS SIN?

[Truth_seeker2022]

Delving deep into my words?

I suppose so since they wish to hide themselves from the Lord and darkness would be better in hiding their nakedness from the Lord for not believing in God & His words.

They did sew figs leaves together to hide their nakedness and yet they were still ashamed as if still naked for when the Lord came and they hid themselves from the Lord anyway.

One has to discern why God had asked them who had told them that they were naked.

Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. 8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden. 9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

It seems to me that God had to clothed them with skins for them to stop feeling naked before Him.

Are you saying staying unclothed in God's most holy presence is a 'work of darkness' before they ate the forbidden fruit? Avoid dodging.

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

How do you apply these verses?

Romans 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

How can the uncircumcised Gentiles keep the righteousness of the moral law?

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Is Jesus saying this is a golden rule of the moral law that even the Gentiles know for how and why they can judge the Jews per the moral laws just by that golden rule?

'Speaking lies' is an act. Moral law says 'Don't speak lies'.

You are incorrectly saying 'speaking lies' is the moral law.

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

I would say that before they ate the forbidden fruit, they were doubting God and His words, and so having eaten the forbidden fruit is the sin of not believing God and His words for why they felt naked & ashamed in His Presence.

Since God had to clothed them with skins, I am not sure Adam & Eve had that knowledge to do that, but I also wonder if this a prophetic action in how God will clothe us in Christ Jesus so we can be in His Presence & He has for all those that believe in Jesus Christ & His words.

If they had the moral knowledge prior to eating the forbidden fruit, they would not have stayed unclothed in God's most holy presence.

 

[GodB4Us]

Are you saying staying unclothed in God's most holy presence is a 'work of darkness' before they ate the forbidden fruit?

No. I did not say that. What comment of mine would lead you that I had inferred or even implied that when they were hiding from Him because they believed were naked after having eaten the forbidden fruit?

Avoid dodging.

I'll give grace for what apparently you are not giving.

 

[GodB4Us]

'Speaking lies' is an act. Moral law says 'Don't speak lies'.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is a golden rule that Gentiles can understand.

You are incorrectly saying 'speaking lies' is the moral law.

I believe you know what I mean, but then again, it seems maybe you really don't. Speaking lies is against the moral law because that would be doing unto others what you do not want them to do unto you. Does that clarify my belief?

 

[GodB4Us]

If they had the moral knowledge prior to eating the forbidden fruit, they would not have stayed unclothed in God's most holy presence.

They could not have the moral knowledge prior to the forbidden fruit because the consequence for eating the forbidden fruit was not known until after the forbidden fruit was eaten; thereby having the knowledge of good and evil.

Kind of like having eaten that forbidden fruit, they realized they should not have done that, thus recognizing the moral law.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

They are already condemned and cannot be redeemed. Big difference.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Belief is a gift when you consider the Father drew us unto the Son to reveal His Son to us so we can believe in Him to be saved. And I am not really seeing much of a difference between belief and faith either as far as the Christian goes

The difference is that YOU have to hold onto and defend "Belief" (Mental assent), but FAITH (Biblical FAITH Heb 11:1) holds onto to YOU.

90% of what the "Church" CALLS FAITH, isn't faith at all.

 

[GodB4Us]

The difference is that YOU have to hold onto and defend "Belief" (Mental assent), but FAITH (Biblical FAITH Heb 11:1) holds onto to YOU.

90% of what the "Church" CALLS FAITH, isn't faith at all.

When a believer stops believing because of an error that has overthrown that faith whereby they become former believers and deny Him verbally, it is because of that initial belief, Jesus still abides in that former believer for He is faithful.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

That is why there is no need for the former believer to be "saved again: by going through the motions of what a new believer in Jesus Christ would go through along with water baptism, because he is still saved. To suggest otherwise would be akin to crucifying Jesus Christ all over again which is why it is not possible to "renew ourselves" like that but only to ask for forgiveness and His help to turn from that sin & to not do it again.

That is why in correcting those that have gone astray, it is to rebuke or correct the lie that turned them away from Him since they already know the gospel, and so repenting from that lie to abide in him again is how they can be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House. Otherwise, they get denied by Him and left behind even though they are still saveed because He still abides for why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth verse 20

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

They could not have the moral knowledge prior to the forbidden fruit because the consequence for eating the forbidden fruit was not known until after the forbidden fruit was eaten; thereby having the knowledge of good and evil.

Kind of like having eaten that forbidden fruit, they realized they should not have done that, thus recognizing the moral law.

Forget Adam and Eve. So 'you' admit that they didn't have the moral knowledge before they ate the fruit?

Is staying unclothed in God's most holy presence a mark of discipleship?

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is a golden rule that Gentiles can understand.

I believe you know what I mean, but then again, it seems maybe you really don't. Speaking lies is against the moral law because that would be doing unto others what you do not want them to do unto you. Does that clarify my belief?

'Speaking lies' is an act. It is not the moral law.

When seen through the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve sinned by staying unclothed in God's most holy presence.

Understand the difference between an act & the moral law.

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

No. I did not say that. What comment of mine would lead you that I had inferred or even implied that when they were hiding from Him because they believed were naked after having eaten the forbidden fruit?

I'll give grace for what apparently you are not giving.

If as you now admit staying unclothed in God's most holy presence is NOT a work of darkness, would you allow people to stay unclothed in your church?

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

Delving deep into my words?

I suppose so since they wish to hide themselves from the Lord and darkness would be better in hiding their nakedness from the Lord for not believing in God & His words.

They did sew figs leaves together to hide their nakedness and yet they were still ashamed as if still naked for when the Lord came and they hid themselves from the Lord anyway.

One has to discern why God had asked them who had told them that they were naked.

Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. 8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden. 9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

It seems to me that God had to clothed them with skins for them to stop feeling naked before Him.

You suppose staying unclothed in God's most holy presence is a work of darkness? So why did God create them unclothed?

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

I would say that before they ate the forbidden fruit, they were doubting God and His words, and so having eaten the forbidden fruit is the sin of not believing God and His words for why they felt naked & ashamed in His Presence.

Since God had to clothed them with skins, I am not sure Adam & Eve had that knowledge to do that, but I also wonder if this a prophetic action in how God will clothe us in Christ Jesus so we can be in His Presence & He has for all those that believe in Jesus Christ & His words.

Sin of not believing God and His words? So are you saying staying unclothed in God's most holy presence is not sin?