What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?

[RJ]

Some may disagree, but we all can agree that Jesus is lord and Savior!

The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16.

The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:

1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air 1 Thessalonians 4:17. At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth Revelation 19:14.

2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10.

3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 ; 5:9. The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment Matthews 24: 40-41.

4) The rapture will be secret and instant 1 Corinthians 15:50 - 54. The second coming will be visible to all Revelations 1:7 ; Matthew 24: 29-30.

5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place 2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24: 15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18. The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment Titus 2:13 Thessalonians 4:13-18 ; 1 Corinthians 15: 50-54.

Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct?

1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation 1 Thessalonians 5:9 ; Revelation 3:10.

2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent—there are many things which must occur before He can return Matthew 24: 4-30.

3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6–19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation—also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” Jeremiah 30:7—God will again turn His primary attention to Israel Romans 11: 17-13.

The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire.

 

[Brad Huber]

Would love to read about yours and everyone elses opinion on this. I have seen scripture used to back up all the beliefs, pre, mid, and post. I hope ego's stay out of the discussion. I personally believe, as in personal belief due to faith, that it will be mid, saving us from the worst of it. But we face suffering in the world and the first century christians suffered much more so for thier faith, and the wrath they suffered was from man, not God. But regardless, I would apply the teaching that we are not to argue over minor teachings as scripture states. Loving discussion versus condescending arguing would be great!!

 

[B-A-C]

Some may disagree, but we all can agree that Jesus is lord and Savior!

The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16.

I tend to agree it is two separate events, I also tend to lean towards pre-trib.
If it is pre-trib, and Jesus takes up "all the believers" before the tribulation, it certainly isn't everyone who will be saved. But I personally
believe it is all of those who are saved "at that point in time".
Because we know some people will come out of the tribulation saved. ( Rev 20:4-5; Rev 7:14; ) So it seems they were saved after the rapture. I believe Matt 24:29-31; is talking about those people.
Also it seems the 144,000 Jews will go through the tribulation, but they will be protected from some of the plagues. ( Rev 7:3; Rev 9:4; Rev 14:1; )

Also there will still be evil even after Jesus reigns on the earth for 1,000 years. Satan will be released and raise up a large army after
the millennial reign. ( Rev 20:7-10; )

I also agree the rapture will be "in the twinkling of an eye" or "like lightning flashing" it will be a very quick instantaneous thing.
People will simply disappear quickly. People will be going UP towards Jesus, heaven or wherever they will stay.

The second coming can't really happen "in the twinkling of an eye" if it's a permanent thing. (or at least for 1,000 years)
Also if some of the saints are ruling on the earth with Jesus, they wouldn't be going UP towards Jesus/Heaven.
They would be going DOWN towards Jesus/Earth.

 

[Travis]

New Smiley's! :thumbsup:

I love seeing 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 used to support the pre-tribulation rapture.

13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.​

Mainly because this is one of the most unequivocal scriptures I can find that proves the second coming of Jesus and the resurrection of the dead/rapture happen at the same time.

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.​

Before the rapture happens, we know that a number of things must happen first:

1. The Lord will come down from Heaven
2. A Loud command, the voice of the archangel, will be heard (presumably the whole world hearing this)
   
3. The LAST trumpet will be blown. Not A trumpet, The LAST trumpet. Just saying.
   
4. The dead in Christ must rise.

Then, and only then, will the rapture take place.

If the rapture takes place before 7 years of tribulation, then there must be two different, and separate, resurrections of believers. Because all the dead in Christ that would die in the 7 years (or however many) between Jesus's secret pre-tribulation rapture (which scripture says cannot take place until after the dead in Christ are raised), would themselves have to be resurrected at his second second coming. Which would require two resurrections of the 'dead in Christ,' one at his first second coming, and another at his second second coming. Or, no one will come to faith in Christ after the secret pre-tribulation rapture and die at any point. Which I suppose is possible...if it weren't for Revelation chapter 20 anyway.

I mean... I don't have it all figured out. But it is hard for me to not notice the inconsistencies and discrepancies in many teachings when I see them. Something just doesn't add up for me about all this. And it hasn't added up to the majority of believers who have lived in the last 2000ish years.

I do enjoy having a pleasant conversation about this topic from time to time. Most people I bring it up to though get pretty upset about it.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Some may disagree, but we all can agree that Jesus is lord and Savior!

The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16.

The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:

1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air 1 Thessalonians 4:17. At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth Revelation 19:14.

2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10.

3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 ; 5:9. The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment Matthews 24: 40-41.

4) The rapture will be secret and instant 1 Corinthians 15:50 - 54. The second coming will be visible to all Revelations 1:7 ; Matthew 24: 29-30.

5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place 2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24: 15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18. The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment Titus 2:13 Thessalonians 4:13-18 ; 1 Corinthians 15: 50-54.

Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct?

1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation 1 Thessalonians 5:9 ; Revelation 3:10.

2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent—there are many things which must occur before He can return Matthew 24: 4-30.

3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6–19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation—also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” Jeremiah 30:7—God will again turn His primary attention to Israel Romans 11: 17-13.

The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire.

Grace - the twinkle of an eye is Not the rapture but the time it takes our bodies to change from corruptible to incorruptible. The dead arise changed - you can also see this at Dan 12:1-2.

 

[RJ]

Grace - the twinkle of an eye is Not the rapture but the time it takes our bodies to change from corruptible to incorruptible. The dead arise changed - you can also see this at Dan 12:1-2.

According to scripture, the dead rise first, their spirits are already with the Lord and their bodies, which were left on earth (land and sea) corruptible, will be raised incorruptible to be joined with their spirit into their new resurrected bodies.
It is, at that time, the living in Christ will not die but will be changed, instantly into their resurrected bodies. All will join Christ in the air and are both the rapture or Christ gathering his church.

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

New Smiley's! :thumbsup:

I love seeing 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 used to support the pre-tribulation rapture.

13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.​

Mainly because this is one of the most unequivocal scriptures I can find that proves the second coming of Jesus and the resurrection of the dead/rapture happen at the same time.

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.​

Before the rapture happens, we know that a number of things must happen first:

1. The Lord will come down from Heaven
2. A Loud command, the voice of the archangel, will be heard (presumably the whole world hearing this)
   
3. The LAST trumpet will be blown. Not A trumpet, The LAST trumpet. Just saying.
   
4. The dead in Christ must rise.

Then, and only then, will the rapture take place.

If the rapture takes place before 7 years of tribulation, then there must be two different, and separate, resurrections of believers. Because all the dead in Christ that would die in the 7 years (or however many) between Jesus's secret pre-tribulation rapture (which scripture says cannot take place until after the dead in Christ are raised), would themselves have to be resurrected at his second second coming. Which would require two resurrections of the 'dead in Christ,' one at his first second coming, and another at his second second coming. Or, no one will come to faith in Christ after the secret pre-tribulation rapture and die at any point. Which I suppose is possible...if it weren't for Revelation chapter 20 anyway.

I mean... I don't have it all figured out. But it is hard for me to not notice the inconsistencies and discrepancies in many teachings when I see them. Something just doesn't add up for me about all this. And it hasn't added up to the majority of believers who have lived in the last 2000ish years.

I do enjoy having a pleasant conversation about this topic from time to time. Most people I bring it up to though get pretty upset about it.

Blessings,

Travis

Travis - I simply dont see a pre trib rapture in the verse you give..

We can see a few things about the rapture that points to a tribulation rapture..

Daniel 12:1-2 - if we look at the verses before these we see 11

According to scripture, the dead rise first, their spirits are already with the Lord and their bodies, which were left on earth (land and sea) corruptible, will be raised incorruptible to be joined with their spirit into their new resurrected bodies.
It is, at that time, the living in Christ will not die but will be changed, instantly into their resurrected bodies. All will join Christ in the air and are both the rapture or Christ gathering his church.

Well just as long as the truth is taught and my reply was to your statement that

According to scripture, the dead rise first, their spirits are already with the Lord and their bodies, which were left on earth (land and sea) corruptible, will be raised incorruptible to be joined with their spirit into their new resurrected bodies.
It is, at that time, the living in Christ will not die but will be changed, instantly into their resurrected bodies. All will join Christ in the air and are both the rapture or Christ gathering his church.

Just wanted to make sure people understood the twinkle of an eye Only applys to the changing of the body and nothing else giving way to a secret rapture or that we just vanish.

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Somehow that got all messed up.

 

[Travis]

Travis - I simply dont see a pre trib rapture in the verse you give..

Ya, I don't see a pre trib rapture in that verse either.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I mean... I don't have it all figured out. But it is hard for me to not notice the inconsistencies and discrepancies in many teachings when I see them. Something just doesn't add up for me about all this. And it hasn't added up to the majority of believers who have lived in the last 2000ish years.

I think it does not add up because you are paying attention.
I've gone down all the known rabbit holes and none of them lead anywhere but back to each other.

I don't think its wise to form a timeline by mixing old and new testament scriptures.
Or trying to mix what Jesus said with what later writers said.
Each of those sources may be describing the same thing in a completely different way.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is,
when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

The resurrection seems like a future event but it "now is".

James 1:5 But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him
Every time I do this I seem to get more questions than answers and that leads me to believe I'm not even asking the right questions or my questions are not answerable
because they were based on misunderstanding.
It's like asking me about the marital status of the number 3.
It's not that I don't know if it is married or not but the question shows a lack of understanding of the nature of numbers vs. people.

John 9:3 "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

Their question came from a misunderstanding of the nature of God.
The answer puts us back on the right track.
God is love.

 

[RJ]

Just wanted to make sure people understood the twinkle of an eye Only applys to the changing of the body and nothing else giving way to a secret rapture or that we just vanish.

No, I think scripture is clear on what happens!
At that time, the "twinkling of the eye", according to scripture, applies to then living in Christ (saved) or his church that are alive. But there is no reason not to believe that the raising of the dead in Christ first and the changing of the living in Christ do not happen instantly or, at least, very rapidly!

 

[Eric E Stahl]

At the rapture the church is going up to Jesus and at the second coming the church is coming down with Jesus.

 

[RJ]

At the rapture the church is going up to Jesus and at the second coming the church is coming down with Jesus.

Great Answer!!!!

 

[norapture]

St John 6:40 And this is the will
of him that sent me, that EVERY ONE which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the LAST Day
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Farther which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY

 

[RJ]

• Last Judgment
• Final Judgment
• Day of Judgment
• Judgment Day
• The Day of the Lord
• The Last Day

No human knows for sure Exactly how this will occur. But this no one should argue, you better be ready now for your imminent physical death, because more likely than not, your physical death is coming first, and you better be ready. On that final day, you will either have Christ in you are you won't, and that is the deciding factor of what happens next.
I have Christ in me now and I am ready for anything.....How about you?

 

[lawrenceb]

The rapture doctrine requires students of the scriptures to approach each relevant verse with certain preconceived notions about prophecy. If you simply read the various prophetic verses about the return of Christ, the Bible clearly teaches that believers will be "gathered" at the second coming -- not some secret, invisible return that precedes his BIG second coming at the end of the tribulation. The problem isn't in our understanding of the rapture, because the rapture as routinely taught today doesn't even exist; the difficulty is in our understanding of the resurrection.

In John chapter five, Jesus tells us how God the Father has committed the power of resurrection to him. Jesus says "He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 6:24, 28, 29 KJV) According to these passages, apparently there are two resurrections: one for those "that have done good," and a resurrection for those "that have done evil."

In one of the parallel accounts, a verse in Luke has Christ himself saying that the believer shall "be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." (Luke 14:14 KJV) Another proof text of this dual aspect of the resurrection is found in the book of Acts when the Apostle Paul was brought before the Roman governor Felix and charged with heresy by the Jews.

Paul stated that he believes, as the Jews did, "that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust." (Acts 24:15 KJV) A further example of this understanding of two resurrections is found in the Old Testament, when the prophet Daniel was instructed by the archangel Michael concerning the tribulation and the resurrection. In that instance, Michael said that in the time of the end, "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2 KJV)

Back in the New Testament book of Revelation, we find a reference to "the first resurrection." (Rev 20:5 KJV) This first resurrection clearly relates to believers in Jesus, for the text states that they "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Rev 20:4 KJV)

In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." (Rev 20:5 KJV) Later in the chapter John says, "when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged..." (Rev 20:7, 12 KJV) These verses plainly state that there are 2 resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.

The Revelation passages further clarify that these two resurrections are separated by one thousand years; this being the period we commonly call the millennium during which the resurrected believers shall "reign with him a thousand years." (Rev 20:6 KJV)

The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:

1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air 1 Thessalonians 4:17. At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth Revelation 19:14.

Believers don’t do the hackneyed “go to heaven” thing; rather, Christ sets up his kingdom here, with us. We, being "caught up" with others, meet the Lord in the air and then return back to earth with him.

For example, if your friends fly in from another country to visit you, you might travel to your local airport to meet them when their plane lands and then escort them back to your place. If they’re VIP friends, you might have a delegation meet them at your country's main airport, and then escort them back to your place. In either case, you don’t go to your airport, meet your friends, get on your friend’s plane, and then travel back with your friends to their place of origin!

So, do we have a scriptural witness to this scenario? Yes.

...we came the next day to Puteoli: Where we found brethren, and were desired to tarry with them seven days: and so we went toward Rome. And from thence, when the brethren heard of us, they came to meet us as far as Appii forum, and The three taverns: whom when Paul saw, he thanked God, and took courage. And when we came to Rome... -- Acts 28:13-16

The brothers in Rome got word of their impending visitors, and so went out to meet them at Appii forum, and then escorted them back to Rome.

meet = same word in both Acts 28 and 1 Thes. 4.

Here are all four usages of the word meet:

Mat. 25:1 - Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Mat. 25:6 - And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Acts 28:15 - And from thence, when the brethren heard of us, they came to meet us as far as Appii forum, and The three taverns: whom when Paul saw, he thanked God, and took courage.

1 Thes. 4:17 - Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

All four are consistent with “meet and greet and return to base.“

 

[RJ]

(John 6:24, 28, 29 KJV) According to these passages, apparently there are two resurrections: one for those "that have done good," and a resurrection for those "that have done evil."

Hmmm! Maybe it is just me, but I don't see where theses verses in John 24 have anything to do with resurrection? Maybe you can explain your use a bit more because it is not as apparent to me as it is to you.

• John 6:24 Once the crowd realized that neither Jesus nor his disciples were there, they got into the boats and went to Capernaum in search of Jesus.
• John 6: 28 Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
• John 6: 29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

 

[norapture]

RJ those verse are in St John 5:24, 28,29 that Lawrenceb was talking about .

 

[lawrenceb]

Yep, chap. 5, not chap. 6. Thanks.

 

[norapture]

Matthew 13:24-30
24-- Another parable put he forth unto them, saying , The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field
25-- But while men slept , his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26-- But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27-- So the servants of the house-
holder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28-- He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29-- But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30-- Let both grow together UNTIL
THE HARVEST: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares,and bund them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Not sure Jesus would be pleased,
with many servants, trying to gather the wheat , before the
harvest, with a pre-trip rapture
He did say let them grow together till the harvest.