What to expect in hell

[complete]

Gen 2:15-17 is a favorite among critics because Adam didn't drop dead within 24
hours of tasting the forbidden fruit. In point of fact, he continued to live outside the
garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his son Seth. (Gen 5:4)

Some say Adam died a "spiritual" death, and that's true, but not entirely true, viz:
the explanation isn't misinformation, rather, it's missing information.

Human life was created in the image and likeness of God. In other words: human
life came out of the box with immortality, i.e. with perpetual youth. Adam lost
immortality when he tasted the forbidden fruit, i.e. his body lost its perpetual youth
and began to age.

Adam's body became infected with mortality, which is a lingering death rather than
sudden death, i.e. mortality is slow, but very relentless: like Arnold Swarzenegger's
movie character "The Terminator" mortality feels neither pain nor pity, nor remorse
nor fear; it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be bargained with, and it absolutely
will not stop-- ever! --until our useless corpse is ready for burial.

• Eccl 7:2 . . It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house of
mirth, for death is the destiny of every man: the living should take this seriously.
(cf. Luke 12:16-21)

NOTE: Superhuman bodies like Arnold Swarzenegger's look indestructible when
young, but their youth isn't permanent. Today Arnold is pushing 76 and taking on
the appearance of withering vegetables.
_

'So also is the resurrection of the dead.
.. It is sown in corruption;
.... it is raised in incorruption:
...... It is sown in dishonour;
........ it is raised in glory:
.......... it is sown in weakness;
............ it is raised in power:
.............. It is sown a natural body;
................ it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.'
(1Cor. 15:42)

'And so it is written,
The first man Adam was made a living soul;
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual,
but that which is natural;
and afterward that which is spiritual.'
(1Cor, 15:45-46)

'For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
Death is swallowed up in victory.'
(1Cor. 15:53-34)

Hello @Beetow,

With respect, Adam was not spiritual so he could not have died spiritually. He was a natural man (v.46) a living soul, but he had access to the tree of life.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

Matt. 10:28 is referring to the resurrection. All bodies will perish, but “they cannot kill your soul” is the future resurrection, losing both body and soul means no resurrection. You can see that in the saints who are martyred for refusing to bow down to Satan, especially in Rev. 6:9, the fifth seal, right after the four horsemen.

Actually, I just have to confess and boast that in my eastern philosophy, body and mind are ONE, there’s no influence of Greek Gnosticism where there’s this dichotomy of body and mind. This is closer to the biblical definition of soul, and it’s more scientific, considering the gut-brain axis. What’s new from the Bible is the Holy Spirit, who gives us a new birth that goes beyond the soul and lasts forever.

'For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
Death is swallowed up in victory.'
(1Cor. 15:53-34)

Hello @Jonathan_Gale,

This 'mortal' must put on 'immortality' at the resurrection. The soul is the whole person, and it is not immortal, for as it says in Ezekiel, 'The soul that sinneth it shall die', so it is subject to death.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

This 'mortal' must put on 'immortality' at the resurrection. The soul is the whole person, and it is not immortal, for as it says in Ezekiel, 'The soul that sinneth it shall die', so it is subject to death.

The resurrected life is in a new physical body, which means, a new soul, and death is just a "sleep". And again, "the soul that sins it shall die" simply means no resurrection.

 

[complete]

The resurrected life is in a new physical body, which means, a new soul, and death is just a "sleep". And again, "the soul that sins it shall die" simply means no resurrection.

Hello @Jonathan_Gale.

Yes mortal must put on immortality, corruption must put on in-corruption and natural must put on spiritual. In resurrection the believer will be once more a living soul: but with respect, the death of the unbeliever is never called, 'sleep', in Scripture: only the believer, who has the promise of life in Christ Jesus, is spoken of as being 'asleep in Christ'. ' The soul that sinneth it shall die', for being mortal it will see corruption.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[B-A-C]

again, "the soul that sins it shall die" simply means no resurrection.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Hello @Jonathan_Gale.

Yes mortal must put on immortality, corruption must put on in-corruption and natural must put on spiritual. In resurrection the believer will be once more a living soul: but with respect, the death of the unbeliever is never called, 'sleep', in Scripture: only the believer, who has the promise of life in Christ Jesus, is spoken of as being 'asleep in Christ'. ' The soul that sinneth it shall die', for being mortal it will see corruption.

What are we arguing about? In the eyes of God we all have sinned, there’s none righteous, but believers’ sins are atoned for by Jesus, unbelievers’ sins are not, therefore, “those who don’t believe are condemned already”. Their death is just death, when did I apply “sleep” to them?

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Gen. 3:19 “For dust you are, and to dust you shall return.”

The verses you quote are talking about the judgement for the evil spirits dwelling in the wicked. True resurrection is putting on a new body of INCORRUPTION, as @complete pointed out. The wicked do not have their names written in the Book of Life, their bodies are already returned to dust, it is their spirits that will suffer for eternity.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

'Jesus answered them,
"Is it not written in your law, 'I said, Ye are gods?'
If He called them gods, unto whom the word of God came,
and the scripture cannot be broken;
Say ye of Him, whom the Father hath sanctified,
and sent into the world, 'Thou blasphemest';
because I said, 'I am the Son of God?' ... "

I read this passage again and come to some new realization. In the context of this passage you quoted, Jesus was being accused of blasphemy for calling himself the Son of God, then Jesus quoted Ps. 82:6 to rebuke them. What Jesus was saying is, these "sons of God" is a legit title that exists in the law, these "sons of God" were authorized to do God's work, which is mentioned in Ps. 82:3-4, "defend the poor and do justice", that's the same duty Paul elaborated in Rom. 13, and the Pharisees never had a problem with that, even though these sons of God were corrupt and under judgement; now Jesus as the one and only legitimate son of God was sent to the world to really do God's work, which they all had witnessed, why all of a sudden were they triggered and yelling "blasphamy"?

 

[complete]

I read this passage again and come to some new realization. In the context of this passage you quoted, Jesus was being accused of blasphemy for calling himself the Son of God, then Jesus quoted Ps. 82:6 to rebuke them. What Jesus was saying is, these "sons of God" is a legit title that exists in the law, these "sons of God" were authorized to do God's work, which is mentioned in Ps. 82:3-4, "defend the poor and do justice", that's the same duty Paul elaborated in Rom. 13, and the Pharisees never had a problem with that, even though these sons of God were corrupt and under judgement; now Jesus as the one and only legitimate son of God was sent to the world to really do God's work, which they all had witnessed, why all of a sudden were they triggered and yelling "blasphemy"?

'And I saw, and bare record
that this is the Son of God.'
(Joh 1:34)

' Likewise also the chief priests mocking Him,
with the scribes and elders, said,
He saved others; Himself He cannot save.
If He be the King of Israel,
let Him now come down from the cross,
and we will believe Him.
He trusted in God; let Him deliver Him now,
if He will have Him:
for He said, I am the Son of God.'
(Mat 27:41-43)

Hello @Jonathan_Gale,

You gave me the impression that you believed those called, 'sons of God', to be spiritual beings: and not the men who sat on the council, who were so called because they were acting as God's representatives as judges among the People. Moses was called a 'son of God' for example as one who represented God among the People. Angels, and Adam (Luke 3:8) also being called so because they were God's creations. There is only one begotten Son of God, as we know Jonathan.

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You gave me the impression that you believed those called, 'sons of God', to be spiritual beings: and not the men who sat on the council, who were so called because they were acting as God's representatives as judges among the People. Moses was called a 'son of God' for example as one who represented God among the People. Angels, and Adam (Luke 3:8) also being called so because they were God's creations. There is only one begotten Son of God, as we know Jonathan.

Moses was called a "son of God" because he acted as a member of God's divine council, he regularly talked with God and received God's instructions, he was God's embassadar on earth, and so was Adam - to "subdue the earth", and then, of course, Jesus. Jesus was alluding to this capacity when he was confronting the Pharisees. And then, God empowered his church with the Holy Spirit, we're all sons and daughters of God. Not just disciples, followers, devotees, but children of God, co-heir with Christ, this is not just rhetorics. However, that doesn't mean those "sons of God" in Ps. 82, Gen. 6:3, Job 1:6, etc. are all mere humans as well, those are definitely spiritual beings in heaven, those are the original.

 

[Beetow]

• 1Cor 4:4 . . My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent.

During former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's assassination back in 2011, he
was overheard to complain: Why are you doing this? I've done nothing wrong.

Former US President Richard Nixion once stated-- in so many words --that when a
President breaks the law, it's not a crime.

Those two men serve to demonstrate just how unreliable the human conscience can
be at times.

Man was created with as near a perfect conscience as a creature can be given.

• Gen 1:27 . . God created Man in His own image, in the image of God created He
him.

But then came the forbidden fruit incident by which Man's near-divine conscience
underwent something that caused it to become humanistic.

• Gen 3:22 . . The Lord God said: The man has now become like one of us, knowing
good and evil.

Man was able to discern between good and evil before his fall, but that was by
means of a conscience influenced by its maker. The forbidden fruit incident altered
Man's conscience to become his own influence, i.e. Man became defensive, and he
rationalizes a lot too. (Rom 2:14-15)

I think the writer of 1Cor 4:4 was well aware of just how tricky Man's conscience
can be so he was reluctant to insist upon his innocence-- a little sophistry here and
a little there, and even monsters like Communist China's Xi Jinping and North
Korea's Kim Jong-Un can be persuaded in their own minds to believe themselves
okay guys.

• Jer 17:9-10 . .The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick;
who can understand it? . . . I, The Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, even to
give to each man according to his ways, according to the results of his deeds.

The upside is: Christ's crucifixion not only serves to save people from their sins, but
according to Heb 9:8-14 his death saves them from their conscience too.
_

 

[Beetow]

One of my favorite lines from the movie "Titanic" is when Mr. Ismay protests that
the ship can't sink; and Mr. Andrews responds: She's made of iron, sir! I assure
you, she can... and she will. It is a mathematical certainty.

There are folks at large all across the internet, and around the globe, sincerely
believing that Hell isn't a place of perpetual conscious suffering. They, like Mr.
Ismay, will be utterly stunned and bewildered to the limits of human endurance
to discover it's exactly that.
_

 

[Beetow]

Folks react to misfortune in a sort of four-step process. The first is usually disbelief,
followed by anger, then despair, and finally adjustment.

In the movie "Shawshank Redemption" a man is given two life sentences for
murders he didn't commit. At first he feels very strongly that the truth will come
out that he's innocent and doesn't belong in prison: he expects to eventually be
exonerated and set free.

Well, one of the old-timers cautioned him about that with the advice: "Hope is a
dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. It's no use on the inside. You'd
better get used to that idea."

I'd imagine that most new arrivals in Hell go thru the four-step process; at first
hoping against hope that it isn't permanent. It probably takes quite a while for them
to get used to the idea that it is what it is, i.e. they're never getting out.

Were Hell a normal penal colony like San Quentin or Riker's Island; then I think
most folks would eventually settle down and accept it as a way of life. But the
element of fire makes adjustment very difficult. If only there was at least some
water to help folks beat the heat, that would be very helpful. And maybe recreation
and/or something to occupy their minds like reading, writing, art, and construction
projects. I really don't know how people keep from running mad with insanity from
mental atrophy down there.
_

 

[Beetow]

In Jesus' case, mortality/immortality pertained only to his body rather than to both
his body and himself. Were that not so, then Jesus would've ceased to exist when
he expired on the cross, and in order to restore his corpse to life; it would've been
necessary to first return the man himself to existence.

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that human life is entirely physical which, for them,
isn't exactly true. They hold to something called "life force" which enables the core
of one's being to exist. The life force is versatile. It can be taken from a spirit body,
transferred to a human body, and then transferred back again to the spirit body
from whence it came.

The JW life force suggests an interesting possibility. Supposing when folks are
terminated in the lake of fire per Rev 20:11-15, their life force survives to be
transferred to a spirit body; enabling them to be perfectly suited to join the Devil
and his angels per Matt 25:41, thus keeping the lost in existence for as long as God
deems necessary to accomplish retribution for their works per Rev 20:12.

 

[Beetow]

• 1 Tim 6:7 . .We brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry
nothing out.

Christians walk a strange path. On the one hand they have to be ready to leave this
life on a moment's notice, while on the other hand ready for a long stay, i.e. live
like there's no tomorrow, and yet live like there are years to come.

Those two dissimilar expectations balance each other so that we don't live to
extremes in either direction: always keeping in mind that as we came into this
world empty-handed we will leave it empty-handed. So everyone should be
prepared to suffer the loss of every cherished personal item in their possession that
they hold dear; along with every project and every endeavor.
_

 

[Beetow]

FAQ: Do people in Hell have immortality?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: Do people in Hell have eternal life?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: If so that people in Hell have neither immortality nor eternal life, then how
can it be possible their conscious suffering is perpetual?

REPLY: People in Hell lose their bodies when the pass on, so that rules out
immortality. And they keep human nature when they pass, so that rules out eternal
life.

However, we know from Isaiah 14:4-20 and Luke 16:19-31 that folks on the other
side are conscious, sentient, and recognizable; plus, they exhibit human
characteristics, e.g. Abraham has a bosom, Lazarus has a finger, and the rich man
has a tongue. From all appearances, people over there appear fully human. Exactly
how that is, I don't really know.
_

 

[B-A-C]

FAQ: Do people in Hell have immortality?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: Do people in Hell have eternal life?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: If so that people in Hell have neither immortality nor eternal life, then how
can it be possible their conscious suffering is perpetual?

REPLY: People in Hell lose their bodies when the pass on, so that rules out
immortality. And they keep human nature when they pass, so that rules out eternal
life.

Do they have eternal life? Well, yes and no. How is that for a contradiction?

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Those who worship the beast and take the mark at least, are tormented forever. They have "no rest" day or night.

Everyone gets resurrected again - good or bad. ( John 5:28-29; ) Some face eternal life. Some face eternal.. "death". ( Acts 24:15; ) How can death be eternal?

Rev 2:11; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

So the wicked/evil/unbelievers die twice. But even then they can still feel pain.

Mat t25:44; "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Matt 25:45; "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

In verse 46, the word "eternal" is used twice. Eternal punishment and eternal life. It's the same word in the Greek both places.
If there is no eternal punishment, then there is no eternal life. Notice it doesn't say anything abut these people taking the mark or worshiping the beast.
They were just selfish.

In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Lazarus was dead, but he was in agony and torment.

Luke 16:24; "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'

Some say the story of Lazarus is a parable. I disagree, but even if it is... what is a parable? A story that relates a truth ( or multiple truths ) of reality. The reality here is.... people will be tormented in hell.

Finally we have Satan and the beast...
Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

These also will be tormented.. day and night.. forever.

So then, How are they still able to feel torment if they've already faced the second death (which is being thrown into the Lake of Fire). Well they are alive in a sense... if you want to call that "living".

 

[B-A-C]

The Bible says Angels are unable to die.

Luke 20:35; but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
Luke 20:36; for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Of course the Bible says there are fallen angels in a few places, including Satan himself. They cannot die, but they will face eternal punishment.

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

 

[Beetow]

"Look again at that dot. That’s here. That’s home. That’s us."

"On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every
human being who ever was, lived out their lives."

"The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions,
ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and
coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every
young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer,
every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme
leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-- on a mote
of dust suspended in a sunbeam." (Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot-- on imaging from Voyager 1)

The Earth is a literal death star, flying thru space, looping around and around the
Sun many times over and again: a floating grave yard whose soils and seas are
filled with the dead from many centuries stretching back to Abel: the first of its
passengers to return to the dust from whence they came.

• Eccl 7:2 . . It is better to spend your time at funerals than at festivals. For you
are going to die, and you should think about it while there is still time.
_

 

[Beetow]

• Gen 28:15 . . Remember, I am with you: I will protect you wherever you go and
will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have
promised you.

Hardly any of those promises were fulfilled in Jacob's lifetime. So how could God
say: "I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you"

Well; I think it best to take it that God remained Jacob's provider even in the grave,
i.e. when God's people pass away, they don't become dead to Him; whereas when
the wicked die, they no longer make any difference; for example:

"As to whether the dead will be raised-- Moses proved this when he wrote about the
burning bush. Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, Moses wrote of The
Lord as the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. So he is the
God of the living, not the dead. They are all alive to him." (Luke 20:37-38)

God has always been with Jacob, and never left him even once-- all these many
years; better than three-thousand of them by now. And all this whole time Jacob
has lived under God's protection because God promised He would protect Jacob
wherever he went; and in order for that promise to be meaningful, it has to include
the afterlife. (cf. Ps 139:7-10, Matt 16:18)
_