Why I know that God exists

[Ariel K]

See, I don't believe in any higher power. But what I am trying to tell you is that you have no right to try and control other people's lifestyles. This is something that you people don't seem to understand. You cannot assign rules based on a singular religion that is not believed by everyone to an entire country because there are people who do not agree with such rules. You have no right to inhibit the happiness of others who are doing no harm to anyone. My country's constitution allows people to believe whatever they want to believe and I have interacted with a myriad of people from many different belief systems that all claim absolute truth. They can't all be true and cannot apply to everyone. My goal here is to try and get you to understand that your prayers will do no good for anyone and that you apply your beliefs to every single person on this planet based simply on the fact that your particular book claims that it is the word of a make believe higher power just as many others have claimed. If you want answers to your questions about how the planet came to be in its current state i implore you to study chemistry, physics, climatology, and geology. Science does not have all of the answers at the moment, but given time it will. Your holy book gives the easy out and incorrect answer that everything was snapped into existence by a man on a cloud. It makes no mention of the physics and processes that make this world the way it is. Religion was created as a way to explain things that were unable to be explained at the time and to control other people. Christianity worships the weakness of humanity and holds people back. Stop trying to force your beliefs upon others under the guise of caring for them. The world will be a better place once people realize that. Call me hypocritical all you want, but my intentions are to promote critical thinking and scientific reasoning, as well as to drive home the idea that the only rules that can be put into place when it comes to large groups of people with different belief systems and identities are secular rules that do not violate anyone's belief system that is not harmful or objectively bad.

So you belive the sientific impossibility that nothing created something out of nothing?
I would appreciate it if you can let me explain why i know God exists.
So we know for a fact that the universe had a beginning.
There's an acronynm called SURGE
S second law of thermodynamics.
If the universe was infinite there would be no stars because they would have died down by now. It states that energy runs down. So something or "someone"(God) must have wound it up.
U universe expanding.
Edwin Hubble discovered this in 1929 whenhe saw all the galaxies. Moving away from us. Well if you reverse that and go all the way back the the beginning. You come back to a point where time space and matter go to zero.
R remnant heat
In 1965 2 scientist discovered this by accident.(the radiation after glow)
G great Galaxy seeds
verry fine temperature variation in the radiation afterglow basically allowed galaxy's to form.
E Einstein's theory of general relativity
In 1915 he knew that space time and matter were co relative that they came into existence together.that at some point space time and matter had a begining. It wasn't just Einstein that knew this many other scientists have said this.
The following 3 are all non christian Nobel Prize winners
Arno Penzias-"the best data we have(concerning the big bang) are especially what I would have predicted had I had nothing to go on but the 5 books of moses, the psalms, and the bible as a whole."
Robert Wilson- " Certainly there was something that set it all off...I can't think of a better theory of the origin of the universe to match genesis"
(astro physicist from Berkley)George Smoot- " there is no doubt that a parallel exist between the big bang as an event and the Christian notion of creation from nothing"
If the universe had a beginning it must have a beginner.
-Extreme precision at the beginning-
Steven Hawking- "If the expansion rate of the universe was different by one point in a thousand million million a second after the big bang the universe would have collapsed back on itself or never developed galaxies."
For example get a tape mesaure and stretch it across the entire known universe 46.5 billion light years. Set the gravitational force on a particular inch mark on the tape measure.i know gravity isn't measured in inches, but this is to give a scale idea. If you we're to move the strength of gravity one inch in either direction we wouldent be here.
So theres 3 possible explanations for our existence
1. Physical necessity-It had to be there. It could have been anywhere else on the "tape measure" it could have been a billion miles away
2.Chance- some say it happened by chance. Chance is not a cause. There's no force out there called chance. When we use the word chance we're saying we just don't know. Chance is a word we use to describe mathematical possibilities.
3. Design-Sombody or some external force put it there. That seems to be the best explanation.
Objective Moral Values-
Something we were born with. If there was no God then it would be Okay for Hitler to kill those Jew. Because that would just be his opinion vs others. If there is no standard beyond humanity then it's just your opinion vs Hitler's. If there is no God love is no better than rape not in an objective way, we of course might not like itbut it couldent be objectivly wrong unless theres a standard of objective rightness. If there is no God there are no human rights. Everything is a matyer of opinion. Theres no way to justify it.
(S. Lewis "{as an atheist} my argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe when I called it unjust?"
Evidence for the resurrection
11 out of the 12 disciples died excruciating deaths for telling people of the resurrection. They could have not said anythi g to save themselves
What motive did these jews have to make up a new religion? Why would they do this? What did they get? Hey got excomunicated from the synagogue then they got beaten tortured and killed. Last time I checked that was not a list of perks.
-there are 10 ancient non-christian sources within a 150 years of Jesus's life. When you take what theyve written down( they have written verry berifley about Jesus and the apostles) but when you combine everything they say. You get a story congruent with the new testament.
This is only the tip of the ice berg when it comes to why I believe in God. Thanks for reading

 

[Hekuran]

Very clear and persuasive. Good job! These are ideas I've thought through before, but haven't ever articulated as well as this. Thanks.

 

[Vincent]

Something we were born with. If there was no God then it would be Okay for Hitler to kill those Jew. Because that would just be his opinion vs others. If there is no standard beyond humanity then it's just your opinion vs Hitler's. If there is no God love is no better than rape not in an objective way, we of course might not like itbut it couldent be objectivly wrong unless theres a standard of objective rightness. If there is no God there are no human rights. Everything is a matyer of opinion. Theres no way to justify it.

This may be the case. How is this evidence for the existence of god? It seems you don't like the implication that there is no god so you assume a god must exist. This is not reasonable. All morality is subjective at some point. Either we decide what is moral or not or god decides what is moral or not. Both are subjective. Atheists can have objective morals if we decide what the goals of our morals should be, then we can look at our actions and compare them to our standard to see if they advance the goal in that situation. Not unlike Christians who believe that the bible is the moral standard and they compare their actions to that standard. The difference is that as atheists we can modify and change the goal to make our moral system better for everyone, Christians cannot.

 

[Curtis]

This may be the case. How is this evidence for the existence of god? It seems you don't like the implication that there is no god so you assume a god must exist. This is not reasonable. All morality is subjective at some point. Either we decide what is moral or not or god decides what is moral or not. Both are subjective. Atheists can have objective morals if we decide what the goals of our morals should be, then we can look at our actions and compare them to our standard to see if they advance the goal in that situation. Not unlike Christians who believe that the bible is the moral standard and they compare their actions to that standard. The difference is that as atheists we can modify and change the goal to make our moral system better for everyone, Christians cannot.

It is totally unwise, and even stupid to believe in something without having any evidence as to why you believe it! Faith, that comes from God gives us the evidence of things not seen. Just because God is invisible, does NOT mean you can not see him! What the human eyes can not see, faith can!

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Vincent]

It is totally unwise, and even stupid to believe in something without having any evidence as to why you believe it! Faith, that comes from God gives us the evidence of things not seen. Just because God is invisible, does NOT mean you can not see him! What the human eyes can not see, faith can!

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

You either have evidence or you don't. Hoping for something is not evidence. What evidence do you have for things unseen?

 

[Curtis]

You either have evidence or you don't. Hoping for something is not evidence. What evidence do you have for things unseen?

God made the world so that his Kingdom, which is invisible to the human eyes, is not invisible to those who what to see his Kingdom by faith after he enlightens their eyes by his Spirit. It is only invisible to those who chose not to believe. That is why "darkness" causes "blindness" whereas "light" gives "vision"

 

[Vincent]

God made the world so that his Kingdom, which is invisible to the human eyes, is not invisible to those who what to see his Kingdom by faith after he enlightens their eyes by his Spirit. It is only invisible to those who chose not to believe. That is why "darkness" causes "blindness" whereas "light" gives "vision"

Can you choose to believe the moon is made of cheese? No one can choose to believe anything, we are convinced or not by good or bad reasons.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Can you choose to believe the moon is made of cheese? No one can choose to believe anything, we are convinced or not by good or bad reasons.

Hi @Vincent

I am wondering why you are here at Talk Jesus

This is a Christian Forum made up of believers.

If you are just her to argue against our beliefs then that is immature and not a reason to join.

Why not read through some of the threads and see why we believe.
And even pray (to the Lord who you no longer believe exists) that you will be shown the truth.

 

[Vincent]

Hi @Vincent

I am wondering why you are here at Talk Jesus

This is a Christian Forum made up of believers.

If you are just her to argue against our beliefs then that is immature and not a reason to join.

Why not read through some of the threads and see why we believe.
And even pray (to the Lord who you no longer believe exists) that you will be shown the truth.

Actually I was here a couple of years ago as a christian and just got an email wanting me to come back.

They can boot me off if they want. It is not immature to want good reasons for our beliefs and encourage others to have the same. I believed for 15 years or so and I have a good idea why Christians believe, I have just come to realize that my reasons for belief were bad. Christianity affects so much of our lives in America so that is why it is good to reason with believers o what is true and what we don't have good reasons for.

Do you care about what is true? Why do you believe?

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Actually I was here a couple of years ago as a christian and just got an email wanting me to come back.

They can boot me off if they want. It is not immature to want good reasons for our beliefs and encourage others to have the same. I believed for 15 years or so and I have a good idea why Christians believe, I have just come to realize that my reasons for belief were bad. Christianity affects so much of our lives in America so that is why it is good to reason with believers o what is true and what we don't have good reasons for.

Do you care about what is true? Why do you believe?

Hi again @Vincent

I am not planning to boot you off.

However, arguing back against Christian beliefs is futile here.
And continual atheist type arguments will not be tolerated.

I am sad that you have turned away from the Lord.
And yet convinced you are back here for a reason.

I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day.
2 Timothy 1:12

 

[Jellani]

Christianity affects so much of our lives in America

There are really a lot of reasons that can stumble a persons faith if we choose to focus our eyes to our co- believers or co- christians but Christianity is not about us, it is about HIM, GOD.

What evidence do you have for things unseen?

The mere fact that we have the AIR to breath, that is unseen ( there are so much more evidence). It is not something made by man.

There are so much more evidence that GOD exist, if we only open our hearts.

And there are so much more to be thankful that the GOD whom we believe that dont exist still give us this GRACE to live.
“You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭29:13‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. | New International Version (NIV) | Download The Bible App Now

You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

www.bible.com

 

[Quantrill]

This may be the case. How is this evidence for the existence of god? It seems you don't like the implication that there is no god so you assume a god must exist. This is not reasonable. All morality is subjective at some point. Either we decide what is moral or not or god decides what is moral or not. Both are subjective. Atheists can have objective morals if we decide what the goals of our morals should be, then we can look at our actions and compare them to our standard to see if they advance the goal in that situation. Not unlike Christians who believe that the bible is the moral standard and they compare their actions to that standard. The difference is that as atheists we can modify and change the goal to make our moral system better for everyone, Christians cannot.

We who are Christian do not assume there is God. We know there is God. We do not assume that Jesus Christ is The Son of God. We know that Jesus is The Son of God.

Morality is a man made measure. The Bible is not a moral standard. The Bible is the Word of God written to man for all his needs in the area of redemption, and walk of salvation afterward.

Atheists can be moral. Means nothing to their salvation with God.

Quantrill

 

[amadeus2]

This may be the case. How is this evidence for the existence of god? It seems you don't like the implication that there is no god so you assume a god must exist. This is not reasonable. All morality is subjective at some point. Either we decide what is moral or not or god decides what is moral or not. Both are subjective. Atheists can have objective morals if we decide what the goals of our morals should be, then we can look at our actions and compare them to our standard to see if they advance the goal in that situation. Not unlike Christians who believe that the bible is the moral standard and they compare their actions to that standard. The difference is that as atheists we can modify and change the goal to make our moral system better for everyone, Christians cannot.

A good moral system, whether it is put into place by atheists or Christian or some combination of those don't necessarily improve the society where it is established.

Yes, as say atheists can change the goals to make our moral system better, but they also can change them to make it worse. Men as a whole have always had a beastly nature. Some are worse or better than others. Applying standards in the way of laws enacted and enforcement applied or rehabilitation administered has not really changed that basic man even when behavior has seemingly improved. The inner man needs to be changed and men have not learned by themselves how to do that.

A non-Christian man will still often do whatever he wants if... if he believes he can get away with it unpunished. As you may know from your personal Christian experience it is not supposed to be like that with those who choose to follow God. Real growth toward God does change the man as no man made system has ever been able to do. That so many Christians fail, is not a failing in God, but rather in the persons, who really when it came down to it, were unwilling to surrender to God's Way. God will help, but some who have confessed a belief in God have not really wanted to change enough to really seek His help.

Many people use the way the majorities in our western societies in particular who are designated as Christians in our societies as the gauge, but that is where we derive erroneous results. To too many, the word, Christian, is simply a label to obtain the best things from a supposedly Christian society. Special legal provisions, exemptions and tax breaks [501c3 under the USA's IRSC (Internal Revenue Service Code) for example] still give people who don't even pretend to love God in their life styles extra money in their pockets. They often don't mind lying a little, or a lot, to take advantage of them. But the real gauge to be used in the heart [I know you don't like that usage, but you understand it.] of the individual and his connection to and/or faithfulness toward God. Many of these real believers get lost in the crowds that mouth the words and carry the label: Christian.

The occasional well intentioned atheist will not change men. Neither will the badly intentional nominal Christian. The real Christian is the one that can make a difference in the kingdom of God... and in a certain measure even among men.

You my friend, @Vince have presumed because of your own failure to really find God, that everyone else called Christian just has not discovered what you think you have discovered. You have been duped my friend as I see it without even knowing all of your details.

 

[Vincent]

I have not nee

Hi again @Vincent

I am not planning to boot you off.

However, arguing back against Christian beliefs is futile here.
And continual atheist type arguments will not be tolerated.

I am sad that you have turned away from the Lord.
And yet convinced you are back here for a reason.

I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day.
2 Timothy 1:12

I have not been disrespectful here as far as I know. But I have been told what I think and called a liar here.

 

[Vincent]

We who are Christian do not assume there is God. We know there is God. We do not assume that Jesus Christ is The Son of God. We know that Jesus is The Son of God.

Morality is a man made measure. The Bible is not a moral standard. The Bible is the Word of God written to man for all his needs in the area of redemption, and walk of salvation afterward.

Atheists can be moral. Means nothing to their salvation with God.

Quantrill

Ok, but other Christians think different. Who is right?

 

[Vincent]

A good moral system, whether it is put into place by atheists or Christian or some combination of those don't necessarily improve the society where it is established.

Yes, as say atheists can change the goals to make our moral system better, but they also can change them to make it worse. Men as a whole have always had a beastly nature. Some are worse or better than others. Applying standards in the way of laws enacted and enforcement applied or rehabilitation administered has not really changed that basic man even when behavior has seemingly improved. The inner man needs to be changed and men have not learned by themselves how to do that.

A non-Christian man will still often do whatever he wants if... if he believes he can get away with it unpunished. As you may know from your personal Christian experience it is not supposed to be like that with those who choose to follow God. Real growth toward God does change the man as no man made system has ever been able to do. That so many Christians fail, is not a failing in God, but rather in the persons, who really when it came down to it, were unwilling to surrender to God's Way. God will help, but some who have confessed a belief in God have not really wanted to change enough to really seek His help.

Many people use the way the majorities in our western societies in particular who are designated as Christians in our societies as the gauge, but that is where we derive erroneous results. To too many, the word, Christian, is simply a label to obtain the best things from a supposedly Christian society. Special legal provisions, exemptions and tax breaks [501c3 under the USA's IRSC (Internal Revenue Service Code) for example] still give people who don't even pretend to love God in their life styles extra money in their pockets. They often don't mind lying a little, or a lot, to take advantage of them. But the real gauge to be used in the heart [I know you don't like that usage, but you understand it.] of the individual and his connection to and/or faithfulness toward God. Many of these real believers get lost in the crowds that mouth the words and carry the label: Christian.

The occasional well intentioned atheist will not change men. Neither will the badly intentional nominal Christian. The real Christian is the one that can make a difference in the kingdom of God... and in a certain measure even among men.

Whether a secular morality is good or bad says nothing about if a god exists.

You my friend, @Vince have presumed because of your own failure to really find God, that everyone else called Christian just has not discovered what you think you have discovered. You have been duped my friend as I see it without even knowing all of your details.

I have not discovered anything. I am just unconvinced that a god exists.

 

[amadeus2]

Whether a secular morality is good or bad says nothing about if a god exists.

Agreed! A person does not come to God based on proof measurable by the normal means of men, such as science or math. Rather...it starts with a little faith of which you seem to have none or too little:

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6

I have not discovered anything. I am just unconvinced that a god exists.

But you are the one who said you used to be a Christian which was faith based. What changed?

 

[Br. Bear]

 

[Quantrill]

Ok, but other Christians think different. Who is right?

First of all, I said several things. Which one are you talking about. Second of all, Christians everywhere are learning more and more about their faith. That they don't know certain things about their faith yet, does not take away from them what they do know.

You wern't concerned with 'who is right' when you made your statements in your post [HASH=2900]#(3[/HASH]). You used the term 'Christians'. I am addressing your statements, which are incorrect. If you don't know 'who' is right you shouldn't make such blanket statements.

If your'e going to argue that you can't believe because you don't know 'who' is right, then you are still in the same boat. You'r still in the dark.

The Christian does not assume God's or Jesus Christ's existence and Who They are. We believe and know.

Quantrill

 

[Vincent]

But you are the one who said you used to be a Christian which was faith based. What changed?

My criteria for what determines truth.