Yes, I am questioning the Judeo-Christian Bible in the 21st Century ......

[Bob Carabbio]

@Bob Carabbio,


YOUR QUOTE IN POST #78 OF MY CRITERIA TO BE A CHRISTIAN: "Under what criteria do you claim to be a "Christian"???"

You don't get something for nothing, therefore, since you never addressed my posts #8 and #12 in refutation to your other posts to me within this thread, I will not answer you regarding your question above. This is a discussion forum, not a RUN AWAY from discussion forum.

Good day.


.

SInce there was nothing of substance in either of 'em, I simply categorized 'em as "Religious" Lost.

 

[Shaolin]

@Shaolin,

YOUR QUOTE WHERE CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER THE OLD TESTAMENT LAWS: "We are not under the old covenant, nor any of the laws emanating from that covenant - because it was fulfilled by Christ and abrogated, being replaced by the new covenant and the new law of that covenant, the Law of Christ."

I am sorry, but Jesus and I disagree with the long standing notion over the millennia's that we are not under the Old Testament laws anymore, of which, Jesus' inspired words stated we are: "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled" (Matthew 5:18).

I'm sorry that you can't read and understand Scripture accurately, but I do understand why. As for your spurious and erroneous claim that Jesus taught that we are still under the Law of Moses, I will give you the accurate translation from the Greek of Matthew 5:18...

Matthew 5:17-18*
Do not think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I did not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Truthfully, I tell you, if heaven and earth perish, not one dot or the smallest stroke of the pen will pass away from the law without being fulfilled.


"if heaven and earth..." = the translation here of "if" is arrived at by taking the grammar of the Greek into consideration, where it is usually ignored in word-for-word translations. It is the Greek word heos ( ) which basically means "until," but when it is followed by the particle "an" (ἄν) as it is in this text, it indicates mere probability, not certainty, of the action addressed; this is particularly true (in this case as well) when the word is immediately followed by a verb in the Subjunctive mood. Therefore, it takes on the meaning of "if" and not "until." Secondly, the word "perish" comes from the first appearance of the word parerchomai ( παρέρχομαι ), which has the basic meaning of "to pass away" or "to pass near," but in this first use of the word in this text (for there are two times that it appears), it takes on the meaning of "to perish," whereas in its second appearance and use, it takes on the implied meaning of "to pass away without being fulfilled." Therefore, Jesus is not saying that He did not come to do away with the law or prophets, but rather that neither heaven nor earth would pass away before all had been fulfilled in the law and prophets. This is a far cry from what Reformed Theology tells us that the passage means.

Here Christ tells us that not one thing from the law of Moses will pass away, "without being fulfilled." He was speaking in an unusual way, for He is referring to the law of Moses which He Himself had already fulfilled, and more, at His baptism. John at first refused to baptize Jesus because he knew that Jesus didn't need a baptism of repentance, because He was the Messiah - He had never sinned. In Christ the law of Moses was completely fulfilled, but Jesus said to him, "Suffer it to be so now, for this is how we are to fulfill all righteousness," and then John baptized Him. We also know that Jesus fulfilled all the Mosaic law because we have other passages that tell us that He abrogated the law of Moses, and replaced it with the Law of Christ (see Luke 16:16; Eph. 2:15; and Heb. 7:12, 8:13, and 10:9). When looking up these references, remember that the words 'law' and 'covenant' are synonymous - the law is the covenant, and the covenant is the law (see Exo. 24:38 and Deu. 4:13). Another example of Christ speaking this way about something as if it had not yet been fulfilled, when it actually had been fulfilled, is when He said that Elijah was coming, and then a few lines later explained that "Elijah had already come," and then explained that John the Baptist was Elijah. When comparing this text with passages that teach that Christ did fulfill and abrogate the law of Moses, keep in mind that God does not contradict Himself, ever...therefore, the answer will only be found when we take all the passages pertinent to this 'apparent' contradiction, and harmonize them together with each other.

Now that you have been educated on what the verse actually says that your false ideology hinges upon, you can correct your understanding of this doctrine. Further evidence that you are misled...

Matthew 11:12-13
From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John,

Luke 16:16
The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it.

Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under the law [of Moses] but under grace.

Romans 7:6
But now we are released from the law [of Moses], having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

2 Corinthians 3:11
For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

What was being brought to an end, in context, was the old covenant and its law.

Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that He might create in Himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

This is a direct reference to the old covenant and its laws, "expressed in ordinances."

Hebrews 7:18
Because on the one hand, the former law is abrogated because it was weak and useless,

Hebrews 8:13
In that He said a new covenant, He abrogates the first one, and it is abrogated and has become old, and vanishing away as we speak.

Hebrews 10:9
then He added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

You are in error, BT...something that practically everyone on this forum who calls himself "brothersomething" has in common. Scripture is clear: the old covenant and everything that came with it was fulfilled and abrogated by Christ, and replaced by the New Covenant and its new law, the Law of Christ. You demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about...particularly when you claim that Jesus and Paul never taught this fact of Scripture.

Therefore, at the time of Jesus, He likened the continuance of the Mosaic Laws, all 613 of them, to the permanence of heaven and earth as shown in the passage above. Has heaven and earth passed away yet, no they have not. The "fulfilled" part of Matthew 5:18 and the permanence of heaven and earth passing away, is described in this passage: “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare” (2 Peter 3:10)

Negative. Sorry to burst your biased bubble, but I have just demonstrated both by the accurate rendering of the Greek for your main text, and by giving you the other passages that ratify what Jesus actually stated, that you don't know what you are talking about. You can disagree with me all you want, but Scripture, NOT your bias, has the final word. And it demonstrates, not just tells you, that you are wrong.

Therefore, when Jesus said that not one jot or tittle will pass from the 613 Old Testament Mosaic laws till heaven and earth pass away, as described in Matthew 5:18, and within 2 Peter 3:10, the heavens and earth do pass away, is the prerequisite to not having to follow the 613 Old Testament laws anymore, is with accordance of Jesus’ Second Coming which has not happed yet, therefore we are still under the Old Testament 613 Mosaic laws.

Again, your argument based upon Matthew 5:18 has been completely and permanently destroyed, being based upon faulty translation and interpretation.

Besides, we have these inspired by Jesus passages that shows we are to follow ALL of the Old Testament at this time:

“Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5)". Every word includes the Old Testament laws within the the Judeo-Christian Bible.

Sorry, but this verse does not say what you are reading into the text...yes, they are "flawless," that is a far cry from "you are still under the OT law." Try again, you have failed now three times...

"

God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" (Numbers 23:19).

Since Jesus, as our Hebrew Yahweh God incarnate, doesn't change His mind, therefore the the 613 Mosaic Laws of the Old Testament are to be followed to this day as well as the New Testament.

Yes, God does not change His mind...but since you have obviuosly never had any training on how to read and interpret the Scriptures, you fail to understand that everything in Scripture and human history regarding His Word and Christ, was planned out from before He created the cosmos. What does that mean...it means that abrogating the old law and the old covenant was ALWAYS the plan of God. He didn't change His mind, He made changes in history JUST LIKE HE HAD PLANNED TO.

You err...'brother' because you don't know the Scriptures. All you know is regurgitation of what you have been brainwashed with...nothing more.

Sidebar

:

Lest we forget, the Ten Commandments are located within the Old Testament, and I would be the last Christian that would say that we are not to follow them in respect since we hold this doctrine so dear and have protested when said 10 commandments are removed from public places! Agreed?

I do say...the 10 commandments were for the Jews, not gentiles...so again, you demonstrate that you don't know how to rightly divide the Word of God.

Shaolin, I thank you for your consideration and your time.

Sure, I hope you listen and amend your beliefs according to Scripture, and not the false teaching of men.

Blessings.

 

[Garee]

I'm sorry that you can't read and understand Scripture accurately, but I do understand why. As for your spurious and erroneous claim that Jesus taught that we are still under the Law of Moses, I will give you the accurate translation from the Greek of Matthew 5:18...

Matthew 5:17-18*
Do not think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I did not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Truthfully, I tell you, if heaven and earth perish, not one dot or the smallest stroke of the pen will pass away from the law without being fulfilled.


"if heaven and earth..." = the translation here of "if" is arrived at by taking the grammar of the Greek into consideration, where it is usually ignored in word-for-word translations. It is the Greek word heos ( ) which basically means "until," but when it is followed by the particle "an" (ἄν) as it is in this text, it indicates mere probability, not certainty, of the action addressed; this is particularly true (in this case as well) when the word is immediately followed by a verb in the Subjunctive mood. Therefore, it takes on the meaning of "if" and not "until." Secondly, the word "perish" comes from the first appearance of the word parerchomai ( παρέρχομαι ), which has the basic meaning of "to pass away" or "to pass near," but in this first use of the word in this text (for there are two times that it appears), it takes on the meaning of "to perish," whereas in its second appearance and use, it takes on the implied meaning of "to pass away without being fulfilled." Therefore, Jesus is not saying that He did not come to do away with the law or prophets, but rather that neither heaven nor earth would pass away before all had been fulfilled in the law and prophets. This is a far cry from what Reformed Theology tells us that the passage means.

Here Christ tells us that not one thing from the law of Moses will pass away, "without being fulfilled." He was speaking in an unusual way, for He is referring to the law of Moses which He Himself had already fulfilled, and more, at His baptism. John at first refused to baptize Jesus because he knew that Jesus didn't need a baptism of repentance, because He was the Messiah - He had never sinned. In Christ the law of Moses was completely fulfilled, but Jesus said to him, "Suffer it to be so now, for this is how we are to fulfill all righteousness," and then John baptized Him. We also know that Jesus fulfilled all the Mosaic law because we have other passages that tell us that He abrogated the law of Moses, and replaced it with the Law of Christ (see Luke 16:16; Eph. 2:15; and Heb. 7:12, 8:13, and 10:9). When looking up these references, remember that the words 'law' and 'covenant' are synonymous - the law is the covenant, and the covenant is the law (see Exo. 24:38 and Deu. 4:13). Another example of Christ speaking this way about something as if it had not yet been fulfilled, when it actually had been fulfilled, is when He said that Elijah was coming, and then a few lines later explained that "Elijah had already come," and then explained that John the Baptist was Elijah. When comparing this text with passages that teach that Christ did fulfill and abrogate the law of Moses, keep in mind that God does not contradict Himself, ever...therefore, the answer will only be found when we take all the passages pertinent to this 'apparent' contradiction, and harmonize them together with each other.

Now that you have been educated on what the verse actually says that your false ideology hinges upon, you can correct your understanding of this doctrine. Further evidence that you are misled...

Matthew 11:12-13
From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John,

Luke 16:16
The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it.

Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under the law [of Moses] but under grace.

Romans 7:6
But now we are released from the law [of Moses], having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

2 Corinthians 3:11
For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

What was being brought to an end, in context, was the old covenant and its law.

Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that He might create in Himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

This is a direct reference to the old covenant and its laws, "expressed in ordinances."

Hebrews 7:18
Because on the one hand, the former law is abrogated because it was weak and useless,

Hebrews 8:13
In that He said a new covenant, He abrogates the first one, and it is abrogated and has become old, and vanishing away as we speak.

Hebrews 10:9
then He added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

You are in error, BT...something that practically everyone on this forum who calls himself "brothersomething" has in common. Scripture is clear: the old covenant and everything that came with it was fulfilled and abrogated by Christ, and replaced by the New Covenant and its new law, the Law of Christ. You demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about...particularly when you claim that Jesus and Paul never taught this fact of Scripture.



Negative. Sorry to burst your biased bubble, but I have just demonstrated both by the accurate rendering of the Greek for your main text, and by giving you the other passages that ratify what Jesus actually stated, that you don't know what you are talking about. You can disagree with me all you want, but Scripture, NOT your bias, has the final word. And it demonstrates, not just tells you, that you are wrong.




Again, your argument based upon Matthew 5:18 has been completely and permanently destroyed, being based upon faulty translation and interpretation.




Sorry, but this verse does not say what you are reading into the text...yes, they are "flawless," that is a far cry from "you are still under the OT law." Try again, you have failed now three times...



Yes, God does not change His mind...but since you have obviuosly never had any training on how to read and interpret the Scriptures, you fail to understand that everything in Scripture and human history regarding His Word and Christ, was planned out from before He created the cosmos. What does that mean...it means that abrogating the old law and the old covenant was ALWAYS the plan of God. He didn't change His mind, He made changes in history JUST LIKE HE HAD PLANNED TO.

You err...'brother' because you don't know the Scriptures. All you know is regurgitation of what you have been brainwashed with...nothing more.



I do say...the 10 commandments were for the Jews, not gentiles...so again, you demonstrate that you don't know how to rightly divide the Word of God.



Sure, I hope you listen and amend your beliefs according to Scripture, and not the false teaching of men.

Blessings.

Its easy to se that you do not rightfully divide the different kinds of laws. Satan the counterfeiter would have it all as one . Like always his MO is what God calls one he calls many or what God counts as many he would make it all one in the same.

The clay taking away the faith (understanding ) of the Potter .

Fulfilling the ceremony did not abolish the written moral law, it abolished the shadow of it .

The letter of the law death written in the Bible. (thou shal not or you will in dying end up dead. The earthen body of death returning to the dust and the temporal spirit return to the one Father of all spirit life .

Moral sin is divided from the ceremonial law as a gospel sign to the whole world .

ceremonies are sign to those who practice the carnal laws . they cannot complete or make the conscience perfect . The moral law will be here until the last day under the Sun .The end of temporal time .

The first century reformation came over two thousand years ago .

Hebrews 9:8-10 The Holy Ghost this signifying,(using the temporal corrupted things seen to show) that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

 

[Rhema]

1. Remove the book of Revelations entirely from the Bible!

1. I cannot remove something that wasn't there to begin with. Revelation is not in the canon of the Church of the East and never was. It was rejected as scripture by most Bishops in the Catholic Church as late as 325 AD, and not added in until around 397 AD. I'm hoping to get you to understand who put that book in your Bible and why. I don't disrespect those who have a reason to include Revelation in their canon, as long as they know the history behind its inclusion, and I ask for the same respect from others for the fact that the book of Revelation is not in our canon.

2. Question the entire New Testament altogether after reading the Metzger book.

Did you read Metzger's book ?? Seriously, dude. You haven't. At least be honest enough to admit this. Then ask yourself how you can draw a conclusion about a book that you've never read. That's rather disappointing. You hadn't seemed like someone who would pull that trick.

3. It is not a fact that the men were Holy in the passages of 1st Thessalonians 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:20-21 stating that the Bible is the inspired word of Jesus

WHAT MEN ??

L. Ron Hubbard? Joseph Smith? Charles Taze Russell? John Paul II? Martin Luther? Arius? Pelagius? Aquinas? Irenaeus? Tertullian? Augustine? Polycarp? Origen? Are these men in your passages actually named?

Of course there were Holy men, but where does your scripture verses use the word BIBLE ?? It doesn't. That's a fact. Therefore you are drawing conclusion by the slight of hand in changing the words that were actually written. Where in either passage is the word BIBLE ?? Go ahead. Highlight it for me.

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.​

(1 Thessalonians 2:13 KJV)​

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.​

(2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV)​

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I think you have your definitions askew about what the terms "word of God" and "scripture" mean. in 2 Peter, "scripture" would mean the LXX - The Septuagint - the Old Testament. He even defines what "scripture" means - "prophecy ... in old time." OLD TIME... And none of the Epistles are OLD TIME. That's what Peter meant, although..., well...., 2nd Peter is not in our canon either. (I did ask you to review the table of contents.)

Your Devil Speak is wrong once again

It's "devil speak" because I'm asking you the name of the actual person who told you these things?? Was it your mom? Your dad? Your youth minister? Your neighbor? Some pastor somewhere? Did God send you an email? In essence, I'm asking you to look at Epistemology (LINK)- knowing how you know what you know. Allow me to give you a different example.

Who told you that Jesus was the Son of God ??
Who told Peter that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God ??
Jesus actually answered that question himself. Let us read ....

When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.​

(Matthew 16:13-17 KJV)​

So who told Peter that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God ?? THE FATHER DID. Moreover, Jesus said that such revelation BY THE FATHER is what he is building his church upon.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock (the revelation by the Father that Jesus is the Christ) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.​

(Matthew 16:18 KJV)​

Now if you ask me who told me that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, I can truthfully and honestly say that the Father in heaven revealed this to me.

SO....

Who told you that the term "Word of God" means Bible ?? Especially since there are TWO of them ?? (... There are two Word-of-God(s) not Bibles.) Think back... it didn't just pop into your brain one day.

Therefore, in your way of thinking, take a magic marker and blot out these passages!

NO !! Take a magic marker and fix your definitions.

“For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.”

What it doesn't say ... "For the Bible is living and active, sharper than ...."

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1).

What it doesn't say ... "In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the BIBLE WAS GOD. (To some people it is, though.)

“This God—his way is perfect; the word of the Lord proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him.” (Psalm 18:30)

What it doesn't say ... "“This God—his way is perfect; the BIBLE proves true;

“Since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;” (1 Peter 1:23)

What it doesn't say ... " through the living and abiding BIBLE..."

“And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God,” (Ephesians 6:17)

What it doesn't say ... "and the sword of the Spirit which is the BIBLE..."

WHAT DOES It SAY ?? ... (And this might help you see my perspective)

How Do I Put on the Armor of God?

I was busy with my wife earlier today. The reason i asked if you had seen the armor of God . Simply. We Christian will often jump to conclusions that words like Truth, and Righteousness are example of faith. And they are, but they are more than words in the Love of God. Just as Jesus is a...

www.talkjesus.com

“Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.” (Proverbs 30:5)

What it doesn't say ... The BIBLE proves true.

“But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” (Luke 11:28)

What it does not say ... and please read this closely - "Blessed rather are those who read the Bible and keep it." Brother, it doesn't say that. In truth, you're changing the words.

The membership can only assume that because of your Satanic modus operandi

The true Satanic modus operandi here, sir, is your changing what's written down into something it doesn't say, and all the "membership" can read this.

I've categorically stated that there are Two Word-of-God(s) and you don't know this. And it would seem you're too selfassured to even ask what I mean? How can you pretend to preach at and condemn others, especially given the questions you have? STOP CHANGING THE WORDS, and maybe you'll start to find some answers.

you will pay for your transgressions upon Judgment Day

And BOOM there it is... the threat: (You're not going to heaven, Jesus' gonna get you.) Why do you Christians always need to threaten other people with FEAR ?? It's because Jesus never knew you and never perfected you in Love.

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth (and causeth to fear) is not made perfect in love.​

(1 John 4:18 KJV+)​

praise Jesus' revenge!

And your inner hate shows forth. The demon is revealed.

Sir, your church has done you a disservice, and you're not helping yourself any by attacking me either.

God bless,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Yes, I believe that the Gospel of Thomas is also from the inspired word of Jesus the Christ as Yahweh God incarnate!

Okay... Well that's a bit troubling and puzzling, because you condemned me for "changing" the canon when you yourself have just done so.

The only concern I have about the Gospel of Thomas is that it commands a vegetarian diet, and we know Jesus ate lamb and fish.

So there's that....

Rhema, Is there a reason that you did not want to engage me upon myself in choosing Jesus as being Yahweh God incarnate over Him being just the Son of God? Don’t you want to talk about this as well, therefore, what do you believe Jesus to be, the Son of Yahweh God, or Yahweh God incarnate? I would be interested in more of your opinions upon this topic as well.

PM sent.

In closing, and using your way of thinking, who told you that Jesus existed in the first place?

My mom. She would take me to church every Sunday since I was born. And my Grandfather who was a pastor in the ECC denomination. But by the age of eight, I was teaching Sunday School, since nobody seemed to actually understand what they were talking about. I was given the gift of miracles around the age of 14, and my walk with God has been (to put it mildly) INTENSE. But it was the Father in Heaven who revealed unto me that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. I was seven at the time, and know exactly where this happened. A spirit of Belief came over me with bedrock assurance that remains unshakable, and through the Holy Spirit, the Father has spoken to me directly on several occasions, in the manner as is described in the gospels.

Rhema

leave your Devil Speak towards the Judeo-Christian Bible upon the sidelines this time, agreed?

I never agree to the whiles and schemes of the devil.... calling truth "Devil Speak" what are you, 12 years old?

........................... ohhhhhhhhhh - well drop me a penny.

 

[Garee]

1. I cannot remove something that wasn't there to begin with. Revelation is not in the canon of the Church of the East and never was. It was rejected as scripture by most Bishops in the Catholic Church as late as 325 AD, and not added in until around 397 AD. I'm hoping to get you to understand who put that book in your Bible and why. I don't disrespect those who have a reason to include Revelation in their canon, as long as they know the history behind its inclusion, and I ask for the same respect from others for the fact that the book of Revelation is not in our canon.

Removing the last chapter or book (Revelation) does not free a person to add whatsoever their own mouth says as a oral tradition ."I heard it through the fathers, kings, queens grape vine. . a government of men

Who really cares what a hierarchy of men (the abomination of desolation) the venerable lording it over the understanding or faith of the unvenerable , comes up with . Its easy to se they violate the warning not to add to the perfect book of the law , the Bible .The last new revelation is still the book of Revelation sealed with 7 seals till the end of time.

There are no laws missing by which we could know the one living author of the 66 books as chapters more adequately or intimately .

The question is why would a person need more than he has freely given other than to give the illusion he is still adding to the whole or perfect?

 

[BrotherDThomas]

@Bob Carabbio,


YOUR QUOTE IN POST #81 WHERE YOUR EXCUSE TO RUN AWAY FROM DISCUSSION : "SInce there was nothing of substance in either of 'em, I simply categorized 'em as "Religious" Lost."

Is this the latest pseudo-christian excuse to use when you are put into a corner by me and can't get out? If you are going to throw in the towel early, just say so next time, okay? One of the questions that I asked you pertaining to your faith, was what division of Christianity do you follow? If you runaway again from this simple question, then that precludes that you are too embarrassed to tell us, plain and simple!

Jesus and I meet runaway pseudo-christians from religious discussion like you all the time.

.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

@Bob Carabbio,


YOUR QUOTE IN POST #81 WHERE YOUR EXCUSE TO RUN AWAY FROM DISCUSSION : "SInce there was nothing of substance in either of 'em, I simply categorized 'em as "Religious" Lost."

Is this the latest pseudo-christian excuse to use when you are put into a corner by me and can't get out? If you are going to throw in the towel early, just say so next time, okay? One of the questions that I asked you pertaining to your faith, was what division of Christianity do you follow? If you runaway again from this simple question, then that precludes that you are too embarrassed to tell us, plain and simple!

Jesus and I meet runaway pseudo-christians from religious discussion like you all the time.

.

Chuckle!!! I'm a Charismatic, non-systematic, non-denominational Theologically Eclectic Mongrel, who's been a member in good standing of the Assemblies of God for most of the last 58 years. The AG doesn't define me, BUT I find most of their agenda at least acceptable (except for the 7-11 stuff they do in song service). I get my worship music at Bluegrass jams.

Next question??

 

[BrotherDThomas]

.
@Shaolin,


In outright addressing your total biblical ignorance and Devil Speak in trying in vain to REWRITE the scriptures in your pitiful post #82, I will begin as follows:

STRIKE ONE!

You erroneously and Satanically state Matthew 5:17-18 as follows: “Do not think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets, I did not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Truthfully, I tell you, “IF” heaven and earth perish, not one dot or the smallest stroke of the pen will pass away from the law without being fulfilled.”

Therefore, the Codex Sinaiticus Bible version that is the closet to the actual word’s of Jesus the Christ states you are wrong: “Think not that I have come to destroy the law or the prophets: I have not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say to you, "TILL" heaven and earth pass away, one yod or one point shall in no way pass from the law, till all be accomplished.” (Matthew 5: 17-18, Codex Sinaiticus)

Since the Codex Sinaiticus is one of the earliest known manuscripts ,and is placed in high esteem among biblical scholars of the Christian Bible, and written in the 4th century, and how it relates to Matthew 5: 17-18 in not including your misnomer and insidious term of “IF” heaven and earth passes away, usurps your blundering “version” of the passage in question, PERIOD! 2+2=4.



STRIKE TWO:

In the following versions of the Judeo-Christian Bible, NOT ONE version, I repeat, NOT ONE version uses your insidious term of “IF” the earth and Heaven passes away in Matthew 5:17-18, PERIOD! Therefore, are you going to call the following translations of the verse in question in the following Bibles as LIES?! YES?

New International Version
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

New Living Translation
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.

English Standard Version
For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Berean Study Bible
For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Berean Literal Bible
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth shall pass away, not even one iota, nor one stroke of a letter, shall pass away from the law, until everything should happen.

King James Bible
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

New King James Version
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

New American Standard Bible
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished!

NASB 1995
“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

NASB 1977
“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished.

Amplified Bible
For I assure you and most solemnly say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke [of the pen] will pass from the Law until all things [which it foreshadows] are accomplished.

Christian Standard Bible
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter will pass away from the law until all things are accomplished.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For I assure you: Until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter will pass from the law until all things are accomplished.

American Standard Version
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Amen, I say to you that until Heaven and earth will pass away, one Yodh or one Taag and will not pass away from The Written Law until everything will happen.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.

English Revised Version
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I can guarantee this truth: Until the earth and the heavens disappear, neither a period nor a comma will disappear from Moses' Teachings before everything has come true.

International Standard Version
Because I tell all of you with certainty that until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished.

Literal Standard Version
for truly I say to you, until the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the Law, until all may come to pass.

NET Bible
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place.

New Heart English Bible
For truly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or part of a letter will disappear from the Law, until all things are accomplished.

Weymouth New Testament
Solemnly I tell you that until Heaven and earth pass away, not one iota or smallest detail will pass away from the Law until all has taken place.

World English Bible
For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.

King James 2000 Bible
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

American King James Version
For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

American Standard Version
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.




STRIKE THREE, YOU ARE OUT IN THE NAME OF JESUS!

All of your comical jabberwocky and deceiving translations in trying so hard to change Jesus’ direct and literal words in Matthew 5: 17-18, in using the term “IF,” the heavens and earth pass away, have fallen flat upon their proverbial face! Therefore, you are guilty of the following Jesus inspired passage, to wit: “As he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.” (2 Peter 3:16)

Therefore, ONCE AGAIN, Jesus’ fulfillment is NOT until the earth and heaven do pass away as easily stated herewith AGAIN, and this is the time of Jesus’ horrific return herewith: “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare” (2 Peter 3:10) Sound familiar AGAIN? HUH? Yes, 2 Peter 3:10 shown above!

Shaolin, seriously, in the same vein as you state to me, your biblical ignorance is without bounds and don’t think that Jesus is not watching you in his respect! (Hebrews 4:13)


.

 

[BrotherDThomas]

.
Shaolin,

I am sorry, but Jesus and I have to continue addressing your further biblical ignorance in not accepting Jesus' literal words to follow the Old Testament 613 Mosaic Laws:

ONE OF MANY OF YOUR BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTES: “I do say...the 10 commandments were for the Jews, not gentiles...so again, you demonstrate that you don't know how to rightly divide the Word of God.”

OMG, WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY? LOL!!! WHEN WILL YOUR BIBLE IGNORANCE EVER END?

Simply put, the following biblical axioms derail your presumed knowledge that all commandments are for the Jews only, relating to Jesus the Christ and not following Jewish traditions, of which, you have to be a JEW to be a Christian in the first place as explicitly shown below, H-E-L-L-O?!

1. Jesus as our Jewish God stated: “You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth [Hebrews]; therefore I will punish you for all your sins.” (Amos 3:2). Jesus chose only the Hebrews for His people!

2. Jesus as our Jewish God stated: “a people for his own possession [Hebrews], above all peoples on the face of the earth” (Deuteronomy. 7:6) Again, Jesus as God chose only the Hebrews for His posession!

3. Jesus as our Jewish God stated:”Above his head they placed the written charge against him: this is Jesus, "The King of the Jews" (Matthew 27:37). Jesus was king of the Jews as His posession!

4. Jesus as our Jewish God stated: “He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep [Hebrews] of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24) Jesus was only sent for the lost sheep of who? Yes, the JEWS ONLY and no one else!

Remember, the term "Christian" is defined as a follower of Jesus, who is the God of the Jews ONLY as shown in the passages above. Therefore, which Jewish sect do you belong too? Can you tell the membership? Yes?



At your total embarrassment once again, Jesus stated to follow the Old Testament Laws in the following passages:

1. "Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19)

Therefore, in the passage above Jesus upholds the 613 Mosaic commandments within the scriptures in His time period, therefore showing that they were still in effect, whereas AGAIN, only when these commandments are to be taken away, is when Jesus returns to earth! ( 2 Peter 3:10) Get it ? Huh?


2. “But it is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one dot of the Law to become void.” (Luke 16:17).

Again, Jesus said that the Mosaic 613 Laws are still in effect at His time on earth until heaven and earth disappear, therefore He did NOT abrogate them in any way within His time period! Do you want to call Jesus a LIAR in this respect???!!! I revert you back to 2 Peter 3:10 to connect to Luke 16:17 of when the Old Testament laws are no longer in use! 2+2=4, oil and water don’t mix, and your presumed knowledge upon this topic goes serverely wanting!


3. Jesus stated; “If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.” (John 15:10)

Who is Jesus' Father that He kept His laws? YES, Himself as Yahweh God incarnate of the Old Testament Mosaic Laws, giving creedence to the OT laws to follow at His time and beyond! 2+2=4.



Paul commands church leaders and fellow Christians to preach the Old Testament:

Paul is referring to the Old Testament when he spoke of the sacred writings which are the Old Testament: “Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching but having itching ears they will accumulate for the themselves teachers to suit their own passion, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. (2 Tim. 4:2–4)

Barring the FACT that you are guilty of the last sentence within the above passage, Paul is preaching to follow the Old Testament writings. understood?

Remember, at the time Jesus only had the Jewish Old Testament writings to refer too, get it? Obviously not!

You are guilty of another Jesus inspired passage herewith: ”I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel not that there is another gospel, but there are some who are confusing you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ." (Galations 1-6)



Enough of your Devil Speak! You seemingly were sent here by Satan Himself because of your vain attempts in trying to rewrite the Bible in the name of Satan! Blaspheme on your part, of which Jesus will take action upon you subsequent to your earthly demise! “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)


.

 

[Shaolin]

.
@Shaolin,


In outright addressing your total biblical ignorance and Devil Speak in trying in vain to REWRITE the scriptures in your pitiful post #82, I will begin as follows:

STRIKE ONE!

You erroneously and Satanically state Matthew 5:17-18 as follows: “Do not think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets, I did not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Truthfully, I tell you, “IF” heaven and earth perish, not one dot or the smallest stroke of the pen will pass away from the law without being fulfilled.”

Therefore, the Codex Sinaiticus Bible version that is the closet to the actual word’s of Jesus the Christ states you are wrong: “Think not that I have come to destroy the law or the prophets: I have not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say to you, "TILL" heaven and earth pass away, one yod or one point shall in no way pass from the law, till all be accomplished.” (Matthew 5: 17-18, Codex Sinaiticus)

Since the Codex Sinaiticus is one of the earliest known manuscripts ,and is placed in high esteem among biblical scholars of the Christian Bible, and written in the 4th century, and how it relates to Matthew 5: 17-18 in not including your misnomer and insidious term of “IF” heaven and earth passes away, usurps your blundering “version” of the passage in question, PERIOD! 2+2=4.



STRIKE TWO:

In the following versions of the Judeo-Christian Bible, NOT ONE version, I repeat, NOT ONE version uses your insidious term of “IF” the earth and Heaven passes away in Matthew 5:17-18, PERIOD! Therefore, are you going to call the following translations of the verse in question in the following Bibles as LIES?! YES?

New International Version
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

New Living Translation
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.

English Standard Version
For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Berean Study Bible
For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Berean Literal Bible
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth shall pass away, not even one iota, nor one stroke of a letter, shall pass away from the law, until everything should happen.

King James Bible
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

New King James Version
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

New American Standard Bible
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished!

NASB 1995
“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

NASB 1977
“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished.

Amplified Bible
For I assure you and most solemnly say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke [of the pen] will pass from the Law until all things [which it foreshadows] are accomplished.

Christian Standard Bible
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter will pass away from the law until all things are accomplished.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For I assure you: Until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter will pass from the law until all things are accomplished.

American Standard Version
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Amen, I say to you that until Heaven and earth will pass away, one Yodh or one Taag and will not pass away from The Written Law until everything will happen.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.

English Revised Version
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I can guarantee this truth: Until the earth and the heavens disappear, neither a period nor a comma will disappear from Moses' Teachings before everything has come true.

International Standard Version
Because I tell all of you with certainty that until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished.

Literal Standard Version
for truly I say to you, until the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the Law, until all may come to pass.

NET Bible
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place.

New Heart English Bible
For truly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or part of a letter will disappear from the Law, until all things are accomplished.

Weymouth New Testament
Solemnly I tell you that until Heaven and earth pass away, not one iota or smallest detail will pass away from the Law until all has taken place.

World English Bible
For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.

King James 2000 Bible
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

American King James Version
For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

American Standard Version
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.




STRIKE THREE, YOU ARE OUT IN THE NAME OF JESUS!

All of your comical jabberwocky and deceiving translations in trying so hard to change Jesus’ direct and literal words in Matthew 5: 17-18, in using the term “IF,” the heavens and earth pass away, have fallen flat upon their proverbial face! Therefore, you are guilty of the following Jesus inspired passage, to wit: “As he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.” (2 Peter 3:16)

Therefore, ONCE AGAIN, Jesus’ fulfillment is NOT until the earth and heaven do pass away as easily stated herewith AGAIN, and this is the time of Jesus’ horrific return herewith: “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare” (2 Peter 3:10) Sound familiar AGAIN? HUH? Yes, 2 Peter 3:10 shown above!

Shaolin, seriously, in the same vein as you state to me, your biblical ignorance is without bounds and don’t think that Jesus is not watching you in his respect! (Hebrews 4:13)
.

Sorry..."bro"...but you don't know what you are talking about. Go learn Greek, and then after you have, then come back. Right now you are like the kindergartener arguing in vein with the professor. You lose...again, and again, and again...

 

[Shaolin]

.
Shaolin,

I am sorry, but Jesus and I have to continue addressing your further biblical ignorance in not accepting Jesus' literal words to follow the Old Testament 613 Mosaic Laws:

ONE OF MANY OF YOUR BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTES: “I do say...the 10 commandments were for the Jews, not gentiles...so again, you demonstrate that you don't know how to rightly divide the Word of God.”

OMG, WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY? LOL!!! WHEN WILL YOUR BIBLE IGNORANCE EVER END?

Simply put, the following biblical axioms derail your presumed knowledge that all commandments are for the Jews only, relating to Jesus the Christ and not following Jewish traditions, of which, you have to be a JEW to be a Christian in the first place as explicitly shown below, H-E-L-L-O?!

1. Jesus as our Jewish God stated: “You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth [Hebrews]; therefore I will punish you for all your sins.” (Amos 3:2). Jesus chose only the Hebrews for His people!

2. Jesus as our Jewish God stated: “a people for his own possession [Hebrews], above all peoples on the face of the earth” (Deuteronomy. 7:6) Again, Jesus as God chose only the Hebrews for His posession!

3. Jesus as our Jewish God stated:”Above his head they placed the written charge against him: this is Jesus, "The King of the Jews" (Matthew 27:37). Jesus was king of the Jews as His posession!

4. Jesus as our Jewish God stated: “He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep [Hebrews] of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24) Jesus was only sent for the lost sheep of who? Yes, the JEWS ONLY and no one else!

Remember, the term "Christian" is defined as a follower of Jesus, who is the God of the Jews ONLY as shown in the passages above. Therefore, which Jewish sect do you belong too? Can you tell the membership? Yes?



At your total embarrassment once again, Jesus stated to follow the Old Testament Laws in the following passages:

1. "Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19)

Therefore, in the passage above Jesus upholds the 613 Mosaic commandments within the scriptures in His time period, therefore showing that they were still in effect, whereas AGAIN, only when these commandments are to be taken away, is when Jesus returns to earth! ( 2 Peter 3:10) Get it ? Huh?


2. “But it is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one dot of the Law to become void.” (Luke 16:17).

Again, Jesus said that the Mosaic 613 Laws are still in effect at His time on earth until heaven and earth disappear, therefore He did NOT abrogate them in any way within His time period! Do you want to call Jesus a LIAR in this respect???!!! I revert you back to 2 Peter 3:10 to connect to Luke 16:17 of when the Old Testament laws are no longer in use! 2+2=4, oil and water don’t mix, and your presumed knowledge upon this topic goes serverely wanting!


3. Jesus stated; “If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.” (John 15:10)

Who is Jesus' Father that He kept His laws? YES, Himself as Yahweh God incarnate of the Old Testament Mosaic Laws, giving creedence to the OT laws to follow at His time and beyond! 2+2=4.



Paul commands church leaders and fellow Christians to preach the Old Testament:

Paul is referring to the Old Testament when he spoke of the sacred writings which are the Old Testament: “Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching but having itching ears they will accumulate for the themselves teachers to suit their own passion, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. (2 Tim. 4:2–4)

Barring the FACT that you are guilty of the last sentence within the above passage, Paul is preaching to follow the Old Testament writings. understood?

Remember, at the time Jesus only had the Jewish Old Testament writings to refer too, get it? Obviously not!

You are guilty of another Jesus inspired passage herewith: ”I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel not that there is another gospel, but there are some who are confusing you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ." (Galations 1-6)



Enough of your Devil Speak! You seemingly were sent here by Satan Himself because of your vain attempts in trying to rewrite the Bible in the name of Satan! Blaspheme on your part, of which Jesus will take action upon you subsequent to your earthly demise! “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)


.

Dude, I know that you are probably too ignorant to understand this, but you speak out of your ears, not out of any kind of intelligence on the subject. You don't know Scripture, all you know is to find a text, take it out of its context, and reinterpret it to mean what you want it to mean. That is not exegesis, that is eisegesis...and I will not continue with such nonsense out of your own mind.

 

[BrotherDThomas]

.
@Bob Carabbio,

Bob, now see, that wasn’t that hard to do in giving me your division of Christianity, and with the ways you follow the faith, was it? Of course not! You picked up your towel of defeat and through it to the wayside, good for you!

Now, there was “meat” in my posts #8 and #12 that you convenianlty threw aside, especially upon the Born Again concept, even if Jesus mentioned it within the scriptures in having to perform this act. Furthermore, upon me not “cherry picking” the Bible on the good parts, but where I also have to accept the bad parts, and of course you calling me a “Religious Critic” which fell flat upon its face because I am not “spoon-fed” the scriptures, where again I have to accept the happy parts along with the very disturbing parts as well.

Welcome to the discussion forum here at Talk Jesus!

Next question you said? How about this one, you state that you are "non-denominational," but in the same sentence you state that you are a member of the Assembly of God church. Help me with the math on this one, in how these two seemingly contradicting propositions align themselves.


.

 

[BrotherDThomas]

@Shaolin,

YOUR PITIFUL QUOTE #91 IN RUNNING AWAY FROM BIBLICAL AXIOMS IN MY POST #89 RELATIVE TO THE TOPIC AT HAND: "Sorry..."bro"...but you don't know what you are talking about. Go learn Greek, and then after you have, then come back. Right now you are like the kindergartener arguing in vein with the professor. You lose...again, and again, and again..."

TALK JESUS FORUM, we have a clean up in isle 666 where poor Shaolin was schooled by me with biblical axioms to the topic at hand, and subsequently made a mess of himself in the aftermath in front of the esteemed membership! Bring lots of mops and disinfectant, hurry!


Shaolin, the only one that has lost terribly is YOU by running away from my posts #89 and #90 that as shown, you could no more address them than a 5 year old at a preschool kindergarten class! As explicitly shown, Jesus and I EASILY struck you out upon what you thought you knew, but in actuality, YOU DIDN'T!

Listen up Bible fool, the Codex Codex Sinaiticus Bible version of Matthew 5:17-18 WAS WRITTEN IN GREEK and is one of the premier first Bibles written in Greek as shown below! Therefore, it does not use the term "IF" like you proposed in your comical mumbo jumbo Satanic rewrite of this passage in your post #82, but it includes "TILL, heavens and earth pass away." Therefore, barring the biblical FACT that I had shown you that Jesus promoted the Old Testament Laws, this child like notion of yours in using "IF" instead of "TILL" totally quashes your feeble attempt in saying that Jesus abrogated the Old Testament Laws by Him being present in the biblical era! NOT!!!

"Think not that I have come to destroy the law or the prophets: I have not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say to you, "TILL" heaven and earth pass away, one yod or one point shall in no way pass from the law, till all be accomplished.” (Matthew 5: 17-18, Codex Sinaiticus)


1. What happened when I had shown a "plethora" of different Bible versions that use the term "UNTIL" instead of your misnomer of your misconceived "IF" within Matthew 5: 17-18? Was it too much biblical FACT to handle in one of my posts, therefore you had to runaway from my godly post #89? Is that it?

2. Was 2 Peter 3:10 too much for you to handle in supporting Jesus' position of the Old Laws will vanish when He returns? Yes? No refutation by you whatsoever, other than to runaway in front of the membership with lame sophomoric excuses? How sad.


.

 

[BrotherDThomas]

.
@Shaolin,


WHOOPS, YOU'RE RUNNING AWAY AGAIN IN YOUR QUOTE #92 FROM JESUS TALK DISCUSSION IN MY POST #90 WITH YET ANOTHER LAME EXCUSE HEREWITH: "Dude, I know that you are probably too ignorant to understand this, but you speak out of your ears, not out of any kind of intelligence on the subject. You don't know Scripture, all you know is to find a text, take it out of its context, and reinterpret it to mean what you want it to mean. That is not exegesis, that is eisegesis...and I will not continue with such nonsense out of your own mind."

To the janitors of this premier TALK JESUS FORUM, I am truly sorry, but we have another clean up on isle 666 again where Shaolin was biblically schooled again by me, and of course, subsequently he made another mess of himself. Bring more mops, water, disinfectant and a change of clothing for poor Shaolin this time, thank you!


1. Shaolin, was it just too much again for you to make a Bible fool of yourself when you had the audacity to state that the 10 commandments in the Old Testament was for the JEWS ONLY? LOL. Whereas, I had biblically shown you why you were so wrong upon this proposition 4 times! Ouch! Are you still bleeding?

2. Was it just too much again where I had shown you that Jesus promoted the Old Testament Laws, of which goes directly against what you had shown the membership? Are actual biblical axioms getting in your way again, therefore you have to run away from them in front of the membership with no responses?

3. Was it again scary for you in the fact that I showed you that Paul taught that you are to follow the Old Testament Laws which derails your position upon this matter?

4. Was it frightening for you in where I had shown you all of the Bible passages that you are so guilty of, and had no refutation thereof?


In closing your outright embarrassing times within this thread, you are who you pretend to be, of which deduces to you are a Bible ignorant pseudo-christian at best! Jesus is watching you, and I am sure He is not smiling in your behalf! (Hebrews 4:13)


.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

How about this one, you state that you are "non-denominational," but in the same sentence you state that you are a member of the Assembly of God church. Help me with the math on this one, in how these two seemingly contradicting propositions align themselves.

Simple - I'm on the books as a Member of Crossroads of Life Assembly of God Church in DeSoto, TX (and get my tax statements from them these days).

Paranthetically, since I was "paedobaptized" as a Roman Catholic back in 1942, I'm on their books also. No Big deal.

I've ALSO been a member in the Southern Baptist, American Baptist, United Methodist, and United Church of Christ denominations. Over the decades.

BUT, just because I'm on the books (and have been for most of the last 58 years) of Assembly of God Churches, doesn't mean that they necessarily "Define me" politically, Traditionally, or theologically - although the 16 Fundamental Truths in the AG are acceptable to me in general, and I see supporting their MISSIONARY Outreach as a Valuable thing. It's the most effective one in the world.

SInce I'm "Full Gospel" oriented, becoming part of a "Cessationist" Denomination, wouldn't be a particularly good idea.

HOWEVER, one aspect of the Charismatic outpouring in the '70s was to DETACH Christians From "denominalization" in general, and we met together and worshipped as Brothers, and Sisters in the Lord. Any Charismatic meeting in Ohio in the '70s was likely to have 1/3-1/2 born again Roman Catholics in the Group, along with UCC, Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalians, etc. but the common thing among all of us was that we'd all SEEN, AND Experienced something infinitely HIGHER than the "Precious beliefs", "Traditions", and religious paradigms of organized denominational Christianity.

When the Charismatic OUTPOURING ended, and degenerated into the "Charismatic Movement", there were those who wanted to "Keep it going" (which was impossible - revivals come and go at God's schedule, not ours), and there were those of us who decided to go back into our Institutional churches, which most of us did - Changing them significantly in the process.

We realized that the "Precious doctrines", and "Traditions" of the Religio/Political Denominations were relatively UNIMPORTANT to the REAL mission of the church - i.e. to make disciples who answered to, and were guided by God by the Holy Spirit. and not by some "church rule book".

 

[BrotherDThomas]

@Rhema,


YOU ACCEPTING NOT TO INCLUDE THE BOOK REVELATION QUOTE: "I cannot remove something that wasn't there to begin with. Revelation is not in the canon of the Church of the East and never was. It was rejected as scripture by most Bishops in the Catholic Church as late as 325 AD, and not added in until around 397 AD."

I don't give a damn when it was added, where the bottom line is your pagan church does not include it in your "one of many versions" of the Judeo-Christian Bible! Your ungodly faith has also removed the Second Epistle of Peter, Second Epistle of John, Third Epistle of John, Epistle of Jude, and of course, the Book of Revelation in the 5th century. Therefore, how dare you enter a Christian Forum like TALK JESUS with this Satanic modus operand? BLASPHEME!

I used the Satanic Metzger books to start a campfire, where he was just ANOTHER paper hanger in translating the Bible from Greek, where I can't count these people that have done the same before and after Metzger, where they all contradict each other in doing so, therefore giving credence to the Codex Sinaiticus, as the TRUE word of Jesus as Yahweh God incarnate, understood?!

I rely upon the Codex Sinaiticus for the New Testament, and the King James Bible for the Old Testament, of which, is the closet to the word of Jesus we have, and not some primitive Bible rewrite that has subtracted books from Jesus' inspired words from the Bible that you use from your pagan church of the East!!!

The rest of your Devil Speak dribble in your lengthy "War and Peace" posts #84, 85, and 86, is nothing but more Satanic Bible rewrites in removing passages, adding to them, marking some passages out with a magic marker, your subjective Satanic opinions from your ungodly Church of the East, where if you actually READ THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN BIBLE in the whole, you have to be a Jew to become a true Christian and not some other ungodly faith, duh!



**************** Furthermore, and relating to your "who told you this MO," you are still in HIDING when I asked you the following: "In closing, and using your way of thinking, who told you that Jesus existed in the first place? Was it your version of the Bible that you have torn apart and have Satanically revised ad infinitum? Or, did Jesus in prayer tell you He existed in the time period within the Bible? Or, did your parents say He existed nonetheless by “faith” only? In other words, what is your ABSOLUTE and irrefutable conclusion that Jesus existed? WAITING! **************



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[BrotherDThomas]

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@Bob Carabbio,

Jesus H. Christ, subsequent to reading your post #96, "whos on first, and whats on second, and I dont know is on third!!! As explicitly shown, you have subjectivly been shopping around in trying to find the correct version of Christianity for many years of your earthly existence, holy cow Batman!

YOUR REVEALING QUOTE IN POST #98: “When the Charismatic OUTPOURING ended, and degenerated into the "Charismatic Movement", there were those who wanted to "Keep it going" (which was impossible - revivals come and go at God's schedule, not ours), and there were those of us who decided to go back into our Institutional churches, which most of us did - Changing them significantly in the process.”

Uh, okay. After your seemingly “Hippy Movement” in being in your Charismatic Christian movement, and then getting back into your chosen division of Christian church, how do you know once again that you are in the correct interpretation of Christianity church? With your track record of going to a “plethora” of different divisions of the faith over time, what made you leave said divisions in the first place, and do you leave it open once again to move yet to another division of the faith? Whew!

Case in point, do you worry that you are not in the correct division of Chrisianity at the time of your death, where Jesus will just say at the Pearly Gates: “Sorry Bob, you chose the wrong denomination of my true words, therefore I will pull the lever to open up the trap door you are standing upon for you to take a one way E-ticket ride to the depths of the sulfur lakes of Hell!”

This situation above has always worried me, therefore like I stated to the ungodly pseudo-christian named Rhema, I read the New Testament from the Codex Sinaiticus, and the Old Testament from the King James Version, that are subjectively both closer to the word of Jesus than any other document on record! When Jesus states that only a few will find heaven, He was surely correct! “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." (Matthew 7:13-14)

In essense, what Jesus said ONCE, He could not mean for it to be taken in many different and contradicting ways. If I were you, and since we go to heaven or hell in bodily form (Philippians 3:21), therefore, if you are not going to read from my aforementioned Bibles, then if I were you, I would continually wear an asbestos suit for your safety and just to be sure.

Bob, hopefully we'll meet in our glorious 1400 square mile heaven with its 216 foot high walls, that hopefully will keep out the Satanic JW's and Mormons, and have a rewarding drink to toast our times while upon earth, praise!


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[Bob Carabbio]

.
Case in point, do you worry that you are not in the correct division of Chrisianity at the time of your death,

Absolutely not!!! The "division of Christianity" (speaking of the "visible church organizations" that I've been part of over the years) don't mean SPIT one way or another. And I'm not "Seeking" anything. I'm going where the Lord Leads, for the purpose of giving ministry to whatever group He sticks me in for whatever purpose. The Assemblies of God is a nice place to settle, and I've been part of it for most of the last 58 years. They'll probably do my funeral. They're as good as any.

They're not the "Church" - I AM THE CHURCH as a Born again Christian, along with all other Born again Christians in the world.

I'm Born Again BY FAITH in the Sin Offering of Jesus on Calvary, my sins aren't "Covered" - THEY'RE GONE (book of Hebrews)(eph 2:8,9)

This situation above has always worried me,

Why??? If you're Born Again of the Holy Spirit in FAITH (Heb 11:1), and moving in fellowship with the Lord, then Heaven is already YOURS, and this "body of flesh" isn't going anywhere. It'll be discarded in favor of the incorruptible body that'll be ours when it's time.



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[/QUOTE]

 

[Curtis]

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation, for the prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." (2 Peter 1:20-21)

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


The Old Testament prophets did not fully understand what they were prophesying about. (No private interpretation) but they really wanted to, so they searched diligently for its meaning.

1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

The Gospel is a "mystery" which God hid within himself. No one can logicaly analitcly discover what this mystery is or understand it unless God reveals it to the one who is seeking it with all of their heart.

1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Every human being has a "natural man" which is made up of all his flesh, blood, and bone that includes man's physical brain in his head. This natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolish to him neither can he know them because are only "spiritually" understood.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.