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Did Satan bring One or Two gangs of fallen angels from heaven?

You want me to do your homework for you?
It was either that reply or "You want me to tell you so you can tear them apart?"
It was your claim. So support YOUR claim. It isn't my homework.

I'm saddened to see you use such a pedestrian scheme to weasel out of the fact that YOU DON'T HAVE these "enough references" (or don't know them), and cannot prove your assertion. It's a crap move, Nick, and you know it. So just be honest and say you never had any "enough references" and just posted that to save face. It's just one more drop that adds to my PM.

When it was written.
No. When it was said.

And Jesus said this long before Paul ever wrote anything.

The Emperor was pressing his own buttons and will be responsible for his own decisions. There is no Satan behind the puppets pulling the strings. That would make Jesus into a liar. Is your Jesus a liar?

One would hope not,
Rhema


What hope is there if even you don't believe Mat. 28:18 ?
(And you attack me for my other beliefs?)
 
It was your claim. So support YOUR claim. It isn't my homework.

I'm saddened to see you use such a pedestrian scheme to weasel out of the fact that YOU DON'T HAVE these "enough references" (or don't know them), and cannot prove your assertion. It's a crap move, Nick, and you know it. So just be honest and say you never had any "enough references" and just posted that to save face. It's just one more drop that adds to my PM.
They were both questions, and nothing that you wrote above answers them, and for the sake of humor, I'm not the one who is weaseling out of the homework assignment. :)

Anyway, with your reply above, you just confirmed that my 2nd question would have been as valid to use as the 1st one was.

No. When it was said.

And Jesus said this long before Paul ever wrote anything.

The Emperor was pressing his own buttons and will be responsible for his own decisions. There is no Satan behind the puppets pulling the strings. That would make Jesus into a liar. Is your Jesus a liar?

One would hope not,
I guess you are saying that they both can't be true, though said at different times by different individuals. Don't quote me on that... lol

My Jesus is not a liar, but I'm pretty sure you are, if even a repentant one and if my Jesus is not your Jesus then we are not brothers, brother.

Also, if you don't believe that Satan can influence the world/individuals then I'll be praying for your coverage/protection from it. Though I'm sure you believe you don't need it for that even though there are enough examples that God has allowed that to happen which I'm sure you know is true. Oh, and I'm not doing your homework for you with this either.

What hope is there if even you don't believe Mat. 28:18 ?
(And you attack me for my other beliefs?)
Yep, and I believe in 2 Corinthians 12:7 too, don't you?
(Attack or Protect?)

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
P.S.
 
Block Rhema off as a waste of time as bad as Tedious Dylan.
Dear Sister,
That would be a no.
We all have our moments, whereby we try others.
Although I have blocked certain members on occasion, it is typically only for a brief period to prevent further conflict from arising.

Though I do thank-you for your input.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><
 
They were both questions,
Sorry, those were statements made in the form of a question. I would be surprised that any reader would have taken these be legitimate straightforward questions.

In addition, it's a rather well accepted premise that someone who makes a claim should support their own claim. So at best, it would be a red herring to use the phrase "your homework" (to mean me) when I had merely requested you back up your own statement - to wit:
there (are) enough references to be able to equate this with Satan as well
Which ones?
But maybe you were having a bad day, and just hadn't followed the flow of the conversation. So I'll ask again, what references might there be to equate Satan as "the god of this world" after Jesus said Mat. 28:18?

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​
(Matthew 28:18 KJV)

... because a god has power and authority over an actual domain.

Satan? The devil?

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.​
(John 8:44 KJV)

And one of his greatest lies is perpetrated by the Church - that he is the "god of this world."

We had been speaking of context in another thread, and this passage shows the importance of such context. To the reader of Paul, who would have been "the god of this world"? Perhaps my mistake was to omit the sources for my claim that every reader would have known this to be a cunningly veiled reference to the Roman Emperor. So... I'll spend the time necessary to support my claim.

"Ultimately the Romans did advance one cult, which took on some of the characteristics of a universal religion and became a political tool in the interest of stability - a symbol of loyally to the state and its rulers. This was, of course, the imperial cult, the worship of the emperor-as-god.​

Augustus was officially deified at his death; this became the standard practice; there were only occasional exceptions, as when Caligula and Domitian in the first century, and Commodus in the second demanded recognition as deity in their lifetimes. The provincial councils made up of upper-class men, gave much attention to the imperial cult; as also did the Augustales, priestly college of freedmen; other priestly colleges included rites to the emperors in their regular observances; and the army made much of it, as in oaths and obervance of birth dates. The imperial cult thus touched the lives of many persons in all the social strata. As in the case of other state cults, the proper observance of its ceremonies became a symbol patriotism, as well as piety."​
- (pgs. 270,271)​

Indeed, the god of this world (the Roman Emperor) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, and the cult of emperor-as-god was ubiquitous in the Roman world by the time of Paul. Augustus reigned as the first Roman emperor from 27 BC until his death in AD 14. The reign of Augustus initiated an imperial cult (Wiki-LINK). Caligula, was Roman emperor from AD 37 until his assassination in AD 41. Domitian was Roman emperor from 81 to 96. The Apostle Paul having a ministry from circa 31–36 AD until his death somewhere between 64 & 68 AD.

Anyway, with your reply above, you just confirmed that my 2nd question would have been as valid to use as the 1st one was.
"You want me to tell you so you can tear them apart?"
No.

I wanted you to actually provide support for your claim. (That's how discussions work.)

Rhema
 
They were both questions,
Sorry, those were statements made in the form of a question. I would be surprised that any reader would have taken these be legitimate straightforward questions.
Now you know they were questions. Whether you realized it or not, you answered them anyway. However, based on your words, that was not your intent, as you did not recognize them as such.

there (are) enough references to be able to equate this with Satan as well
Which ones?
But maybe you were having a bad day, and just hadn't followed the flow of the conversation. So I'll ask again, what references might there be to equate Satan as "the god of this world" after Jesus said Mat. 28:18?
Don't assume or you know what happens in my day. :) I'm actually having and had a few joyful days in the Lord! Today, is a bit more of a challenge. :( Maybe, you just need to change your perspective and ask the question where it reflects that Satan or someone other than God is the ruler of the world without introducing outside perspectives to it. (See below on Matt 28:18)

I'll not go down the rabbit hole you want to go down. I've told you many times I'm a simple man. You're the one who wants the layers upon layers, that accomplishes what you want (truth questionable here) and only frustrates the opposition to giving up. Best battle is the one you don't get into.

If you are satisfied that Satan has never in anyway had control or enough of an influence to dictate what happens in the world; then so be it. Be happy with your conclusion, but it doesn't change mine in the least. Now no name calling (from perspective not yours), or it will not happen on this thread again. lol

claim that every reader
Apparently not. :)
So, if you are wrong in that what else could you be wrong in? hummmmmm (just asking myself that's all) lol

Anyway, with your reply above, you just confirmed that my 2nd question would have been as valid to use as the 1st one was.
"You want me to tell you so you can tear them apart?"
Yes to the first quote.
Amazing that you don't even realize that is what you do (2nd quote above).

Then again like a child (no insult here, Matt 18:2-5) likes to take things apart, out of curiosity, with no intent/thought of putting it back together, because as you leave it is sufficient unto itself. So, you do the with word association. You might not see the correlation here with this story, but I do for knowing you in part. :) I was once with a French Diplomat who I believe really was a spy in the Middle East. She told me that to truly understand the Arabic writing you had to know a bit about the author in order to understand any nuances included in their writings. I always found that an interesting observation, because I believe it takes the Holy Spirit to open ones understanding to His Word.

On Matthew 28:18. You need to dig deeper. Maybe, along the lines of freewill. Only a suggestion on the last, because there are other ways of seeing this, which I do. Of course doing so gives other references on this subject a meaning that might not be seen if only viewed through this as a standalone verse. Job, is a good one, because if you think about it, a little differently, and Job would be dead, and what kind of learning experience would that have been then.... clearly a much different one then what we get from it now. :)

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
We as humans are the uppermost of God's Creation in Adam. We could choose. And we see that Adam and Lucifer is the same person. Both were created Good. Both got the choice to be a Child of God and really grow up by the Tree of Life in the Life of the Real God to enjoy it. Or choose the tree of knowledge by which they can become the "opposite god" or "anti Christ" which is anti Word. And we know that Adam and Eve wanted to be "God" too. And they got it. Thus one third of the angels which God created for the purpose of Adam life entered their "job" in assisting Adam to be Adam. Thus Adam has for his live good and bad angels. Good angels which guides him in doing good things and bad angels for him to do bad things. They were all created by God for Adam's existence.

Isaiah 45: 4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel my chosen, I have called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. 5 I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird thee, though thou hast not known me; 6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

When we want to do evil God gives us our desires. That is why Wisdom starts at the "Fear of the Lord". Because God gives us what we desire. And desiring evil will be given to you. To suffer by it. Like Cain who wanted to kill Abel and God warned him not to do it. And Abel entered the Glorious afterlife with God He loved and whom He wanted to be with. And Cain became "cursed". And lived in it and the consequences of what he did. And king Saul who wanted to kill David in the jealousy spirit. Who died later by that spirit of murder. In murdering himself.

1 Samuel 16:
14 ¶But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.*n8
15 And Saul’s servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.


Adam experiences good angels in having also joy when he has his "parties" and enjoying Mammon. He also have peace when he rests during his holidays at the seashore. He also loves his kids and his wife in an angel which is not the Holy Spirit of God. And then he also have some other bad ones like worry and lusting and thieving and war and murder and rape etc.

Hebrews 1:
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
 
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