1 Corinthians 6:9-10

[Chad]

The important thing is the faith, the sincerity of the repentance, the confession of sin to God, and the striving for sinless perfection.

Truth.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

However, with the way the church is going, more and more people are going to believe that homosexuality and gay marriage is ok.

This fulfills prophecy too, not that it's an excuse for evil doers.

Matthew 24:9-14
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

This leads us to a question: is there any chance that God will welcome such people into His kingdom? When this scripture clearly says that the homosexual will not enter?

Impossible. God cannot lie nor contradict His own Word. The Word is clear and there are two paths. Repentance or rebellion.

 

[RJ]

. Some take this as an absolute blanket statement that every single person who believes, without any exceptions what so ever, will be saved. But Jesus Himself says "Not all who say to me 'Lord, Lord!" will enter the kingdom of Heaven". So we see right away that not everyone who believes that Jesus is Lord will be saved

This is an open forum, so I have a comment here.
No offense but,I think this is a classic misinterpretation. These two verses help to explain:

• Revelation 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

1. Hot.....true believer ( preferred)
   
2. Cold.... ( not as great as Hot, but still preferred because you still have a new chance)
3. Lukewarm...... ( the least preferred because you say your a Christian but your not. In the end, if nothing changes Jesus will reject you!)

• Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

1. Lord, Lord are those who claim to believe but have not gone all the way and received Christ!
2. The same as Luke Warm.

For Christ to" spew you out of his mouth" is final judgement and rejection because you were not a believer!
There is no such thing as someone believing and not being saved!

 

[Travis]

Most modern day Protestant's reconcile these verses by saying that there is a type of "faith" which is not really FAITH, but is a dead faith, and good for nothing. I understand this point of view and it seems the easiest way to reconcile the verses. But i think it is a bit dangerous to preach the message this way, because if we insist that it is by faith and faith alone, then there will be many people who are not saved, yet because they 'know for sure' that they do in fact believe, they will go on being deceived and wind up in hell.

I think seeing things this way went back much further than modern day protestants. At least 2000 years. The parable of the talents makes it pretty clear:

[Mat 13:18-23 ESV] 18 "Hear then the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path. 20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty."

3 of the 4 examples would be considered as believers for at least a portion of their life. That's pretty undebateable. Did all three truly have the faith that comes from God?

Many people believed in Jesus while he was on earth, doing miracles. Honestly it would have been hard not to to a certain extent. The Pharisees hearts were incredibly hard to not believe the things he did were from God. The bible, in many places, uses the word for believe to refer to someone who just gives mental ascent to the Truth, but is not necessarily changed in heart. Simon the sorcerer gave up his witchcraft and began to follow after Phillip, in Samaria, when Phillip had first come there. As far as Phillip, who was full of the Holy Ghost, or anyone else was concerned, Simon was a believer. What reason would they have to doubt this? In due time, Simon revealed himself to be a false convert by his words. It was obvious then, and Peter called him on it, and declared before everyone in no uncertain terms that Simon was unconverted. Simon's response to Peter further proves it, because he doesn't appeal to God directly, but asks Peter to pray to God for him. To be born again means to know God, personally, as your Father. God was not Simon's Father, this was obvious. But, at a given point in time it would be accurate to say that Simon was a believer. But, he was not born again, and there is no evidence he had any real faith.

Not everyone who believes, in that sense of the word, will go to heaven, this is perfectly clear, and I know you and I both agree on that, so we definitely don't need to beat that horse to death. But, what I want to discuss, and it seems you are familiar with the idea, is whether or not there is a faith that comes from God, specifically, as a gift, that is more than just giving mental ascent to something. More than just appearing to believe and follow after Christ. Not just some general faith that one can take up for a while and then flippantly cast away, but a deep and abiding faith, a real belief that Jesus is my Lord and my Savior, and that he truly loves me. A belief that comes from the heart of hearts, that is unshakeable.

What is faith? Is it common, just everyday type of thing? Or is it a miraculous and supernatural thing that only God can bring about?

I enjoy discussing this with you Taylor, I think we agree more than we disagree. I just don't want to glaze over a point I think is important without giving it adequate attention.

No one who is sexually immoral, nor an idolater, nor an adulterer, or a homosexual will enter into the Kingdom of God. Period:

[1Co 6:8-11 ESV]
8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud--even your own brothers! 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​

If you find your life defined by any one of these lifestyles (adulterer, idolater, etc) you would be right to question whether you are truly born again or not. If it doesn't even bother you, and you don't want to leave that lifestyle, then no, you are not born again. Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Curtis]

The Kingdom of God is simply a place where a King has rule over. Within the Kingdom of God there is a city. It is called Mt Zion the city of the living God, the Heavenly Jerusalem!
This is where every born again Christian is brought to, after being translated into it!

Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,
Heb 12:23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Lets examine this step by step. Jesus says that whoever believes in Him will not perish. Some take this as an absolute blanket statement that every single person who believes, without any exceptions what so ever, will be saved. But Jesus Himself says "Not all who say to me 'Lord, Lord!" will enter the kingdom of Heaven". So we see right away that not everyone who believes that Jesus is Lord will be saved. There are other requirements: Repentance, for Jesus says "Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish". Love, for Jesus says that the first and greatest commandment is to love God with all your being. Obedience, for Jesus says that if we love Him we will obey His commands. And all these things explicitly require trust, for is we love, obey, repent, and believe, we will most certainly have to trust. Is there an element of knowledge that is required as well? Why, yes there is, because God says "My people perish for a lack of knowledge. So, as we see, faith without works is dead. And anyone who claims to know God but yet walks in darkness lies and the truth is not in them. Of course, there is a baby period for all new Christians, where the recently born-again individual is guided through repentance, learning to love God, trust God, and obey God. But without these steps, we can be certain that the person in question is not saved at all. Now, your right, its not for us to judge who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. But God has already revealed to us in His word what the requirements are for each, and we can say with confidence what one must possess (faith, repentance, love, trust, obedience) in order to be saved. The false-grace, hyper-grace, easy believism gospel is not the one found in scripture, except for isolated verses taken out of context and twisted to delight the hearts of sinful men.

Brother you are putting scriptures together that do not go together in this fashion.
John 3:16.....Romans 10:13 clearly states that any one who believes in Jesus and calls on the name of the Lord WILL BE SAVED.
That right there settles it. There are NO MORE stipulations needed to be saved.

This might help you understand Matthew 7:23 a little better. I will use the NLT for this.
23... But I will reply, I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were UNAUTHORIZED.
This is what I have been saying. Many people claim to be His but never excepted Him as their personal lord and Savior. This means No Blood to cover them. This is why Jesus says He never knew them.

Hosea 4:6 My people perish from lack of KNOWLEDGE............THIS is speaking about how His people perish or suffer or live in LACK and are not seeing prayers answered or another words not prospering in the Kingdom of God as we should be....BECAUSE they DO NOT KNOW OR UNDERSTAND HIS WORD. These people have no real clue to who they are in Christ or the authority they have in Christ.

Beyond this Brother you are lumping a whole lot of scriptures into a point you believe to be true and it is not working.
Faith with out works is dead.......Yes this is true.....what are these works brother ? Works equals ACTION brother. You must always follow up faith with an action.....sowing seed is one....the words you speak is one.....what you do is one and so forth. Love and forgiveness is a huge part of faith and with out them your faith is little. There are works which involve good deeds as well such as following up and giving food or meeting a need etc. HOWEVER none of this has anything to do with one being saved.

What is the fathers will? Well Brother we can spend a long time talking about these for will can also mean command and so forth BUT the Fathers will in question is really BELIEVING IN THE ONE HE SENT OR BELIEVING IN JESUS OR HIS NAME.
You need to include the scruiptures around asny single scripture you pull out to use so in deed you are useing them correctly.

Have a great night my friend
Jim

 

[Curtis]

"

This leads us to a question: is there any chance that God will welcome such people into His kingdom? When this scripture clearly says that the homosexual will not enter?

What are your thoughts.

There is a huge difference between a Christian struggling against sin, and those who know it is wrong, but continue in sin, even fact they even welcome it.
Struggling against homosexuality for a person is not the same as one loving it. The answer is "no" unless they repent.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

There is a huge difference between a Christian struggling against sin, and those who know it is wrong, but continue in sin, even fact they even welcome it.
Struggling against homosexuality for a person is not the same as one loving it. The answer is "no" unless they repent.

Here is one for you............how in this day and age will any person living a life style that does not fit in a Christian life style ever get saved ? It's time the church stops condemning people and fighting against their Christian rights and start doing what the written word of God says to do. LOVE THEM.........PRAY FOR THEM.....TREAT THEM LIKE CREATIONS OF GOD...
Christians are the only ones holding anything against these people in this day and age. God loves them and Jesus died for them and has intrusted us His children in which He has given us everything we will ever need through His word to be HIS VOICE AND HANDS.

Wonder how Jesus and the Father feels when He see's us fighting against rights of christians and claiming this crap or that crap as God and all the time He is loving them and praying that we will love them and forgive them and pray very much for them and get them saved too....Sad sometimes thinking we are what He has to use.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

This is an open forum, so I have a comment here.
No offense but,I think this is a classic misinterpretation. These two verses help to explain:

• Revelation 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

1. Hot.....true believer ( preferred)
   
2. Cold.... ( not as great as Hot, but still preferred because you still have a new chance)
3. Lukewarm...... ( the least preferred because you say your a Christian but your not. In the end, if nothing changes Jesus will reject you!)

• Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

1. Lord, Lord are those who claim to believe but have not gone all the way and received Christ!
2. The same as Luke Warm.

For Christ to" spew you out of his mouth" is final judgement and rejection because you were not a believer!
There is no such thing as someone believing and not being saved!

Faith without works is dead. Yes, FAITH, without works is dead. There are those who believe, who call Jesus Lord, but who have no repentance and no works and are dead. There are those who believe and yet are not saved. Faith without works is dead. The lukewarm are those in the church, Jesus is speaking to the churches in Revelation, the lukewarm ar those in the church (those in the church are believers, if they are not believers then they are not in the church), those who are lukewarm are those who believe yet do not love, do not repent, do not obey. Those are the lukewarm with a faith without works who call Jesus Lord, who believe that Jesus is Lord, who know that Jesus is Lord, and yet they do not love Him enough to repent of their sins. They believe, yet love their sin more than they love God and do no repent but have dead faith which leaves them unsaved.

 

[Curtis]

Faith without works is dead. Yes, FAITH, without works is dead. There are those who believe, who call Jesus Lord, but who have no repentance and no works and are dead. There are those who believe and yet are not saved. Faith without works is dead. The lukewarm are those in the church, Jesus is speaking to the churches in Revelation, the lukewarm ar those in the church (those in the church are believers, if they are not believers then they are not in the church), those who are lukewarm are those who believe yet do not love, do not repent, do not obey. Those are the lukewarm with a faith without works who call Jesus Lord, who believe that Jesus is Lord, who know that Jesus is Lord, and yet they do not love Him enough to repent of their sins. They believe, yet love their sin more than they love God and do no repent but have dead faith which leaves them unsaved.

If we truly understood the parable of the sower we find of the four different soils where the Word of God is sown, only one produced fruit unto salvation. These four different soils are the four different kinds of people we see in the Church today. Do the math, 1 out of 4 is a true Christian, and all the others are not.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

But, what I want to discuss, and it seems you are familiar with the idea, is whether or not there is a faith that comes from God, specifically, as a gift, that is more than just giving mental ascent to something. More than just appearing to believe and follow after Christ. Not just some general faith that one can take up for a while and then flippantly cast away, but a deep and abiding faith, a real belief that Jesus is my Lord and my Savior, and that he truly loves me. A belief that comes from the heart of hearts, that is unshakeable.

What is faith? Is it common, just everyday type of thing? Or is it a miraculous and supernatural thing that only God can bring about?

yes I think it is true and biblical to say that faith is a gift from God. but i also think that it is true and biblical to say that God can take away gifts that you despise and do not consider worth treasuring. if God gives someone faith, shines His light on them, but even amidst all His beautiful and wonderous glory, they refuse to love Him; but rather choose to love the darkness instead of the light, then God will take that gift away.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

If we truly understood the parable of the sower we find of the four different soils where the Word of God is sown, only one produced fruit unto salvation. These four different soils are the four different kinds of people we see in the Church today. Do the math, 1 out of 4 is a true Christian, and all the others are not.

You sure you want to go with that theory ? Mark 4 and parable of the sower is the base understanding for it all.
What is your 3 not a true christian truly mean ?

 

[Curtis]

You sure you want to go with that theory ? Mark 4 and parable of the sower is the base understanding for it all.
What is your 3 not a true christian truly mean ?

The very first fruit that a person produces as a result of the Word of God (seed) being planted in them is the new birth. Without that first fruit there is no salvation.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Brother you are putting scriptures together that do not go together in this fashion.
John 3:16.....Romans 10:13 clearly states that any one who believes in Jesus and calls on the name of the Lord WILL BE SAVED.
That right there settles it. There are NO MORE stipulations needed to be saved.

If I say that cats have tails, I would be telling the truth. Cats do have tails. It would even be true to say that all cats have tails. because i am making a general statement that applies 99.9% of the time. but we both know that there are some rare exceptions of cats that do not have tails.

the same would be true for those people who truly believe, yet are not saved. yes, whoever believes in Jesus will be saved. but is that not a blanket statement that is true 99.9% of the time?

let me give you two examples: Satan, and Satanists. First, lets look at Satan. We know that he knows the facts. Satan sincerely and truly believes that Jesus died on the cross and is resurrected seated in Heaven. Yet Satan is not saved. But you may say, well taylor, Satan is an angel, and so the rules dont apply to him. Ok, thats fair, but lets take a look at Satanists. These are human beings who, for the most part, know and accept all the facts of the bible, but yet they choose to worship Satan. These Satanists, at least some of them, truly and sincerely believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was resurrected after being crucified and that He is seated in Heaven. But these people are not saved, are they? No they are not. And why is that? What is the greatest command? To love God with all your heart. You see, if our faith in Jesus is not accompanied by love for Jesus, then we will not be saved. And if we love Jesus, then we will obey Jesus' commands. So we see that salvation does not depend on faith alone, but on grace alone, working through a faith that is built on love and obedience (repentance).

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

The very first fruit that a person produces as a result of the Word of God (seed) being planted in them is the new birth. Without that first fruit there is no salvation.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Ok I will give you that, but this still does not factor in parable of the sower or am I missing your point ?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

If I say that cats have tails, I would be telling the truth. Cats do have tails. It would even be true to say that all cats have tails. because i am making a general statement that applies 99.9% of the time. but we both know that there are some rare exceptions of cats that do not have tails.

the same would be true for those people who truly believe, yet are not saved. yes, whoever believes in Jesus will be saved. but is that not a blanket statement that is true 99.9% of the time?

let me give you two examples: Satan, and Satanists. First, lets look at Satan. We know that he knows the facts. Satan sincerely and truly believes that Jesus died on the cross and is resurrected seated in Heaven. Yet Satan is not saved. But you may say, well taylor, Satan is an angel, and so the rules dont apply to him. Ok, thats fair, but lets take a look at Satanists. These are human beings who, for the most part, know and accept all the facts of the bible, but yet they choose to worship Satan. These Satanists, at least some of them, truly and sincerely believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was resurrected after being crucified and that He is seated in Heaven. But these people are not saved, are they? No they are not. And why is that? What is the greatest command? To love God with all your heart. You see, if our faith in Jesus is not accompanied by love for Jesus, then we will not be saved. And if we love Jesus, then we will obey Jesus' commands. Sowe see that salvation does not depend on faith alone, but on grace alone, working through a faith that is built on love and obedience (repentance).

Thank You for you reply Brother,
Now then here is the big problem between us in this thread. You are placing believing that jesus is the son of God which the demons do BUT THISIS NOT THE SAME AS John 3:16 and Romans 10:13 belieivng............

you said.......we see that salvation does not depend on faith alone, but on grace alone, working through a faith that is built on love and obedience (repentance).
Salvation is a free gift from God by His Loving Grace..........repentance ONLY MEANS TO TURN IN ANOTHER DIRECTION. ( His Direction) as a person works out or walks out their salvation they devolpe their love and faith and obedience but this does not reflect if they are saved or not.

 

[Curtis]

Ok I will give you that, but this still does not factor in parable of the sower or am I missing your point ?

If you go back and read the parable of the sower, you will find only one person brought forth fruit. All the other soils type received the Word but because of different things it stopped the growth of the seed from producing its fruit. It is in a Church setting that people receive the Word (seed). When we read the scriptures you can identify these four types of people in the Church. Jesus knew there were many in the Church's that were no real Christians, and so he encouraged them to do what was right, especially in writhing to the seven Church's in Revelations. If we don't know this when reading the new testament we will think a Christian can loose their salvation by the things written to the Church's.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

If you go back and read the parable of the sower, you will find only one person brought forth fruit. All the other soils type received the Word but because of different things it stopped the growth of the seed from producing its fruit. It is in a Church setting that people receive the Word (seed). When we read the scriptures you can identify these four types of people in the Church. Jesus knew there were many in the Church's that were no real Christians, and so he encouraged them to do what was right, especially in writhing to the seven Church's in Revelations. If we don't know this when reading the new testament we will think a Christian can loose their salvation by the things written to the Church's.

I know the parable and yet I have not ever seen where Jesus says these are not real Christians....It teaches us the 5 main ways satan comes at you plus 2 ways we defeat our selves or self induced in way side. The entire Kingdom of God operates out of seed time and harvest. We also learn in this parable how to make sure this seed takes root then grow up and produces fruit.

I just do not see where you can connect this with becoming saved or not saved. I know we are born again by the incorruptible seed the ever living word of God. Now if you are saying that the types of soil are the heart of unsaved people then thats no news. Thats why they are not saved yet for they have yet been drawn.

Now then if you look at it as why Christians have problems and do not grow or see the word producing harvest in their life then yea there are your soils and satans 5 ways at coming at you. But to say the soils other then good ground are not true christians is strange. Either you are or you are not born again. Those soils do not represent those who claim to be christians but never excepted Christ into their heart such as Matthew 7:23 is talking about.

 

[Travis]

yes I think it is true and biblical to say that faith is a gift from God. but i also think that it is true and biblical to say that God can take away gifts that you despise and do not consider worth treasuring. if God gives someone faith, shines His light on them, but even amidst all His beautiful and wonderous glory, they refuse to love Him; but rather choose to love the darkness instead of the light, then God will take that gift away.

What a horrible gift to give someone, to give them such a knowledge of the truth, but to not give them the new birth, to not give them a new heart, a heart of flesh and to not renew their mind so that they could do anything with this knowledge of the truth. That would be like giving a pig a brand new pig suit….

What do you think the chances of him keeping it clean are? If the Lord want's to do that to a person… well that's his prerogative, I don't normally make a habit of questioning what God does…. but man, I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. And it kind of seems to me to make God out to be kind of monstrous to suggest that he would do that to someone, but perhaps there is a time and a place for that too. Judas may be such an example, idk.

This I know is true, if God gives a man something, and he does what the following guy does, he will most certainly have it taken away:

Matthew 25
14 "For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, 'Master, you delivered to me five talents; here I have made five talents more.' 21 His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.' 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, 'Master, you delivered to me two talents; here I have made two talents more.' 23 His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.' 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.' 26 But his master answered him, 'You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'​

I don't think that the third servant had any amount of faith. He may have had some surface knowledge about who his master was, in a certain sense. But I wouldn't say he had any amount of faith, based on how I define faith anyway.

It seems like you have already decided in your heart what you believe to be true, and are not really interested in changing that. So, I won't argue the point with you further.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Curtis]

I know the parable and yet I have not ever seen where Jesus says these are not real Christians....It teaches us the 5 main ways satan comes at you plus 2 ways we defeat our selves or self induced in way side. The entire Kingdom of God operates out of seed time and harvest. We also learn in this parable how to make sure this seed takes root then grow up and produces fruit.

I just do not see where you can connect this with becoming saved or not saved. I know we are born again by the incorruptible seed the ever living word of God. Now if you are saying that the types of soil are the heart of unsaved people then thats no news. Thats why they are not saved yet for they have yet been drawn.

Now then if you look at it as why Christians have problems and do not grow or see the word producing harvest in their life then yea there are your soils and satans 5 ways at coming at you. But to say the soils other then good ground are not true christians is strange. Either you are or you are not born again. Those soils do not represent those who claim to be christians but never excepted Christ into their heart such as Matthew 7:23 is talking about.

Jesus said, "you shall know them by their fruits" If they have no fruit, then they do not belong to God. The whole purpose of sowing "seed" into the hearts of people is for fruit to be produced. No fruit no salvation. All born again Christians produce fruit in their lives. The "danger" time for any "seed" is from when it is first planted, until it produces it's fruit. Many things can cause the "seed" from not producing, which is why Jesus tells us what these things are. The cares of this life, the deceitfulness of riches, the lusts of other things, becoming offended, having no root within themselves. these all stop the Word of God from bringing forth fruit. Once the "seed" produces it fruit you can not stop it from produces more, as it is not the person who produces it, but the seed who is God. Once fruit is brought forth as Jesus said, "a good tree can not produce bad fruit"
Jesus tells us that this parable is grand daddy of all parables. If we do not understand this one we will miss understand a lot of the new testament, especially the "epistles" of Paul, and Peter.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

as a person works out or walks out their salvation they devolpe their love and faith and obedience but this does not reflect if they are saved or not.

yes it does. without that process of sanctifcation, no one can enter Heaven. if someone does not develop love, obedience, faith, and repentance, then they are not saved. The Spirit of God lives inside all saints and causes that process to happen no matter what. if the person resists, then The Spirit may wrestle them for a time, but eventually, if they do not submit, they will be given over to their sin and will no longer have a chance at salvation. "for if we keep on sinning wilfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice left". The blasphemy of The Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven.