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1 Corinthians 6:9-10

We just had a very long, Spirited debate about whether or not God will ever take His Spirit away from someone after giving it to them.


Long story short, i think He will.


Take for example this verse from Ephesians ch. 4


Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.



And now, lets read commentary on that verse from Matthew Henry:


"All lying, and corrupt communications, that stir up evil desires and lusts, grieve the Spirit of God. Corrupt passions of bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, evil-speaking, and malice, grieve the Holy Spirit. Provoke not the holy, blessed Spirit of God to withdraw his presence and his gracious influences. The body will be redeemed from the power of the grave at the resurrection day. Wherever that blessed Spirit dwells as a Sanctifier, he is the earnest of all the joys and glories of that redemption day; and we should be undone, should God take away his Holy Spirit from us."

While I like Mathew Henry, I do not put faith in all he says. I always trust in what scripture says, and there you will not go wrong.

John 14:16.. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

You can "grieve" the Holy Spirit because of sin, but he will never leave you or forsake you.
 
God makes a lot of promises to us, He will never leave us nor forsake us, we can have confidence that He will complete the work He started, no one can snatch us from His hand.
I know.
But those are all talking about God's will.
God wills us to be saved, and He wills to keep us for ever.
God wills everyone to be saved. But not everyone is saved.
God wills that we would take hold of His promises and rest in assurances.
But not everyone does.
There are those who, after being enlightened by The Truth, tasted the heavenly gifts of The Spirit, then turn away and go on to sin wilfully, rejecting God and embracing darkness... and for those people, there no longer remains a sacrifice left for sins.
 
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

So this passage explicitly states that certain groups of people will not be saved (they will not enter the kingdom of God). The most common interpretation is that, of course, anyone who repents of these and believes in Jesus will be saved. And, most people would agree, no one is going to achieve a perfect repentance, there is grace that applies to those who struggle and fall into sin. The important thing is the faith, the sincerity of the repentance, the confession of sin to God, and the striving for sinless perfection.

However, with the way the church is going, more and more people are going to believe that homosexuality and gay marriage is ok. There are already churches out there that condone gay marriage and have gay marriage ceremonies in their facilities. There are already people out there who believe in Jesus Christ, who go to church, who pray, who give to charity, who generally live a good life (by human standards) and even have some form of 'repentance' from all other forms of sin other than their homosexuality.

This leads us to a question: is there any chance that God will welcome such people into His kingdom? When this scripture clearly says that the homosexual will not enter?

What are your thoughts.
Hi! 'TaylorDonBarret'
Your quoted the Scripture saying, "Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, .... nor thieves ... will inherit the kingdom of God", (1Cor 6:9-10) is entirely contrary to my personal testimony of discovering Jesus.
When I was without knowledge of God, I was busy being a thief.
Unfortunately, I had become a rather notorious and successful thief prior my hearing the Gospel. At twelve years old, a hometown pastor had declared me "incorrigible". At early 20's, a prosecutor had stood before a criminal court and announced to the presiding judge: "There isn't a building in this city, indeed! in this country", that this man can't get into". By my late 20's, I was firmly categorized as an "habitual criminal".

With that admitted history, it shouldn't surprise anyone that I first became introduced to the Gospel during the commission of a crime.
The fact is: I was conspiring to burglarize a bank at the time. It's rear property was adjacent to a Christian Mission and the developing burglary plan made it necessary that I enter the Mission to obtain an enhanced rear view of the bank which was available through windows of the Mission.

Salt had two purposes in the Middle East of the first century. Because of the lack of refrigeration, salt was used to preserve food, especially meat which would quickly spoil in the desert environment. Believers in Christ are preservatives to the world, preserving it from the evil inherent in the society of ungodly men whose unredeemed natures are corrupted by sin (Psalm 14:3; Romans 8:8).
Second, salt was used then, as now, as a flavor enhancer. In the same way that salt enhances the flavor of the food it seasons, the followers of Christ stand out as those who “enhance” the flavor of life in this world. Christians, living under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and in obedience to Christ, will inevitably influence the world for good, as salt has a positive influence on the flavor of the food it seasons. Where there is strife, we are to be peacemakers; where there is sorrow, we are to be the ministers of Christ, binding up wounds, and where there is hatred, we are to exemplify the love of God in Christ, returning good for evil (Luke 6:35)

In the analogy of light to the world, the good works of Christ’s followers are to shine for all to see. The following verses in Matthew 5 highlight this truth: “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 5:14-16, NASB). The idea here is similar—the presence of light in darkness is something which is unmistakable. The presence of Christians in the world must be like a light in the darkness, not only in the sense that the truth of God’s Word brings light to the darkened hearts of sinful man (John 1:1-10), but also in the sense that our good deeds must be evident for all to see. And indeed, our deeds will be evident if they are performed in accordance with the other principles which Jesus mentions in this passage, such as the Beatitudes in Matthew 5:3-11. Notice especially that the concern is not that Christians would stand out for their own sake, but that those who looked on might “glorify your Father who is in heaven” (v16, KJV).

Strangely enough, throughout my entire life, both homosexual behavior and adultery remained morally nauseating and offensive to me. I recall an occasion prior my repentance when a prostitute, upon learning of my criminal exploits, disparagingly asked, "I jus' don't understand how you can dress up in black clothes and rob banks". To which I spitefully replied, "I don't understand how you can dress up in white and screw the neighborhood". To say the very least, we both had a moral superiority complex.

The above narration all goes towards the following point I wish to make about your above Comment, 'TaylorDonBarret' :
There's minimal value for us Christians to behave and speak as something akin to pious flash-lights. Since we're anointed as lights, there's no compelling need to self-appoint ourselves as flash-lights. Flash-lights accusingly chase the darkness rather than extinguishing it; flash-lights merely expose the darkness rather than triumphing over it.
Sad to say, my early Christian years had me constantly bumping into such self-appointed pious flash-lights at nearly every turn. For instance: shortly after hearing the Gospel, I decided to visit a local church as a blushing but exceedingly grateful new child of the kingdom. A man, (an Elder of the church), graciously met me at the church door and happily extended his hand to welcome me. However, a few seconds later he muttered something and turned on his heel and orphaned me. I was later told that this Elder was tolerant of jus' 'bout anything but cigarette smokers. (Evidently, he had self-appointed himself as a flash-light in the congregation).
Another instance: I was a miserable failure at handling money and managing a working man's budget during the early years of my Christian walk. Lacking sufficient monies to eat and transit until my employment paycheck arrived, I visited a dear aged Christian lady who had courageously befriend me months earlier and gave her some lying story about needing money to buy work clothing and boots. She dug into her cupboard savings jar and handing me $10 more than what I had asked. A few years later, this sweet lady said to me: "Remember that day you came to borrow some money to buy some work clothing? Well, I knew you were lying to me; but I figured that if you needed to lie to me, you must have needed it very desperately and so I happily gave it". I especially hugged her warmly that day.

Ummm, (speaking for myself), I'm not so much anxious about whether God might welcome some sinful individual into His kingdom. Rather, my primary concern is that I be found eagerly welcoming the sinful into the restorative rays of our Gospel light.
No matter how offensive and repugnant a person's behavior may be to us personally, the Bible doesn't demand that such sinners be refused entry through our church doors. Nevertheless, the Bible does explicitly state the qualifications for holding position of authority in our churches; example: "An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. Since an overseer manages God's household, he must be blameless--not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined" (Also read: Romans 12:13, 1 Timothy 3:8, 1 Timothy 3:11-12, 1 Timothy 5:9-10, 1 Timothy 5:22, 2 Timothy 2:24, Titus 2:2, Hebrews 13:2, 1 Peter 4:9.
 
God makes a lot of promises to us, He will never leave us nor forsake us, we can have confidence that He will complete the work He started, no one can snatch us from His hand.
I know.
But those are all talking about God's will.
God wills us to be saved, and He wills to keep us for ever.
God wills everyone to be saved. But not everyone is saved.
God wills that we would take hold of His promises and rest in assurances.
But not everyone does.
There are those who, after being enlightened by The Truth, tasted the heavenly gifts of The Spirit, then turn away and go on to sin wilfully, rejecting God and embracing darkness... and for those people, there no longer remains a sacrifice left for sins.

Brother a Christian can not continue in sin willfully because that is totally against his new nature which is Jesus Christ.

1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

The only person who can continue in sin willfully is a person who never was a child of God. Every time a group of people gather together to hear the Word of God, the Holy Spirit falls upon all those who are there. God is no respecter of persons, so all are being made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and all are tasting of the powers of the world to come. These people are experiencing the Holy Spirit and all his power, and if that is not enough to convince them, there is nothing else that can be given them to prove God is real. These people can never be brought to repentance as they have experienced all that God has.
 
Have you taken office supplies because they have so many and every one does ? It is a sin
Have you yelled or held a grudge ? it is a sin
Sin is anything opposed to the will of God or His word which is His will. Until some one has truly rtenewed their mind and has learned to walk in the spirit can keep on sinning willfully.
Thank God for Grace
 
God makes a lot of promises to us, He will never leave us nor forsake us, we can have confidence that He will complete the work He started, no one can snatch us from His hand.
I know.
But those are all talking about God's will.
God wills us to be saved, and He wills to keep us for ever.
God wills everyone to be saved. But not everyone is saved.
God wills that we would take hold of His promises and rest in assurances.
But not everyone does.
There are those who, after being enlightened by The Truth, tasted the heavenly gifts of The Spirit, then turn away and go on to sin wilfully, rejecting God and embracing darkness... and for those people, there no longer remains a sacrifice left for sins.


So what are you saying that those people who turn away will not be saved or can not ever be saved ?
 
Hi! 'TaylorDonBarret'
Your quoted the Scripture saying, "Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, .... nor thieves ... will inherit the kingdom of God", (1Cor 6:9-10) is entirely contrary to my personal testimony of discovering Jesus.
When I was without knowledge of God, I was busy being a thief.

the scripture is in no way contrary to your testimony. you repented of you sin, you believed in Jesus, and now your born again. key word = repented of sin. without repentance, no one can be saved. thieves, adulterers, unbelievers, murderers... they all can be saved. if they repent and believe in Jesus alone. but people who do such things (people who practice sin) cannot inherit the kingdom of God unless they first repent of those things (repent of sin).

before i became a Christian, i was not only a thief, but i was a gay prostitute, addicted to crystal meth, using steroids, selling drugs, and committing nearly every crime and sin you can imagine. so i know about grace and mercy, and i welcome all sinners to faith in Christ.

Brother a Christian can not continue in sin willfully because that is totally against his new nature which is Jesus Christ.

1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

The only person who can continue in sin willfully is a person who never was a child of God. Every time a group of people gather together to hear the Word of God, the Holy Spirit falls upon all those who are there. God is no respecter of persons, so all are being made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and all are tasting of the powers of the world to come. These people are experiencing the Holy Spirit and all his power, and if that is not enough to convince them, there is nothing else that can be given them to prove God is real. These people can never be brought to repentance as they have experienced all that God has.

i think you are very entrenched in your 'once saved, always saved' theology, and you start your entire biblical interpretation from a point of view which excludes any and all scriptures which contradict your preconceptions regarding 'once saved, always saved'.

the perseverance of the saints is not something guaranteed by God, but something required of believers.

"Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you." Romans 11:19-21

"So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!" 1 Corinthians 10:12

"Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away." Luke 8:13


So what are you saying that those people who turn away will not be saved or can not ever be saved ?
my opinion, based on my understanding of scripture, is that the condition of our faith at the moment of our death is what determines our eternal fate. If we die with The Holy Spirit living inside of us, then we will be saved. If we die without The Holy Spirit living inside of us, then we would be damned to eternal hell. i think forgiveness and repentance is available to prodigal sons, no matter how many times they fall away, just so long as they are still alive, and so long as they have not committed blasphemy of The Holy Spirit (whatever that means).
 
the scripture is in no way contrary to your testimony. you repented of you sin, you believed in Jesus, and now your born again. key word = repented of sin. without repentance, no one can be saved. thieves, adulterers, unbelievers, murderers... they all can be saved. if they repent and believe in Jesus alone. but people who do such things (people who practice sin) cannot inherit the kingdom of God unless they first repent of those things (repent of sin).

before i became a Christian, i was not only a thief, but i was a gay prostitute, addicted to crystal meth, using steroids, selling drugs, and committing nearly every crime and sin you can imagine. so i know about grace and mercy, and i welcome all sinners to faith in Christ.



i think you are very entrenched in your 'once saved, always saved' theology, and you start your entire biblical interpretation from a point of view which excludes any and all scriptures which contradict your preconceptions regarding 'once saved, always saved'.

the perseverance of the saints is not something guaranteed by God, but something required of believers.

"Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you." Romans 11:19-21

"So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!" 1 Corinthians 10:12

"Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away." Luke 8:13



my opinion, based on my understanding of scripture, is that the condition of our faith at the moment of our death is what determines our eternal fate. If we die with The Holy Spirit living inside of us, then we will be saved. If we die without The Holy Spirit living inside of us, then we would be damned to eternal hell. i think forgiveness and repentance is available to prodigal sons, no matter how many times they fall away, just so long as they are still alive, and so long as they have not committed blasphemy of The Holy Spirit (whatever that means).

There is one sin or thing that will keep you from spending eternity wit God in Heaven...That is to reject the Holy spirit or another words........never get saved or born again or make Jesus lord of your life. That is the only thing that will keep you out of Heaven.

Condition of faith ? like week or strong ? If we have been washed by the blood of Jesus and made Him Lord of our life then He will be there with us whern we stand before God.
Blessings
 
There is one sin or thing that will keep you from spending eternity wit God in Heaven...That is to reject the Holy spirit or another words........never get saved or born again or make Jesus lord of your life. That is the only thing that will keep you out of Heaven.

Condition of faith ? like week or strong ? If we have been washed by the blood of Jesus and made Him Lord of our life then He will be there with us whern we stand before God.
Blessings
No one alive actually knows what the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit is. Some people share your view that it is simply dying without Christ, but there is no factual basis on which to say whether or not that view is correct. Other people think that the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit is when a person knowingly blasphemes the work of The Holy Spirit, and openly declares that The Holy Spirit is the work of the devil. But there is not hard proof of this view either. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle of these two, but i don't know what the truth is. That's why I said that that a person always has a chance to be saved as long as they are still alive and have not committed the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit.

condition of faith... as in, do you have The Spirit of Christ living inside you, or not? thats what i mean by condition of faith.
 
You sure about that one?

Just curious.
ha ha
well
i suppose that it is possible that someone somewhere received a direct revelation from God
but outside of that..
..if our only evidence is the word of God
then i would have to say that no one knows for sure what it is
 
I will opine a little, if no one stops me.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 12
22 Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23 And all the people were amazed, and said, "Can this be the Son of David?" 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons." 25 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26 And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.​

Is not blaspheming the Holy Spirit attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil? One may do this in ignorance, and then, if that's the case, I do not think it is necessarily blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. But, to have enough knowledge and understanding to see that the Holy Spirit has done/is doing something, and to say from the heart that this is evil, or from the devil, is to blaspheme God/Holy Spirit. It is to call darkness light, and light darkness. To call evil good, and good evil. It's backwards. To do this intentionally and with adequate knowledge of the truth is the complete opposite of obedience and faith, it is intentional unbelief and rebellion. It is complete and utter opposition to God. To have a complete knowledge of the truth and to reject that, is sealing your own fate. By it's nature, it is rejecting God depsite having a knowledge of who God is. What does Hebrews say:

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.​

If you have enough knowledge and experience to know who and what something/someone is, and then you reject that person/thing, that is that. If you already have sufficient knowledge and understanding to judge the matter, what more can someone do to change your mind? If you have seen all the evidence (or at least an adequate amount) and then you decide a certain direction based on that, what could possibly make you change your mind except new evidence. And if there is no new evidence, then why would you change your mind? If a person has had adequate exposure to the Holy Spirit, and rejects Him as evil, that's that. They have chosen their fate, they have revealed their true nature. Blaspheming the Holy Ghost implies a knowledge and understanding of who the Holy Ghost is and what he does.

No one who is committing the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is concerned about the fact that they are doing so. If you are afraid you have done it, and that scares you and you want to make yourself right with God, you haven't committed the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

Blessings,

Travis
 
I will opine a little, if no one stops me.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 12
22 Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23 And all the people were amazed, and said, "Can this be the Son of David?" 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons." 25 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26 And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.​

Is not blaspheming the Holy Spirit attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil? One may do this in ignorance, and then, if that's the case, I do not think it is necessarily blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. But, to have enough knowledge and understanding to see that the Holy Spirit has done/is doing something, and to say from the heart that this is evil, or from the devil, is to blaspheme God/Holy Spirit. It is to call darkness light, and light darkness. To call evil good, and good evil. It's backwards. To do this intentionally and with adequate knowledge of the truth is the complete opposite of obedience and faith, it is intentional unbelief and rebellion. It is complete and utter opposition to God. To have a complete knowledge of the truth and to reject that, is sealing your own fate. By it's nature, it is rejecting God depsite having a knowledge of who God is. What does Hebrews say:

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.​

If you have enough knowledge and experience to know who and what something/someone is, and then you reject that person/thing, that is that. If you already have sufficient knowledge and understanding to judge the matter, what more can someone do to change your mind? If you have seen all the evidence (or at least an adequate amount) and then you decide a certain direction based on that, what could possibly make you change your mind except new evidence. And if there is no new evidence, then why would you change your mind? If a person has had adequate exposure to the Holy Spirit, and rejects Him as evil, that's that. They have chosen their fate, they have revealed their true nature. Blaspheming the Holy Ghost implies a knowledge and understanding of who the Holy Ghost is and what he does.

No one who is committing the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is concerned about the fact that they are doing so. If you are afraid you have done it, and that scares you and you want to make yourself right with God, you haven't committed the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

Blessings,

Travis
that is the standard, most traditional, most popular understanding of the subject. and i do not think it's wrong; just so much as we understand that this sin would be something intentional, knowing full well the truth of the light of Jesus, knowing completely who Jesus is, what love He has for the world, and how much He suffered; yet still intentionally, repeatedly, knowingly blaspheming Him and His Holy Spirit and campaigning against His righteous Gospel through an intentional effort to attack God and spread evil. As I understand it, this would not be something that happens in an instance, but would be the result of a long downward spiral, and several repeated warnings from God, and a complete knowing on the sinners part of the grievous, unforgivable nature of their actions.

but i think this could be manifested in several different ways... it could even perhaps be something going on the inside of a person, unknown to the outside world.

but i am not sure.
 
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