A reflection upon Ephesians 1:1-6

[Samson2020]

Man will respond to that draw by accepting or rejecting of his own free will.

Wrong.

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God
and our Savior Jesus Christ.
How did they obtain faith? By the righteousness of God.

Without the electing by the giving of the obtained faith one cannot believe unto salvation.

The righteousness of God.
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness; that He might be just and the justifier of him who believes in Jesus.
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
Rom 3:27-28 Where is boasting then ? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith
without the deeds of the law.

Justification by faith given as a gift through Gods righteousness so that God is the justifier of the one who believes in Jesus.

Phl 1:29 For unto you it is GIVEN, on the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him but to suffer for His sake.

Still avoiding the question???

 

[Charlie24]

Wrong.

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God
and our Savior Jesus Christ.
How did they obtain faith? By the righteousness of God.

Without the electing by the giving of the obtained faith one cannot believe unto salvation.

The righteousness of God.
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness; that He might be just and the justifier of him who believes in Jesus.
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
Rom 3:27-28 Where is boasting then ? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith
without the deeds of the law.

Justification by faith given as a gift through Gods righteousness so that God is the justifier of the one who believes in Jesus.

Phl 1:29 For unto you it is GIVEN, on the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him but to suffer for His sake.

Still avoiding the question???

If you can't see it, you just can't see it. Being "Justified by His Grace" says it all.

What question are you referring to? I think I missed that.

 

[Samson2020]

If you can't see it, you just can't see it. Being "Justified by His Grace" says it all.

What question are you referring to? I think I missed that.

whether or not you do or have done anything listed in Mark 16 concerning a true believer.
I asked for your testimony.

 

[Charlie24]

whether or not you do or have done anything listed in Mark 16 concerning a true believer.
I asked for your testimony.

If you're speaking of the Great Commission, yes, I witness to others and give them the Gospel, but I don't shove it down their throats. I try to be an example of faith in progress. Let them ask me why I'm different, them the door is open for the Holy Spirit to work.

If you're referring to taking up serpents and such, that is not referring to literal poisonous snakes, but refers to casting out demons. Luke 10:19.

And no, I don't speak in tongues either, Paul said that not all are given the same gifts of the Spirit. He said, "do all speak in tongues, do all interpret?" The obvious answer is NO.

 

[Samson2020]

A true believer would have a testimony to at least a few of those things as the Lord will confirm to them who they are in Him by having them do those things. Presenting opportunities.

The ability to pray or speak in an unknown tongue is available at the drop of a hat to the true believer.
The speaking in an unknown tongue in public as a conduit is not.

A true believer would at least mention his baptism in the HG as it is an experience not just something acquired by your acceptance.

You speak as one who knows the scripture but not precisely what it means.

As such I wanted to ask for
I do not want to continue
this back and forth as for the moment it would be unproductive.

 

[Charlie24]

A true believer would have a testimony to at least a few of those things as the Lord will confirm to them who they are in Him by having them do those things. Presenting opportunities.

The ability to pray or speak in an unknown tongue is available at the drop of a hat to the true believer.
The speaking in an unknown tongue in public as a conduit is not.

A true believer would at least mention his baptism in the HG as it is an experience not just something acquired by your acceptance.

You speak as one who knows the scripture but not precisely what it means.

As such I wanted to ask for
I do not want to continue
this back and forth as for the moment it would be unproductive.

Yes, I agree our conversation is unproductive. But let me say this about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

All those who received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit received it without asking for it, in most cases they had no idea what it was.

If God wants us to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit, which is Biblical, He will do it without us begging for it, as the Pentecostals say we must do.

 

[Samson2020]

Yes, I agree our conversation is unproductive. But let me say this about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

All those who received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit received it without asking for it, in most cases they had no idea what it was.

If God wants us to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit, which is Biblical, He will do it without us begging for it, as the Pentecostals say we must do.

Then are you admitting you do not have it?
That is what it sounds like

 

[Charlie24]

Then are you admitting you do not have it?
That is what it sounds like

I know many who have been justified by Grace through faith and have not been baptized with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking other tongues.

The baptism with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues is not necessary for salvation. If anyone has told you that it is they have not told you the truth!

 

[Samson2020]

I know many who have been justified by Grace through faith and have not been baptized with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking other tongues.

The baptism with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues is not necessary for salvation. If anyone has told you that they have not told you the truth!

Without the spirit ye are none of his.
At least not yet.
This is the biggest problem
today, disciples of a denomination trying their best to save the world. Knowing not what they speak of for they have not tasted of the heavenly gift.
And Not been taught by the comforter.

 

[Charlie24]

Without the spirit ye are none of his.
At least not yet.
This is the biggest problem
today, disciples of a denomination trying their best to save the world. Knowing not what they speak of for they have not tasted of the heavenly gift.
And Not been taught by the conforter.

Sam, you do know that the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation is separate and apart from the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues?

One must be saved and have the indwelling Holy Spirit before they can receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. Or in the case of Cornelius and his house they received both at the same time under Peter's preaching.

 

[Samson2020]

Your embarrassing yourself.
You should stop.

 

[Charlie24]

Your embarrassing yourself.
You should stop.

No, not embarrassing at all. I can show you everything I said in Scripture. That's if you care to see it?

Are you afraid to see it?

 

[Charlie24]

No, not embarrassing at all. I can show you everything I said in Scripture. That's if you care to see it?

Are you afraid to see it?

Sam, tomorrow I will start a new thread on one of my statements to you. I will show you how we know that the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues is separate and apart from receiving the Indwelling Holy Spirit at the point of our actual salvation.

It will all come from Scripture, and then you can show me from Scripture where I'm wrong!

 

[Samson2020]

Sam, tomorrow I will start a new thread on one of my statements to you. I will show you how we know that the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues is separate and apart from receiving the Indwelling Holy Spirit at the point of our actual salvation.

It will all come from Scripture, and then you can show me from Scripture where I'm wrong!

I wish to show you this one more time by using the definition of the words in place of the words.

By undeserved favor are ye saved through faith, and that faith is not of yourselves faith is the gift of God.

By grace are ye saved through complete trust and confidence in God and this trust is not of yourselves this trust and confidence in God is the gift of God.

 

[Charlie24]

I wish to show you this one more time by using the definition of the words in place of the words.

By undeserved favor are ye saved through faith, and that faith is not of yourselves faith is the gift of God.

By grace are ye saved through complete trust and confidence in God and this trust is not of yourselves this trust and confidence in God is the gift of God.

You can refer to Faith and Grace as the gift, and that would technically be correct.

But the emphasis that Paul placed was on the Grace as being the Gift, with Faith being the means of receiving the Gift of Grace.

 

[Samson2020]

You can refer to Faith and Grace as the gift, and that would technically be correct.

But the emphasis that Paul placed was on the Grace as being the Gift, with Faith being the means of receiving the Gift of Grace.

What is to be perfected in you? Grace? Or Faith?
Gods grace is already perfect but the seed of faith placed in your heart must be perfected in order to achieve the full stature of Christ.

And yes both grace and faith are unwarranted gifts just as the HG is a gift and all of these are given without repentance.

 

[B-A-C]

Rom 12:3; For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

Everyone has at least a measure of faith, even if they say they don't.

Over 40 times the phrase "your faith" is used. It's usually what causes something to happen in the New testament.

Matt 9:22; But Jesus turning and seeing her said, "Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well." At once the woman was made well.
Matt 9:29; Then He touched their eyes, saying, "It shall be done to you according to your faith."
Matt 15:28; Then Jesus said to her, "O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish." And her daughter was healed at once.
Mark 5:34; And He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace and be healed of your affliction."
Mark 10:52; And Jesus said to him, "Go; your faith has made you well." Immediately he regained his sight and began following Him on the road.
Luke 7:50; And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
Luke 8:25; And He said to them, "Where is your faith?" They were fearful and amazed, saying to one another, "Who then is this, that He commands even the winds and the water, and they obey Him?"
Luke 8:48; And He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace."
Luke 17:19; And He said to him, "Stand up and go; your faith has made you well."
Luke 18:42; And Jesus said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has made you well."
Luke 22:32; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."
Mark 7:28; But she answered and *said to Him, "Yes, Lord, but even the dogs under the table feed on the children's crumbs."
Mark 7:29; And He said to her, "Because of this answer go; the demon has gone out of your daughter."

.. or not happen, as the case may be.

Matt 17:19; Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not drive it out?"
Matt 17:20; And He *said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.
Matt 13:58; And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.

Sometimes a lack of faith is what prevents something from happening.

1Thes 3:10; as we night and day keep praying most earnestly that we may see your face, and may complete what is lacking in your faith?

 

[Samson2020]

Rom 12:3; For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

Everyone has at least a measure of faith, even if they say they don't.

Your post is good with one exception. Those to whom Paul is speaking are elect, they are the ones who have been alloted a measure of faith. Not everyone
on the planet, as not everyone is a believer yet.

2 Th 3:2 "That we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men; For ALL MEN HAVE NOT FAITH".
Plain English not all men have faith. At least not this kind of heart faith.

And this issue has been my entire focus in that if God does not impart faith to you then you will not believe. Thus salvation is Gods choice not ours for He is
the dispenser of the faith. Thus the elector of the elect through allotting/giving faith,
And as such holds the salvation of ALL in His hand and His alone.
And we know what His desire is "That all men should be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth" 1 Ti 2:4

 

[Charlie24]

Your post is good with one exception. Those to whom Paul is speaking are elect, they are the ones who have been alloted a measure of faith. Not everyone
on the planet, as not everyone is a believer yet.

2 Th 3:2 "That we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men; For ALL MEN HAVE NOT FAITH".
Plain English not all men have faith. At least not this kind of heart faith.

And this issue has been my entire focus in that if God does not impart faith to you then you will not believe. Thus salvation is Gods choice not ours for He is
the dispenser of the faith. Thus the elector of the elect through allotting/giving faith,
And as such holds the salvation of ALL in His hand and His alone.
And we know what His desire is "That all men should be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth" 1 Ti 2:4

If salvation is God's choice and not man's choice, and He passes over some for salvation with man having no say in the matter, then Psalm 84:11 is a lie.

He would be intentionally holding back good for who He chooses to so so.

Psalms 84:11

"For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly."

According to your theology, God will not give some men the opportunity "to walk uprightly."

That is a pitiful example of theology, Sam.

 

[Samson2020]

If salvation is God's choice and not man's choice, and He passes over some for salvation with man having no say in the matter, then Psalm 84:11 is a lie.

He would be intentionally holding back good for who He chooses to so so.

Psalms 84:11

"For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly."

According to your theology, God will not give some men the opportunity "to walk uprightly."

That is a pitiful example of theology, Sam.

Did you even read the post?
It’s ending is in 100% support of an ALL inclusive salvation of all mankind.
The choices of God are His period. He brought Adam in first then later Moses then JTB then Jesus then us. What choice in His order did we have? None.
But like I said He will have ALL men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth and that will happen according to His election schedule not mans.
That is the good news of the gospel.