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antimonianism

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Most of the world isn't going to come up to you and ask you what you believe. They aren't that naive anymore. They just sit back and watch you.

Matt 10:33; "But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

Matt 16:24; Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.
Luke 9:23; And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

Denying Jesus isn't just the word "I deny Jesus", denying Jesus before men is also how you act before men.

Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into a license to sin and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

You can deny Jesus by your actions.

John 13:35; "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
 
Infused righteousness is the Catholic doctrine of justification. It says by keeping Christ's commands, receiving the sacraments and regular confession and penance etc.. God's righteousness is infused into believers over time.. and it is on this basis they are righteous before God.

Google search 'imparted righteousness', you can read more about it there, it is not an Adventist doctrine exclusively, it is a Protestant doctrine.

I agree the proof we seek is that they believe in Jesus. And what is the proof? The works and the fruit. We cannot see into another person's mind Barny, we cannot see belief unless we see the outward actions.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of imparted righteousness. It has nothing to do with the law of Moses and everything to do with the Person of Christ. When Christ lives within a person, His righteousness will change that person's life. It will be seen in their speech, their actions, their leisure activities, who they keep company with etc. If Christ within you is directing your living by His righteousness, then that is His righteousness imparted into your being and directing your life. The imputed and the imparted righteousness go hand in hand , one cannot exist without the other. Imparted righteousness is all about His righteousness and His doing not our own. This is where the infused righteousness (Catholic) and imparted righteousness (Protestant) differs... the Catholic view of righteousness is the improvement of the self and the flesh which God has already rejected.. the Protestant view is Christ's righteousness lived and expressed through us, nothing of ourselves but all of Christ.

"Imparted righteousness" is not in scripture. It's man's doctrine to bring others under the law for righteousness.

Imputed righteousness is however in scripture. We should keep with what God says and not add to it with man's doctrines.

Regarding the proof you demand of good behavior/lifestyle, we see this amongst non-believers to. Some are Atheists, Agnostic or following some false god. So we see good behavior is not proof/fruit that we can know believers by.

And note how the "imparted righteousness" doctrine has the same outcome as being under the law of sin and death for righteousness. They both result in death. What they have in common is that it's followers seek to be made perfect by the flesh. And what both have in common is that people are judged unrighteous unless perfect obedience is attained. The "imparted righteousness" doctrine differs only in that it mixes grace with these works of the law. And scripture tells us you cannot mix grace with works of the law, Rom 11:6

But, imputed righteousness results in life everlasting for those who believe in Jesus.
Believing in Jesus are our works that shows our faith, John 6:29
 
"Imparted righteousness" is not in scripture. It's man's doctrine to bring others under the law for righteousness.

Imputed righteousness is however in scripture. We should keep with what God says and not add to it with man's doctrines.

Regarding the proof you demand of good behavior/lifestyle, we see this amongst non-believers to. Some are Atheists, Agnostic or following some false god. So we see good behavior is not proof/fruit that we can know believers by.

And note how the "imparted righteousness" doctrine has the same outcome as being under the law of sin and death for righteousness. They both result in death. What they have in common is that it's followers seek to be made perfect by the flesh. And what both have in common is that people are judged unrighteous unless perfect obedience is attained. The "imparted righteousness" doctrine differs only in that it mixes grace with these works of the law. And scripture tells us you cannot mix grace with works of the law, Rom 11:6

But, imputed righteousness results in life everlasting for those who believe in Jesus.
Believing in Jesus are our works that shows our faith, John 6:29

Imparted righteousness is in scripture:

Jeremiah 31:33-34 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”"

Corinthians 3:18 "And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit."

Call it something else if we like, but the principle of imparted righteousness is correct. If we believe God *only* imputes righteousness then we must believe the Spirit lives within the believer for no real purpose or benefit? Then the Spirit is confined within a perpetual prison of our human flesh until He is released from prison at our mortal death. Then the Spirit is not really joined to our spirit as scripture says, and we are not truly children born of God but merely adopted strangers. Then if you are a believer there will be no outward signs, no fruit and no good works to show your faith. Then your faith is dead and your religion is in vain, and what you call belief is not genuine belief but mere wishful thinking and hoping. But thinking and hoping something to be so when it is not, is self-deception.

Regarding the proof you demand of good behavior/lifestyle, we see this amongst non-believers to. Some are Atheists, Agnostic or following some false god. So we see good behavior is not proof/fruit that we can know believers by.

Fruit and proof also includes confession with the mouth that Jesus is Lord.. in this way atheist and agnostic cannot say this. Behavior is indeed proof of a changed life.
Please provide one biblical example where a person met Christ, believed in Him and their life was not changed as a result. Many genuinely saved ones experience a transformation in the way they think, speak, act, and live their life. If we have not had this transformation, and continue in the old things, we have not truly seen the Lord. When we meet the Lord it causes us to 'drop our nets' like the fishermen.. or repay back what we stole.. like the dishonest tax collector. Do you believe God is living? If you believe God is living , you will live your life according to the living God. He will not permit you to behave anyway you like. His presence in your life will be seen by your behavior. Perhaps you have been taught by men that if you meet some requirement (e.g. believe in Jesus) you will be saved, but perhaps you have believed in the doctrine but not truly met the Lord and lack the experience of a changed life. If you have a changed life you will know what imparted righteousness means, you cannot deny it because it is proved by your experience of God.
 
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Regarding the proof you demand of good behavior/lifestyle, we see this amongst non-believers to. Some are Atheists, Agnostic or following some false god. So we see good behavior is not proof/fruit that we can know believers by.

I agree with this and I don't know how I would pray for others if it was not so.

1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

If I judge the people in my life by looking at what they are doing then I am judging by appearances.
If I judge them by the Spirit then I will listen to what the Spirit says about judgement.
John 12:31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

So as I pray for someone who is hurting others I have to remember that it is the prince of this world driving them through ignorance and not because they are lost.The people I pray for are not lost,no they are found and that's why God has me lift them up to receive the light that is blocked by the prince of this world.God found everyone through Jesus and we are supposed to be birthing sons of God by believing on the one whom God sent and that he was able to accomplish the work his Father sent him to do.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Any theology which can't explain how this verse is truth should be promptly tossed?
I am certainly missing the gospel if I judge by how many blind people are falling in holes.

John 7:24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly."
Instead of judging by what people do try judging by what Jesus did.
 
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For Barny:

Jesus said we should look at people's fruit to know if they are false prophet or not:

Matt 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

Even Jesus Himself is more concerned about the fruit and actions, than what comes out of the mouth:
Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

we see the corresponding proof of their belief in Acts 16:31 in verse 33..they were baptized!
Acts 16:33
At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized.

If a person claims to believe in Christ and says "oh I'm not sure if i want to be baptised"... this is enough proof that they do not truly believe in Christ.

If a person is living a certain lifestyle and claims to have believed in Christ, but their lifestyle does not change.. this is proof they have not truly met Christ. Anyone who meets the living Lord will be changed.

There is a big difference between accepting something to be true... and truly meeting Christ in an experiential way. It is the experience of Christ that saves us, for even the demons believe in God, but they are not saved.
 
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Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Any theology which can't explain how this verse is truth should be promptly tossed?
I am certainly missing the gospel if I judge by how many blind people are falling in holes.

John 7:24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly."
Instead of judging by what people do try judging by what Jesus did.

Very well stated thiscrosshurts.

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.


There is no other way to be saved.

We live a life in the spirit as a new creation and are
saved only through the power of the Gospel. Not a full
Gospel, simply the true Gospel. A life powered by the
gift of the Holy Spirit. Our faith is a gift, life is a gift,
all fruit and gifts of the spirit are given to us.


 
Call it something else if we like, but the principle of imparted righteousness is correct. If we believe God *only* imputes righteousness then we must believe the Spirit lives within the believer for no real purpose or benefit? Then the Spirit is confined within a perpetual prison of our human flesh until He is released from prison at our mortal death. Then the Spirit is not really joined to our spirit as scripture says, and we are not truly children born of God but merely adopted strangers. Then if you are a believer there will be no outward signs, no fruit and no good works to show your faith. Then your faith is dead and your religion is in vain, and what you call belief is not genuine belief but mere wishful thinking and hoping. But thinking and hoping something to be so when it is not, is self-deception.
Fruit and proof also includes confession with the mouth that Jesus is Lord.. in this way atheist and agnostic cannot say this. Behavior is indeed proof of a changed life.
Please provide one biblical example where a person met Christ, believed in Him and their life was not changed as a result. Many genuinely saved ones experience a transformation in the way they think, speak, act, and live their life. If we have not had this transformation, and continue in the old things, we have not truly seen the Lord. When we meet the Lord it causes us to 'drop our nets' like the fishermen.. or repay back what we stole.. like the dishonest tax collector. Do you believe God is living? If you believe God is living , you will live your life according to the living God. He will not permit you to behave anyway you like. His presence in your life will be seen by your behavior. Perhaps you have been taught by men that if you meet some requirement (e.g. believe in Jesus) you will be saved, but perhaps you have believed in the doctrine but not truly met the Lord and lack the experience of a changed life. If you have a changed life you will know what imparted righteousness means, you cannot deny it because it is proved by your experience of God.

As your focus is so much on physical behavior, what level of good behavior/obedience to the law would you think is needed to prove that you're saved?
Is it perfect obedience to the law that shows the "imparted righteousness" proof of salvation?
Or is there some lessor, yet acceptable, level of obedience to the law that shows the "imparted righteousness" proof of salvation?
Can you provide scripture to support whichever of these 2 you believe?
 
As your focus is so much on physical behavior, what level of good behavior/obedience to the law would you think is needed to prove that you're saved?
Is it perfect obedience to the law that shows the "imparted righteousness" proof of salvation?
Or is there some lessor, yet acceptable, level of obedience to the law that shows the "imparted righteousness" proof of salvation?
Can you provide scripture to support whichever of these 2 you believe?

I've already stated that proof includes confession with the mouth that Jesus is Lord. This is minimum, but not all. There is also the necessity of water baptism. This is a key proof that atheists or agnostics cannot replicate..and if they do, they are liars. But even those who call Jesus Lord, Lord.. may not do the will of the Father, and so may not be saved (Matt 7:21). So it consists of 1) confession with the mouth (Rom 10:9), 2) water baptism (Mark 16:16), 3) doing the Father's will (Matt 7:21) , 4) obeying the commands of Christ (John 14:23), and 5) living in the Spirit (Romans 8:6), and above all, being conformed to the image of Christ (Rom 8:29). You've probably believed the lie most of your life that if you belief in Jesus you get a free pass to Heaven. But actually as the bible reveals your destination, that God has predestined for you before you were born, is to be conformed to the image of Christ (Rom 8:2), and enter the gates of the New Jerusalem (Rev 21), let's hope you make it :)

The importance of obedience cannot be understated:
Romans 2:13 "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous."

If you have an issue with this, then I suggest taking it up with God, it is His Word, not mine.
 
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Our faith. What is faith? Is is simply saying I believe in something. I believe the answer is yes, or I believe the answer is no. Do you believe in the words "yes and "no" or do you believe in the answer?
There are people who say, "I believe in Jesus". What Jesus? Some believe in a Jesus from the planet Kolob, some believe in a Jesus who had a sinless mother and a grandmother named Anne,
some believe in a Jesus who is not God, some believe in a Jesus who was only a prophet, and some.... believe in the word Jesus like they believe in the words "yes or "no".
To really believe in Jesus, is to believe in the things Jesus believed in. To acts like Jesus, to walk like Jesus, to love like Jesus, to follow his teachings, to become a servant like Jesus, are some of
the things you do if you really "believe" in Jesus. Otherwise it's kind of like saying I believe the Dallas Cowboys is the best football team, but I'll wear Green Bay Packers clothing, root for the Patriots,
and go to all the Ravens games, even though I live in Dallas. Faith isn't just what you say, it's what you do.

You quoted Rom 4:5; above.
Four verses later it gives an example of this.
Rom 4:9; Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."

What was the faith that was credited to Abraham? Was it merely saying he believed? Or was it something he did that proved his faith when it was tested?
Heb 11:17; By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;

Jas 2:20; But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:21; Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22; You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was proven;
Jas 2:23; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone..

Hi B-A-C,

Sorry for the slow response. I've been busy at work.

John 12:44
Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me."

In believing in Jesus we are really believing God.
In believing in Jesus our faith is counted as righteousness, Rom 4:5
In believing in Jesus we're sanctified, Heb 10:10; perfected, Heb 10:14; and cannot sin, 1John 3:9.
In believing in Jesus we have life everlasting.

God's will for us is to believe in Jesus, John 6:40
Our works that shows our faith is to believe in Jesus, John 6:29
We overcome the world by believing in Jesus, 1John 5:5

And remember John 12:44
Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me."

So in believing in Jesus (our works that shows our faith) we are really believing God. Abraham also believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.

Unfortunately this is not as easy as it seems, for some. They can't accept that believing God is enough. Salvation by grace is not sufficient (this is unbelief) hence they add works of the law to be perfected by the flesh (Gal 3:3).
Unfortunately this error doctrine of mixing grace with works of the law is being lukewarm, which is not acceptable to God, Rev 3:16. It's unbelief.

Jude 1:3; Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.
Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

"the faith", not "a faith" what is the difference? A faith is believing in anything about anyone. 'The faith' is about believing in Jesus and all he stood for. Obeying the commandments, loving people, serving people, praying for people, and even denying himself (to the point of death on a cross) to save people. If we aren't denying ourselves, and putting other people first, loving them and serving them, we aren't
really believing in Jesus. We are just saying we do. Kind of like saying we believe in the Dallas Cowboys.

Back to Jude above.
Jude 1:8; Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.
Jude 1:12; These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
Jude 1:16; These men are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.
Jude 1:17; But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Jude 1:18; that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts."

Notice all the verses say "these men" (who are opposed to 'the faith') are people who don't follow the teachings of Jesus, only "caring for themselves", and "following after their own ungodly lusts".

If you're following yourself, you aren't following Jesus, no matter who's football jersey you're wearing.

1 Pet 1:7; so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

If your faith is only what you say, it isn't faith at all.

What proof would you think is needed of one's faith.
Is it perfect obedience to the law (James 2:10;)?
Or is it some lessor, yet acceptable level of obedience? And what scripture is there to show what this lessor level of obedience is?

If our works shows our faith then it's important we know exactly what works are required.

Contrary to what you claim, scripture tells us clearly and simply what we are to do.
We all know what faith is, Heb 11:1
Scripture says our faith will be tested.
And without works faith is dead, being alone, James 2:17.

The works that shows our faith is to believe in Jesus, John 6:29.

Yet we see there is a stumbling block, Rev 2:14; for Christians. It's the law. Establishing righteousness by works of the law. This is spiritual fornication with Hagar.

Gal 3:3
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

Doctrines that proclaim grace but then add that salvation must be proved by obedience to the law, such are nothing more than a lukewarm mix of grace and works. It is unbelief and failing God's grace Heb 12:15.

The law is a stumbling block for Christians. Many scriptures warn against turning to the law for righteousness. Yet we see this so often that some proclaim grace with the provision that works of the law must be added as proof of righteousness.

For Christians who believe in Jesus, when their faith is tested, they realize that you cannot mix grace with works of the law, Rom 11:6.
 
I've already stated that proof includes confession with the mouth that Jesus is Lord. This is minimum, but not all. There is also the necessity of water baptism. This is a key proof that atheists or agnostics cannot replicate..and if they do, they are liars. But even those who call Jesus Lord, Lord.. may not do the will of the Father, and so may not be saved (Matt 7:21). So it consists of 1) confession with the mouth (Rom 10:9), 2) water baptism (Mark 16:16), 3) doing the Father's will (Matt 7:21) , 4) obeying the commands of Christ (John 14:23), and 5) living in the Spirit (Romans 8:6), and above all, being conformed to the image of Christ (Rom 8:29). You've probably believed the lie most of your life that if you belief in Jesus you get a free pass to Heaven. But actually as the bible reveals your destination, that God has predestined for you before you were born, is to be conformed to the image of Christ (Rom 8:2), and enter the gates of the New Jerusalem (Rev 21), let's hope you make it :)

The importance of obedience cannot be understated:
Romans 2:13 "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous."

If you have an issue with this, then I suggest taking it up with God, it is His Word, not mine.

No offense but you haven't really answered my question. I was specifically referring to obedience to the law.
As your focus is so much on physical behavior, what level of good behavior/obedience to the law would you think is needed to prove that you're saved?
Is it perfect obedience to the law that shows the "imparted righteousness" proof of salvation?
Or is there some lessor, yet acceptable, level of obedience to the law that shows the "imparted righteousness" proof of salvation?
Can you provide scripture to support whichever of these 2 you believe?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
 
The works that shows our faith is to believe in Jesus, John 6:29.

It means the first work that God requires is for us to believe in Christ. It does not negate the necessity of other works, such as water baptism.. etc.
I can see you are quite confused, not only do you deny the existence of sin you have difficulty understanding the difference between faith and works. I guess this is the result of your private interpretation of scripture. Reading a few good bible commentaries might help you.
 
No offense but you haven't really answered my question. I was specifically referring to obedience to the law.
As your focus is so much on physical behavior, what level of good behavior/obedience to the law would you think is needed to prove that you're saved?
Is it perfect obedience to the law that shows the "imparted righteousness" proof of salvation?
Or is there some lessor, yet acceptable, level of obedience to the law that shows the "imparted righteousness" proof of salvation?
Can you provide scripture to support whichever of these 2 you believe?

Perhaps you have a reading or comprehension problem, because I have already stated in my previous post #215 that this is not an issue of obedience to the Law of Moses but obedience to the indwelling Person of Christ. I have already stated 6 requirements for obedience in my previous post.. none of which have anything to do with the Law of Moses which Christians are not under.
 
As your focus is so much on physical behavior, what level of good behavior/obedience to the law would you think is needed to prove that you're saved?
Is it perfect obedience to the law that shows the "imparted righteousness" proof of salvation?
Or is there some lessor, yet acceptable, level of obedience to the law that shows the "imparted righteousness" proof of salvation?
Can you provide scripture to support whichever of these 2 you believe?

The imparted righteousness is love Barny, but you know this and all scripture supports this. If we love we fulfill the law. Love is the motivation not obedience, for obedience comes through love. The law dosen't speak to those that love, but to those that do not love, to those that love there is no law. The law is only a guide to teach us what love isn't, but has no power to make us loving. Love is imparted to us from God in Christ. It's also through Christ that we understand love. Again it is through the law we understand what love is not. If I love God with all my heart I fulfill the first four commands of the law. God shows us how to understand what love is not, through these laws which says "thou shall not", except for the fourth where it starts with "Remember" If we understand that disobedience to the law is unrighteousness which is unloving, then through love comes righteousness which is obedience to the law. Through the law I understand unrighteousness, and also through the law I learn righteousness. Even the Mosiac law was about love, it taught how God was going to cleanse us through Christ, so that we could have eternal life, by the slaying of a clean animal. Are not grace and love the same? Freeing us from being unloving (sin) is that not grace? God is love all that is God is love, in Christ we become love, so much so that self dissapears and self is the motivation for sin.
 
Perhaps you have a reading or comprehension problem, because I have already stated in my previous post #215 that this is not an issue of obedience to the Law of Moses but obedience to the indwelling Person of Christ. I have already stated 6 requirements for obedience in my previous post.. none of which have anything to do with the Law of Moses which Christians are not under.

It is difficult to comprehend such a complicated doctrine that you follow. And I still have no idea how you determine if someone's behavior shows proof of "imparted righteousness". This complicated doctrine you follow reminds me of 2Cor 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The doctrine you follow seems to be a subtle message meant to corrupt peoples mind's from the simplicity that is in Christ.
For example I noted in an earlier post that you even said that to believe in Jesus is believing a lie.
You said: "You've probably believed the lie most of your life that if you belief in Jesus you get a free pass to Heaven"

The doctrine you follow still even has Christians being charged with sin when scriptures say we've ceased from sin.

The complicated doctrine you follow splits the law so as to deceive others into righteousness by works of the law. It's a doctrine I have encountered before and that with the same methods of obfuscation.
And remember obfuscation is not consistent with the simplicity that is in Christ. 2Cor 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
 
The imparted righteousness is love Barny, but you know this and all scripture supports this. If we love we fulfill the law. Love is the motivation not obedience, for obedience comes through love. The law dosen't speak to those that love, but to those that do not love, to those that love there is no law. The law is only a guide to teach us what love isn't, but has no power to make us loving. Love is imparted to us from God in Christ. It's also through Christ that we understand love. Again it is through the law we understand what love is not. If I love God with all my heart I fulfill the first four commands of the law. God shows us how to understand what love is not, through these laws which says "thou shall not", except for the fourth where it starts with "Remember" If we understand that disobedience to the law is unrighteousness which is unloving, then through love comes righteousness which is obedience to the law. Through the law I understand unrighteousness, and also through the law I learn righteousness. Even the Mosiac law was about love, it taught how God was going to cleanse us through Christ, so that we could have eternal life, by the slaying of a clean animal. Are not grace and love the same? Freeing us from being unloving (sin) is that not grace? God is love all that is God is love, in Christ we become love, so much so that self dissapears and self is the motivation for sin.

We all agree that we should love one another. And this is Christ's commandment, 1John 3:23.

But you are bringing love back to the law of sin and death (aka law of righteousness) and therefore judging righteousness by works of the law.
To go back under the law judging righteousness by works is to make yourself a sinner, Gal 2:18.
A little leaven (doctrine of works of the law, Matt 16:12) leavens the whole lump, Gal 5:9.
Therefore purge out the old leaven, 1Cor 5:7.
You can't mix grace with works of the law, Rom 11:6
 
"The doctrine you follow still even has Christians being charged with sin when scriptures say we've ceased from sin."

If you do not sin and are not a sinner my congratulations to you. But if you do sin it is nothing but self-deception for you to deny the obvious.
 
Closing thread for review. 24 pages long is enough. Fact of the matter is, if a believer is humble and ask for wisdom GOD will grant that to them so they may understand His Word.

Others will never change and believe their own interpretation of Scripture stubbornly. No forum, church, or person can change a man. Only the Holy Spirit can.
 
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