Are some people predestined for hell no matter what they do.
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Butch5
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Thanks, but the English word hell isn't in the Greek text of Revelation.
Butch5
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You choose to address my post and then chose to be cryptic and not answer it.
Butch5
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Thanks, but the Englush word hell isn't in the Greek text of Revelation.
You've mentioned Hades, the Lake of Fire and outer darkness. What about hell?
Exactly wrong:
"According as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world..."
(Paul's letter to the church at Ephesus, fourth verse of chapter one.)
"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God..."
(Peter's first letter, second verse of chapter 1.)
"You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you..."
(Sixteenth verse of the fifteenth chapter of the Gospel according to Saint John.)
"whom He predestined, them He also called"
(Thirtieth verse of the eighth chapter of Paul's letter the Romans.)
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In context each of those passages is referring to the Jews
I am Israel. So, I'll just agree with you.
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But it's in the past.
Butch5, I would enjoy hearing your teaching on this matter.
LordKnows
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Because you believe this, what is behind your question?
But, the equivalent Greek word is.
Usually when people are talking about 'hell' , they are referring to the eternal / final destination which Is the lake of fire and brimstone.
Non-believers Now are in the holding place Until the final judgement day. So That would be 'Hades' / hell. And That is where the rich man still is.
Are you Jewish? Or do you believe that the Church is an extension Of Israel ?
Because I'm a born-again Gentile. And , since the cross, all born-again believers are part of the Church. The universal Church which are all born-again believers in the entire world.
Butch5
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It's just a matter of context. If you were reading an American history book and George Washington was quoted as saying all of us Americans have muskets, would you assume that all Americans today have muskets? I don't think you would. You would understand that in context his statement spoke of another time. Just because someone is an American today doesn't necessarily mean his statement applies to them. It's no different with the Scriptures. They are an historical document. When Jesus said, 'you did not choose me, but I chose you', He was speaking to a specific group of people. We were not there and were not a part of that group. We're told also in Scripture that He only came to the Jews.
When Paul said that God had chosen them before the foundation of the world, the context is the Jews. It was the Jews that were chosen. When he says, 'who He predestined, He called, it's all in the past tense. It's about people who God had known in the past and called. People like David, Moses, Abraham, though not a Jew per se he was the father of them.
The passage from Peter is mistranslated, It's not elect according to the foreknowledge of God. It's the elect sojourners of the dispersion.
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the choice sojourners of the dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, (1 Pet. 1:1 YLT)
The dispersion or diaspora in Greek is a term used of the Jews who were scattered among the nations.
These passages aren't of Christians, let alone universally of Christians.
It's all context. Today, Christians are taught by theologians and pastors what the Bible says and then they're taken haphazardly through the Scriptures randomly gathering passages of Scripture out of context to supposedly support what has been taught. That's not that proper way to learn the Scriptures and it leads to what we see today, everyone having their own flavor of Christianity. When we do that we can make the Bible say almost anything we want it to say.
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So, there are multiple places with the same name? How does one know which is being spoken of? Imagine if you were reading a book on World War ll and America, Russia, and Germany all had the same name. It would quite difficult to figure out who was doing what, wouldn't it?
But we Also know that salvation was extended to the Gentiles in the New Testament.
Hmmm -- Scripture is Always to be taken In context -- and it's Not anything 'haphazard' as you're speaking of -- it's called doing word studies -- going through Scripture and taking a particular word or phrase to see how it's used throughout Scripture. Making an outline and learning That way. One of several ways -- another it doing a 'book' study. Usually a shorter book and taking it as a whole 1st and then taking a chapter, verse by verse. Asking questions as you go.
Some people Do take verses haphazardly out of context and come up with some very unBiblical concepts. And, yes, a person Can get the Bible to say most anything. And that's Also why studying with a group is important. Various perspectives of passages.
POst 265 sounds a lot like Calvinism. There are Other verses that say -- that 'who so ever believeth'
And No , I'm Not a Calvinist Or an Armenialist. -- just a good ole fashioned born-again believer. Those two were simply men like any other men. Except that they were believers.
Hmmm -- Scripture is Always to be taken In context -- and it's Not anything 'haphazard' as you're speaking of -- it's called doing word studies -- going through Scripture and taking a particular word or phrase to see how it's used throughout Scripture. Making an outline and learning That way. One of several ways -- another it doing a 'book' study. Usually a shorter book and taking it as a whole 1st and then taking a chapter, verse by verse. Asking questions as you go.
Some people Do take verses haphazardly out of context and come up with some very unBiblical concepts. And, yes, a person Can get the Bible to say most anything. And that's Also why studying with a group is important. Various perspectives of passages.
POst 265 sounds a lot like Calvinism. There are Other verses that say -- that 'who so ever believeth'
And No , I'm Not a Calvinist Or an Armenialist. -- just a good ole fashioned born-again believer. Those two were simply men like any other men. Except that they were believers.
Butch5
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But, that's the question, what is the equivalent Greek word? Hades means the grave, Gehenna is the Valley of the Son of Hinnom which is a location outside of Jerusalem. Tartarus is translated the pit. It's only used once in Scripture and in that passage the ones going there are fallen angels, not people. If you do a search of Tartarus you'll find that it was popular in Greek mythology. You'll also find that it's quite similar to what many Christians believe. Why would Christians have beliefs that align with Greek mythology? The Greek mythologies existed before Jesus came to earth. Could it be that over the years Christian thought and Greek mythologies have been blended?
Christians are the descendants of Abraham.
They are Israel.
They are grafted into the tree whose root is Israel, joining the Jewish faithful.
Butch5
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Book studies are great, but if we don't consider the historical background, geopolitical situation, and the like we can still get off base.
There's Hades, Gehenna and Sheol -- kind of depends on what source you're reading from /who you're talking To.
Context, context, context.
Not quite the same thing as your WW 11 example. In a war -- every country has their distinctive uniforms. The uniform id's the country.
I Do believe that the central idea is that No one Wants to end up in those places. One of those terms is taken from an example of what people understood and it's applied to a future place.
Scripture tells us enough about Both heaven and hell so that we can be informed -- and the informed person would Usually want to end up in heaven / paradise / New Jerusalem for eternity.
Now there Has been the occasional person who feel obligated to pay , personally, for their own sinfulness. They Don't want anyone else to suffer in their place. They refuse to accept the cross.
