That text says that.
Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of [h]their deeds.
Are We In The End Times?
- Thread starter Chad
- Start date
Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of [h]their deeds.
That's one big problem with pre-trib. It's all 'indirectly'. There's nothing solid about the teaching. If you would search the scriptures without a pre-trib bias, you would believe the words of Jesus when he says,
"Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,....And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:...and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
You would believe the words of Paul in 1 Thes. 4 where he says the rapture and second coming happen together.
You would reject the notion that the church is not mentioned after chapter 3 in Revelation.
You would understand that "not being appointed to wrath" is attributed to salvation and NOT a rapture.
You would reject changing the meaning and timing of "The Day of The Lord" and leave it right where it belongs - at the end of tribulation. You would see the reason it was changed was to overcome a major pre-trib contradiction. ETC.!
In order to support pre-trib - OF COURSE it's important to quote a verse that says Christ returns BEFORE the tribulation or a verse that clearly states its occurrence is before the tribulation! I do look at all scripture and according to your comment above, it appears to me that YOU don't.
Why, because you just can't believe God would allow Christians to suffer tribulation? Are Christians too good to endure tribulation? Revelation 6 has nothing to do with the rapture. The coming wrath of God is also mentioned in Revelation 11, so what's up with that? We are removed from His wrath because of SALVATION - NOT a rapture! We stay right here through it because God AND mankind needs us here. If He were to remove the Church before tribulation He would be going against His Word.
Those who suffer tribulation the most are those who follow the beast, not your average unbeliever. You think God will not allow believers to endure tribulation when there are dozens of verses that say we are appointed to suffer tribulation! Not one verse correctly interpreted says we are removed before the tribulation.
Worthy to escape means "to flee out of things that are occurring" which implies one has to take action to take action to accomplish it. It's NOT a removal from tribulation via a rapture!
I would not see it if noone had taught me pre trib. But Paul says it's a mystery. A mystery is hidden.
The main reason I believe pretrib is that it makes no sense to lazy around and marry and eat and notice nothing, when an antichrist forces you to choose between him or God and your head goes off if you choose God. There's all sorts of trouble. How can you lazy around and mind your own business with all that going on?
The main reason I believe pretrib is that it makes no sense to lazy around and marry and eat and notice nothing, when an antichrist forces you to choose between him or God and your head goes off if you choose God. There's all sorts of trouble. How can you lazy around and mind your own business with all that going on?
And your mind is OPEN! You can't convince me of that! If my mind is closed then why did I convert from pre-trib to post trib several years ago? No other scripture will pop up because the doctrine of pre-trib is well explained. My question is, "Why did Jesus say the gathering happens AFTER the tribulation?"
Post-tribbers will be ready far more than pre-tribbers. Even though pre-tribbers say it's imminent, there are no signs whatsoever to let us know it's imminent, and no matter what, believers are not in tribulation. In post trib the world has gone so bad that we would expect it to happen causing us to spiritually prepare. Another problem with pre-trib is that no matter how bad the world gets, according to pre-trib, they are NOT in the tribulation! Why? Because everyone is still here!
Give a bible to any young person and show them every rapture verse (which is only a few) and ask them when the gathering happens, BEFORE OR AFTER the tribulation and I assure you NOT one would say before. A mystery doesn't mean it cannot be understood.
hidden thing, secret, mystery
generally mysteries, religious secrets, confided only to the initiated and not to ordinary mortals
- a hidden or secret thing, not obvious to the understanding, a hidden purpose or counsel
In your previous reply you said you keep an open mind. Here you said, "The Rapture will no doubt occur pre-trib, I believe."
I can admit my mind is made up. It was open years ago and then I learned the truth and the truth has closed it on this issue.
You said,
That's not true, we have dozens of warnings. That's the purpose of the 'seals' and the entire book of Revelation AND Mathew 24!
You are taking that verse WAY out of context. You are referring to Revelation 2:22 I assume? That was written about Jezebel to the church of Thyatira.
John saw the day of the Lord. Why would he only write about churches then? It's the same now.
Yes the more I read about, the more I think it's not pre wrath.
John was instructed to write what he sees. I don't think the day of the Lord is even mentioned in the Revelation until ch. 16.
In the beginning it says he was in the Spirit on the day of the Lord. Some say that's sunday, but I think he was taken in the Spirit to see that whole time that he describes.
Jesus said a year of the Lord's favor. He quoted from a year of the Lord's favour and a day of His wrath. If 2000 years is a year, I don't think a day means a literal day.
2000: 365=5,6
Claire smith
Member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2019
- Messages
- 1
I really love your qoutes and preaches,The lord is your strenth.
The reason why some of the prophets and apostles believed the Lord was going to return during their lifetime is because they were being persecuted by Rome and Christianity was outlawed. They presumed it was the end just like many did when Hitler was in power. Many believed he was the anti-Christ.
We've been given signs and 'some' of the are here. The biggest sign of all is when the Arabs and Iranians try to take out Israel again. The Western Wall will fall and that's a big one.
Sunilc
Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2019
- Messages
- 2
It's so fascinating to see many say, "We are in the last days". But, we need to understand two basic things.
1. Even the Son of Man doesn't know when. Jesus himself said, he doesn't know. How can we say, we know?
2. The End will not come unless the Gospel is preached to the ends of the World. Still, the harvest is plentiful. Having said that, we should be aware and be ready for his coming and should not be like that Rich man who bought the fields grown crops, said to himself, I will eat, sleep and enjoy life. Rather, we should be watchful like those virgins who took the oil for the lamp and was waiting for the Bridegroom.
1. Even the Son of Man doesn't know when. Jesus himself said, he doesn't know. How can we say, we know?
2. The End will not come unless the Gospel is preached to the ends of the World. Still, the harvest is plentiful. Having said that, we should be aware and be ready for his coming and should not be like that Rich man who bought the fields grown crops, said to himself, I will eat, sleep and enjoy life. Rather, we should be watchful like those virgins who took the oil for the lamp and was waiting for the Bridegroom.
Trevor
Active
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2019
- Messages
- 923
None of us know the exact time, but our Lord encourages us to read the signs of the times. We are told people will become lovers of themselves, well I don't know about you but when I see people choosing to change their gender even to the point of self mutilation, that, and the obsession of tattoos and piercings is total self obsession, total self love and an act of obedience to the father of lies. Then, there is the moral decline of our society, the church and our political systems, where marriage, an institution that seeks Gods blessing on the union of a man and a woman, is denigrated by the insistence of sodomites that the law should be changed to include the abomination of their unions. this degrades the beauty and holiness of a sacred festival that has, for centuries, made Holy, the joining of men and women before God. We are also told, that in the last days, Christians will be persecuted and many will be put to death and we see, throughout the middle east, this coming to pass as many poor souls are being slaughtered purely because of their faith and this is being ignored by many countries that, to gain moral credibility, profess Christianity and to their shame walk by on the other side. Another end time prophesy is that the majority will fall away from the faith, well, in our area in England most of the places of worship are now given over to restaurants, private homes and art gallery's etc... in fact the Methodists are now worshipping in the Catholic church. We are encouraged to learn a lesson from the fig tree and when we see the twigs get tender and it's leaves come out we know that the summer is near. I believe that the leaves are out and the fruit will soon be ready for harvest.
Brother-Paul
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2015
- Messages
- 4,002
Evidence of the End Times has been around for 2000 years, what we are seeing now is the latter days of the end times.
The key to the latter day is clear to us but could not be seen by the Jews in the first century. First the Temple had to be demolished which we know happened in A.D 70. At that time the Jews were scattered across the world, if they hadn't they wouldn't be around today, God did it to protect His people, even though they had rejected His One and Only Son, the promised Messiah, the Christ.
The key to the latter days is clear today, in fact it has been clear for 71 years. Scripture says the Jews would be scattered as they were, it tells us Israel, once a land of milk and honey would become barren, it was. But then we have the prophesy the Jews will return to the Promised land, although this was attempted around 1920 with the Balfour Treaty, few returned, it wasn't until after the second world war that they started to return.
Here is the key to the latter days. On 15 May 1948, Israel was again declared a state again. From then on the latter day clock ticks down, as you say Trevor, no one knows the day or the hours, we are to watch and be ready.
Since that time the world has changed, initially starting slow, and now gather pace. Jesus called the happenings in thee periods, the birth pangs, it is not yet the end but by the birth pangs we will know the time is near, in fact at the door step. What signs have there been, here are a few, I appreciate you have already mentioned some, thank you.
In the late 1950's came the shortening of clothing especially low cut tops and shorter skirts.
Also around that time and the early 1960's we saw flower power and Free sex, Free speech also increasing.
The pill became widely used and sex, sex, sex was the thing. Sex outside marriage increased followed not far behind by divorce, divorce, divorce.
Children started to become more disobedient to their parents, teachers and those in authority.
Year on year all these things have continued to increase and worsen, scripture calls it an hardening of hearts, it sure is.
There have always been wars but the numbers have increased, Israel has had 8 since becoming a state and every day seems like another could happen
Scripture is clear in the latter days there will not just be wars, there will also be rumours of wars, every week we her of rumours, threats of wars.
Scripture says there will be an increase in earth quakes, statistic show the number of earth quakes has continued to increase since 1900, getting more frequent and more intense in the last couple of decades.
Scripture says in these times there will be an increase in pestilences, again this is very clear, hospitals talk of super bugs, there is HIV, ebola virus and more.
Scripture says there will be an increase in famines, again some say there has always been famines, true, but they are increasing.
Scripture also tells us that man will go with man and woman with woman, LGBTQ+ Never before has there been such a situation except Sodom and Gomorrah. Jesus said the end times will be as the days of Noah, the time of Noah was the terribly sinful time of Sodom and Gomorrah.
God said after the flood at the time of Noah, never again will I flood the whole world. But scripture prophesies in the end times there will be raging waters in diverse places, we are seeing this all round the world, in places never thought of, flooding in the Sahara dessert, various places in USA, UK and Europe, even Africa, Australia, China and lots more.
The evidence is clear for all to see, but the key that turned in 1948 when Israel became a state again, started the period of birth pains which are at the end of the period, the period before Christ's Return in Glory.
The second most important item to note is that these events, all prophesied events started slowly in 1948 and have picked up speed, become more intense as the years have passed by, at the current time they are increasing at an alarming rate, alarming I would say for those that are not born again, that are not saved.
Jesus is coming again and very soon, he will come like a thief in the night, when we least expect him. We are told, we are warned to be ready, we are to be as the five wise virgins, not the five foolish ones. Not only should we be ready but we should also be asking, who isn't saved? Who doesn't know Jesus yet? Who can I tell, whom can I pray for, which loved ones refuse tom accept Christ, which friend won't listen, we are not to be troubled but pray in faith and believe.
God calls us we do not call him, share God's love and pray, pray, pray,
Lord here our prayers...…………………………… in Jesus name Amen
The harvest is ready but the workers are few. Time is getting short, the birth pangs are increasing in speed and intensity.
In His Love.
The key to the latter day is clear to us but could not be seen by the Jews in the first century. First the Temple had to be demolished which we know happened in A.D 70. At that time the Jews were scattered across the world, if they hadn't they wouldn't be around today, God did it to protect His people, even though they had rejected His One and Only Son, the promised Messiah, the Christ.
The key to the latter days is clear today, in fact it has been clear for 71 years. Scripture says the Jews would be scattered as they were, it tells us Israel, once a land of milk and honey would become barren, it was. But then we have the prophesy the Jews will return to the Promised land, although this was attempted around 1920 with the Balfour Treaty, few returned, it wasn't until after the second world war that they started to return.
Here is the key to the latter days. On 15 May 1948, Israel was again declared a state again. From then on the latter day clock ticks down, as you say Trevor, no one knows the day or the hours, we are to watch and be ready.
Since that time the world has changed, initially starting slow, and now gather pace. Jesus called the happenings in thee periods, the birth pangs, it is not yet the end but by the birth pangs we will know the time is near, in fact at the door step. What signs have there been, here are a few, I appreciate you have already mentioned some, thank you.
In the late 1950's came the shortening of clothing especially low cut tops and shorter skirts.
Also around that time and the early 1960's we saw flower power and Free sex, Free speech also increasing.
The pill became widely used and sex, sex, sex was the thing. Sex outside marriage increased followed not far behind by divorce, divorce, divorce.
Children started to become more disobedient to their parents, teachers and those in authority.
Year on year all these things have continued to increase and worsen, scripture calls it an hardening of hearts, it sure is.
There have always been wars but the numbers have increased, Israel has had 8 since becoming a state and every day seems like another could happen
Scripture is clear in the latter days there will not just be wars, there will also be rumours of wars, every week we her of rumours, threats of wars.
Scripture says there will be an increase in earth quakes, statistic show the number of earth quakes has continued to increase since 1900, getting more frequent and more intense in the last couple of decades.
Scripture says in these times there will be an increase in pestilences, again this is very clear, hospitals talk of super bugs, there is HIV, ebola virus and more.
Scripture says there will be an increase in famines, again some say there has always been famines, true, but they are increasing.
Scripture also tells us that man will go with man and woman with woman, LGBTQ+ Never before has there been such a situation except Sodom and Gomorrah. Jesus said the end times will be as the days of Noah, the time of Noah was the terribly sinful time of Sodom and Gomorrah.
God said after the flood at the time of Noah, never again will I flood the whole world. But scripture prophesies in the end times there will be raging waters in diverse places, we are seeing this all round the world, in places never thought of, flooding in the Sahara dessert, various places in USA, UK and Europe, even Africa, Australia, China and lots more.
The evidence is clear for all to see, but the key that turned in 1948 when Israel became a state again, started the period of birth pains which are at the end of the period, the period before Christ's Return in Glory.
The second most important item to note is that these events, all prophesied events started slowly in 1948 and have picked up speed, become more intense as the years have passed by, at the current time they are increasing at an alarming rate, alarming I would say for those that are not born again, that are not saved.
Jesus is coming again and very soon, he will come like a thief in the night, when we least expect him. We are told, we are warned to be ready, we are to be as the five wise virgins, not the five foolish ones. Not only should we be ready but we should also be asking, who isn't saved? Who doesn't know Jesus yet? Who can I tell, whom can I pray for, which loved ones refuse tom accept Christ, which friend won't listen, we are not to be troubled but pray in faith and believe.
God calls us we do not call him, share God's love and pray, pray, pray,
Lord here our prayers...…………………………… in Jesus name Amen
The harvest is ready but the workers are few. Time is getting short, the birth pangs are increasing in speed and intensity.
In His Love.
Trevor
Active
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2019
- Messages
- 923
I couldn't have put it better myself.
Couldn't have said it better myself brother Paul bless you.
Brother-Paul
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2015
- Messages
- 4,002
Bless you too my friend
We cry 'O Come Lord Jesus' but do not say not yet we have this or that to do, instead we lay at His feet right now, our prayers, for salvation for all lost souls; for the Jews God's chosen people, He has not forgotten nor forsaken them, for the Church, that being the One True Church, born again believers worldwide, of which we are the Bride of Christ waiting for the Groom to come, we pray for salvation for our families and our friends, and for lost souls worldwide. God does not want any to perish.
If we are a husband and parent, with none believing family members, we must 'claim' the salvation of our wife and our children in Jesus Name.
If a wife is saved and the husband is not, the wife takes the role of Spiritual head of the family, she can and must claim her husbands salvation and that of any unbelieving children.
Time is getting short, Jesus gave us the Good News, He also gave us the warnings.
WE MUST ALL - Pray today - tomorrow may be to late.
Jesus loves you Trevor, Bless you my friend.
Trevor
Active
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2019
- Messages
- 923
I do believe that somewhere in scripture we are referred to as branches ingrafted into the vine, which I would assume makes us part of God's people who are Jews, making us spiritual Jews. To be of the same people as our Lord gives me the goose bumps and makes me feel closer. I'd like to present a thought. Recently it occurred to me that my family resides in a state of joy, I'm not saying that we have no problems but when the problems arrive we hand them over to the Lord and the pain is short lived. Many of our neighbours, however, seem to reside in permanent pain causing us to have need to pray often. It came to me that we are citizens of the kingdom of heaven and as such are not of this world. although we reside in the world and so come into contact with the enemy, hence the pain, we are not citizens and so the enemy has no jurisdiction over us. The reason I am mentioning this is that I believe we all need to know who's kingdom we belong to. To know this, I believe, is liberating.
WesleyJordan
Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2019
- Messages
- 23
Brothers and sisters in Christ, be not willingly ignorant of the fact that it grieved the Lord to terrible anger in the days of the kings of Israel, some two to three thousand years ago, when just one evil man would institute the forced infant sacrifice to lesser gods such as Baal and Moloch, by the hands of hundreds of evil men, the tens of thousands of innocent children, who are of the most precious of the Lord’s possessions, thus resulting in the righteous judgement of millions. It must be horrible indeed to have your newborn child snatched up and murdered.
How great then ought the righteous anger of the Lord have grown in this present age, when tens of thousands of evil men have managed to deceive hundreds of millions of both men and women all across the earth into WILLINGLY sacrificing untold multitudes of innocent children DAILY to new gods such as Abortion and Planned Parenthood, who teach the false doctrines of selfishness and fornication and murder? Ought not the Lord be preparing the righteous judgement of billions, as the number of unsatisfied souls of innocent children bringing their just complaint before His throne ever multiplies?
How great then ought the righteous anger of the Lord have grown in this present age, when tens of thousands of evil men have managed to deceive hundreds of millions of both men and women all across the earth into WILLINGLY sacrificing untold multitudes of innocent children DAILY to new gods such as Abortion and Planned Parenthood, who teach the false doctrines of selfishness and fornication and murder? Ought not the Lord be preparing the righteous judgement of billions, as the number of unsatisfied souls of innocent children bringing their just complaint before His throne ever multiplies?
