Armageddon

Eric E Stahl · Nov 16, 2012

jari · Nov 18, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

I don't believe this means the saints but angels of God as the army of heaven.

and i actually believe this means the rapture described in mat 24 when Jesus comes with the angels.

if you read this verse above it says the bride has made her self ready:

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

if christians (the bride) is already in heaven then this doesn't make sense. the bride has to be still on earth because the wedding hasn't happened yet. Rev 19 is talking about the wedding "Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb" (verses 7-9).

Eric E Stahl · Nov 18, 2012

Hi Jari,

The Bride is ready for the marriage. She has been judged for rewards and has received her white linens. Revelation 19:11-21 describes King Jesus who has taken up the rod of iron with which he will rule the earth after he takes back. We are going to be in the army of heaven.

<style>  </style> Habakkuk 3:11–13 KJV
11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine
arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.

We are the anointed.

jari · Nov 18, 2012

Eric i think you missed the part where it says Jesus is going to the marriage. it has not happened yet until chapter 19 of revelation.

Eric E Stahl · Nov 18, 2012

Jair

Later after the marriage between Jesus and the church is over, Jesus leads the anointed saints in the invasion of earth. Remember, the chapter breaks were not part of the first bible.

David777 · Nov 18, 2012

Hello Eric.

Revelations 19
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses,
clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

I see that you assume that the armies that followed
Jesus are comprised of Christians. I am interested
how you reconcile the following verses with that
view.

2 thessalonians 2
7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well
when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels
in flaming fire,

8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those
who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence
of the Lord and from the glory of His power, (this is the wrath of God)

10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled
at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

Matthew 16:27
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels,
and will then repay every man according to his deeds.

Matthew 25:31
When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he
will sit on his glorious throne.

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation,
of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father
with the holy angels.

jari · Nov 18, 2012

Eric it doesn't say these events are inconsistent but rather they seem consistent.

verse 7 states begin of event "the marriage of the Lamb is come".

now after this event is stated to happen its reasonable to expect following scripture to tell more about that event, don't you think so?

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

how can you separate the event in verses 7 - 9 from the event in verses 11 - 12 ?

seems unreasonable to me to separate them. there must be some other reference by which you make the separation?

Eric E Stahl · Nov 18, 2012

jari said:
Eric it doesn't say these events are inconsistent but rather they seem consistent.

verse 7 states begin of event "the marriage of the Lamb is come".

now after this event is stated to happen its reasonable to expect following scripture to tell more about that event, don't you think so?

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

how can you separate the event in verses 7 - 9 from the event in verses 11 - 12 ?

seems unreasonable to me to separate them. there must be some other reference by which you make the separation?

Jari ,verse 11 shows it is a new event being seen.

jari · Nov 19, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
Jari ,verse 11 shows it is a new event being seen.

Actually verse 11 is the vision. About the marriage. Otherwise the preceeding verses would be left hanging there whitout no reason for them to be stated.
For this reason they must be in conjuction.
Firsrt theres the topic then theres the vision.

How can you by other logic say these are seperate ?

Eric E Stahl · Nov 19, 2012

jari · Nov 19, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
<style>  </style> Jari,

If you think these verses describe the marriage feast of the lamb, you have a strange imagination. They are making war not love!
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword

Eric do you believe marriage feast of lamb includes love for unbelievers?

why would God not punish beast and his armies when Jesus returns with heavens armies? (after christians are raptured out of the way)

Eric E Stahl · Nov 19, 2012

Jari,

There are no unbelievers at the marriage feast of the lamb and no love for the unbelievers.

God will punish the beast (666) and his army after the marriage feast.

jari · Nov 20, 2012

Eric you can see rev 19 is only talking about the marriage by comparing the verses 9 & 17.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Joel Green · Nov 20, 2012

David,

Just because all of those verses says He will come with angels, it doesn't mean that the saints will not be with Him as well. I agree with Eric about all of these view points. However, I am not sure if the two-edged sword is the saints or the Word of God which slays the armies during the battles of Armageddon. It sounds reasonable to assume that his viewpoint is correct using Psalms to clarify. I have always wondered why it describes the saints as dressed for battle if they were not going to participate in it. God bless.

Thiscrosshurts · Nov 20, 2012

Why would angels need fine linen if fine linen is the righteousness of the saints?

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

An angel is a messenger so the saints will be the ones to come marching in...on horses.
We are the clouds so coming in the clouds means coming or manifesting in a people.

To think that we will literally kill people is however more than absurd.
Even more absurd is the notion someone would look forward to killing men.

Eric E Stahl · Nov 20, 2012

jari · Nov 21, 2012

I did some study on the white linen thing and it turns out that saints wear robes not white linen.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

white - leukos
robes - stolē

(same as in Rev 6:11 & Rev 7:13 )

Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

fine linen - bussinos
clean - katharos
white - lampros

Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

fine linen - bussinos
clean - katharos
white - leukos

Eric E Stahl · Nov 21, 2012

Jari,

Both are correct.

A white robe can be made of many types of materials such as: linen, cotton, wool and silk.

Eric E Stahl · Nov 21, 2012

jari said:
Eric you can see rev 19 is only talking about the marriage by comparing the verses 9 & 17.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Jari,

Verse 9 describes the saints eating.

In verse 17 the animals are eating dead people at Armageddon.

jari · Nov 21, 2012

it depends on the way wish to look in to the symbolism. im not convinced these would be separate because of he symbolism.

and if saints are heavens armies what are the angels then? and does heaven not have armies now?

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