Armageddon

jari · Nov 21, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
Jari,

Both are correct.

A white robe can be made of many types of materials such as: linen, cotton, wool and silk.

it doesnt say its the same.. seems to me theres difference.

Thiscrosshurts · Nov 21, 2012

it depends on the way wish to look in to the symbolism. im not convinced these would be separate because of he symbolism.

I agree jari,but since it is the revelation of Jesus Christ then we should try to understand how things look from where he stands.
If fine linen is the righteousness of the saints and righteousness is not visible to the natural eyes then they would be naked if this is all taking place in time and space.

and if saints are heavens armies what are the angels then? and does heaven not have armies now?

That would reasonably be the next question and that's why I mentioned the clouds in my previous post.
Scripture says with 2 or 3 witnesses let everything be established.
Speaking of witnesses there will be a CLOUD of them.
Angel=messenger a fallen angel then would be a false message or lie,lies have a Father.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

There are many references to this cloud of witnesses.
When he returns he will be coming in the clouds.
With all his saints.
The AIR refers to Satan's kingdom.He is the prince of the power of the air.
If you study cloud,clouds,witness,witnesses and air this pattern shows continuity.
The verse does not even mention heaven so how can anyone say AIR is referencing heaven.

Study the clouds in scripture and you find some interesting things.

Psalms 36:5. Thy mercy, O LORD, is in the heavens; and thy faithfulness reacheth unto the clouds.
(is this saying there is a limit to his faithfulness?Or are they more than just clouds)

Psalms 57:10. For thy mercy is great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds.(he sure must like water vapor,although I can't fathom why water vapor might need mercy.)

Psalms 68:34. Ascribe ye strength unto God: his excellency is over Israel, and his strength is in the clouds.(strength in clouds?)

Psalms 108:4. For thy mercy is great above the heavens: and thy truth reacheth unto the clouds. (ok,I'm getting jealous of these clouds,they are getting the stuff I thought was for the saints)

Nahum 1:3. The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.(wasn't man made out of dust?)

Matthew 26:64. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.( doesn't scripture say we ARE seated in heavenly places with Christ Jesus.)

Does scripture say you have died and are now raised in him?
Does a "born again one" qualify as a new creature IN Christ?
Died with him,raised with him,born of heaven
Eph 2:6

We live in the air now.
Who is the god of this world.
Who is the prince of the power of the air.
We already live in Satan's Kingdom,how else would he have temped Christ with it.
Meeting HIM in the air could well be a cryptic portrayal of
the ultimate Domination of the air realm by Jesus and his cloud of witnesses.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Deuteronomy 33:2And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

jari · Nov 21, 2012

Thiscrosshurts do you believe there are no angels that are celestial beings?

i believe the Holy angels as in celestial spirit beings is what scripture is talking about, as the God's army.

Psa 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

you cannot find anywhere in scripture statements that God's people (humans) would do any concrete judgement or actions of high power like angels can do.
it is always the angels who carry out these type of actions of power:

Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Thiscrosshurts · Nov 21, 2012

Thiscrosshurts do you believe there are no angels that are celestial beings?

i believe the Holy angels as in celestial spirit beings is what scripture is talking about, as the God's army.

What I believe is subject to change with maturity in understanding the scriptures and God's divine plan.
I do have a belief goal though:
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

We would need to look "before the foundation of the world" for clues as to exactly what a celestial being is.
It would be arrogant of me to tell you what I think it all means because you need no man teach you and you would not believe me anyway(I didn't believe me either) so all I can do is give you some digging and mining tips.

#1 you need no man teach you
#2 There is only one Holy Spirit (so there can only be one truth)
#3 if both sides of an argument have merit but are opposed, the truth may be "something we have not considered".
#4 "something we have not considered" is like having a warehouse of questions and clues, like a detective.
#5 pray about those holes(questions surrounding clues and clues surrounding questions in our understanding)
#6 find a productive mountain and sink a mine shaft.(understanding etymology,typology,history,location and society systems.
#7 Get tools and dig.I use Bible.cc

Dig this:
Job 28:1“There is a mine for silver and a place where gold is refined.
2 Iron is taken from the earth,and copper is smelted from ore.
3 Man puts an end to the darkness;he searches the farthest recessesfor ore in the blackest darkness.
4 Far from where people dwell he cuts a shaft,in places forgotten by the foot of man;

I have a question?

Job 38:21 Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years!

Was God being sarcastic ?

I have an answer but I want to see if I am hearing the Holy Spirit so I want others to take the same journey to see what they find and I can then know it was from the Holy Spirit.

jari · Nov 21, 2012

Thiscrosshurts said:
I have a question?

Job 38:21 Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years!

Was God being sarcastic ?

I have an answer but I want to see if I am hearing the Holy Spirit so I want others to take the same journey to see what they find and I can then know it was from the Holy Spirit.

probably wasn't sarcastic. theres more likely a teaching than sarcasm. we may not just see the teaching so we assume sarcasm.

Thiscrosshurts · Nov 21, 2012

probably wasn't sarcastic. theres more likely a teaching than sarcasm. we may not just see the teaching so we assume sarcasm.

I agree,that was my exact conclusion,I am ok with leaving it unanswered for now because this is bonus knowledge.For years I simply discounted it because I assumed something about God because I heard it from a man.
Some of my best answers are questions so I collect them and mine them for gems or keys.
Some scripture seems to be key to opening up gaps in our understanding that only hearing the Holy Spirit can fill.

Far from where people dwell he cuts a shaft,in places forgotten by the foot of man;

It almost sounds like we are digging for a memory..

Eric E Stahl · Nov 21, 2012

jari said:
it doesnt say its the same.. seems to me theres difference.

Thiscrosshurts · Nov 21, 2012

After we receive our rewards, others will know our faithfulness on earth by the brightness of our robes. Isn’t that interesting and motivating.

Daniel 12:2–3 KJV
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

I like that Eric,maybe we will kill them with kindness and the glory of God.

David777 · Nov 21, 2012

Hello all.

Have been occupied with other matters.

If you folk do not mind, could you please read
the following quotes as they do indicate only one
return of Christ on one unique day.

Matthew 16:27
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels,
and will then repay every man according to his deeds.

Jesus returns with the angels.

Matthew 24:23-30
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon
will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens
will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the
tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of
heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet
call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the
other.

This is clearly judgement day, also we are not with Him until
this day has arrived. We are not with Him until He arrives as the
last line states.

Matthew 16:27
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels,
and will then repay every man according to his deeds.

Jesus returns with the angels.

Matthew 25:31
When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on
his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate
people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Jesus arrives with all the angels, please note that the separation
of the righteous and unrighteous occurs on this day.

Acts 1
"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same
Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you
have seen him go into heaven."

One departure, one arrival with the angels.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of
an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise
first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the
clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Christ returns to gather both the dead and alive to Himself.

2 thessalonians 2
7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well
when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels
in flaming fire,

2 thessalonians 2
10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled
at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

On that day.

2 Peter 3:10-12
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass
away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and
the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be
dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God...

The return of Christ is on one day "the day of the Lord".
The heavens and the earth are incinerated on that day.
We look forward to this day as the last line states, it is
the exact day when we are gathered together to be with
Christ.

David777 · Nov 21, 2012

White linen, the righteous acts of the saints.

Matthew 13:43
Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN
in the kingdom of their Father...

Thiscrosshurts · Nov 21, 2012

Hey David I agree that there is only one coming but everything has to fit together.
You have to fit these in:

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Deuteronomy 33:2And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

I know we can point to the exodus but it is a pattern and coming out of Egypt is pivotal.

White linen, the righteous acts of the saints.

dikaiōmata=an ordinance, a sentence of acquittal or condemnation, a righteous deed

Translations differ,nevertheless the "of the saints" part says 1 point for "the saints come marching in".
Which by the way does not require two separate events in time.
If the clouds represent the saints then there is just as much evidence that it is the saints as messenger/angel/ministers as flaming fire.

If you consider the weight of evidence about the possibility of the clouds being the saints themselves
then we would have to fit those and if we don't how will we explain all the descriptions of clouds.

I am not on one side or the other in this discussion I remain in the"something we have not considered" camp.
So I am here to cheer both sides and glean from the contrast.

And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet
call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the
other.

This is tough to reconcile with either version,it appears the elect are scatter throughout heaven.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass
away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and
the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be
dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God...

This would be the end of heavens and earth so it is referring to the last day "The Day of the Lord" which is The Lord. Jesus.

David777 · Nov 22, 2012

Thiscrosshurts said:
Hey David I agree that there is only one coming but everything has to fit together.
You have to fit these in:

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Deuteronomy 33:2And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

I know we can point to the exodus but it is a pattern and coming out of Egypt is pivotal.

dikaiōmata=an ordinance, a sentence of acquittal or condemnation, a righteous deed

Translations differ,nevertheless the "of the saints" part says 1 point for "the saints come marching in".
Which by the way does not require two separate events in time.
If the clouds represent the saints then there is just as much evidence that it is the saints as messenger/angel/ministers as flaming fire.

If you consider the weight of evidence about the possibility of the clouds being the saints themselves
then we would have to fit those and if we don't how will we explain all the descriptions of clouds.

I am not on one side or the other in this discussion I remain in the"something we have not considered" camp.
So I am here to cheer both sides and glean from the contrast.

This is tough to reconcile with either version,it appears the elect are scatter throughout heaven.

This would be the end of heavens and earth so it is referring to the last day "The Day of the Lord" which is The Lord. Jesus.

Hello Thiscrosshurts, thanks for the reply.

I agree with your position, I am supporting the post tribulation position
in order to better understand the view point.

Though it appears to be very strong it does have weakness as Rev ch19
illustrates.

As far as the "clouds" are concerned me thinks the evidence is weak for
strato-christian formation.

Anyway, I look forward to more opposition on the post trib front line.

Most of your posts are very interesting to read, thanks again.

Thiscrosshurts · Nov 22, 2012

As far as the "clouds" are concerned me thinks the evidence is weak for
strato-christian formation.

Haha
Don't put away that umbrella just yet.

Proverbs 25:14 Like clouds and wind without rain is a man who boasts of gifts he does not give.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

2 Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

These all speak of men who's words do not give life giving words that the seeds that the sower left so desperately need for growth.
I feel safe to say there would also be clouds with wind and rain(spirit and word).
Those born of heaven come from above and they are seated in Christ and through their counterpart here on earth deliver rain until a river of life forms.

The verses below are from the living translation and other translations use omens,times or sorcery
2 Kings 21:6 and he hath caused his son to pass through fire, and observed clouds, and used enchantment, and dealt with a familiar spirit and wizards; he hath multiplied to do the evil thing in the eyes of Jehovah -- to provoke to anger.

Leviticus 19:26 'Ye do not eat with the blood; ye do not enchant, nor observe clouds.

The point is why would clouds be connected to sorcery?
Do clouds reveal a story?

Let's consider angels in 3 translations:
Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Hebrews 1:14 Therefore, angels are only servants--spirits sent to care for people who will inherit salvation.
Hebrews 1:14 All of them are spirits on a divine mission, sent to serve those who are about to inherit salvation, aren't they?

It's not overwhelming evidence but it plugs many holes and opens new ones.
Anyway it's part of a larger set of questions and possible clues or connections

Having to do with "before the foundation of the world"stuff.

David777 · Nov 22, 2012

Thiscrosshurts said:
Haha
Don't put away that umbrella just yet.
Proverbs 25:14 Like clouds and wind without rain is a man who boasts of gifts he does not give.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

2 Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

These all speak of men who's words do not give life giving words that the seeds that the sower left so desperately need for growth.
I feel safe to say there would also be clouds with wind and rain(spirit and word).
Those born of heaven come from above and they are seated in Christ and through their counterpart here on earth deliver rain until a river of life forms.

The verses below are from the living translation and other translations use omens,times or sorcery
2 Kings 21:6 and he hath caused his son to pass through fire, and observed clouds, and used enchantment, and dealt with a familiar spirit and wizards; he hath multiplied to do the evil thing in the eyes of Jehovah -- to provoke to anger.

Leviticus 19:26 'Ye do not eat with the blood; ye do not enchant, nor observe clouds.

The point is why would clouds be connected to sorcery?
Do clouds reveal a story?

Let's consider angels in 3 translations:
Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Hebrews 1:14 Therefore, angels are only servants--spirits sent to care for people who will inherit salvation.
Hebrews 1:14 All of them are spirits on a divine mission, sent to serve those who are about to inherit salvation, aren't they?

It's not overwhelming evidence but it plugs many holes and opens new ones.
Anyway it's part of a larger set of questions and possible clues or connections

Having to do with "before the foundation of the world"stuff.

Hello again Thiscrosshurts.

Clouds bring rain which waters crops, without rain the story ends.

These societies were agricultural, rain was everything.

Cloud formations with no rain was a nightmare for these societies.

Hence, the imagery used in your quotes was very real to the audience.

Not so applicable to our societies today, thus the impact is lower.

Leviticus 19:26 'Ye do not eat with the blood; ye do not enchant, nor observe clouds.

Have ye never observed the clouds thiscrosshurts and seen the future?

We read the entrails of animals, tarot cards, scatter bones and look upward
and read the clouds. Fairly obvious me thinks.
Fair weather ahead.

Signing off thiscrosshurts.

Eric E Stahl · Nov 22, 2012

To all,

<style>  </style> Jesus will come at least three times

1.
Jesus will come to the atmosphere of earth at the time of the rapture. This appearance is described in 2 Thessalonians 4:13-5:12 where Jesus called out his believers before the antichrist was given power and God poured out his wrath.

2.
Jesus will come to earth at the middle of the tribulation to help the army of Israel escape from the antichrist when he calls all the armies of earth to attack the Jews who will not worship him. Lord Jesus will touch down on the Mount of Olives and divide it.
124 AMERICA’S LAST WARNING

Zechariah 14:1–5a KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided
in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal.

Zechariah saw a vision of Jewish people being rescued. In the middle of the tribulation, the Antichrist will come against Israel because they will not worship him or his image. As the armies of the world close in on the remnant of Israel, everything looks lost and hopeless.
However, at that time, the Lord Jesus will help Israel by making a way of escape. Jesus will split the Mount of Olives from east to west so that it forms a great valley when the two halves of the Mount of Olives move north and south. Israel will flee down that valley to the east while the armies of the world are stranded on the top of the Mount of Olives and all around Jerusalem.

Revelation 12:13–14 KJV
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he
persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Before the Devil is cast to the earth in the middle of the tribulation, God will have had part of Israel rescued by the great eagle that will come from the other end of the earth to take a prey safely, according to Isaiah 5:24–30. God will have America, the last days’ superpower and daughter of Babylon, rescue the women and children from Israel. The Jewish men will stay in Israel to fight the end-time war till they flee to the river Arnon (Isaiah 16:3).
Revelation 12:15–17 KJV
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

THE GREAT TRIBULATION 125

Satan will send a great army of soldiers to pursue the fleeing Jews. Do you remember what happened to the king of Egypt’s armies when they chased Israel through the divided Red Sea in the book of Exodus? (See Exodus 14:21–31.) Something similar is going to happen again. When the army of the Antichrist follows Israel down the valley, the Mount of Olives will swallow them, infuriating Satan.

Isaiah 16:1–5 KJV
1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
2 For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.
3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Jesus, the Lamb of God, is going to sit on the throne of Israel. Jesus comes to Israel to split the Mount of Olives so that Israel can flee from the dragon and the Antichrist’s army. Israel will go east, down the Lord’s valley, cross the Jordan River, turn right, and travel about one-third of the way down the other side of the Dead Sea to the river ford or the river crossing on the Arnon River in the country of Jordan and stay with the survivors of Moab.

3.
God will send Jesus and the army of heaven to judge the antichrist and take control of earth at the end of the tribulation.

Revelation 19:11–21 KJV
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING
OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

John saw the future invasion of earth by Jesus and the saints in the army of heaven.

jari · Nov 22, 2012

there are some major flaws with that eric. first you would have to prove that israel's people doesn't take the mark. but more importantly you would have to prove that they are witness of Jesus Christ, which they aren't right now but they are just jews. because it says in Revelation the beast slayed people over their testimony of Jesus. Rev 20:4

second thing you are wrong is that God would take church out before anti-christ. it says in 2Thess 2 that he doesn't. so please get those simple facts straight before continuing...

Thiscrosshurts · Nov 22, 2012

Have ye never observed the clouds thiscrosshurts and seen the future?

We read the entrails of animals, tarot cards, scatter bones and look upward
and read the clouds. Fairly obvious me thinks.
Fair weather ahead.

I see you don't believe in symbolism so put away the umbrella but keep your two edged sword handy
in case you meet a 7 headed 10 horned dragon.

David777 · Nov 22, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
Zechariah 14:1–5a KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided
in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal.

Zechariah saw a vision of Jewish people being rescued. In the middle of the tribulation, the Antichrist will come against Israel because they will not worship him or his image. As the armies of the world close in on the remnant of Israel, everything looks lost and hopeless.
However, at that time, the Lord Jesus will help Israel by making a way of escape. Jesus will split the Mount of Olives from east to west so that it forms a great valley when the two halves of the Mount of Olives move north and south. Israel will flee down that valley to the east while the armies of the world are stranded on the top of the Mount of Olives and all around Jerusalem.

Hello Eric.

I was reading post #35, what follows is your
interpretation of the prophetic writings of the
minor prophet Zechariah.

Eric, you only quoted one quarter of Zechariah 14.
This enabled you to support your mid tribulation
viewpoint of course. If you had quoted the rest of line 5
from Zechariah chapter 14 you would have noticed
a rather different interpretation.

Here is line 5 in all its fullness.

5 You will flee by the valley of My mountains,
for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel;
yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake
in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord,
my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!

This line concerns the "day of the Lord" Eric, Christ
returns on this day. Why did you omit the rest of line 5?

David777 · Nov 22, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
To all,

<style>  </style> Jesus will come at least three times

1.
Jesus will come to the atmosphere of earth at the time of the rapture. This appearance is described in 2 Thessalonians 4:13-5:12 where Jesus called out his believers before the antichrist was given power and God poured out his wrath.

Eric, there is no 2 Thessalonians 4 so I will assume
you are referring to 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17?

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

The arrival of Jesus in the above quotation is clearly
the last day, the day of the Lord. You must read
2 Thessalonians 2 in order to fully comprehend this event.

2 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

Eric E Stahl · Nov 22, 2012

David,

The reason I didn't quote that part of the verse is the word then. The then happens three and a half times or years later according to Revelation 12:13-14

Revelation 12:13–14 KJV
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he
persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Before the Devil is cast to the earth in the middle of the tribulation, God will have had part of Israel rescued by the great eagle that will come from the other end of the earth to take a prey safely, according to Isaiah 5:24–30. God will have America, the last days’ superpower and daughter of Babylon, rescue the women and children from Israel. The Jewish men will stay in Israel to fight the end-time war till they flee to the river Arnon (Isaiah 16:3).

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