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BAD Samaritan stops BAD guy

Luke 8:15 “… these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”

Now there is nothing that says they were made to believe first.

You state that "there is nothing that says they were made to believe first" then you say previously, in Luke "These are the ones who heard the word,,".

So doesn't the Bible tell us that faith comes by hearing, the hearing of the word of God?

If that is what your Bible says as well, then of course they were made to believe, because they heard the word, just as you quoted, and faith(believing), comes by hearing the word.

So I'm confused about what you are trying to communicate when you say it doesn't mention them believing.
 
People are hindered from being saved if they are not taught what to do to get saved.
Jesus is the Truth, and we are to know His Truth.
Let me help you out, respectfully,

Who is the audience?
The audience was an "expert " we are told in the law.

You state that people are hindered from believing if they are not taught what to do.

Beloved brother, whom I ❤, you are missing the point here. Remember this guy was an expert, and he according to Jesus, Himself, answered the question correctly on how to be saved. He said love the Lord your God with all...... and love your neighbor as yourself. "

We are told that, Jesus told Him that you have answered correctly, do this and you will have eternal life. So respectfully, you are mistaken when you state that he didn't know what needed to be done. Again, He was an expert in the law, and Jesus said he answered correctly, so he did know.

But we are told that we wanted to justify himself , meaning he wanted to make himself look good, so that is why he asked, "Well who is my neighbor?", and Jesus give the story to humble him, and show him what he lacked.

His lacking was not in the knowledge of what needed to be done, but his lacking was in being self-righteous and trying to exalt himself.

Jesus answers questions based on who is asking the question and the audience.
 
Of course he is.
Jesus did NOT come to save the Samaritans along with the lost sheep of Israel. They could not be saved until later, like the Gentiles and the Jews who rejected him.

Do you not ever wonder that you were taught wrong by the preachers you learned from?

Everything about God is deep.
No such thing as taking it too deep.

The point is to you and ploughboy who are taught to believe no one can do good.

I have proven with scripture that people can do good and some are even called good men.

That is a little off point.
The point is, Lutherans and Calvinists teach things that go against what Jesus says.
There are good men, and no scripture anywhere says a person is saved then they believe and obey.
God does not save unbelievers.
He does not save unrepentant unbelievers.

People are hindered from being saved if they are not taught what to do to get saved.
Jesus is the Truth, and we are to know His Truth.

I can show you with scripture that what I teach is about the Rock.

I understand what you are saying, I really do. However, the Truth does matter, agree? You can easily admit that you are a Lutheran?
I am a follower of Jesus,
the world will call me a Christian,
Jesus now calls me friend and an adopted son and later will call me a good and faithful servant, my local body of Christ calls me fellow Methodist, and if I fit into that box for you, you my beloved ❤ brother can call me a Lutheran.

To channel @PloughBoy , you can call me what you want, just don't call me late for dinner. Or put another way, if my theological doctrines fit into a box that has a given label that fits best, feel free to call me such, what matters most is that I'm called to meet my Lord and Savior in the air for the marriage supper of the lamb where the feast will be amazing. I hope they won't mind if I bring my hot sauce bottle.
 
I understand what you are saying, I really do. However, the Truth does matter, agree? You can easily admit that you are a Lutheran?
Yes of course Truth matters, yes. Totally.

And you understand that when Jesus answers a question he is speaking to the one asking the question and addressing their heart condition.

Truth matters, but when they asked Jesus whether to pay taxes to Ceasar, Jesus didn't start talking about the truth of the corruption of the Roman government. Truth matters, of course, but when Pilate ask Jesus , initially if He was the King of the Jews, initially, Jesus kept quiet because He knew his audience [ Pilate] really wasn't asking to know. However , when Jesus healed the leper, he revealed Himself quickly as the messiah and told this man not to tell others.

So yes, of course truth matters, but all truth isn't shared in every question, because every question is not an opportunity to share all truth, but an opportunity to connect with the heart of the one asking the question.

So what is your point , of stating Truth Matters in light of what I shared?
 
I am a follower of Jesus,
the world will call me a Christian,
Jesus now calls me friend and an adopted son and later will call me a good and faithful servant, my local body of Christ calls me fellow Methodist, and if I fit into that box for you, you my beloved ❤ brother can call me a Lutheran.

To channel @PloughBoy , you can call me what you want, just don't call me late for dinner. Or put another way, if my theological doctrines fit into a box that has a given label that fits best, feel free to call me such, what matters most is that I'm called to meet my Lord and Savior in the air for the marriage supper of the lamb where the feast will be amazing. I hope they won't mind if I bring my hot sauce bottle.
Better to be addressed by how Jesus calls you rather than what fellow church members do.

Indeed, you may find Jesus calling you to depart from what fellow church members teaches like believing Christ's Presence is in the bread & wine at "holy" communion when He does not need to be when He is already within you since salvation and so do heed the warning about those who preach another Jesus or another spirit to receive when communion is only to be done in remembrance of Him as proclaiming the Lord's death for what He has done in having saved us since we had believed in him at the calling of the gospel. That is what is worth remembering at communion.

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

I'd say Martin Luther did not finish pruning all dead works from Catholicism when the Luteran church came to be. They should have dropped the term sacrament and "holy" from communion if they wish to be Biblical about what communion is actually for.

I know this is out of place but... He did say to do these things even out of season; hence off topic.

2 Timothy 4:1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

So do not see communion as a means to come to Him in receiving Him again when He has been in you and with you always since salvation. That is the faith you need to defend and keep and that means not taking communion as if receiving Him again but only remembering Him in proclaiming the Lord's death that it is finished till He comes.

That is all I have to say on the matter of faith. Thank you for your patience and service in the Lord. May He bless you & keep you. May He shine His face upon you & give you His peace.
 
Indeed, you may find Jesus calling you to depart from what fellow church members teaches like believing Christ's Presence is in the bread & wine at "holy" communion when He does not need to be when He is already within you since salvation and so do heed the warning
Whoa, whoa whoa,

Yeah, that is not what I believe. I do not believe that Jesus presence is in the bread and juice.

But I hear you saying depart from others who believe this. Are you saying this is what @PloughBoy believes? And if not him, then whom are you suggesting I depart from because they believe that?
 
You said, "The way I understand the scripture is that no one is saved because they are good."

I then gave you scriptures that prove that the message is sent to those who are good in that they obey and fear God, and, that God accepts those who fear Him and do what is right.

You stated that, "I was saying that Jesus said there are good people, and they are the ones who get saved". Thanks for sharing that perspective.

The way I understand the scripture is that no one is saved because they are good. My understanding and belief is that we are saved in Christ alone, by grace alone, and through faith alone.
You then said, "No where is the being good mentioned in what I shared above, Jesus, faith, and grace."

I explained that you are saying what false teachers say, as is evidenced by the scriptures I gave saying contrary.


No where is the being good mentioned in what I shared above, Jesus, faith, and grace.


See Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Acts 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

Acts 10:35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.
You state that "there is nothing that says they were made to believe first" then you say previously, in Luke "These are the ones who heard the word,,".
Jesus explains that those with good hearts hear the word and bear fruit.
Nowhere anywhere in the Bible does it say what false teachers say, and that is that there are no good people and that all humans are only evil. There is also no scripture anywhere that says what false teachers say about the Holy Spirit entering the person and making them believe, and or saving them first, and or giving a special enabling.
So doesn't the Bible tell us that faith comes by hearing, the hearing of the word of God?
That is right.
We don't get faith in a supernatural way, we get faith in a very human way, and that is by hearing the supernatural message.
No such thing what the many teach about no one can believe and obey God without an enabling.

Here are more scriptures for you to consider:

Luke 8:15 “… these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”

Matthew 12:35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.

John 18:37 "You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

John 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.


Jesus explains to us how there are good people who do what is right and they are the ones who listens to him.
If that is what your Bible says as well, then of course they were made to believe, because they heard the word, just as you quoted, and faith(believing), comes by hearing the word.
No way is that being made to believe. No such thing in God's Word as God making those who believe capable.

So I'm confused about what you are trying to communicate when you say it doesn't mention them believing.
I hope I have explained it so that you can understand better what I am saying. If not, then I hope we can continue to discuss it.
 
Let me help you out, respectfully,

Who is the audience?
The audience was an "expert " we are told in the law.

You state that people are hindered from believing if they are not taught what to do.

Beloved brother, whom I ❤, you are missing the point here. Remember this guy was an expert, and he according to Jesus, Himself, answered the question correctly on how to be saved. He said love the Lord your God with all...... and love your neighbor as yourself. "

We are told that, Jesus told Him that you have answered correctly, do this and you will have eternal life. So respectfully, you are mistaken when you state that he didn't know what needed to be done. Again, He was an expert in the law, and Jesus said he answered correctly, so he did know.
You are saying that because I said, "People are hindered from being saved if they are not taught what to do to get saved.
Jesus is the Truth, and we are to know His Truth."

Not sure how you think I am missing a point when I am speaking about more than just a man who knew God before Jesus even came. I am talking about false teachers and hindering people from being saved, and about scriptures that prove the there are good people and that it is to them who get saved and bear fruit.

Jesus tells us how to have a heart that he saves.
He tells us why he doesn't save some and why he saves others, and no reason ever is because he gave them a special enabling first.
But we are told that we wanted to justify himself , meaning he wanted to make himself look good, so that is why he asked, "Well who is my neighbor?", and Jesus give the story to humble him, and show him what he lacked.

His lacking was not in the knowledge of what needed to be done, but his lacking was in being self-righteous and trying to exalt himself.

Jesus answers questions based on who is asking the question and the audience.
Jesus told the rich man that he lacked something because God in the flesh was in front of that man and he didn't want to give up his wealth and become a traveling minister to the New Covenant with Jesus.
Jesus doesn't tell us all to do that, but Jesus knew the rich man loved his riches more.
 
I am a follower of Jesus,
However, you are a follower of Martin Luther.
I am showing you the scriptures that plainly go against some things that Luther taught.
I understand deeply how hard it is to realize you believe something that is wrong, but I am not telling you anything that I didn't have to do, and more than once. I spent many years of my life believing in the false Catholic denomination, and then years searching for God in other denominations in which I dedicated much of my life and studies to only to find out it was false teachings. I go only by the Bible now and only want to help others to see that we don't need denominations and teachings from other people and how to make Jesus the Teacher.

the world will call me a Christian,
Jesus now calls me friend and an adopted son and later will call me a good and faithful servant, my local body of Christ calls me fellow Methodist, and if I fit into that box for you, you my beloved ❤ brother can call me a Lutheran.
I want you to know that I love hearing that you have love for me, and that I love you too.
 
Is it your belief that Lutherans will not make it into heaven?
No, I don't believe that.
My parents passed away as Catholics, and believe they are with the Lord.
To me, though, knowing God's Truth was and is more important to me than anything.
I want God's Truth and not man's truth.
The Bible says Satan ensnares people to preach false doctrines.
 
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Yes of course Truth matters, yes. Totally.

And you understand that when Jesus answers a question he is speaking to the one asking the question and addressing their heart condition.

Truth matters, but when they asked Jesus whether to pay taxes to Ceasar, Jesus didn't start talking about the truth of the corruption of the Roman government. Truth matters, of course, but when Pilate ask Jesus , initially if He was the King of the Jews, initially, Jesus kept quiet because He knew his audience [ Pilate] really wasn't asking to know. However , when Jesus healed the leper, he revealed Himself quickly as the messiah and told this man not to tell others.

So yes, of course truth matters, but all truth isn't shared in every question, because every question is not an opportunity to share all truth, but an opportunity to connect with the heart of the one asking the question.

So what is your point , of stating Truth Matters in light of what I shared?
When Jesus came and had his ministry on earth, he came first for the lost sheep of Israel. Not all Jews were called the lost sheep of Israel. The Jews might have followed the law as was given from God to Moses, but the old law was not based on faith, it was based on the works of the law, which are the purification/ceremonial works. Some Jews had faith in God and some did not. God did not like it that some of the Jews sinned, were not really sorry for their sins, but did the purification works and were called children of God. When Jesus had his earthly ministry, he came to teach the New Covenant that would be based on faith. God at that time cut off and hardened the Jews who did not already have faith in Him. Jesus said when he is lifted up from the earth (crucified) then all could come to him to be saved...all, even the Jews who had been cut off and hardened, even the Gentiles could be saved through Jesus after he came first for the lost sheep, the people who already belonged to God by faith.
 
Better to be addressed by how Jesus calls you rather than what fellow church members do.

Indeed, you may find Jesus calling you to depart from what fellow church members teaches like believing Christ's Presence is in the bread & wine at "holy" communion when He does not need to be when He is already within you since salvation and so do heed the warning about those who preach another Jesus or another spirit to receive when communion is only to be done in remembrance of Him as proclaiming the Lord's death for what He has done in having saved us since we had believed in him at the calling of the gospel. That is what is worth remembering at communion.

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

I'd say Martin Luther did not finish pruning all dead works from Catholicism when the Luteran church came to be. They should have dropped the term sacrament and "holy" from communion if they wish to be Biblical about what communion is actually for.

I know this is out of place but... He did say to do these things even out of season; hence off topic.

2 Timothy 4:1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

So do not see communion as a means to come to Him in receiving Him again when He has been in you and with you always since salvation. That is the faith you need to defend and keep and that means not taking communion as if receiving Him again but only remembering Him in proclaiming the Lord's death that it is finished till He comes.

That is all I have to say on the matter of faith. Thank you for your patience and service in the Lord. May He bless you & keep you. May He shine His face upon you & give you His peace.
That was some good information that you gave! Really good things that needed to be said. I like that especially about preaching the word in season and out of season.

I always say too that Luther didn't go far enough with the Catholics, like you said about the "Holy Communion" with the bread and wine, also, the false infant baptisms.

Luther didn't go far enough and then he added some false teachings, mistakes that I hope you consider not to go by, and that is faith alone and God having to give a special enabling.
 
@Jesus_is_LORD
"The world will be the world and act like the world should act," - That' not a detailed, coherent sentence. The first parts is simply the obvious and stating it is an attempt at being "cultured". Who has the authority on this planet to decide that? No one.

"The Whole world and everything in it is “Corrupted” and corruption will act corrupted. So we are the children that cannot be deceive, because The Word of GOD is our Lamp as we walk in this world." - Another statement that's going to confuse. No one talks like that. Given the Bible was written and done with no new info then it's up to us to understand it well before we start teaching others. By all means focus on a section but it needs clarification.
No matter how one wants to spin it, you can't answer any question with a Bible verse and expect someone to get something out of it believer or not. It must be broken down and relayed effectively.

"If anyone think they can improve this world they need to stop reading other books and pickup a KJV or A-earlier “RSV” or “ASV” and close the door of their home and Saturate themselves into The TRUTH of GOD’s Word and turn not to the right or The Left. That the only thing rings in their souls is The WORD and not The Interpretation thoughts of another man. " - I agree. Ignoring the problems and shutting oneself off isn't going to solve problems nor make one's place in this world better.
God/Jesus didn't make us doormats. God gave His angels weapons and armor b/c He knows you don't fight evil with "tolerance, understanding, and feelings". Realistically, many are too far gone. It's easy to see if you get away from anything mainstream, 99% of world government, radio, and profit driven news and media companies.
 
Thanks for sharing.

I see this all as signs of the times and we are to lean on Him for help to leave this life when the Bridegroom comes because like it or not, America will fall along with the rest of the western hemisphere after the rapture event.
Not just Him but each other.
When faced with something on a level they can't effect many will be unable to handle it and you know what they'll do.
 
Whoa, whoa whoa,

Yeah, that is not what I believe. I do not believe that Jesus presence is in the bread and juice.

But I hear you saying depart from others who believe this. Are you saying this is what @PloughBoy believes? And if not him, then whom are you suggesting I depart from because they believe that?
No, sorry if I was implying Ploughboy but I was just going by what you had posted about fellow Lutherans and fellow Methodists in what they would say of you.

The Lutherans for starters and tragically enough, I was visiting a Methodist church that did communion in that manner. I had abstained from that communion. Could not believed at the time that they would carry on Catholic traditions being a Protestant church and all, but later on I had discovered that Martin Luther did not prune away all things that are the dead works of Catholicism, and he should have.

Anyway, I am glad that you do not take communion like that, but you may want to ask questions the next time you take communion with Methodists or Lutherans and/or listen to how they take communion for them.

My Presbyterian church used to start communion service with "We come into His Presence today..." and I never thought once about it but it hit me since Catholics were known to visit the church that they probably do not see how we take communion any different than they do when that former church started communion off like that; and they did called it "holy" communion too. So I did not take communion then either. Eventually I dropped membership with the Presbytery and left the church wen they became the center for Promise Keepers' movement in the valley and as much as I did tried to warn them, with so many Freemason members in the church, I can see why they swept that under the rug also .

There is no getting the truth out in a church run by red tape that prohibits the time to address major issues of faith. Keeping members was more important than keeping the faith and so I had left.
 
That was some good information that you gave! Really good things that needed to be said. I like that especially about preaching the word in season and out of season.

I always say too that Luther didn't go far enough with the Catholics, like you said about the "Holy Communion" with the bread and wine, also, the false infant baptisms.

Luther didn't go far enough and then he added some false teachings, mistakes that I hope you consider not to go by,
The one below is not a mistake.
and that is faith alone and God having to give a special enabling.
It is written that the just shall live by faith, brother. If you cannot give an example for that verse to be true in your life, then you need to reconsider your teachings with Him at that throne of grace... and that throne is of grace, brother.
 
Not just Him but each other.
When faced with something on a level they can't effect many will be unable to handle it and you know what they'll do.
It is always good to build each other up in the faith as we see the day coming all the more. May the Lord cause the increase here at Talk Jesus in getting us ready as well as getting us to be willing to go too.
 
You said, "The way I understand the scripture is that no one is saved because they are good."

I then gave you scriptures that prove that the message is sent to those who are good in that they obey and fear God, and, that God accepts those who fear Him and do what is right.
Thanks for the reply and the opportunity to bring clarity.

Yes, I stated that no one is "good" and later as you shared and I clarified, distinguishing between the good of justification and the good of sanctification.

I stated that when I mentioned no one being good, I was speaking of the source, which is God. All goodness comes from God and yes, we can indeed be good if we tap into the source, but apart from God, we cannot.

The first time we were called good was in the garden of Eden, where God said very He created was very good

After sin, we were no longer good, which is why we need to reconnect to the source, the source of goodness, which is God.

Any questions?
 
Jesus explains that those with good hearts hear the word and bear fruit.
Nowhere anywhere in the Bible does it say what false teachers say, and that is that there are no good people and that all humans are only evil.
I may be wrong, but it appears that you may have not read the whole Bible. Have you?

In light of your comment above, what is your interpretation of this verse Jeremiah 17:9 -- "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

And this verse:

Roman's 12:5 ": “Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned….."
 
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