Can you please furnish scriptures that state Jesus and or His Power can be experienced via the scriptures?
BE-AWARE of NIV translation
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Can you please furnish scriptures that state Jesus and or His Power can be experienced via the scriptures?
Oh are you playing some kind of game?
This is just more KJVO religious propaganda. There are as many errors in the KJV and as many words added as any other English translation. Some of the text was missing when Erasmus was translating and so he used the Latin vulgate to fill in the blanks. The Latin vulgate done by Jerome is as corrupt and errant as any translations ever done.
But as I said before I rarely use KJV or NIV. I mainly use NLT for daily reading and YLY, TCV, or the Septuagint for studying.
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Please point out where I have said anything of this nature.
what i mean is that when you read bible and read that Jesus heals and gives joy in Holy Spirit then you can pray that these things also would happen to you. im sure u understand that brother
knowing Jesus via scriptures yes its possible by reading to experience the truth your reading, if you just ask in prayer.
Ophel
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No it doesn't!
Acts 3:7 NIV
Taking him by the right hand, he helped him up, and instantly the man's feet and ankles became strong.
That is hogwash. I have been walking with Jesus Christ for 47 years and I don't "baby read" anything. Making pat judgments about people's spiritual state and denying that the Holy Spirit speaks through His word is what I am seeing as the impetus of this thread.
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Boanerges
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That is a mighty big assumption.
Boanerges
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I was just looking through a list of a dozen websites that key on the inaccuracies and problems in the King Jimmy. There has been a "religious" battle over translations as long as i can remember but Jesus never told us which one to read. If He told me to be KJV only I would of course do so immediately. Otherwise you have bickering critics on both sides to sway you one way or the other.
Honestly, what you are reading in any Bible is a translation. Manuscripts do differ. The newer one generally have added material not found in the ones closer to the original events.
What you really need is to spend time with the Holy Spirit, He teach and speak to you.
Honestly, what you are reading in any Bible is a translation. Manuscripts do differ. The newer one generally have added material not found in the ones closer to the original events.
What you really need is to spend time with the Holy Spirit, He teach and speak to you.
what i mean is that when you read bible and read that Jesus heals and gives joy in Holy Spirit then you can pray that these things also would happen to you. im sure u understand that brother
knowing Jesus via scriptures yes its possible by reading to experience the truth your reading, if you just ask in prayer.
I disagree, that's like saying it is possible to experience driving a car by just reading the operator's manual.
Amen Boanerges and the scriptures agree with this also.
shipwrecksoul
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You have just said the Holy Spirit speaks through his word right?
Who's word? An unbelievers codex changed into being the NIV? Who authorized it? Robert Murdoch, the porn seller making millions off of the abuse of women, porn. I wonder who actually believes the NIV is the word of God, I dont!
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shipwrecksoul
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Originally Posted by Boanerges 
What you really need is to spend time with the Holy Spirit, He teach and speak to you.
The Holy Spirit is God. So God is not the author of confusion. The NIV leaves out verses and changes verses. This is what confusion means point blank. Live with it. The NIV is a corrupt manuscript period.
What you really need is to spend time with the Holy Spirit, He teach and speak to you.
The Holy Spirit is God. So God is not the author of confusion. The NIV leaves out verses and changes verses. This is what confusion means point blank. Live with it. The NIV is a corrupt manuscript period.
shipwrecksoul
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You said Jesus never told us which one to read right?
P
sa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation forever.
With this verse alone the NIV leaves out verses which were preserved from day one thus according to this Jesus did, He was God back then to you know, have HIS word all along so the NIV cant be it! Its missing large portions of scripture, it has gender neutral correlation now.
Jesus would say that the NIV is corrupt!
shipwrecksoul
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Yes it is possible with God as the author and motivator in ones life, so your knocking Jari in his relationship with God with academics and not by the Spirit showing you to relate to someone as the Spirit is showing Jari in his willingness in his response to Gods love!
So your dead wrong Jiggfly thats why God sends his Spirit for conviction, righteousness and judgment. Jari is listening to the Spirit lead him!
God is the teacher, not man, through showing us by the Holy Spirit!
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Ophel
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You can believe what you wish, but there is nothing sinister about the NIV.
God is the author and the Holy Spirit speaks through the NIV just as He speaks through any other version we commonly read as believers.
Once again we have on our hands the disbelief that God can use imperfect people to do His work in the world.
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Boanerges
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I stand by my statement- there is no recommended translation in those verses.
NIV: 12:6 And the words of the LORD are flawless,
like silver refined in a furnace of clay,
purified seven times. 12:7 O LORD, you will keep us safe
and protect us from such people forever.
I do not really see any major omission there, Neither is there any proof that anything is missing there.
I have a small advantage- I used to run with the King Jimmy only crowd so I know am familiar with both sides of this issue (if there really is an issue).
I am no longer limited in my Bible reading though and many translations make for a rich and flavorful experience.
Psa 12:6
(ASV) The words of Jehovah are pure words; As silver tried in a furnace on the earth, Purified seven times.
(Bishops) The wordes of God be wordes pure, as the siluer tryed in a furnace of earth: and purified seuen times.
(CEV) Our LORD, you are true to your promises, and your word is like silver heated seven times in a fiery furnace.
(Darby) The words of Jehovah are pure words, silver tried in the furnace of earth, purified seven times.
(DRB) (12:7) The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried by the fire, purged from the earth, refined seven times.
(ESV) The words of the LORD are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times.
(Geneva) The wordes of the Lorde are pure wordes, as the siluer, tried in a fornace of earth, fined seuen folde.
(GNB) The promises of the LORD can be trusted; they are as genuine as silver refined seven times in the furnace.
(GW) The promises of the LORD are pure, like silver refined in a furnace and purified seven times.
(HOT) (12:7) אמרות יהוה אמרות טהרות כסף צרוף בעליל לארץ מזקק שׁבעתים׃
(HOT+) (12:7) אמרותH565 יהוהH3068 אמרותH565 טהרותH2889 כסףH3701 צרוףH6884 בעלילH5948 לארץH776 מזקקH2212 שׁבעתים׃H7659
(JPS) (12:7) The words of the LORD are pure words, as silver tried in a crucible on the earth, refined seven times.
(KJV) The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
(
(KJV-1611) The wordes of the Lord are pure wordes: as siluer tried in a fornace of earth purified seuen times.
(KJVA) The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
(LITV) The Words of Jehovah are pure Words, like silver refined in an earthen furnace, purified seven times.
(LXX) (11:7) τὰ λόγια κυρίου λόγια ἁγνά, ἀργύριον πεπυρωμένον δοκίμιον τῇ γῇ κεκαθαρισμένον ἑπταπλασίως.
(MKJV) The Words of Jehovah are pure Words, like silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
(RV) The words of the LORD are pure words; as silver tried in a furnace on the earth, purified seven times.
(Vulgate) (11:7) eloquia Domini eloquia casta argentum igne examinatum probatum terrae purgatum septuplum
(Webster) The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
(YLT) Sayings of Jehovah are pure sayings; Silver tried in a furnace of earth refined sevenfold.
Boanerges
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Psa 12:7
(ASV) Thou wilt keep them, O Jehovah, Thou wilt preserve them from this generation for ever.
(Bishops) [Wherfore] thou wylt kepe the godly, O God: thou wylt preserue euery one of them from this generation for euer.
(CEV) You will protect us and always keep us safe from those people.
(Darby) Thou, Jehovah, wilt keep them, thou wilt preserve them from this generation for ever.
(DRB) (12:8) Thou, O Lord, wilt preserve us: and keep us from this generation for ever.
(ESV) You, O LORD, will keep them; you will guard us from this generation forever.
(Geneva) Thou wilt keepe them, O Lord: thou wilt preserue him from this generation for euer.
(GNB) The wicked are everywhere, and everyone praises what is evil. Keep us always safe, O LORD, and preserve us from such people.
(GW) O LORD, you will protect them. You will keep each one safe from those people forever.
(HOT) (12:8) אתה־יהוה תשׁמרם תצרנו מן־הדור זו לעולם׃
(HOT+) (12:8) אתהH859 יהוהH3068 תשׁמרםH8104 תצרנוH5341 מןH4480 הדורH1755 זוH2098 לעולם׃H5769
(JPS) (12:8) Thou wilt keep them, O LORD; Thou wilt preserve us from this generation for ever.
(KJV) Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
(KJV-1611) Thou shalt keepe them, (O Lord,) thou shalt preserue them, from this generation for euer.
(KJVA) Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
(LITV) You shall keep them, O Jehovah; You shall preserve them from this generation forever.
(LXX) (11:8) σύ, κύριε, φυλάξεις ἡμᾶς καὶ διατηρήσεις ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης καὶ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα.
(MKJV) You shall keep them, O Jehovah, You shall preserve them from this generation forever.
(RV) Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
(Vulgate) (11:8) tu Domine servabis nos et custodies nos a generatione hac et in aeternum
(Webster) Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
(YLT) Thou, O Jehovah, dost preserve them, Thou keepest us from this generation to the age.
As is generally the case there are minor differences but none that negate the gospel message.
I certainly do challenge you to find Jesus telling us that the larger (and more modern) manuscripts are any better than the older manuscripts. If you wish to present one I will gladly examine chapter and verse.
Many blessings in Jesus Name,
your brother Larry.
(ASV) Thou wilt keep them, O Jehovah, Thou wilt preserve them from this generation for ever.
(Bishops) [Wherfore] thou wylt kepe the godly, O God: thou wylt preserue euery one of them from this generation for euer.
(CEV) You will protect us and always keep us safe from those people.
(Darby) Thou, Jehovah, wilt keep them, thou wilt preserve them from this generation for ever.
(DRB) (12:8) Thou, O Lord, wilt preserve us: and keep us from this generation for ever.
(ESV) You, O LORD, will keep them; you will guard us from this generation forever.
(Geneva) Thou wilt keepe them, O Lord: thou wilt preserue him from this generation for euer.
(GNB) The wicked are everywhere, and everyone praises what is evil. Keep us always safe, O LORD, and preserve us from such people.
(GW) O LORD, you will protect them. You will keep each one safe from those people forever.
(HOT) (12:8) אתה־יהוה תשׁמרם תצרנו מן־הדור זו לעולם׃
(HOT+) (12:8) אתהH859 יהוהH3068 תשׁמרםH8104 תצרנוH5341 מןH4480 הדורH1755 זוH2098 לעולם׃H5769
(JPS) (12:8) Thou wilt keep them, O LORD; Thou wilt preserve us from this generation for ever.
(KJV) Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
(KJV-1611) Thou shalt keepe them, (O Lord,) thou shalt preserue them, from this generation for euer.
(KJVA) Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
(LITV) You shall keep them, O Jehovah; You shall preserve them from this generation forever.
(LXX) (11:8) σύ, κύριε, φυλάξεις ἡμᾶς καὶ διατηρήσεις ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης καὶ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα.
(MKJV) You shall keep them, O Jehovah, You shall preserve them from this generation forever.
(RV) Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
(Vulgate) (11:8) tu Domine servabis nos et custodies nos a generatione hac et in aeternum
(Webster) Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
(YLT) Thou, O Jehovah, dost preserve them, Thou keepest us from this generation to the age.
As is generally the case there are minor differences but none that negate the gospel message.
I certainly do challenge you to find Jesus telling us that the larger (and more modern) manuscripts are any better than the older manuscripts. If you wish to present one I will gladly examine chapter and verse.
Many blessings in Jesus Name,
your brother Larry.
shipwrecksoul
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God can convict anyone even when they are reading a medicine jar. But to slur or remove what God says dishonors the validity of who does it. In this case the NIV slurs the name of God by removing and twisting and changing what God has said.
Thus saith the Lord bro!
You either believe that or you are accustomed, like all of us at some times in our life, to want to abide by being cuddled by the NIV for self not to give the throne to Christ who can rule but not through the adulterated NIV!
shipwrecksoul
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Not the verse itself but to point out with this verse that the NIV is Corrupt because it leaves out verses and twists and changes the meaning in to many verses!
Please reread what I said earlier!
The NIV is Corrupt according to Jesus!
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shipwrecksoul
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Boanerges
Not the verse itself but to point out with this verse that the NIV is Corrupt because it leaves out verses and twists and changes the meaning in to many verses!
Please reread what I said earlier!
The NIV is Corrupt according to Jesus!
You said Jesus never told us which one to read right?
sa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation forever.
With this verse alone it explains in showing that the NIV leaves out verses which were preserved from day one thus according to this Jesus did, He was God back then to you know, have HIS word all along so the NIV cant be it! Its missing large portions of scripture, it has gender neutral correlation now.
Jesus would say that the NIV is corrupt!
Not the verse itself but to point out with this verse that the NIV is Corrupt because it leaves out verses and twists and changes the meaning in to many verses!
Please reread what I said earlier!
The NIV is Corrupt according to Jesus!
You said Jesus never told us which one to read right?
sa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation forever.
With this verse alone it explains in showing that the NIV leaves out verses which were preserved from day one thus according to this Jesus did, He was God back then to you know, have HIS word all along so the NIV cant be it! Its missing large portions of scripture, it has gender neutral correlation now.
Jesus would say that the NIV is corrupt!
Boanerges
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Which KJV is inspired, since it was revised four times,
In truth you cannot say if those verses you where talking about (clearly not Pslam 12:6-7 as they are certainly included in the NIV) were left out of the older manuscripts or added to the newer ones (which many scholars support).
If you can answer even the very first of these following questions I will be impressed-
and the second overwhelmed-
From the Interacive Bible web site
Questions for "KJV only" advocates:
Some questions by Steve Rudd, who compiled the remaining questions from others.
Which KJV is inspired, since it was revised four times, the last being in 1769.
Since the revisions of the KJV from 1613-1850 made (in addition to changes in punctuation, capitalization, and spelling) many hundreds of changes in words, word order, possessives, singulars for plurals, articles, pronouns, conjunctions, prepositions, entire phrases, and the addition and deletion of words - would you say the KJV was "verbally inerrant" in 1611, 1629, 1638, 1644, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, or 1850?
What Bible would these KJV worshippers recommend since before 1611 there was no Bible.
Do they realize that the apostle Paul did not use the KJV.
Why do KJV only advocates reject the apocrypha, since the original 1611 version contained the apocrypha?
If the KJV translators were inspire, why did they use a marginal reference to the apocrypha:
If God always gives the world his word in one language (as KJV advocates say of English), then the KJV is certainly not that language, for God chose Koine GREEK not ENGLISH to reveal his New Covenant!
If God gave us the KJV as an inspired translation, why would God not repeat the process again in modern language in each language?
If God supervised the translation process so that the KJV is 100% error free, why did God not extend this supervision to the printers?
Why did the KJV translators use marginal note showing alternate translation possibilities? If the English of the KJV is inspired of God, there would be no alternates!
If the KJV translators were inspired of God in their work, why did they not know it?
Why were all the marginal notes and alternate readings removed from modern editions of the KJV, along with the Apocrypha, the opening Dedication to James I, and a lengthy introduction from "The Translators to the Reader."?
When there is a difference between the KJV English and the TR Greek, why do you believe that the Greek was wrong and the KJV English is correct?
If the KJV-only supporters believe fully in the word-for-word inspiration of the KJV, why would italics be necessary?
In defending the KJV's use of archaic language, do you really think it is a good thing that a person must use an Early Modern English dictionary just to understand the Bible in casual reading?
Why do KJV only advocates feel that all modern translations are wrong for copyrighting the work of each translation when they copyright the materials on their websites, tracts and books they use to promote the KJV? Do they not realize that after 100 years all books pass into public domain and that all copyrighted Bibles today will soon be public domain just like the KJV? If "God's truth should not be copyrighted" then why do they copy write their defenses of God's ultimate truth, the Bible?
Is it not ridiculous to suggest that when the TR disagrees with the KJV that Greek TR has errors, but the KJV doesn't? Is this not the ultimate example of "translation worship"? (Reject the original in favour of the translation)
Did you know that the Textus Receptus, from which the KJV was translated, was based on half a dozen small manuscripts, none earlier than the 10th century?
If the Textus Receptus is the error free text, then why are the last 6 verses of Revelation absence from the TR, yet present in the KJV? Did you know that for these verses, the Latin Vulgate was translated into Greek which was then translated into English - a translation of a translation of a translation?
Why do KJV only advocates believe that the English of the KJV is clearer and more precise than the original Greek language manuscripts? Why should Bible students throw out their Greek dictionaries and buy an "archaic English" dictionary? Are there not word pictures in the original Greek words that the English cannot easily convey? (Jas 2:19 "tremble"; Greek: PHRISSO, indicates to be rough, to bristle. is a powerful word picture of how the demons are in such terror that their skin is rough with goose pimples. Also differences between "agape" and "phileo" love words.)
Why did the translators make mistakes in the chapter summaries in the 1611 version? Wouldn't God have inspired this as well? Why would God inspire the English providentially accurate, but then allow misleading chapter headings? (Every chapter of the Song of Songs is interpreted as descriptive of the church. This is wrong. SoS is God's "mate selection manual." Also, Isa 22 "He prophesieth Shebna's deprivation, and Eliakim, prefiguring the kingdom of Christ, his substitution" This is wrong and reflect the incorrect theology of the day.)
Why would the translators use book headings like "The Gospel According to Saint Luke" since the Greek merely says "The Gospel According to Luke". Does not this show that the translators were influenced by their contemporary theology and the Catholic false doctrine of "sainthood"?
Do KJV only advocates realize that they stand beside the Mormon church in that both groups believe that they were delivered an "inspired translation"? (Mormon's believe Joseph Smith's English translation of the Book of Mormon from the Nephi Plates was done under inspiration.) Do KJV only advocates realize that the most powerful and irrefutable evidence that neither were translated under inspiration, is the very first edition with all their thousands of errors? (KJV- 1611 edition; BoM- 1831 edition)
Do KJV only advocates realize that, to point out that all modern translations have the same kinds of mistakes we are accusing of the KJV, is irrelevant, because we maintain that all translations have errors and none were translated under the inspired supervision of God?
Why would the Holy Spirit mis-guide the translators to employ the use of mythical creatures like "unicorn" for wild ox, "satyr" for "wild goat", "cockatrice" for common viper, when today we know what the real name of these creatures is?
If the KJV is error free in the English, then why did they fail to correctly distinguish between "Devil and Demons" (Mt 4:1-DIABOLOS and Jn 13:2-DAIMONIZOMAI) ; "hades and hell" (see Lk 16:23-HADES and Mt 5:22-GEENNA; Note: Hades is distinct from hell because hades is thrown into hell after judgement: Rev 20:14)
Why would KJV translators render Gen 15:6 which is quoted in identical Greek form by Paul in Rom 4:3, 9, 22; Gal 3:6, in FOUR DIFFERENT WAYS? Why are they creating distinctions were none exist?
Why did the KJV translators have no consistent rule for differentiating between the use of definite and indefinite articles? (Dan 3:25 we have one "like the Son of God" instead of "like a son of God", even though in 28 Nebuchadnezzar states God sent "His angel" to deliver the men. The definite article was also added to the centurion's confession in Mt 27:54.)
How can you accept that the Textus Receptus is perfect and error free when Acts 9:6 is found only in the Latin Vulgate but absolutely no Greek manuscript known to man? Further, how come in Rev 22:19 the phrase "book of life" is used in the KJV when absolutely ALL known Greek manuscripts read "tree of life"?
How can we trust the TR to be 100% error free when the second half of 1 Jn 5:8 are found only in the Latin Vulgate and a Greek manuscript probably written in Oxford about 1520 by a Franciscan friar named Froy (or Roy), who took the disputed words from the Latin Vulgate? (we are not disputing the doctrine of the trinity, just the validity of the last half of this verse)
How do you explain the grammatical error in the original 1611 KJV in Isa 6:2 where the translators made a rare grammatical error by using the incorrect plural form of "seraphims" rather than "seraphim"?
Must we possess a perfectly flawless bible translation in order to call it "the word of God"? If so, how do we know "it" is perfect? If not, why do some "limit" "the word of God" to only ONE "17th Century English" translation? Where was "the word of God" prior to 1611? Did our Pilgrim Fathers have "the word of God" when they brought the GENEVA BIBLE translation with them to North America?
Were the KJV translators "liars" for saying that "the very meanest [poorest] translation" is still "the word of God"?
Do you believe that the Hebrew and Greek used for the KJV are "the word of God"?
Do you believe that the Hebrew and Greek underlying the KJV can "correct" the English?
Do you believe that the English of the KJV "corrects" its own Hebrew and Greek texts from which it was translated?
Is ANY translation "inspired"? Is the KJV an "inspired translation"?
Is the KJV "scripture" ? Is IT "given by inspiration of God"? [2 Tim. 3:16]
WHEN was the KJV "given by inspiration of God" - 1611, or any of the KJV major/minor revisions in 1613, 1629, 1638, 1644, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, and the last one in 1850?
In what language did Jesus Christ [not Peter Ruckman and others] teach that the Old Testament would be preserved forever according to Matthew 5:18?
Where does the Bible teach that God will perfectly preserve His Word in the form of one seventeenth-century English translation?
Did God lose the words of the originals when the "autographs" were destroyed?
Did the KJV translators mislead their readers by saying that their New Testament was "translated out of the original Greek"? [title page of KJV N.T.] Were they "liars" for claiming to have "the original Greek" to translate from?
Was "the original Greek" lost after 1611?
Did the great Protestant Reformation (1517-1603) take place without "the word of God"?
What copy or translations of "the word of God," used by the Reformers, was absolutely infallible and inerrant? [their main Bibles are well-known and copies still exist].
If the KJV is "God's infallible and preserved word to the English-speaking people," did the "English-speaking people" have "the word of God" from 1525-1604?
Was Tyndale's [1525], or Coverdale's [1535], or Matthew's [1537], or the Great [1539], or the Geneva [1560] . . . English Bible absolutely infallible?
If neither the KJV nor any other one version were absolutely inerrant, could a lost sinner still be "born again" by the "incorruptible word of God"? [1 Peter 1:23]
If the KJV can "correct" the inspired originals, did the Hebrew and Greek originally "breathed out by God" need correction or improvement?
Since most "KJV-Onlyites" believe the KJV is the inerrant and inspired "scripture" [2 Peter 1:20], and 2 Peter 1:21 says that "the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost," would you not therefore reason thus - "For the King James Version came not in 1611 by the will of man: but holy men of God translated as they were moved by the Holy Ghost"?
Which reading is the verbally (word-for-word) inerrant scripture - "whom ye" [Cambridge KJV's] or, "whom he" [Oxford KJV's] at Jeremiah 34:16?
Which reading is the verbally (word-for-word) inerrant scripture - "sin" [Cambridge KJV's] or "sins" [Oxford KJV's] at 2 Chronicles 33:19?
Who publishes the "inerrant KJV"?
Would you contend that God waited until a king named "James" sat on the throne of England before perfectly preserving His Word in English, and would you think well of an "Epistle Dedicatory" that praises this king as "most dread Sovereign . . .Your Majesty's Royal Person . . ." - IF the historical FACT was revealed to you that King James was a practicing ********** all of his life? [documentation - Antonia Fraser -- "King James VI of Scotland, I of England" Knopf Publ./1975/pgs. 36-37, 123 || Caroline Bingham -- "The Making of a King" Doubleday Publ./1969/pgs. 128-129, 197-198 || Otto J. Scott -- "James I" Mason-Charter Publ./1976/pgs. 108, 111, 120, 194, 200, 224, 311, 353, 382 || David H. Wilson -- "King James VI & I" Oxford Publ./1956/pgs. 36, 99-101, 336-337, 383-386, 395 || plus several encyclopedias]
Would you contend that the KJV translator, Richard Thomson, who worked on Genesis-Kings in the Westminster group, was "led by God in translating" even though he was an alcoholic that "drank his fill daily" throughout the work? [Gustavus S. Paine -- "The Men Behind the KJV" Baker Book House/1979/pgs. 40, 69]
Is it possible that the rendition "gay clothing," in the KJV at James 2: 3, could give the wrong impression to the modern-English KJV reader?
Did dead people "wake up" in the morning according to Isaiah 37:36 in the KJV?
Was "Baptist" John's last name according to Matthew 14: 8 and Luke 7:20 in the KJV?
Is 2 Corinthians 6:11-13 in the KJV understood or make any sense to the modern-English KJV reader? - "O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. Now for a recompense in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged." As clearly understood from the New International Version [NIV] - "We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians, and opened wide our hearts to you. We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us. As a fair exchange - I speak as to my children - open wide your hearts also."
Does the singular "oath's," occurring in every KJV at Matthew 14: 9 and Mark 6:26, "correct" every Textus Receptus Greek which has the plural ("oaths") by the post-1611 publishers, misplacing the apostrophe?
Did Jesus teach a way for men to be "worshiped" according to Luke 14:10 in the KJV, contradicting the first commandment and what He said in Luke 4: 8? [Remember - you may not go the Greek for any "light" if you are a KJV-Onlyite!]
Is the Holy Spirit an "it" according to John 1:32; Romans 8:16, 26; and 1 Peter 1:11 in the KJV? [Again - you may not go the Greek for any "light" if you are a KJV-Onlyite!]
Does Luke 23:56 support a "Friday" crucifixion in the KJV? [No "day" here in Greek]
Did Jesus command for a girl to be given "meat" to eat according to Luke 8:55 in the KJV? [or, "of them that sit at meat with thee." at Luke 14:10]
Was Charles Haddon Spurgeon a "Bible-corrector" for saying that Romans 8:24 should be rendered "saved in hope," instead of the KJV's "saved by hope"? [Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vol 27, 1881, page 485 - see more Spurgeon KJV comments in What is "KJV-Onlyism?", his & many others' views in the article, "Quotes on Bible Translations."]
Was J. Frank Norris a "Bible-corrector" for saying that the correct rendering of John 3:5 should be "born of water and the Spirit," and for saying that "repent and turn" in Acts 26:20 should be "repent, even turn"? [Norris-Wallace Debate, 1934, pgs. 108, 116] Also, is Norman Pickering an "Alexandrian Apostate" for stating, "The nature of language does not permit a 'perfect' translation - the semantic area of words differs between languages so that there is seldom complete overlap. A 'perfect' translation of John 3:16 from Greek into English is impossible, for we have no perfect equivalent for "agapao" [translated "loved" in John. 3:16]."?
Was R. A. Torrey "lying" when he said the following in 1907 - "No one, so far as I know, holds that the English translation of the Bible is absolutely infallible and inerrant. The doctrine held by many is that the Scriptures as originally given were absolutely infallible and inerrant, and that our English translation is a substantially accurate rendering of the Scriptures as originally given"? [Difficulties in the Bible, page 17]
Is Don Edwards correct in agreeing "in favor of canonizing our KJV," thus replacing the inspired canon in Hebrew and Greek? [The Flaming Torch, June 1989, page 6]
In truth you cannot say if those verses you where talking about (clearly not Pslam 12:6-7 as they are certainly included in the NIV) were left out of the older manuscripts or added to the newer ones (which many scholars support).
If you can answer even the very first of these following questions I will be impressed-
and the second overwhelmed-
From the Interacive Bible web site
Questions for "KJV only" advocates:
Some questions by Steve Rudd, who compiled the remaining questions from others.
Which KJV is inspired, since it was revised four times, the last being in 1769.
Since the revisions of the KJV from 1613-1850 made (in addition to changes in punctuation, capitalization, and spelling) many hundreds of changes in words, word order, possessives, singulars for plurals, articles, pronouns, conjunctions, prepositions, entire phrases, and the addition and deletion of words - would you say the KJV was "verbally inerrant" in 1611, 1629, 1638, 1644, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, or 1850?
What Bible would these KJV worshippers recommend since before 1611 there was no Bible.
Do they realize that the apostle Paul did not use the KJV.
Why do KJV only advocates reject the apocrypha, since the original 1611 version contained the apocrypha?
If the KJV translators were inspire, why did they use a marginal reference to the apocrypha:
If God always gives the world his word in one language (as KJV advocates say of English), then the KJV is certainly not that language, for God chose Koine GREEK not ENGLISH to reveal his New Covenant! If God gave us the KJV as an inspired translation, why would God not repeat the process again in modern language in each language?
If God supervised the translation process so that the KJV is 100% error free, why did God not extend this supervision to the printers?
Why did the KJV translators use marginal note showing alternate translation possibilities? If the English of the KJV is inspired of God, there would be no alternates!
If the KJV translators were inspired of God in their work, why did they not know it?
Why were all the marginal notes and alternate readings removed from modern editions of the KJV, along with the Apocrypha, the opening Dedication to James I, and a lengthy introduction from "The Translators to the Reader."?
When there is a difference between the KJV English and the TR Greek, why do you believe that the Greek was wrong and the KJV English is correct?
If the KJV-only supporters believe fully in the word-for-word inspiration of the KJV, why would italics be necessary?
In defending the KJV's use of archaic language, do you really think it is a good thing that a person must use an Early Modern English dictionary just to understand the Bible in casual reading?
Why do KJV only advocates feel that all modern translations are wrong for copyrighting the work of each translation when they copyright the materials on their websites, tracts and books they use to promote the KJV? Do they not realize that after 100 years all books pass into public domain and that all copyrighted Bibles today will soon be public domain just like the KJV? If "God's truth should not be copyrighted" then why do they copy write their defenses of God's ultimate truth, the Bible?
Is it not ridiculous to suggest that when the TR disagrees with the KJV that Greek TR has errors, but the KJV doesn't? Is this not the ultimate example of "translation worship"? (Reject the original in favour of the translation)
Did you know that the Textus Receptus, from which the KJV was translated, was based on half a dozen small manuscripts, none earlier than the 10th century?
If the Textus Receptus is the error free text, then why are the last 6 verses of Revelation absence from the TR, yet present in the KJV? Did you know that for these verses, the Latin Vulgate was translated into Greek which was then translated into English - a translation of a translation of a translation?
Why do KJV only advocates believe that the English of the KJV is clearer and more precise than the original Greek language manuscripts? Why should Bible students throw out their Greek dictionaries and buy an "archaic English" dictionary? Are there not word pictures in the original Greek words that the English cannot easily convey? (Jas 2:19 "tremble"; Greek: PHRISSO, indicates to be rough, to bristle. is a powerful word picture of how the demons are in such terror that their skin is rough with goose pimples. Also differences between "agape" and "phileo" love words.)
Why did the translators make mistakes in the chapter summaries in the 1611 version? Wouldn't God have inspired this as well? Why would God inspire the English providentially accurate, but then allow misleading chapter headings? (Every chapter of the Song of Songs is interpreted as descriptive of the church. This is wrong. SoS is God's "mate selection manual." Also, Isa 22 "He prophesieth Shebna's deprivation, and Eliakim, prefiguring the kingdom of Christ, his substitution" This is wrong and reflect the incorrect theology of the day.)
Why would the translators use book headings like "The Gospel According to Saint Luke" since the Greek merely says "The Gospel According to Luke". Does not this show that the translators were influenced by their contemporary theology and the Catholic false doctrine of "sainthood"?
Do KJV only advocates realize that they stand beside the Mormon church in that both groups believe that they were delivered an "inspired translation"? (Mormon's believe Joseph Smith's English translation of the Book of Mormon from the Nephi Plates was done under inspiration.) Do KJV only advocates realize that the most powerful and irrefutable evidence that neither were translated under inspiration, is the very first edition with all their thousands of errors? (KJV- 1611 edition; BoM- 1831 edition)
Do KJV only advocates realize that, to point out that all modern translations have the same kinds of mistakes we are accusing of the KJV, is irrelevant, because we maintain that all translations have errors and none were translated under the inspired supervision of God?
Why would the Holy Spirit mis-guide the translators to employ the use of mythical creatures like "unicorn" for wild ox, "satyr" for "wild goat", "cockatrice" for common viper, when today we know what the real name of these creatures is?
If the KJV is error free in the English, then why did they fail to correctly distinguish between "Devil and Demons" (Mt 4:1-DIABOLOS and Jn 13:2-DAIMONIZOMAI) ; "hades and hell" (see Lk 16:23-HADES and Mt 5:22-GEENNA; Note: Hades is distinct from hell because hades is thrown into hell after judgement: Rev 20:14)
Why would KJV translators render Gen 15:6 which is quoted in identical Greek form by Paul in Rom 4:3, 9, 22; Gal 3:6, in FOUR DIFFERENT WAYS? Why are they creating distinctions were none exist?
Why did the KJV translators have no consistent rule for differentiating between the use of definite and indefinite articles? (Dan 3:25 we have one "like the Son of God" instead of "like a son of God", even though in 28 Nebuchadnezzar states God sent "His angel" to deliver the men. The definite article was also added to the centurion's confession in Mt 27:54.)
How can you accept that the Textus Receptus is perfect and error free when Acts 9:6 is found only in the Latin Vulgate but absolutely no Greek manuscript known to man? Further, how come in Rev 22:19 the phrase "book of life" is used in the KJV when absolutely ALL known Greek manuscripts read "tree of life"?
How can we trust the TR to be 100% error free when the second half of 1 Jn 5:8 are found only in the Latin Vulgate and a Greek manuscript probably written in Oxford about 1520 by a Franciscan friar named Froy (or Roy), who took the disputed words from the Latin Vulgate? (we are not disputing the doctrine of the trinity, just the validity of the last half of this verse)
How do you explain the grammatical error in the original 1611 KJV in Isa 6:2 where the translators made a rare grammatical error by using the incorrect plural form of "seraphims" rather than "seraphim"?
Must we possess a perfectly flawless bible translation in order to call it "the word of God"? If so, how do we know "it" is perfect? If not, why do some "limit" "the word of God" to only ONE "17th Century English" translation? Where was "the word of God" prior to 1611? Did our Pilgrim Fathers have "the word of God" when they brought the GENEVA BIBLE translation with them to North America?
Were the KJV translators "liars" for saying that "the very meanest [poorest] translation" is still "the word of God"?
Do you believe that the Hebrew and Greek used for the KJV are "the word of God"?
Do you believe that the Hebrew and Greek underlying the KJV can "correct" the English?
Do you believe that the English of the KJV "corrects" its own Hebrew and Greek texts from which it was translated?
Is ANY translation "inspired"? Is the KJV an "inspired translation"?
Is the KJV "scripture" ? Is IT "given by inspiration of God"? [2 Tim. 3:16]
WHEN was the KJV "given by inspiration of God" - 1611, or any of the KJV major/minor revisions in 1613, 1629, 1638, 1644, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, and the last one in 1850?
In what language did Jesus Christ [not Peter Ruckman and others] teach that the Old Testament would be preserved forever according to Matthew 5:18?
Where does the Bible teach that God will perfectly preserve His Word in the form of one seventeenth-century English translation?
Did God lose the words of the originals when the "autographs" were destroyed?
Did the KJV translators mislead their readers by saying that their New Testament was "translated out of the original Greek"? [title page of KJV N.T.] Were they "liars" for claiming to have "the original Greek" to translate from?
Was "the original Greek" lost after 1611?
Did the great Protestant Reformation (1517-1603) take place without "the word of God"?
What copy or translations of "the word of God," used by the Reformers, was absolutely infallible and inerrant? [their main Bibles are well-known and copies still exist].
If the KJV is "God's infallible and preserved word to the English-speaking people," did the "English-speaking people" have "the word of God" from 1525-1604?
Was Tyndale's [1525], or Coverdale's [1535], or Matthew's [1537], or the Great [1539], or the Geneva [1560] . . . English Bible absolutely infallible?
If neither the KJV nor any other one version were absolutely inerrant, could a lost sinner still be "born again" by the "incorruptible word of God"? [1 Peter 1:23]
If the KJV can "correct" the inspired originals, did the Hebrew and Greek originally "breathed out by God" need correction or improvement?
Since most "KJV-Onlyites" believe the KJV is the inerrant and inspired "scripture" [2 Peter 1:20], and 2 Peter 1:21 says that "the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost," would you not therefore reason thus - "For the King James Version came not in 1611 by the will of man: but holy men of God translated as they were moved by the Holy Ghost"?
Which reading is the verbally (word-for-word) inerrant scripture - "whom ye" [Cambridge KJV's] or, "whom he" [Oxford KJV's] at Jeremiah 34:16?
Which reading is the verbally (word-for-word) inerrant scripture - "sin" [Cambridge KJV's] or "sins" [Oxford KJV's] at 2 Chronicles 33:19?
Who publishes the "inerrant KJV"?
Would you contend that God waited until a king named "James" sat on the throne of England before perfectly preserving His Word in English, and would you think well of an "Epistle Dedicatory" that praises this king as "most dread Sovereign . . .Your Majesty's Royal Person . . ." - IF the historical FACT was revealed to you that King James was a practicing ********** all of his life? [documentation - Antonia Fraser -- "King James VI of Scotland, I of England" Knopf Publ./1975/pgs. 36-37, 123 || Caroline Bingham -- "The Making of a King" Doubleday Publ./1969/pgs. 128-129, 197-198 || Otto J. Scott -- "James I" Mason-Charter Publ./1976/pgs. 108, 111, 120, 194, 200, 224, 311, 353, 382 || David H. Wilson -- "King James VI & I" Oxford Publ./1956/pgs. 36, 99-101, 336-337, 383-386, 395 || plus several encyclopedias]
Would you contend that the KJV translator, Richard Thomson, who worked on Genesis-Kings in the Westminster group, was "led by God in translating" even though he was an alcoholic that "drank his fill daily" throughout the work? [Gustavus S. Paine -- "The Men Behind the KJV" Baker Book House/1979/pgs. 40, 69]
Is it possible that the rendition "gay clothing," in the KJV at James 2: 3, could give the wrong impression to the modern-English KJV reader?
Did dead people "wake up" in the morning according to Isaiah 37:36 in the KJV?
Was "Baptist" John's last name according to Matthew 14: 8 and Luke 7:20 in the KJV?
Is 2 Corinthians 6:11-13 in the KJV understood or make any sense to the modern-English KJV reader? - "O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. Now for a recompense in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged." As clearly understood from the New International Version [NIV] - "We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians, and opened wide our hearts to you. We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us. As a fair exchange - I speak as to my children - open wide your hearts also."
Does the singular "oath's," occurring in every KJV at Matthew 14: 9 and Mark 6:26, "correct" every Textus Receptus Greek which has the plural ("oaths") by the post-1611 publishers, misplacing the apostrophe?
Did Jesus teach a way for men to be "worshiped" according to Luke 14:10 in the KJV, contradicting the first commandment and what He said in Luke 4: 8? [Remember - you may not go the Greek for any "light" if you are a KJV-Onlyite!]
Is the Holy Spirit an "it" according to John 1:32; Romans 8:16, 26; and 1 Peter 1:11 in the KJV? [Again - you may not go the Greek for any "light" if you are a KJV-Onlyite!]
Does Luke 23:56 support a "Friday" crucifixion in the KJV? [No "day" here in Greek]
Did Jesus command for a girl to be given "meat" to eat according to Luke 8:55 in the KJV? [or, "of them that sit at meat with thee." at Luke 14:10]
Was Charles Haddon Spurgeon a "Bible-corrector" for saying that Romans 8:24 should be rendered "saved in hope," instead of the KJV's "saved by hope"? [Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vol 27, 1881, page 485 - see more Spurgeon KJV comments in What is "KJV-Onlyism?", his & many others' views in the article, "Quotes on Bible Translations."]
Was J. Frank Norris a "Bible-corrector" for saying that the correct rendering of John 3:5 should be "born of water and the Spirit," and for saying that "repent and turn" in Acts 26:20 should be "repent, even turn"? [Norris-Wallace Debate, 1934, pgs. 108, 116] Also, is Norman Pickering an "Alexandrian Apostate" for stating, "The nature of language does not permit a 'perfect' translation - the semantic area of words differs between languages so that there is seldom complete overlap. A 'perfect' translation of John 3:16 from Greek into English is impossible, for we have no perfect equivalent for "agapao" [translated "loved" in John. 3:16]."?
Was R. A. Torrey "lying" when he said the following in 1907 - "No one, so far as I know, holds that the English translation of the Bible is absolutely infallible and inerrant. The doctrine held by many is that the Scriptures as originally given were absolutely infallible and inerrant, and that our English translation is a substantially accurate rendering of the Scriptures as originally given"? [Difficulties in the Bible, page 17]
Is Don Edwards correct in agreeing "in favor of canonizing our KJV," thus replacing the inspired canon in Hebrew and Greek? [The Flaming Torch, June 1989, page 6]
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