Beware of the "Rapture Ready" Forum

[lexi_09]

fdg,

Do not worry about being treated badly by the "rapture ready" clan

I happen to believe that the Lord is going to call His church home before He brings His coming judgment of the tribulation period ..... but the RF forum uses this truth as a front for the moderators to hide behind

These people are members of a cult and they have taken over the site

This Talk Jesus forum will never treat you in the same manner and I am certain that you can stay, learn, and grow

The Lord has led you away from a very aberrant forum to one that is Christ centered

I just came upon this thread and am quite disturbed. Honestly I am a member of RR-BB as I am a pre-trib believer. Belief in the rapture has nothing to do with my salvation, I know that for a fact!
And my pre-trib view is my personal decision to believe in and I know people will respect my belief in it.

Now I joined because I am a new born-again christian and I am very interested in end times prophecy so I joined that site because everyone holds the same view as me. However, I have been given warnings for posting things the "Mods" dont' agrre with because I violated their rules. Some Mods are very single minded and can be quite rude. Now I am worried. I mean I don't make RR my reliegion. Christ is all I am focused on and want to be with him forever! That is my goal. I am a work in progress but have been saved by his precious blood and grace through faith in Him ALONE!

Should I stop being a member there? I am so new to everything as I am a fromer catholic and feel very confused about this. Any thoughts?

 

[Stephen1]

Lexi,

I am one who has studied the prophetic scriptures for about 30 years and have a fairly soild and correct understanding of the Bible and of the records of human history

The Lord will undoubtedly call for the believer before He brings His hour of trial upon the earth [the tribulation period] .... He could do it before this day is over and requires that the believer be ready at all times

The RR forum has unfortunately been taken over by the moderators who pretend to be christian, but they are not .... a very deceptive arrangement

These have hijacked the original RR site and they are controlling it for neferious purposes

I would suggest since you are a new believer in Jesus Christ that you would be better off staying away from the RR forum and to engage with other sites that are more open like Talk Jesus ..... and not sequestered by a few moderators who reflect very questionable behavior

I post on another at www.christian-forum.net that is very open .... but the site does have some posters who are not in step with the Lord for sure .... all internet forums have some of these

I also have a simple website at www.prophecy1.blogspot.com ..... if I can help you with questions let me know

Stick with your Bible and ask the Lord to guide you into all truth ..... He will do this

..... it takes time and effort on your part, but He will withold nothing from you as long as your motives are pure and non-selfserving

 

[freedongrace]

I just came upon this thread and am quite disturbed. Honestly I am a member of RR-BB as I am a pre-trib believer. Belief in the rapture has nothing to do with my salvation, I know that for a fact!
And my pre-trib view is my personal decision to believe in and I know people will respect my belief in it.

Now I joined because I am a new born-again christian and I am very interested in end times prophecy so I joined that site because everyone holds the same view as me. However, I have been given warnings for posting things the "Mods" dont' agrre with because I violated their rules. Some Mods are very single minded and can be quite rude. Now I am worried. I mean I don't make RR my reliegion. Christ is all I am focused on and want to be with him forever! That is my goal. I am a work in progress but have been saved by his precious blood and grace through faith in Him ALONE!

Should I stop being a member there? I am so new to everything as I am a fromer catholic and feel very confused about this. Any thoughts?

Did not mean to confuse or disturb you, just was stating the truth about the behavior of unchristlikeness on RR board when they persecute or are rude to posters if you don't support their opinions 100%.I checked today it appears there has been a dispute ??? and turnover with the mods maybe now it will be okay! Iam a born again christian seeking to grow in knowledge ieven if a have questions about others beliefs while seeking the truth.I am trying to grow.

 

[johnpaul]

Yes, but...

Where I know a lot of well-meaning people who believe in the idea of some kind of a "rapture before tribulation", the whole concept is so atrociously documented that it is borderline laughable. Still, like I said, I know many Christians who believe it. The danger of the belief - which is one of the many reasons that I don't - is that it flies in the face of the rest of the doctrines of Scripture and emasculates one's faith.

How? When one believes in Jesus, he must acknowledge that he (the sinner) is not worthy, but is redeemed by His blood. This means that no matter what, Jesus is enough to sustain him - even unto death. So, no matter what trials and tribulations you go through in life, He is sufficient. The "Left Behind" idea emasculates Christ because it assumes that Christ's sufficiency will not be enough for Christians to make it through God's wrath.

How else? Why would God rapture the end-time church to give wrath to the heathen? Truly, if He wanted to rapture us and then torture those "Left Behind", do they now have no hope? Truly, how could they have any hope when His entire church is gone? And, if they do have hope somehow, I guess it doesn't matter if you go through "great tribulation", because you can still be saved.

How else? Why would God allow millenias of tribulation and martyrs for His Word but at the very tail end of time, say, "Hey, you guys who've had it easier than any other generation in technology, riches, medicines, etc. etc. - you don't have to go through this."

How else? If those who are "left behind" truly have no hope, then how does this stack up to the rest of the gospel? I thought people have hope providing there's breath of life? So, if they have no hope, is Christ no longer a Redeemer?

How else? If one believed that they would be saved from a "great tribulation" by being raptured, how does this fit in with Christ's Olivet Discourse? "Watch" He says. Why would you, knowing that you'll be saved from it anyway? How could you watch, knowing that the "signs" will happen AFTER you're raptured? Makes positively no sense.

The idea of a "pre-trib" rapture, without even analyzing Scripture (which I have of all of the verses they use) is the antithesis of the doctrine of gospel. In fact, the whole idea of an end-time "great tribulation" is false as well - for those who are willing to really read and forget the hyperbole that has encroached the church. There will be troubling times at the end, but those times will be the "vials of wrath" stage, not "great tribulation."

I'm sorry that the "rapture ready" site is not Christian, but I can't say I'm surprised given that the whole idea is unBiblical to begin with.

I'm inclined to agree with you (bear with me), but the 'left behinders' will still have the Gospel and the wonder of where their Christian fellows have gone to. The message hasen't gone even if the messengers have. As far as the doctrine of pre, mid and post trib is concerned, I am still a newbie and need to read much more and pray about it.
I'm looking at the rapture ready site now on the other tab. I can't as yet see anything fundamentally wrong. It is no way up to the standard of TJ though.

 

[johnpaul]

Agreed

However, I am neither "pre-trib" nor "post trib". I'm still learning and from my study so far, it seems none of them is right. Only "pre-wrath" come little closer but I don't fully agree with them either. In-fact I don't fully know what the "pre-wrath"ers believe.

I'm with you, I can't see the scriptural evidence for any of it; pre, post or mid trib. However this dosen't mean that the Holy Spirit won't reveal it to me. Pray and let Jesus answer!

 

[faithfulservant]

I found this forum trying to research my concerns for RaptureReady, and that brought this thread up.

Though I'm sure there are plenty of decent people over there, there is a nasty element. That includes some of the moderators, too, who actively and passively humiliate and degrade people.

When I reported a moderator, I was interrogated by that moderator an another in regards to my religious beliefs. When I reported couple of people for their comments, they told me they were "good" members, and that I had no reason to report them.

Is it an evil plot to discredit Christianity? Maybe. Does it have a festering clique that most forums suffer from? Definitely.

They blocked me from the "cults" forum, which is nothing more than one attack after another against anyone who isn't a pre-trib, born again Christian.

I don't claim to have all the answers, but the Body of Christ is NOT a single denomination. There are good people In Christ in almost every denomination, in my opinion. It's not my place to judge, and I defer to God to handle whom He feels is worthy on the day of Judgment.

I still go there to read the news sections, but to be honest, they don't really have anything that I can't find at a couple more peaceable places. They do have one of the most confining, and confounding, standards to post by. I've already had a couple of posts closed and edited. It's my impression most of the crowd over there controlling the board have forgotten the fundamentals of the Gospel of Jesus.

Anyhow, it's nice to be here.

:wink:

 

[Desire2Praise]

I checked today it appears there has been a dispute ??? and turnover with the mods maybe now it will be okay! Iam a born again christian seeking to grow in knowledge ieven if a have questions about others beliefs while seeking the truth.I am trying to grow.

Nope, hasn't changed a bit. For that matter, it's gotten worse now that the new crop of mods are wielding their power.

I've been a member of RR, too. I joined because I wanted to grow in my knowledge of how prophecy fit into current events. For a while it was pretty good, but then I started noticing that they only allowed quotes from certain preachers and loudly protested anyone who was against their beliefs. It seems like if you are not a member of a Calvary Chapel church, you are an apostate.

My spirit stirred, too, when they were advocating, pushing actually, people to leave their churches, and it stirred again when people were actually doing it! I mean, don't get me wrong, but people can be anything they want to be on the Internet. It's where somebody can pretend to be or say they believe anything! Why in the world would someone forsake the assembly of themselves to "join" a church filled with anonymus people, many of whom can be fakers, and why would the "moderators" for lack of a better word allow that?

They seem to pick and choose which Scripture they wish to apply at different times, and leave out the ones that they don't agree with. This seems to me to fly directly in the face of what they are spouting.

Okay, I'm gonna get off my soapbox now, but I take RR's message with a heavy pinch of salt. It takes everything I have not to post over there what I really want to, and I don't post there much just because of that. I'm sure they would label me as a WOF, apostate non-believer. I hope that this forum is different, and from what I've seen so far it is.

Thanks for letting me vent!

 

[shipwrecksoul]

Boy am I'm sure glad I never found the RR site. Here at this site I am seeing a willingness to be open to things that's out of the box positions. I am a rapture ready as when the Jewish men of old, in the days of Jesus on earth, would go to the wife's, to be, father and pay a dowry and marry the girl. But the man would leave the girl, even though they were married legally, there and go home and build an addition to His Fathers house and when he was all done it usually was about two years would come , usually at night, and get his wife with his friends accompanying him blowing trumpets, actually they were sofars( I hope this is the spelling) then he would take her to his fathers house to the addition he built and he would then be in union with her, the marriage was then consummated.
This was the Jewish marriage tradition 2000 years ago.

Jesus said, in
John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[freedongrace]

Boy am I'm sure glad I never found the RR site. Here at this site I am seeing a willingness to be open to things that's out of the box positions. I am a rapture ready as when the Jewish men of old, in the days of Jesus on earth, would go to the wife's, to be, father and pay a dowry and marry the girl. But the man would leave the girl, even though they were married legally, there and go home and build an addition to His Fathers house and when he was all done it usually was about two years would come , usually at night, and get his wife with his friends accompanying him blowing trumpets, actually they were sofars( I hope this is the spelling) then he would take her to his fathers house to the addition he built and he would then be in union with her, the marriage was then consummated.
This was the Jewish marriage tradition 2000 years ago.

Jesus said, in
John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

excellent I love the topic of the ancient Jewish Wedding
Here are a few more things about the Ancient Weddings:

1st-ketubah(betrothal)=establish marriage covenant bridegroom he negotiates the mohar (price) he pays to purchase her.(Christ payed that price).Once bridgroom has payed mohar the covenant is established.At that time the woman and man regarded as husband and wife.From that moment on the bride is considered sanctified(set apart -at salvation) for the bridgroom.The covenant symbol of the relationship is established the groom and his bride drink( he covenant with us his bride by the blood he spilled) from the same glass of wine the betrothal is pronounced.After the marriage coveant is established the groom leaves his bride at home with her family he return's to his father's house(Christ has returned to his father's house).He is away from her for 12 months durig this time her mother and women of her community is preparing her for marriage . She also gathered her trousseau(garments), learned and prepared for married life.(we are in this stage gathering our acceptable garments and preparing for life in the marriage).During this time the groom prepares the bridal chamber(the huppah) had to be a seperate room at his father's house,beautiful for honeymoon and stock with 7 days of provision's.His chamber had to be judged worthy by his father for the bride.Betrothal was adquate time for the bride to prove her purity and not with child.The bride under went ritual purification baths(mikveh)The bride anticipated the return of the groom.When the father of the groom deemed that the bridal chamber was ready, he would give his approval for the groom to claim his bride. The arrival of the groom at the bride's house signaled his intention of "taking her to wife." The formal process of consummating the marriage in the "taking" of the bride was referred to as nissuin, which literally means "taking".

Typically, this "abduction" would occur in the middle of the night. The big moment had arrived and the bridegroom was more then ready, we can be sure. He and his young men would set out in the night, making every attempt to completely surprise the bride.
And that's the romantic part---all Jewish brides were `stolen'. The Jews had a special understanding of a woman's heart. What a thrill for her, to be `abducted' and carried off into the night, not by a stranger but by one who loved her so much that he had paid a high price for her."
Thus, the groom and his attendants would make their way by torch light through the dark streets of the town to the house of the bride. Although abduction was considered romantic, completely surprising the bride by bursting into her house in the middle of the night was not, so upon arrival at the house of the bride, the groom's party would announce their arrival with a shout---"Behold, the bridegroom cometh!"---and, possibly, the blowing of the shofar, the traditional "trumpet" made from a ram's horn.

Mohar=required by law
Mattan =groom gave presents to the bride( eternal life,peace,divine love)
Shiluhim= daughter's share of her father's inheritance( a settlement upon leaving verses a boy getting inheritance at father's death

The high price the father put on the mohar (Jesus Christ Blood) tells you the value we the bride is to God . this is very humbiling huh.

 

[Desire2Praise]

Do any of you who have left the RR site know how to cancel your membership and/or delete your posts and username from their site? I went back to the site today and noticed that, even though they slam TBN and other ministries for having telethons or money-raising days, RR now has a "Donate" button on each page, and they have a graph on their main page to show how much they need and how much they have raised so far.

I have nothing against raising money for ministries, but the hypocrisy of that site is maddening! I don't want my username (which I use in a few other places) or my comments even on the site anymore!

 

[thee1]

I wouldn't say RR is satanic, but I will agree that a few of the moderators are very overbearing, rude, and very much un-Christ-like towards those who disagree with them. I'm still allowed to post there and I do so on a daily basis, but I try not to get engaged in theological or doctrinal debates. Just like I don't necessarily understand why every minister is listed in the Apostasy forum...it seems as though there are absolutely no biblically-sound ministers in existence anymore if you read through Apostasy.

Anyways, I'm looking to spread out and post in more places, so since I've been a TJ member for a while now, time to put this username to use!

I can agree with most of what you're saying. I'm new to this site and noticing the previous posts, I'm shocked that the mods and admin have allowed for this post to stay up lol. I have noticed from a previous site I had just registered with about a week ago, that the very people claiming to love God and be holy will close someone's account because of their speaking style and what questions or comments they post, even if it doesn't express hate. It really got me to thinking, how can one ever trust a leader or fellowship with other christians if they're no allowed seek knowledge in the way they choose? It's sad because it's like people like myself, that are very different in the way we think and act, will be looked down upon. Anyway, I hope that I get to speak my mind freely on this site, as I already aware that people who don't share the same views as me, will try this very same thing, which is sad, and especially when we're all claiming to seek more of God and maintain a righteous walk.

 

[Doc]

This forum is one to avoid

Related article:

A "Christian" Pre-Trib Message Board Run By Satan's Workers. The purpose of this article is to expose some of the ways a large, allegedly Christian Pretrib message board whose aim is to supposedly make believers "Rapture Ready" is being used to undermine and neutralize the faith of Christians rather than build them up in the most holy faith. This particular "Christian" forum is administrated by people who have a satanic agenda. By no means is this the only one; there are many more. The things they do to destroy the faith of Christians and to intimidate real Christians from speaking out for the truth of the Bible is outrageous.

I have watched them for a long time and can see that they have a consistent pattern of promoting ungodly values . They are so intent on this mission that they ridicule, intimidate, and ban anyone who posts documentation to try to counteract their anti-Christian agenda.

No Public I.P's: Administrators Use Aliases To Control The Tone of the Forums
This forum does not use IP's to identify posters so that any reader can verify that each user name is indeed connected to one individual poster. The practice of not displaying IP's enables the administrators to use several aliases so as to gain the appearance of an ungodly liberal majority where none exists in actuality. Their use of aliases serves to convince the readers of their forum that it is perfectly normal for a Christian to live his life conforming to the world and yielding to the lusts of the flesh. After all, the saints of God are saved by grace so holy living is irrelevant, right?
The administrators do use IP's privately to identify posters for their own purposes, such as disallowing banned posters to come back in and read their secret forums which are closed to the public.

They use IP's for their own advantage of having several aliases and to prevent those who would like to know what is going on from being able to register again. If what they are promoting in their private end time forums is God's work, why hide it from the public? People don't cover with darkness what is of God. Satan works under the cover of darkness and in secrecy, not God.

The use of aliases enables the administrators to insult and intimidate into silence the God-fearing, real Bible-believing posters without looking like they are the ones who are doing it. It is a disgustingly manipulative ploy, and very effective. What they have not yet done is change their style of writing to totally cover this up. If you watch carefully you will see how the style of a particularly rude poster (with a very masculine-sounding user name) matches the writing style of a certain administrator. Now that you know about this, don't fall for it any longer.

This is not a Christian message board run by Christian administrators, but is actually a message board run by Satan's followers who pose as Christians. They have become so arrogant that some do not even bother to try to appear authentic anymore. Some of the posters, however, are Christians and do not know what is going on exactly, but are troubled and are becoming spiritually subverted by the postings designed to erode their faith and desensitize them to the godly values taught in the Word of God. Also, many of the posters are also satanists and back up and provide a vocal majority to the ungodly and anti-Christian attitudes and agendas promoted on the forum. Some of these posters are brazen enough to mark themselves with satanic avatars and user names. Those who refrain from being this blatant surely mark themselves with the content of their posts.
Manipulation Through the "Private Messenger" System
People who post to this forum need to understand that their private message posts (PMs) are not necessarily private. Anything they write in their PMs could be read by the administrators and used against them. For example, if a poster complained about the ungodly attitude of an administrator to a fellow "poster" in a PM, he could be unknowingly writing that note to the alias of the administrator he complained about, or one of their friends. That person may find himself baited into some kind of confrontation or he may reveal his feelings of concern about the bias of the administrators, and be banned before he knows what happened to him.

No, I was not banned due to the content of my private messages. I was very careful with my PM's to this forum. I was banned because I politely but straightforwardly told one particularly brazen administrator that she was using propaganda techniques to try and sway the readers to disregard the documentation in my post and the posts of others that do not go along with the way the government wants Christians to think about the smallpox vaccine. She had no defense for her obvious actions so she banned me. The forum administrators will not permit people who work to counter their agenda to have posting privileges.

You are "dead on" accurate with this post. As a matter of fact, there are a number of so-called Chrisitan forums out there with this same exact agenda.

 

[faithfulservant]

One thing I noticed there, they have a movies section where they link to all kinds of copyrighted movies which are available illegally on youtube, and they act as if it's not stealing. Don't get me wrong, I used to watch them like that, too, but since I was born again I realized it was wrong and I can't give satan a foothold over a crummy movie hosted illegally on a website.

 

[Fellowservant]

Hello folks hope your all well...

Prophecy forums, are gonna have fun trying to push pre, mid, or post, or what have you trib Its a mystery to most including myself as to what God will and will not do during the coming great tribulation. To me, we will have to wait and see.

Jesus says he is returning after the tribulation, so im going with that basic fact for now. Will God protect us? yes he can, will he let us be martyred? look at Church history and that is also a possibility.

But one thing i do know is that he said he would shorten the days for the elects sake, so im pleased with that as well. Let God do what he does, instead of us trying to dictate to God how he should handle this.

And i think we will be better off for it in the end. We should also remember to always leave room for another interpretation, when it comes to prophecy if it makes sense.

Paul trying to explain to the Jews from prophecy itself, that Jesus was the coming Messiah was almost a no go. Why? because they had their mind set on what they believed. Lets try and not make the same mistake with rapture theory's

Good discussion and remember to be merciful even to your enemies, most defend what they believe, wright or wrong. Pray for them, as its not hard to fall if you think your standing. Don't let the evil, ungrateful foot of pride trip you up...

Grace and peace to all....

 

[greatlybeloved]

Paul trying to explain to the Jews from prophecy itself, that Jesus was the coming Messiah was almost a no go. Why? because they had their mind set on what they believed. Lets try and not make the same mistake with rapture theory's

You are right on brother! It is the attitude that makes all the difference when studying the Scriptures, especially prophecy.

2 Corinthians 4:2 *But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God

God bless!

 

[MightyAngel1]

I like your post, perhaps the pre-rapture would make more sense If it was understood that men don't run from battle cowards do. With this in mind it might become clearer what's written.

Howdy Chris and Stephen1!

Stephen1 wrote a great piece of writing on this thread. I have been on the RR message board in the past and know and understand full well what he is talking about because I have experienced what he said first hand. Sometimes, They seem to gang up on you.

You seem to show me that the Pre Tribulation Rapture does not make sense to you. No offense, but, I can understand what you are saying because many Christians, with all due respect, do not know how to explain the Pre Tribulation Rapture viewpoint. They believe it, which is very good, but explaining it in detail is as a whole a completely different matter.

I use the Law of God, as well as the Seed Covenant of Abraham, and the Covenant of Circumcision to interpret the New Testament. Once you understand these 3 elements of the Old Testament, Your understanding of the New Testament becomes crystal clear in my honest opinion.

With that in mind, Allow me a moment to show you 4 verses of Scripture, and you just look at what I post and think about what you see. Let the Holy Spirit guide your heart. Here are the 4 verses...

Acts 15:14-17

14. Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16. After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17. That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Now, looking at verse 17 above, The Greek word translated to residue is Kataloipas which means believe it or not, Left Down behind. So, When someone one is left down behind, What will happen? Someone will go up. Right?

So, The question remains...When does this left down behind occur? Answer: When the Rapture or harpazo occurs when Christ comes back for His Glorious Church without spot or wrinkle. See Ephesians 5:27 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

Did you notice verse 16? The Bible says After this, I will return. This is God speaking. God says after the calling out of the Gentiles of Acts 15:14, That He will return. Which literally means that the calling out of the Gentiles will come to an end. When will that happen? See Romans 11:25.

When the Church Age ends, [The left down behind occurs], the Tribulation period begins. This is the Day of the Lord spoken of by Amos the prophet in the Old Testament. See Amos 5:18. Paul also tells us about this time frame in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9.

Believers in Christ are of the Day. Unbelievers are of the Night. Believers in Christ are not part of the night. Which literally means that we are not in the Tribulation period because Christ returns for His Church before the Tabernacle of David is rebuilt. See Acts 15:16-17.

The Rebuilding of the Tabernacle of David occurs during the Terrible Day of the Lord which is a day of Darkness. See Daniel 9:27 and Amos 5:18. Since the Children of the Day are not part of the Day of Darkness, We are not here during the Tribulation period because we have been rescued by Jesus Christ.

Men and women of God never run from a fight, But, men and women of God can and will be rescued by Jesus Christ.

 

[MightyAngel1]

Where I know a lot of well-meaning people who believe in the idea of some kind of a "rapture before tribulation", the whole concept is so atrociously documented that it is borderline laughable.

Howdy Saul!

Who told you the PreTribulation Rapture was laughable? Do you have a Scripture reference for that? I would like to see which Scripture you are using.

Saul--Still, like I said, I know many Christians who believe it. The danger of the belief - which is one of the many reasons that I don't - is that it flies in the face of the rest of the doctrines of Scripture and emasculates one's faith.

Emasculates one's faith? How? How does the Doctrine of the PreTribulation Rapture weaken one's faith? When God says that He will return before the Tribulation period begins, Why not believe what God says? Are you too afraid to do so?

Here is something else for you to think about. If you truly believe that the Pretribulation Rapture is not Biblical, and God honors your belief, When He returns to take all believers to Heaven with Him, What will He do with you?

Answer: If God honors your belief, God will leave you behind. Now, Ask yourself this question. Is that what you truly want? For God to honor what you believe? Or, Do you think it would be more profitable for you to believe what God says He is going to do?

Saul--How? When one believes in Jesus, he must acknowledge that he (the sinner) is not worthy, but is redeemed by His blood. This means that no matter what, Jesus is enough to sustain him - even unto death. So, no matter what trials and tribulations you go through in life, He is sufficient. The "Left Behind" idea emasculates Christ because it assumes that Christ's sufficiency will not be enough for Christians to make it through God's wrath.

Well, The Bible teaches us in John 10:10b the following...Jesus says but I am come that they might have life and life more abundantly.

What you claim reminds me of this rendition of John 10:10b. It goes like this. This rendition says...But, I am come that they may suffer and suffer more abundantly. Which begs the question. Why did Christ die on the cross?

So that those who choose to believe in Him would not have to suffer from God's wrath. Paul even tells us that we are not appointed to God's Wrath. 1 Thessalonians 5:9. The Christian Church is not appointed to God's wrath.

Now, Do you stand in disagreement with Paul and God's revelation of the Christian Church? At this point, based on what you have said so far, I say that you choose to stand in disagreement possibly because you believe that you may be a member of the House of Jacob.

And, The House of Jacob has been appointed to God's wrath. See Zechariah 13:8-9. Are you a member of Jacob's Seed?

Saul--How else? Why would God rapture the end-time church to give wrath to the heathen?

Because, That is what God said He would do. Again, See Zechariah 13:8-9 and 1 Thessalonians 5:9.

Saul--Truly, if He wanted to rapture us and then torture those "Left Behind", do they now have no hope?

Nope. They have plenty of hope. What do you think the 144,000 are going to be doing? Playing Sand Golf? No. They are going to be preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom. See Matthew 24:14.

Saul--Truly, how could they have any hope when His entire church is gone?

Again, The 144,000 will be preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom. Jesus himself said this in Matthew 24:14. All you have to do is believe what Jesus says.

Saul--And, if they do have hope somehow, I guess it doesn't matter if you go through "great tribulation", because you can still be saved.

Well, That is God's plan. See Acts 15:17. God's plan is there in black and white. You can't miss it.

 

[greatlybeloved]

Who told you the PreTribulation Rapture was laughable? Do you have a Scripture reference for that? I would like to see which Scripture you are using.

While I don't laugh at sincere students of the Scriptures (even if there are mistakes), I do laugh about people (be it pretribbers, or any tribbers) believing something without even knowing if the Scriptures support that view. For example, I've seen people asking on rr-bb something like, "I believe in pre-trib rapture, but can someone help me WHERE in the Scriptures is it written!?". You see how ridiculous it is? I've answered few points of pre-trib rapture a while ago, I'm pasting it here. Please go through. May the Spirit of the LORD be our teacher.

From what I understand, the pretribulation rapture is based on the following major points (there may be others, let me know if there are any)

Reason# 1. Paul wrote to Thessalonians that the "day of the Lord]" will not overtake them. (1 Thessalonians 5:4). i.e., we (the Church) will not see the "day of the Lord"! And the "day of the Lord" means tribulation (or some say it starts at tribulation, i.e., Daniel's 70th week)

Reason# 2. First 3 chapters of Revelation have mentioned "Church" and from chapter 4 onwards, there is no mention of Church. And Rev 4 starts with John being asked "Come up hither", and it means rapture. So since the Church is raptured, there is no mention of Church in the rest of the Revelation. And then the seals will be opened and the world (along with jews) will go through tribulation, but we won't.

Reason# 3. The Holy Spirit has been restraining evil and He will be taken out when the Church is raptured and THEN "that Wicked" will be revealed and the tribulation starts (2 Thessalonians 2:7).

Reason# 4. God did not appoint us to wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), that is why we won't be in tribulation.

Let me show how shallow their interpretation is! And by the way I'm neither pretrib, nor posttrib, nor prewrath nor anything. I see loopholes in all of these interpretations.

NOTE: Please note that there might be some sarcastic and harsh language in my posts. It is not at all directed to ANY OF YOU here, I'm just pasting some old post of mine in another forum. So if anyone is offended by any of my language, please let me know, I will edit it.

Thanks,

John.

 

[greatlybeloved]

Reason# 1. Paul wrote to Thessalonians that the "day of the Lord" will not overtake them. (1 Thessalonians 5:4). i.e., we (the Church) will not see the "day of the Lord"! And the "day of the Lord" means tribulation (or some say it starts at tribulation, i.e., Daniel's 70th week)

While it is true that we will not go through the "day of the Lord", nowhere do we find in the Scriptures that the "day of the Lord" means tribulation (Daniel's 70th week or the second half of the week). To understand the beginning of the day of the Lord, we need to read Matthew 24 and Joel 2 in parallel.

The great tribulation:
The "great tribulation" starts with the "abomination of desolation" (Matthew 24:15-21). Immediately AFTER the tribulation, the sun and moon will be darkened and stars will fall from heaven, etc., So the "tribulation" or "great tribulation" mentioned in Matthew 24 ENDS before the sun/moon being darkened.

The "day of the Lord":
When we search for the "day of the Lord" in the Bible, it seems like a PERIOD rather than a single day. But according to Joel, it STARTS AFTER the sun/moon being darkened! Please read, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE the great and the terrible day of the LORD come"!!!

So this is the sequence:
1. Abomination of desolation
2. The tribulation/great tribulation
3. Sun and moon being darkened (and the fall of stars)
4. The day of the Lord begins

So when Paul says, the day of the Lord will not "overtake you as a thief", he definitely does not mean the tribulation! However my above points DO NOT prove that pretribulation is wrong. I'll be honest, it just disproves one of the points that the pretribbers use to prove pretribulation.

So pretribbers, never use 1 Thessalonians 5:4 to prove your theory. Don't just harp upon how "scriptural" your pretrib theory is, instead I'd advice you to read the Scriptures and stop relying on commentaries and pretrib books written by men.

I'll continue with other reasons soon.

God bless!

 

[greatlybeloved]

Reason# 2. First 3 chapters of Revelation have mentioned "Church" and from chapter 4 onwards, there is no mention of Church. And Rev 4 starts with John being asked "Come up hither", and it means rapture. So since the Church is raptured, there is no mention of Church in the rest of the Revelation. And then the seals will be opened and the world (along with jews) will go through tribulation, but we won't.

This is one of the popular "reasons" most of the ignorant pretrib folks give. Mere logic suggests that not mentioning of something doesn't make it non-existent. Here is what an user called "Chicken5516" writes in rr-bb:

And how can anyone miss that the Church is no where mentioned in Revelations after Chapter 4??? The Tribulation is not about the Bride. It is about Israel and the Judgement of the Nations.

How can anyone be wearing their Crowns in Heaven if the Rapture hasn't happened? You can't wear a crown if you don't have a new body!!! That HAS to mean that the Rapture has occurred, we received our NEW BODIES, the Bema Seat had happened and the Saints and Elders throwing these crowns at the feet of Jesus had already dined at the Bridal Supper and are awaiting the Great Tribulation to be over and to return WITH Jesus when He SETS HIS FEET ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES.

Was church mentioned in the Old Testament? Was there any prophecy about the New testament church in OT? How come all of a sudden church appears in Acts? And she comes up with more 'logic' saying you can't wear crowns without "new bodies" and no one gets new bodies without rapture! Really!? I wonder where did she get this idea from. The ignorant rr-bb members applaud her and she blushes and shamelessly attributes this false teaching to the Holy Spirit saying "the words just flowed....from the Holy Spirit". I use such harsh language because she accused the Spirit of God of heresy (although indirectly). For your information, Moses and Elizah had glorified bodies BEFORE rapture (atleast Moses). And how come the Lord Jesus, the king of kings didn't have a crown (with His glorified body) when He appeared to John in all His glory (Rev 1:12-16)? Don't make doctrines out of "non-mention of church" or "wearing of crowns", etc., Please come up with some Scriptural proof.

And one more,

Rev 2:8-11 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

Some of the "chuches" mentioned in Rev 1-3 are said to go through tribulation.

This unscriptural reason# 2 is refuted, more next!!!

God bless!