Beyond being saved, what must christians really do?

[Br. Bear]

And I have still not even scratch the surface of this "Battlefield". concerning this "Manifestation" of GOD.

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.


6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.


But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? but we have the mind of Christ.

1Corinthians 2:1-16


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

 

[B-A-C]

Matt 13:11; Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
Luke 8:10; And He said, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.
1Cor 4:1; Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.
1Cor 13:2; If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
Amos 3:7; Surely the Lord GOD does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets.
John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
1Jn 2:27; As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

It seems that God doesn't really have any secret mysteries for believers.

 

[Br. Bear]

Ears that hear and eyes that see—the LORD has made them both.
Proverbs 20:12

And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

for the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Acts 28:24-27

But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Matthew 13:16

 

[KingJ]

What does the Bible expect a Christian to do as proof they are saved? Is there anything that if I did not do, beyond believing in Jesus, I would not go to heaven?

Nothing further. To suggest it, is to propose that what Jesus did on the cross is not sufficient. That is the devil's playground.

Having said that, we need to acknowledge a million dollar fact. Paul pens many warnings to us in scripture. BAC has quoted many of them here. Paul's concern was that many in ''church attendance'' considered themselves saved. As such Paul said many times as in 1 Cor 6:9-12 ''do not be fooled, nobody in these sins will be in heaven''.

God does not make the mistake of permanently removing the devil from heaven. Likewise, God does not make the mistake of grafting a devil into heaven. No person gets a revelation of Jesus being Lord unless, they have truly opened up their heart to Jesus.

When He examines our hearts Jer 17:9-12, He either sees depth of intent for Him (Rom 12:9) or He does not. If He does, He draws near to us James 4:8 and then gives us a revelation of Jesus being Lord 1 Cor 12:3. At this point we are grafted into the vine and made a new creation.

Anyone who says sincerely repenting of sins and accepting Jesus as Lord is not sufficient, needs to explain why the criminal next to Jesus on the cross was able to go straight to heaven when his Christianity was not tested and tried daily as ours is.

 

[Downunder]

At this point we are grafted into the vine and made a new creation.
Anyone who says sincerely repenting of sins and accepting Jesus as Lord is not sufficient, needs to explain why the criminal next to Jesus on the cross was able to go straight to heaven when his Christianity was not tested and tried daily as ours is.

Slow down there mate. You make a lot of claims here that are your opinion or interpretation of doctrine. Fair enough but I do not agree with what you have posted.
Believing is only step one. If you believe Jesus and the gospel then you follow the instructions laid out by Jesus and the Apostles. Acts 2:38 is a good place to start. It takes more than a sinner's prayer to become a Christian.
And where does scripture claim that the thief on the cross went straight to heaven?

Luke 23:42 And he said, Jesus, remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom.
23:43 And he said to him, Amen I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise.
G3857 παράδεισος paradeisos Of Oriental [Chaldean] origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.
1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
2) a garden, pleasure ground
2a) grove, park
3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise.
Jesus did not go to heaven when he died rather he went down into the underworld and preached to the spirits there.

 

[KingJ]

Slow down there mate. You make a lot of claims here that are your opinion or interpretation of doctrine. Fair enough but I do not agree with what you have posted.

That is fine. Christians have been debating / arguing OSAS verse no OSAS for many many years.

I am in the OSAS camp, 100%. There are rational arguments based on a scriptural understanding of God that cannot be ignored. I raised two of them. I would appreciate it if you quoted arguments raised in my post and explained why you disagree.

There should not be any friction between the two camps. As long as satanic doctrines like Calvinism remain excluded.

Believing is only step one. If you believe Jesus and the gospel then you follow the instructions laid out by Jesus and the Apostles. Acts 2:38 is a good place to start. It takes more than a sinner's prayer to become a Christian.

Disagree.

Believing is ''the'' step. The ''problem'' is that not many grasp what the ''belief'' or ''faith'' is.

It is not faith in God being God. It is not faith in the unseen being seen. Saving faith , saving belief is a God given belief enabling a human to believe that a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago is God of the universe.

Consider Matt 16:16-17. Peter, the disciple with the most faith and yet he needed a revelation from God, of who Jesus was. Then we read a verse that clears all confusion, 1 Cor 12:3 ''Nobody can call Jesus Lord, except by the Holy Spirit''.

So, if the heart condition is right, the sinners prayer can be the A-Z of acceptance into the family of God.

And where does scripture claim that the thief on the cross went straight to heaven?

Luke 23:42 And he said, Jesus, remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom.
23:43 And he said to him, Amen I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise.
G3857 παράδεισος paradeisos Of Oriental [Chaldean] origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.
1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
2) a garden, pleasure ground
2a) grove, park
3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise.
Jesus did not go to heaven when he died rather he went down into the underworld and preached to the spirits there.

Correct. The criminal went to paradise.

Jesus did not ''preach'' to anyone in the context of ''believe in me and you will be saved''. He communicated what has already been done. He said ''Guys, rejoice, you can now leave paradise and be grafted into heaven''.

This makes your argument a non -issue.

The separation in Hades was ordained by God. God ordained that a divide be made between sinners in death. Nobody qualified to be with Him, but not all sinners were unrepentant. Those that were, were separated and placed in Abrahams bosom.

The evidence for this is found in Psalm 51:17. ''God will not despise a contrite and broken heart and spirit''. All God has ever wanted is truthful repentance of sin. From day one to today.

In the tribulation we see a change. In this period only rejection of the mark of the beast, ten days of torment and death gets one into heaven Rev 2:10.

A true Christian whom's heart has been judged by God Jer 17:9-12 and has received saving faith. Such a person should be able to be among those that will endure such in the tribulation. Jesus makes this clear in Matt 16:24.

 

[Downunder]

So, if the heart condition is right, the sinners prayer can be the A-Z of acceptance into the family of God.

That is not in scripture. People believed the gospel and acted on that belief and repentance to do what is commanded:
1) be baptised in water for the forgiveness of their sins [partaking spiritually in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus]
2) seek for the baptism of the Holy Spirit with signs following as evidence of this as described by Jesus himself.

A sinners prayer alone fullfils none of the above. And nowhere in the NT do Jesus and the Apostles teach faith alone as the gospel of salvation.
The word alone is added in by those who wish to support such a false doctrine.

Luke 11:13 If ye therefore, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall the Father who is from heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 

[TheWaytoGo]

What does the Bible expect a Christian to do as proof they are saved? Is there anything that if I did not do, beyond believing in Jesus, I would not go to heaven?

A book I avoided for decades, Revelation, when seriously studied a year ago, actually produced the most understanding of Who Jesus Christ is, than any of the other books. I got a real perspective of what is expected of me each and every day. Paul said he strictly disciplined his body out of fear he would be disqualified in the end (1Cor 9:27), so none of us should ever be comfortable in our walk

2Pet 2:19 (NASB) ...for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.

Rev 2:7 [KJV] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.​

​

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.​

​

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it].​

​

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:​

​

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.​

​

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.​

​

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.​

​

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.​

(John 15:10 [NASB]) “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

(John 15:14 “You are My friends if you do what I command you.


All the Commandments of Jesus

 

[B-A-C]

All the Commandments of Jesus

This comes down to the 2 prevailing mindsets on this.

I'm saved, I don't have to do these things.
..or...
I'm saved because I'm doing these things.

 

[Downunder]

I'm saved because I'm doing these things.

Doing the word of God is the best option. Perhaps with God the only option?

 

[Born Again 2004]

What does the Bible expect a Christian to do as proof they are saved? Is there anything that if I did not do, beyond believing in Jesus, I would not go to heaven?

That is for God to decide not some man!
Many Christians are carnal and Christian in name only, so they are not a good example!

A true "Born Again" Christian is not expected to do anything, they just do because they are inspired by the Holy Spirit with in! HE gets the credit for the good works, not the true Christian.

 

[Downunder]

Is there anything that if I did not do, beyond believing in Jesus, I would not go to heaven?

If you keep on sinning. Knowing better but continuing to do wrong, then ...
James 4:17
(ESV) So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
(NENT) To him therefore that knoweth to do good, and doeth not, to him it is sin.
(Weymouth) If, however, a man knows what it is right to do and yet does not do it, he commits a sin.
(YLT) to him, then, knowing to do good, and not doing, sin it is to him.

 

[B-A-C]

If you keep on sinning. Knowing better but continuing to do wrong, then ...

Rom 2:12; When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.
Rom 2:13; For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.
Rom 2:14; Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it.
Rom 2:15; They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.

Two questions here, first does anyone really not know that stealing, lying, killing, etc.. is wrong?
Second, even if they didn't know.. is ignorance an excuse for God?

 

[Downunder]

Two questions here, first does anyone really not know that stealing, lying, killing, etc.. is wrong?
Second, even if they didn't know.. is ignorance an excuse for God?

1) James is writing to Spirit-filled Pentecostal Christians. This is not address to those outside the church.
2) all human beings (bar a few psychopaths) have conscience and even primitive hunter gather societies have laws and religion.
A really good movie from South Africa to watch is "The Gods Must Be Crazy."
Generally there is no such thing as moral ignorance - C.S. Lewis addresses this in his book "Mere Christianity" with examples of the moral dilemma of choosing a thick slice of cake over a thin slice of cake.

Romans 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
2:15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them
2:16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

 

[KingJ]

That is not in scripture. People believed the gospel and acted on that belief and repentance to do what is commanded:
1) be baptised in water for the forgiveness of their sins [partaking spiritually in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus]
2) seek for the baptism of the Holy Spirit with signs following as evidence of this as described by Jesus himself.

A sinners prayer alone fullfils none of the above.

You can get baptised in water and do good works all year, it counts for naught if your initial repentance / sinners prayer / conversion does not pass God's judgement.

You have not addressed 70% of my prior post to you. Your counter to the criminal next to Jesus was that '''he went to paradise''. That is not an answer.

Jesus said to the criminal. ''Tonight you will be with me in paradise''', Jesus did not say ''tonight you will be with me in Abrahams bosom, but if you don't accept my teaching there and do good works for those three days you will go to hell and burn forever''.

Your mind is stuck on the idea of a works based salvation.

This is forgiveable, as many call themselves Christians and trample Jesus underfoot.

You are trying to put God in your box. God is not a foolish man who makes the mistake of marrying the wrong bride.

I will give you another example.

Consider Rev 2:10. Ten days torture + death = heaven.

Lets say, during the ten days of torture, the individual in question commits sin after sin. He chooses to rape a girl. He steals the lunch and supper of a kid. He is then put to death. Does he go to heaven?

 

[KingJ]

And nowhere in the NT do Jesus and the Apostles teach faith alone as the gospel of salvation.

I would not say Jesus did not. From the four gospels we don't see it, Jesus said Matt 16:24. But Jesus would have taught on Psalm 51:17. As I have already said to you. Note the ''God will not despise''.

Psalm 51:17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise

Then we have John 3:16.

I am sure you know all the sciptures that speak to it. The issue with you is the priniciple. Your mind cannot grasp how if someone merely says a simple ''sinners prayer'' they then deserve eternal bliss when they clearly continue in sin and appear hypocritical.

You need to grasp the truth of the criminal next to Jesus on the cross. You need to grasp the fact that God is not a human fool. When He cast the devil out of heaven, he did it knowing the devil was fully sold out to a love for evil and would never truly desire repentance of his sins. Likewise Jesus will never make His home in a heart that is not capable of Matt 16:24, Rev 2:10, Psalm 51:17. A heart that is, that person gets a revelation of Jesus from the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 12:3.

Anyone who is anti-OSAS mocks God's intelligence.

The word alone is added in by those who wish to support such a false doctrine.

There is a false doctrine on both sides of the coin.

Armenianism can easily fall into a works based salvation.

The reality we both disagree with is one where you have people calling themselves Christians and continuing in occasional or consistent mortal and consistent venial sins.

I would say such a person is not a Christian. God is not a fool that grafts a devil into His family.

You and BAC would say ''he was a Christian but is no longer one''.

Both positions are fine. Neither of us are God that can grasp who is truly saved. We only know each other by our fruits.

Luke 11:13 If ye therefore, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall the Father who is from heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Not sure why you posting this.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I would not say Jesus did not. From the four gospels we don't see it, Jesus said Matt 16:24. But Jesus would have taught on Psalm 51:17. As I have already said to you. Note the ''God will not despise''.

Psalm 51:17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise

Then we have John 3:16.

I am sure you know all the sciptures that speak to it. The issue with you is the priniciple. Your mind cannot grasp how if someone merely says a simple ''sinners prayer'' they then deserve eternal bliss when they clearly continue in sin and appear hypocritical.

You need to grasp the truth of the criminal next to Jesus on the cross. You need to grasp the fact that God is not a human fool. When He cast the devil out of heaven, he did it knowing the devil was fully sold out to a love for evil and would never truly desire repentance of his sins. Likewise Jesus will never make His home in a heart that is not capable of Matt 16:24, Rev 2:10, Psalm 51:17. A heart that is, that person gets a revelation of Jesus from the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 12:3.

Anyone who is anti-OSAS mocks God's intelligence.

There is a false doctrine on both sides of the coin.

Armenianism can easily fall into a works based salvation.

The reality we both disagree with is one where you have people calling themselves Christians and continuing in occasional or consistent mortal and consistent venial sins.

I would say such a person is not a Christian. God is not a fool that grafts a devil into His family.

You and BAC would say ''he was a Christian but is no longer one''.

Both positions are fine. Neither of us are God that can grasp who is truly saved. We only know each other by our fruits.

Not sure why you posting this.

OASA is ALL about God, His purpose and NOTHING from us!

 

[B-A-C]

OASA is ALL about God, His purpose and NOTHING from us!

While I don't with OSAS (once saved, always saved) I do agree with this statement the way it is worded.
OSAS believes nothing is required from us at all. It's all in God's hands.
This is why OSAS is tied very closely with predestination.
It's all in Gods hands. He chooses it all, we have no free-will. Even after we are saved we have no free-will.
We couldn't get un-saved even if we wanted to.

Of course all this is unscriptural, but since when has that stopped things from being propagated?

 

[Born Again 2004]

OASA is ALL about God, His purpose and NOTHING from us!

Anti-OSAS , are for people who don't understand the absolute perfect of our Creature!