Beyond being saved, what must christians really do?

[Born Again 2004]

Anti-OSAS , are for people who don't understand the absolute perfect of our Creature!

perfection
Creator

 

[Born Again 2004]

perfection
Creator

It could be nothing else but OSAS because GOD is absolute perfection and does not make mistakes!

 

[Born Again 2004]

It could be nothing else but OSAS because GOD is absolute perfection and does not make mistakes!

OSAS is God!

 

[KingJ]

OASA is ALL about God, His purpose and NOTHING from us!

We need to be careful of Calvinism. If we make statements like this we need to accompany it with a non-Calvinistic explanation.

 

[KingJ]

While I don't with OSAS (once saved, always saved) I do agree with this statement the way it is worded.
OSAS believes nothing is required from us at all. It's all in God's hands.
This is why OSAS is tied very closely with predestination.
It's all in Gods hands. He chooses it all, we have no free-will. Even after we are saved we have no free-will.
We couldn't get un-saved even if we wanted to.

Of course all this is unscriptural, but since when has that stopped things from being propagated?

Whilst I believe in OSAS I agree with your concern on pre-destination / unmerited favor / Calvinism.

The two do not need to be tied. OSAS is true from the moment the ''whomsoever'' decides to make Jesus Lord of their lives.

 

[Downunder]

The two do not need to be tied. OSAS is true from the moment the ''whomsoever'' decides to make Jesus Lord of their lives.

Funny how people can read the same scriptures and come up with completely opposing doctrines.
I still see that supporting OSAS requires a deliberate imposing of doctrine upon scriptures to arrive at that position.
Also a notable avoidance of the myriads of verses in scripture about losing faith, backsliding, retreating, falling away, continual sinning, etc. etc.
Jesus asked that when he returns will he find faith on the Earth? Given the claims of OSAS that question raises serious doubts what many "believers" claim to have.

Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard,
Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

 

[Born Again 2004]

We need to be careful of Calvinism. If we make statements like this we need to accompany it with a non-Calvinistic explanation.

With or without a Man like Calvin , I would feel the same...what is a non- Calvinistic explanation...Is that for you or God?

Maybe that should be OTSAS ( Once Truly Saved Always Saved)...that is for God to say NOT Man!

Do you honestly think God makes mistakes?
Once He saves someone, you honestly think that person can become un-saved;?
I thought God was perfect!

What kind of God do you serve anyway?

John 10: 28-29

 

[KingJ]

Funny how people can read the same scriptures and come up with completely opposing doctrines.
I still see that supporting OSAS requires a deliberate imposing of doctrine upon scriptures to arrive at that position.
Also a notable avoidance of the myriads of verses in scripture about losing faith, backsliding, retreating, falling away, continual sinning, etc. etc.
Jesus asked that when he returns will he find faith on the Earth? Given the claims of OSAS that question raises serious doubts what many "believers" claim to have. T

Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard,
Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

Paul's teaching does on face value look like someone can lose salvation. I feel we need to delve a bit deeper though.

Before we do, yes, the fact Paul spoke a lot on trampling Jesus underfoot and being thrown out of fellowship needs to be grasped. Everyone believing they can lose their salvation can be forgiven for believing such. This verse here from Paul is a warning to OSAS and non-OSAS 1 Cor 10:12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

Deeper analysis however reveals the following.

Paul spoke respectfully to all in attendance. He never isolated person A and person B by name and said they are truly saved whilst person C and D are not. I am sure he knew this. Being so close to the Holy Spirit. Paul's teaching and warnings on sin, isolated ''brother'' from ''brother''.

We see this in 1 Cor 5 where he says ''a brother so called''. 1 Cor 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. .

 

[KingJ]

With or without a Man like Calvin , I would feel the same...what is a non- Calvinistic explanation...Is that for you or God?

Maybe that should be OTSAS ( Once Truly Saved Always Saved)...that is for God to say NOT Man!

Do you honestly think God makes mistakes?
Once He saves someone, you honestly think that person can become un-saved;?
I thought God was perfect!

What kind of God do you serve anyway?

John 10: 28-29

The fact that God does not make mistakes is true and a strong support for OSAS.

But we need to acknowledge 1. Calvinism and 2 self judgement when we teach on OSAS.

1. Calvinism - Cherry picking people for salvation is partiality and partiality is at a height of wickedness. God is 100% impartial Acts 10:34. God can cherry pick, but He does not. He is as good as He is great.

2. Self judgement - God knows who are His. We are not God or a 'god'. Paul wants us to ''continue in'' self judgement Phil 2:12. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

When last did we get on our knees and examine our hearts and actions with fear and trembling?

 

[Born Again 2004]

The fact that God does not make mistakes is true and a strong support for OSAS.

But we need to acknowledge 1. Calvinism and 2 self judgement when we teach on OSAS.

1. Calvinism - Cherry picking people for salvation is partiality and partiality is at a height of wickedness. God is 100% impartial Acts 10:34. God can cherry pick, but He does not. He is as good as He is great.

2. Self judgement - God knows who are His. We are not God or a 'god'. Paul wants us to ''continue in'' self judgement Phil 2:12. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

When last did we get on our knees and examine our hearts and actions with fear and trembling?

I stand by my previous convictions and let God be my judge and NO Man!

 

[B-A-C]

What kind of God do you serve anyway?

John 10: 28-29

John 10:27; "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
John 10:28; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:29; "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

It appears "following" Jesus is another one of those things we "have" to do.
No one can take us away from Jesus.

Luke 9:23; And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

But even though no one can take them from Jesus, some sheep walk away on their own.

1Tim 5:15; for some have already turned aside to follow Satan.

2Cor 11:4; For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you do this willingly.

John 6:66; As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
John 6:67; So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"

So even though no one can take you away from Jesus, you're free to walk away on your own.
Also, even though no one can take you from Jesus... He Himself will throw some out.

Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 24:47; "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
Matt 24:48; ''But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,'
Matt 24:49; and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards;
Matt 24:50; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know,
Matt 24:51; and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 12:45; "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk;
Luke 12:46; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

 

[B-A-C]

I stand by my previous convictions and let God be my judge and NO Man!

1Cor 5:12; For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?

But that is a sword that cuts two ways. If we don't want people to judge us, we need to quit judging them.

"The Golden Rule"
Matt 7:12; "In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Luke 6:31; "Treat others the same way you want them to treat you.

 

[Born Again 2004]

John 10:27; "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
John 10:28; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:29; "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

It appears "following" Jesus is another one of those things we "have" to do.
No one can take us away from Jesus.

Luke 9:23; And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

But even though no one can take them from Jesus, some sheep walk away on their own.

1Tim 5:15; for some have already turned aside to follow Satan.

2Cor 11:4; For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you do this willingly.

John 6:66; As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
John 6:67; So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"

So even though no one can take you away from Jesus, you're free to walk away on your own.
Also, even though no one can take you from Jesus... He Himself will throw some out.

Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 24:47; "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
Matt 24:48; ''But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,'
Matt 24:49; and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards;
Matt 24:50; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know,
Matt 24:51; and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 12:45; "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk;
Luke 12:46; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

John 10:27; "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
John 10:28; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:29; "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

It appears "following" Jesus is another one of those things we "have" to do.
No one can take us away from Jesus.

Luke 9:23; And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

But even though no one can take them from Jesus, some sheep walk away on their own.

1Tim 5:15; for some have already turned aside to follow Satan.

2Cor 11:4; For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you do this willingly.

John 6:66; As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
John 6:67; So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"

So even though no one can take you away from Jesus, you're free to walk away on your own.
Also, even though no one can take you from Jesus... He Himself will throw some out.

Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 24:47; "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
Matt 24:48; ''But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,'
Matt 24:49; and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards;
Matt 24:50; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know,
Matt 24:51; and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 12:45; "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk;
Luke 12:46; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

1. No , your wrong,, we don't HAVE to follow Jesus, we are led to follow Jesus!
2. Sheep ,who turn their backs on Jesus never heard his voice in the first place.
3. Yes, your free to walk away but once truly saved who would want to walk away, would you?
4.He will only throw out those who falsely claim to be Christians.
5. Before coming Paul, Saul was blinded and he too had scales on His eye!

 

[B-A-C]

1. No , your wrong,, we don't HAVE to follow Jesus, we are led to follow Jesus!

Question: Do you still sin?
if yes... are you "led" to do this?
If not... then why do you do it?

 

[complete]

What does the Bible expect a Christian to do as proof they are saved?
Is there anything that if I did not do, beyond believing in Jesus, I would not go to heaven?

'And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life through His name.'
(John 20:30)

Hello there, @farout,

Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, is to believe what God has told us concerning Him. So our faith is in God, who raised Him from the dead. It is that power that in-works the believer, and produces the fruit of righteousness in His life and witness. That is God's work. We are His workmanship. The work that He has begun in us, we are assured, He will continue to do until the day of Christ.

We are saved unto good works, and our lives should reflect the saving power that works within us, for we have died unto sin, and been made alive unto God. We now walk before the Father in newness of life. Our work is to glorify Him as sons. To actively believe what He has told us, and rejoice in the finished work of Christ on our behalf, acknowledging our sonship and rejoicing in it. Loving one another, and building each other up in the faith of Christ, by this shall all men know that we are truly His.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Born Again 2004]

Question: Do you still sin?
if yes... are you "led" to do this?
If not... then why do you do it?

Ah hah! Sure I do.
No, I'm not led .
Because I'm not perfect!

NOW," Turn about is fair play", Let me ask you:
1. Are you perfect?
2. Don't you sin?

 

[B-A-C]

No, I'm not led .
Because I'm not perfect!

NOW," Turn about is fair play", Let me ask you:
1. Are you perfect?
2. Don't you sin?

I'm not perfect either, we have that in common.
But that's the whole point, we don't always do what we are led to do.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I'm not perfect either, we have that in common.
But that's the whole point, we don't always do what we are led to do.

I take that answer to "do you sin" is yes?

Yes, we don't always do what we are supposed to do and ,as we both agree, that is because we are not perfect like God, until He Glorifies us, so we can enter His presence. Agreed?

 

[complete]

Nothing further. To suggest it, is to propose that what Jesus did on the cross is not sufficient. That is the devil's playground.

Having said that, we need to acknowledge a million dollar fact. Paul pens many warnings to us in scripture. BAC has quoted many of them here. Paul's concern was that many in ''church attendance'' considered themselves saved. As such Paul said many times as in 1 Cor 6:9-12 ''do not be fooled, nobody in these sins will be in heaven''.

God does not make the mistake of permanently removing the devil from heaven. Likewise, God does not make the mistake of grafting a devil into heaven. No person gets a revelation of Jesus being Lord unless, they have truly opened up their heart to Jesus.

When He examines our hearts Jer 17:9-12, He either sees depth of intent for Him (Rom 12:9) or He does not. If He does, He draws near to us James 4:8 and then gives us a revelation of Jesus being Lord 1 Cor 12:3. At this point we are grafted into the vine and made a new creation.

Anyone who says sincerely repenting of sins and accepting Jesus as Lord is not sufficient, needs to explain why the criminal next to Jesus on the cross was able to go straight to heaven when his Christianity was not tested and tried daily as ours is.

'And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him
saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us
But the other answering rebuked him saying
Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
And we indeed justly for we receive the due reward of our deeds
but this man hath done nothing amiss
And he said unto Jesus Lord remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom
And Jesus said unto him Verily I say unto thee to day
shalt thou be with Me in paradise.'
(Luke 23:39-43)

Hello @KingJ,

Yes! The thief, acknowledged his guilt, and showed that he had faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, as to Who He was. He acknowledged the Lord Jesus Christ's Lordship: that He was the Messiah, the One for Whom Israel 'looked'; He also acknowledged His resurrection; for he declared that the Lord Jesus would come into His kingdom: and that would require that He be raised from the dead.

That man believed in his heart the Lord Jesus, and confessed with his mouth that Jesus Christ was Lord to the glory of the Father. He will be with the returning Christ in paradise, when He comes to reign, and His Kingdom come on earth as it is in Heaven, with the tree of life in it's midst as in the garden (or paradise) of God in Genesis 3. Paradise will be restored!

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

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