Beyond being saved, what must christians really do?

[Downunder]

Once He saves someone, you honestly think that person can become un-saved;?
I thought God was perfect!
What kind of God do you serve anyway?

This is childish prattle.
OSAS claims often that God cannot lose those he has in his hand or cannot lose his sheep, so therefore disciples cannot be lost or cannot be unsaved.
God is true and no fault lies with God. He does indeed know each and everyone of us.
BUT human beings are fickle. Disciples often fall away. People get deceived by false doctrines. People tire of righteousness and relapse back into the world and sin.
It is the sheep that stray and go beyond the fence. And while Jesus is the good shepherd not all sheep want to return to the fold.
OSAS grabs scriptures pertaining to to God's faithfulness and falsely claims that these verses prove that God loses nobody. To that extent there is some doctrinal truth.
BUT again, especially in the epistles to the spirit-filled churches, there are many verses pertaining to warnings and admonitions about falling away, or casting away, or being led astray, or retreating from the faith,
not remaining steadfast and so on. These scriptures would not be necessary if OSAS was true.

Hebrews 3:5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all his house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken;
3:6 but Christ as a son, over his house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the boldness and the glorying of the hope firm unto the end.

 

[Born Again 2004]

This is childish prattle.
OSAS claims often that God cannot lose those he has in his hand or cannot lose his sheep, so therefore disciples cannot be lost or cannot be unsaved.
God is true and no fault lies with God. He does indeed know each and everyone of us.
BUT human beings are fickle. Disciples often fall away. People get deceived by false doctrines. People tire of righteousness and relapse back into the world and sin.
It is the sheep that stray and go beyond the fence. And while Jesus is the good shepherd not all sheep want to return to the fold.
OSAS grabs scriptures pertaining to to God's faithfulness and falsely claims that these verses prove that God loses nobody. To that extent there is some doctrinal truth.
BUT again, especially in the epistles to the spirit-filled churches, there are many verses pertaining to warnings and admonitions about falling away, or casting away, or being led astray, or retreating from the faith,
not remaining steadfast and so on. These scriptures would not be necessary if OSAS was true.

Hebrews 3:5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all his house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken;
3:6 but Christ as a son, over his house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the boldness and the glorying of the hope firm unto the end.

I'll say it again and still comes out the same, OSAS is God.
Look at it this way for once and, yes, put scriptures aside:
1. God saves right?
2. God is perfect, correct?
3. God can not make a mistake, true?

If He purposely saves someone, isn't that person save unto eternity?

 

[Downunder]

Paul spoke respectfully to all in attendance. He never isolated person A and person B by name and said they are truly saved whilst person C and D are not.

Please stop.
OSAS is not taught and not preached by any apostle. The epistles clearly warn and admonish disciples of the Spirit-filled church that they can lose their salvation through falling away and in doing unrighteousness.
This is the other great furphy of OSAS that not all are truly saved. What a load of bunk.
In scripture you are either saved or not saved. Those who are disciples and believers of The Way in the first century would all comply with Acts 2:38 and all would have the signs following, especially being able to pray in a new tongue.
Paul would not refer to a man as a brother if he was not a disciple in the church at Corinth. In the first century there was only one way, one faith, one baptism (water and Spirit), one church.
Brethren in the body of Christ were all of those who obediently complied with Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:15-18

Romans 16:16 Salute one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of the Christ salute you.
16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark those causing the divisions and the stumblings, contrary to the teaching which ye learned: and turn away from them.
16:18 For the such are not bondmen of our Lord Christ, but of their own belly; and by their smooth and fair speech they deceive the hearts of the innocent.
16:19 For your obedience is come unto all. I rejoice therefore over you: but I would have you wise unto what is good, and harmless unto what is evil.

 

[Downunder]

Sheep ,who turn their backs on Jesus never heard his voice in the first place.
3. Yes, your free to walk away but once truly saved who would want to walk away, would you?

What nonsense is this?
One cannot be a sheep at all if one did not hear the voice of God calling and commit to following Jesus as a disciple. Unbelievers are not sheep.
You have shot down your own doctrine of OSAS with that question.
You may not understand why others would walk away from Christ, but the tragedy of the real world is that many Christians really do just that.
And this "truly saved" business in OSAS is another false doctrine. People who are truly saved do fall away and go back into the world.
I know of quite a few who have thrown in the towel and started living like worldly people.
They have forgotten that they were cleansed from their former sins just as Peter warned.

 

[Born Again 2004]

There

What nonsense is this?
One cannot be a sheep at all if one did not hear the voice of God calling and commit to following Jesus as a disciple. Unbelievers are not sheep.
You have shot down your own doctrine of OSAS with that question.
You may not understand why others would walk away from Christ, but the tragedy of the real world is that many Christians really do just that.
And this "truly saved" business in OSAS is another false doctrine. People who are truly saved do fall away and go back into the world.
I know of quite a few who have thrown in the towel and started living like worldly people.

Sheep is an analogy.
Good grief, Jesus used it enough.
Yes, unbelievers are not Sheep, if the die that way..they are GOATS.
Another Biblical analogy.
You apparently don't understand the Bible!

 

[Born Again 2004]

What nonsense is this?
One cannot be a sheep at all if one did not hear the voice of God calling and commit to following Jesus as a disciple. Unbelievers are not sheep.
You have shot down your own doctrine of OSAS with that question.
You may not understand why others would walk away from Christ, but the tragedy of the real world is that many Christians really do just that.
And this "truly saved" business in OSAS is another false doctrine. People who are truly saved do fall away and go back into the world.
I know of quite a few who have thrown in the towel and started living like worldly people.

They are to be pitied!

 

[Born Again 2004]

What nonsense is this?
One cannot be a sheep at all if one did not hear the voice of God calling and commit to following Jesus as a disciple. Unbelievers are not sheep.
You have shot down your own doctrine of OSAS with that question.
You may not understand why others would walk away from Christ, but the tragedy of the real world is that many Christians really do just that.
And this "truly saved" business in OSAS is another false doctrine. People who are truly saved do fall away and go back into the world.
I know of quite a few who have thrown in the towel and started living like worldly people.
They have forgotten that they were cleansed from their former sins just as Peter warned.

Since you chimed in and are outspoken on the subject , please address # 3 directly.

 

[Downunder]

They are to be pitied!

Why?
According to OSAS they cannot lose their salvation. So the "truly" saved will never be lost according to you.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Why?
According to OSAS they cannot lose their salvation. So the "truly" saved will never be lost according to you.

You just don't get it do you?
OR , YOU are so blinded to OSAS, you don't want to.
How do you know they were " truly" saved. Again Jesus said, " My Sheep know my voice "...these are the truly saved.
There will be a many self- proclaimed Christian that Jesus will deny in the end he said as much...you don't believe him?

 

[Downunder]

How do you know they were " truly" saved. Again Jesus said, " My Sheep know my voice "...these are the truly saved.

This yet another truly great falsehoods at the centre of OSAS - truly saved.
So who are the truly saved according to commandments given by our God and saviour Jesus Christ?
And these truly saved disciples are to whom the apostles do warn and admonish as to the perils of losing their salvation.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Please stop.
OSAS is not taught and not preached by any apostle. The epistles clearly warn and admonish disciples of the Spirit-filled church that they can lose their salvation through falling away and in doing unrighteousness.
This is the other great furphy of OSAS that not all are truly saved. What a load of bunk.
In scripture you are either saved or not saved. Those who are disciples and believers of The Way in the first century would all comply with Acts 2:38 and all would have the signs following, especially being able to pray in a new tongue.
Paul would not refer to a man as a brother if he was not a disciple in the church at Corinth. In the first century there was only one way, one faith, one baptism (water and Spirit), one church.
Brethren in the body of Christ were all of those who obediently complied with Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:15-18

Romans 16:16 Salute one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of the Christ salute you.
16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark those causing the divisions and the stumblings, contrary to the teaching which ye learned: and turn away from them.
16:18 For the such are not bondmen of our Lord Christ, but of their own belly; and by their smooth and fair speech they deceive the hearts of the innocent.
16:19 For your obedience is come unto all. I rejoice therefore over you: but I would have you wise unto what is good, and harmless unto what is evil.

The Trinity wasn't taught by the Apostle's either, do you deny trinity because you won't find the word in the Bible either?

 

[Born Again 2004]

You just don't get it do you?
OR , YOU are so blinded to OSAS, you don't want to.
How do you know they were " truly" saved. Again Jesus said, " My Sheep know my voice "...these are the truly saved.
There will be a many self- proclaimed Christian that Jesus will deny in the end he said as much...you don't believe him?

You can't or won't answer the question? Do you believe what Jesus about denying these people?

 

[Downunder]

The Trinity wasn't taught by the Apostle's either, do you deny trinity because you won't find the word in the Bible either?

The Trinity is a doctrine (a mystery revealed) not just a word.
But OSAS is not scriptural and as a doctrine is not taught by Jesus and the apostles.

 

[Born Again 2004]

What nonsense is this?
One cannot be a sheep at all if one did not hear the voice of God calling and commit to following Jesus as a disciple. Unbelievers are not sheep.
You have shot down your own doctrine of OSAS with that question.
You may not understand why others would walk away from Christ, but the tragedy of the real world is that many Christians really do just that.
And this "truly saved" business in OSAS is another false doctrine. People who are truly saved do fall away and go back into the world.
I know of quite a few who have thrown in the towel and started living like worldly people.
They have forgotten that they were cleansed from their former sins just as Peter warned.

The Trinity is a doctrine (a mystery revealed) not just a word.
But OSAS is not scriptural and as a doctrine is not taught by Jesus and the apostles.

Do you have scripture for that?

 

[Downunder]

Do you have scripture for that?

YEs read from Matthew 1:1 through to Revelation 3:22

 

[Born Again 2004]

Do you have scripture for that?

YEs read from Matthew 1:1 through to Revelation 3:22

O.k., let's take this step by step; first, let's listen to or talk about the Spirit.
So to be "truly" saved, (simplified)...one believes and God puts the Holy Spirit inside that person, right?

 

[Downunder]

O.k., let's take this step by step; first, let's listen to or talk about the Spirit.
So to be "truly" saved, (simplified)...one believes and God puts the Holy Spirit inside that person, right?

No

 

[Born Again 2004]

No

We didn't get very far did? Don't suppose you want any scripture that says differently?

 

[KingJ]

Please stop.
OSAS is not taught and not preached by any apostle. The epistles clearly warn and admonish disciples of the Spirit-filled church that they can lose their salvation through falling away and in doing unrighteousness.
This is the other great furphy of OSAS that not all are truly saved. What a load of bunk.
In scripture you are either saved or not saved. Those who are disciples and believers of The Way in the first century would all comply with Acts 2:38 and all would have the signs following, especially being able to pray in a new tongue.
Paul would not refer to a man as a brother if he was not a disciple in the church at Corinth. In the first century there was only one way, one faith, one baptism (water and Spirit), one church.
Brethren in the body of Christ were all of those who obediently complied with Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:15-18

Romans 16:16 Salute one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of the Christ salute you.
16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark those causing the divisions and the stumblings, contrary to the teaching which ye learned: and turn away from them.
16:18 For the such are not bondmen of our Lord Christ, but of their own belly; and by their smooth and fair speech they deceive the hearts of the innocent.
16:19 For your obedience is come unto all. I rejoice therefore over you: but I would have you wise unto what is good, and harmless unto what is evil.

Downunder, OSAS is true.

There are many scriptures and examples in scripture that you are not grasping. I will give you my top 4.

1. Criminal next to Jesus

One decision from a depth of intent to repent and bow to Jesus. Then promised to be ''with'' Him.

2. Rev 2:10

After the rapture, death and only death reveals depth of intent. No amount of ''charity'' work matters.

3. John 3:16

A prophetic verse, ''those who believe in Jesus'' will be saved. We see Peter believe in Jesus in Matt 16:16-17, we see Paul tell all that belief in Jesus is only via the Holy Spirit in 1 Cor 12:3.

And lastly....

4. John 15:13 / The cross itself.

One act at a depth of intent from God reveals His heart to us. God does not need to do anything further for us to know His love for us. Meditate on this fact.

There is no greater love then to lay your life down for a friend. You have either sunk to such a depth of intent or you have not. Only being at such a depth of intent qualifies one for a revelation of Jesus.

Example:

Lets say you are in the army with two guys that have bullied you their entire lives.

Person A - He takes a bullet for you. This bullet was going to kill you, he sacrifices his own life for yours.

Person B - Cannot take a bullet for you. But goes around collecting donations for your injuries. Doctor's bills. Makes you regular cups of coffee.

Person B will never be fully trusted by you. Person A will without any second thought be on the list for a party at your house. You will never boot person A out of your house!!! Never!!

Conclusion:

OSAS is true, what you espouse wreaks of a works based salvation. Playing tiddly winks when God wants the real thing.

 

[KingJ]

Those who are disciples and believers of The Way in the first century would all comply with Acts 2:38 and all would have the signs following, especially being able to pray in a new tongue.

You can pray in any tongue you want until the cows come home. It matters naught to God.

Matt 7:22-23 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Paul would not refer to a man as a brother if he was not a disciple in the church at Corinth. In the first century there was only one way, one faith, one baptism (water and Spirit), one church.
Brethren in the body of Christ were all of those who obediently complied with Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:15-18

Whilst there is some truth to being 'sanctified'. No. You have not grasped 1 Cor 5. Gal 6:1 says we must restore a brother in love. In 1 Cor 5, Paul says remove this person guilty of incest, do not even eat with him.

Romans 16:16 Salute one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of the Christ salute you.
16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark those causing the divisions and the stumblings, contrary to the teaching which ye learned: and turn away from them.
16:18 For the such are not bondmen of our Lord Christ, but of their own belly; and by their smooth and fair speech they deceive the hearts of the innocent.
16:19 For your obedience is come unto all. I rejoice therefore over you: but I would have you wise unto what is good, and harmless unto what is evil.

This is Paul urging us to identify the wolves / fake Christians among us....who attend meetings as ''brethren''. This verse re-enforces all I have been saying. How does it justify non-OSAS?