Can a Christian person have demons?

[God's Truth]

I wasn't speaking against you, I can understand your perspective and mostly agree with it.

So glad to hear you say that. I really do care and really was just sharing how I got saved. Everything I am saying to you though is in the Bible. I was searching for God in different denominations and got so overwhelmed with all the different denominations there are and so I just started doing what Jesus said to do in the New Testament. I did have to stop doubting. I am also so glad that I didn't harden my heart to others when they told me to repent for getting involved with a false denomination in my search for God. It can be easy to harden one's heart when you have someone else telling you to repent.

I remember this one guy I was friends with telling me that I might have repented for my sins but that I also needed to repent for getting involved in a false church, the Mormon church. I told him why I would repent for that when I only got involved in it because I was searching for God. I wanted to tell him to mind his own business and I wanted to tell him he has nerve to tell me to repent for anything because he drank too much and did other sinful stuff. Again, so glad I didn't harden my heart and just made it between Jesus and me and I repented again like my friend suggested for getting involved in a false denomination. It was probably the last thing I had left to repent of doing, and things really got serious after that. Demons came through my window and started to swarm around me and I said Jesus help me, and he did.

 

[Garee]

You are just going against Paul. Don't know how you can feel comfortable going against the Apostle Paul.

You aren't making sense to me.

The Bible doesn't say what you are saying.

It most certainly does teach that. .No such thing as out of the body experiences .They as lies from the father of lies are not a source of Christian faith . Study the meaning of faith.

 

[Garee]

It sounds like you don't have faith that God can make sure His words are preserved for us in the Bible.

I was just trying to help you.

It takes faith and obedience.

I like what Kenneth Copeland said one time when he said if you keep doubting just say get away Satan in Jesus' name.
You can say that a hundred times a day if you have to, but it does get easier.

It takes whose work of faith as a labor of love. ? The faith of God?

The bible declares mankind faithless or powerless. None not little.

Doubting is not the opposite of faith, unbelief is (again unconverted mankind no faith that could please God

Romans 11:31-33King James Version Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

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[God's Truth]

It most certainly does teach that. .No such thing as out of the body experiences .They as lies from the father of lies are not a source of Christian faith . Study the meaning of faith.

Not just because you say so. Give the scripture that says exactly what you said.

 

[God's Truth]

It takes whose work of faith as a labor of love. ? The faith of God?

The bible declares mankind faithless or powerless. None not little.

Doubting is not the opposite of faith, unbelief is (again unconverted mankind no faith that could please God

Romans 11:31-33King James Version Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

​

What exactly are you trying to say you need to explain better are you saying no one ever believed and obeyed God? If that is what you are saying that is nonsense.

That scripture you quoted is about how the Gentiles didn't use to believe and obey God when the Jews did, and how most of the Jews now didn't believe and obey Jesus.

So all are bound to the same place.

It is about how Jews and Gentiles have to believe and obey Jesus to be saved and no longer condemned.

 

[Garee]

What exactly are you trying to say you need to explain better are you saying no one ever believed and obeyed God? If that is what you are saying that is nonsense.

That scripture you quoted is about how the Gentiles didn't use to believe and obey God when the Jews did, and how most of the Jews now didn't believe and obey Jesus.

So all are bound to the same place.

It is about how Jews and Gentiles have to believe and obey Jesus to be saved and no longer condemned.

I am saying no one ever believed God before God gave them His faith to make it possible. Before we became born again through a labor of his love we had no faith not little none.

Again doubt it is not the opposite of faith . No faith is.

 

[Shaolin]

The Bible doesn't say that though that a ghost is a angel or a demon.

You are right, it does not...we must remember that logic is based upon mathematics, so let's take this by the numbers:

1. Scripture tells us that human beings have a spirit.
2. Scripture tells us that when a human being dies, his spirit goes to either heaven or hell immediately, there is no lingering behind upon the earth.
3. Demons are spirits, as are angels (in fact, demons are just fallen angels, they are not two different kinds of spirits).
4. Scripture tells us that the whole purpose of demons is to deceive people so that they end up in the lake of fire - that is all they do. They are wicked spirits, they are responsible many times for people committing heinous crimes, such as rape, child molestation, etc.
5. Scripture tells us that demons possess people, that they masquerade as dead human spirits in seances and the like, and that they haunt people and places.

When we take all of these things together, Scripture tells us through implication that ghosts are NOT human spirits. Remember that we not only have to pay attention to what Scripture says directly, but we must also pay attention to what it implies as well as what it does not say.

An out of body experience is with the spirit of the person.

Correct, since demons do not have physical bodies (having said that, Scripture demonstrates that they can manifest physical bodies if they want to, as ex-satanists have testified to).

I gave scriptures to prove it.

Yes, and I agree...Paul was killed at least one time by being stoned to death and his spirit left his body and went to heaven...but his time was not up yet, so God sent him back. He had a genuine out of body experience because he had died. I agree with your point there.

The pharisees didn't think Jesus was an angel or a demon they knew he was a man.

Yes...and while they knew He was a man, they rejected the truth that He was also Yahweh in the flesh.

Blessings!

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[God's Truth]

I am saying no one ever believed God before God gave them His faith to make it possible. Before we became born again through a labor of his love we had no faith not little none.

Again doubt it is not the opposite of faith . No faith is.

No such thing as being enabled to have faith. All are born with ability.

 

[God's Truth]

You are right, it does not...we must remember that logic is based upon mathematics, so let's take this by the numbers:

I will give great consideration to what you have to say.

1. Scripture tells us that human beings have a spirit.

Right.

2. Scripture tells us that when a human being dies, his spirit goes to either heaven or hell immediately, there is no lingering behind upon the earth.

Scriptures don't say that spirits go immediately to heaven or hell.

And, even if spirits of humans go immediately to heaven or hell, it doesn't mean they can't come to earth after that, for Moses and Elijah came to visit Jesus on earth in their spirit, so we know they definitely can.

3. Demons are spirits, as are angels (in fact, demons are just fallen angels, they are not two different kinds of spirits).

No scripture calls ghosts 'demons'.
The apostles even thought Jesus might be a ghost after he rose from the dead.
Do you want to claim they thought Jesus was a demon?

4. Scripture tells us that the whole purpose of demons is to deceive people so that they end up in the lake of fire - that is all they do. They are wicked spirits, they are responsible many times for people committing heinous crimes, such as rape, child molestation, etc.

That has nothing to do with you trying to prove people can't leave their body.

5. Scripture tells us that demons possess people, that they masquerade as dead human spirits in seances and the like, and that they haunt people and places.

That is just what you think happened with in that passage.

When we take all of these things together, Scripture tells us through implication that ghosts are NOT human spirits.

No way, lol, don't know how you determined that.

Remember that we not only have to pay attention to what Scripture says directly, but we must also pay attention to what it implies as well as what it does not say.

I consider it all carefully.

Yes, and I agree...Paul was killed at least one time by being stoned to death and his spirit left his body and went to heaven...but his time was not up yet, so God sent him back. He had a genuine out of body experience because he had died. I agree with your point there.

No, I do not think that is when Paul left his body and seen things from Jesus.

Paul saying he could have been out of the body is proof that it doesn't mean all ghosts are demons.

Yes...and while they knew He was a man, they rejected the truth that He was also Yahweh in the flesh.



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What on earth does that have to do with it?
They knew he was on earth as a man and had no problem thinking he spoke to Paul as a spirit after he died.

 

[joestue]

The issue with Jesus having a physical body after death is that entropy itself has to be reversed by God to make that happen.

This issue is core to Christianity although many Christians disregard it and say the earth and heavens being rolled up like a scroll at the end of days means this whole universe is tossed into a black hole (or equivalent dumpster fire) and completely destroyed.


This is not what will happen. Rather entropy itself is the last enemy to be destroyed. It is the same thing as death. The earth and all that is in it will be transformed into the new earth. Likewise with the new heaven. All entropy and evil in it will be destroyed.

If you want to blow a gasket, go talk to people who claim to have spiritually given birth to human demon hybrids. One person I know of claims to have aborted hers, half way through the birth. She says Jesus sometimes gives her peace about what happened.

 

[Shaolin]

Scriptures don't say that spirits go immediately to heaven or hell.

And, even if spirits of humans go immediately to heaven or hell, it doesn't mean they can't come to earth after that, for Moses and Elijah came to visit Jesus on earth in their spirit, so we know they definitely can.

Doesn't it?

Philippians 1:23
I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

2 Corinthians 5:8
Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Luke 16:22-23
22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

As I stated earlier (but I can't remember which thread), we must pay attention to every word, because not all things are written, some things are directly, or indirectly, implied. Paul implies directly that when a Christian dies, he goes straight into the presence of the Lord (heaven). Jesus implies a truth that when wicked people die, they go straight to hell...there is no lingering on the earth. What's more, this truth is found in present experience...any born again Christian who is currently walking with God and in Christ, if they are confronted by a "ghost" they can rebuke it in Jesus' name and the demon will have to leave, he has no choice. On the contrary, we have no power over a human being in Jesus' name because that was not what such power and authority was given for. IF a "ghost" was actually a disembodied human spirit, rebuking it in Jesus' name would have absolutely no effect...to date, I have never heard of that happening. I have heard of people (like the seven sons of Sceva) try to cast a demon (or ghost) out of a dwelling or person, and because they were not saved, the spirit didn't listen to them because they don't have to...that is why catholic priests have to stand there for hours and hours, adjuring the demon to come out of a person when they perform an excercism...because they usually aren't saved so the demon doesn't have to listen.

No scripture calls ghosts 'demons'.

You are correct, but then again, we come to these conclusions by gleaning what Scripture says that directly or indirectly touches on the subject, for example:

Matthew 14:26
But when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, "It is a ghost!" and they cried out in fear.

By this time, they had been with Jesus for at least 2 years, and they had not only saw Jesus dealing with demons, but they themselves had cast them out of people. I doubt that they thought this was a demon because they knew they have power over demons - the only logical conclusion is that they thought a "ghost" was the disembodied spirit of a human being...

The apostles even thought Jesus might be a ghost after he rose from the dead.

Actually, the word there in the Greek is spirit, not ghost...but I know what you mean.

Do you want to claim they thought Jesus was a demon?

That would be foolish, and I am not a fool.

That has nothing to do with you trying to prove people can't leave their body.

Aside from death, the ONLY way a human being can leave their physical bodies and astral project themselves, is through demonic forces. It is not in the power of human beings to be able to do that because God did not create us in order to do that. This is new age nonsense that you are talking about.

That is just what you think happened with in that passage.

No, I had no passage in mind in typing that. We get that from what Saul did with Samuel after he died...

1 Samuel 28:8-15
8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, "Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you."
9 The woman said to him, "Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the necromancers from the land. Why then are you laying a trap for my life to bring about my death?"
10 But Saul swore to her by the LORD, "As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing."
11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" He said, "Bring up Samuel for me."
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul."
13 The king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a god coming up out of the earth."
14 He said to her, "What is his appearance?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage.
15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" Saul answered, "I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do."

The witch was in league with demons, and she was expecting one of her demons to come up and impersonate Samuel...but when she saw that it wasn't a demon but actually Samuel (because God allowed it this one time), she screamed. We KNOW it was actually Samuel, because Scripture says that "Samuel said..." If it wasn't Samuel, then it would say something else...God does not lie. All of the Scriptural evidence teaches that humans go to heaven or hell when they die, they do not stick around on earth...and people cannot astral project unless they are demon possessed.

I have presented the facts...you can either take the truth, or continue believing false teachings. I will not address this subject again.

No way, lol, don't know how you determined that.

Well, I JUST gave you the evidence...so again...

I consider it all carefully.

I do hope so, because it only takes believing one false teaching that opens the door to more and more to come...

No, I do not think that is when Paul left his body and seen things from Jesus.

Then you are again reading into Scripture what your bias wants you to believe instead of what Scripture clearly teaches us. Paul was NOT demon possessed, he could not astral project his spirit out of his body.

Paul saying he could have been out of the body is proof that it doesn't mean all ghosts are demons.

Nope...it is proof that when he died from being stoned to death, and left his body. That is all. Astral projection, again, can only be accomplished if one is demon possessed, the new agers do it all the time. If you are going to mix new age doctrines with Scripture, then you demonstrate that you are not born again nor walking with God...because the two religions are diametrically opposed to one another.

What on earth does that have to do with it?
They knew he was on earth as a man and had no problem thinking he spoke to Paul as a spirit after he died.

Christ's divinity? Nothing, really...I just threw that in there. As for the second sentence, WRONG!!! You are talking about the Pharisees, and they did not believe in spirits.

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[Garee]

1. Scripture tells us that human beings have a spirit.
2. Scripture tells us that when a human being dies, his spirit goes to either heaven or hell immediately, there is no lingering behind upon the earth.
3. Demons are spirits, as are angels (in fact, demons are just fallen angels, they are not two different kinds of spirits).
4. Scripture tells us that the whole purpose of demons is to deceive people so that they end up in the lake of fire - that is all they do. They are wicked spirits, they are responsible many times for people committing heinous crimes, such as rape, child molestation, etc.
5. Scripture tells us that demons possess people, that they masquerade as dead human spirits in seances and the like, and that they haunt people and places.

Yes all humans mankind as born again believers like Abel the first apostle sent as a messenger the Spirit of Christ working in him the first listed martyr .

They will rise on the last day and receive the propmised new body as "sons of God"

How beautiful are their feet shod with the gospel . No power coming from them . They simply plant and water if any increase it comes from Christ .

Demons are not not considered sons of God as messengers or what some call angels a Greek word that means messenger . Satan a spirit of God as lucifer was to protect the glory of God rather than usurp it . Did God really say? The spirit of false apostles false prophets the one spirit that works in many antichrists' as false apostles

Angels as sons of God are not a separate creation.

Apostles sent as messengers .

But the Spirit of God is not limited the feet. Christ's living word works in us to both reveal his will and empower one to perform it to his good pleasure. Just as he worked in the Son of man .Jesus There was no other created being. God's living abiding word brings the messages of God .

Luke 22:42-44King James Version42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel (message from the Father) unto him from heaven, strengthening him.And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

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[God's Truth]

Doesn't it?

Philippians 1:23
I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

2 Corinthians 5:8
Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Paul knew where he was going though and where he wanted to go.
No way does that say he couldn't have an out of body experience though when he was alive, FOR PAUL HIMSELF THOUGHT HE DID.
You want to keep going against that truth is just strange to me.

Luke 16:22-23
22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

Those scriptures do show that people went somewhere after death, but it still doesn't prove that all do, and, it doesn't prove that no one still alive can leave their body---and that is what we are really discussing now.

As I stated earlier (but I can't remember which thread), we must pay attention to every word, because not all things are written, some things are directly, or indirectly, implied.

Right, but again, no scripture you are giving says all ghosts are demons, and no scripture shows that even some ghosts are demons.

I only speak what scriptures say, but, I do understand that what they say might imply that which it doesn't come out plainly saying, but still, no scripture is doing that when it comes to seeing a ghost, which is the same as saying a spirit.

We know that angels are spirits and are not bad, and we know demons are spirits are bad. We also know that people are spirit too and some are good and some are bad.

The point is no scripture you gave show that a person who is alive can't leave their body, and no scripture you gave says all ghosts are demons. That goes against the scriptures to say that.

What's more, this truth is found in present experience...any born again Christian who is currently walking with God and in Christ, if they are confronted by a "ghost" they can rebuke it in Jesus' name and the demon will have to leave, he has no choice.

You have not proved all ghosts are demons.
So to rebuke something as being a demon is wrong to do.

God is a Spirit. Angels are spirits. Humans have spirits within them.

How do you think you can get by with saying all ghosts seen are demons is just not being careful.

See what the angel said to the women:


Matthew 28:5 The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified.


The angel/spirit said don't be afraid.
The angel/spirit appeared and the first thing said is don't be afraid.
Here is another instance where an angel appeared to a human and the first reaction was fear.


Luke 1:11And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

How anyone can read all the scriptures I gave and still not believe that not all spirits are demons is a shame really.

IF a "ghost" was actually a disembodied human spirit, rebuking it in Jesus' name would have absolutely no effect...to date,

Well I don't see how someone should ever rebuke a ghost as all are a demon when it isn't, the truth matters. However, you can still talk to the ghost and try to persuade it to go. It still doesn't mean it was a demon.

I have never heard of that happening. I have heard of people (like the seven sons of Sceva) try to cast a demon (or ghost) out of a dwelling or person, and because they were not saved, the spirit didn't listen to them because they don't have to...that is why catholic priests have to stand there for hours and hours, adjuring the demon to come out of a person when they perform an excercism...because they usually aren't saved so the demon doesn't have to listen.

Right, in the case with those trying to cast out demons who didn't know Jesus, they couldn't cast those demons out.

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.


However, those who did know of Jesus but weren't born again, not saved, they could cast out demons but not be saved themselves:

Matthew 7:21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


We have to repent of our sins to get saved. I think you know that from my reading many of your posts and glad for the truth you speak about it.

You are correct, but then again, we come to these conclusions by gleaning what Scripture says that directly or indirectly touches on the subject, for example:

Matthew 14:26
But when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, "It is a ghost!" and they cried out in fear.

By this time, they had been with Jesus for at least 2 years, and they had not only saw Jesus dealing with demons, but they themselves had cast them out of people. I doubt that they thought this was a demon because they knew they have power over demons - the only logical conclusion is that they thought a "ghost" was the disembodied spirit of a human being...

They were scared of the ghost and shouldn't be scared of demons since they were casting out demons, but they were still scared, probably because one doesn't know for sure if the ghost/spirit is good or bad.

Actually, the word there in the Greek is spirit, not ghost...but I know what you mean.

You don't believe they are the same?

That would be foolish, and I am not a fool.

lol I was just trying to drive the point home. So since they thought Jesus was a ghost, doesn't that prove not all ghosts were demons?

Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them in his resurrected body, but they thought he might be a ghost, since that is a time spirits can leave their body after death.

All ghosts CANNOT be demons or else they would not still think that Jesus was a demon. For they were wondering if Jesus was a ghost. They weren't wondering if he was a demon. Are you getting what I am saying now?

Outside from death, the ONLY way a human being can leave their physical bodies and astral project themselves, is through demonic forces. It is not in the power of human beings to be able to do that because God did not create us in order to do that. This is new age nonsense that you are talking about.

See what you did, you closed your mind to what you should have just discovered, and that is that not all ghosts are demons.
I am not talking new age stuff.
I am speaking ONLY of the Bible.

No, I had no passage in mind in typing that. We get that from what Saul did with Samuel after he died...

You had no passage in mind, you say, but that is the only passage that speaks of what you said.

1 Samuel 28:8-15
8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, "Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you."
9 The woman said to him, "Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the necromancers from the land. Why then are you laying a trap for my life to bring about my death?"
10 But Saul swore to her by the LORD, "As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing."
11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" He said, "Bring up Samuel for me."
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul."
13 The king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a god coming up out of the earth."
14 He said to her, "What is his appearance?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage.
15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" Saul answered, "I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do."

The witch was in league with demons, and she was expecting one of her demons to come up and impersonate Samuel...but when she saw that it wasn't a demon but actually Samuel (because God allowed it this one time), she screamed. We KNOW it was actually Samuel, because Scripture says that "Samuel said..." If it wasn't Samuel, then it would say something else...God does not lie. All of the Scriptural evidence teaches that humans go to heaven or hell when they die, they do not stick around on earth...and people cannot astral project unless they are demon possessed.

You did something right there different than what people with the false belief that all ghosts are demons do, and that is that they claim that it was really a demon who came and spoke to Saul, but you say it wasn't a demon. WHICH PROVES NOT ALL GHOSTS ARE DEMONS. Think about it more.

You admit that it was Samuel!

There is no way that you can call all ghosts demons and post that passage and say it was Samuel's spirit.

I have presented the facts...you can either take the truth, or continue believing false teachings. I will not address this subject again.

LOL

Well, I JUST gave you the evidence...so again...

You have helped me in proving that NOT all ghosts are demons.

I do hope so, because it only takes believing one false teaching that opens the door to more and more to come...

You just can't possibly still believe that all spirits are demons, for I gave you scriptures that the living Paul spoke of doing such a thing, and even the apostle John while ALIVE; and, Jesus was thought to be a ghost while alive and after death; and, Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus as ghosts; and, angels appeared to people and told them not to be afraid.

The Apostles even thought that Jesus was a ghost/spirit, and NOT A DEMON. That should be enough to change your mind, but you still haven't.

Then you are again reading into Scripture what your bias wants you to believe instead of what Scripture clearly teaches us. Paul was NOT demon possessed, he could not astral project his spirit out of his body.

No way was Paul demon possessed. How can you say such a thing? Do you think that Paul would suggest he left his body and failed to mentioned that he died? You can't ADD TO THE SCRIPTURES. Not only did Paul suggest he traveled out of his body, John also does this in Revelation.

Christ's divinity? Nothing, really...I just threw that in there. As for the second sentence, WRONG!!! You are talking about the Pharisees, and they did not believe in spirits.

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The scripture says PLAINLY that the Pharisees believed in spirits and angels.

Acts 23:8 (The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.)

9 And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.

 

[God's Truth]

The issue with Jesus having a physical body after death is that entropy itself has to be reversed by God to make that happen.

This issue is core to Christianity although many Christians disregard it and say the earth and heavens being rolled up like a scroll at the end of days means this whole universe is tossed into a black hole (or equivalent dumpster fire) and completely destroyed.


This is not what will happen. Rather entropy itself is the last enemy to be destroyed. It is the same thing as death. The earth and all that is in it will be transformed into the new earth. Likewise with the new heaven. All entropy and evil in it will be destroyed.

If you want to blow a gasket, go talk to people who claim to have spiritually given birth to human demon hybrids. One person I know of claims to have aborted hers, half way through the birth. She says Jesus sometimes gives her peace about what happened.

That sounds like people who kill their children because they think the child is evil.

We are to be careful not to go beyond what is written. Where does the Bible says to abort babies because they might be demons?

 

[Shaolin]

Paul knew where he was going though and where he wanted to go.
No way does that say he couldn't have an out of body experience though when he was alive, FOR PAUL HIMSELF THOUGHT HE DID.
You want to keep going against that truth is just strange to me.

Those scriptures do show that people went somewhere after death, but it still doesn't prove that all do, and, it doesn't prove that no one still alive can leave their body---and that is what we are really discussing now.


Right, but again, no scripture you are giving says all ghosts are demons, and no scripture shows that even some ghosts are demons.

I only speak what scriptures say, but, I do understand that what they say might imply that which it doesn't come out plainly saying, but still, no scripture is doing that when it comes to seeing a ghost, which is the same as saying a spirit.

We know that angels are spirits and are not bad, and we know demons are spirits are bad. We also know that people are spirit too and some are good and some are bad.

The point is no scripture you gave show that a person who is alive can't leave their body, and no scripture you gave says all ghosts are demons. That goes against the scriptures to say that.

You have not proved all ghosts are demons.
So to rebuke something as being a demon is wrong to do.

God is a Spirit. Angels are spirits. Humans have spirits within them.

How do you think you can get by with saying all ghosts seen are demons is just not being careful.

See what the angel said to the women:


Matthew 28:5 The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified.


The angel/spirit said don't be afraid.
The angel/spirit appeared and the first thing said is don't be afraid.
Here is another instance where an angel appeared to a human and the first reaction was fear.


Luke 1:11And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

How anyone can read all the scriptures I gave and still not believe that not all spirits are demons is a shame really.


Well I don't see how someone should ever rebuke a ghost as all are a demon when it isn't, the truth matters. However, you can still talk to the ghost and try to persuade it to go. It still doesn't mean it was a demon.

Right, in the case with those trying to cast out demons who didn't know Jesus, they couldn't cast those demons out.

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.


However, those who did know of Jesus but weren't born again, not saved, they could cast out demons but not be saved themselves:

Matthew 7:21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


We have to repent of our sins to get saved. I think you know that from my reading many of your posts and glad for the truth you speak about it.


They were scared of the ghost and shouldn't be scared of demons since they were casting out demons, but they were still scared, probably because one doesn't know for sure if the ghost/spirit is good or bad.



You don't believe they are the same?

lol I was just trying to drive the point home. So since they thought Jesus was a ghost, doesn't that prove not all ghosts were demons?

Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them in his resurrected body, but they thought he might be a ghost, since that is a time spirits can leave their body after death.

All ghosts CANNOT be demons or else they would not still think that Jesus was a demon. For they were wondering if Jesus was a ghost. They weren't wondering if he was a demon. Are you getting what I am saying now?

See what you did, you closed your mind to what you should have just discovered, and that is that not all ghosts are demons.
I am not talking new age stuff.
I am speaking ONLY of the Bible.

You had no passage in mind, you say, but that is the only passage that speaks of what you said.

You did something right there different than what people with the false belief that all ghosts are demons do, and that is that they claim that it was really a demon who came and spoke to Saul, but you say it wasn't a demon. WHICH PROVES NOT ALL GHOSTS ARE DEMONS. Think about it more.

You admit that it was Samuel!

There is no way that you can call all ghosts demons and post that passage and say it was Samuel's spirit.

LOL

You have helped me in proving that NOT all ghosts are demons.

You just can't possibly still believe that all spirits are demons, for I gave you scriptures that the living Paul spoke of doing such a thing, and even the apostle John while ALIVE; and, Jesus was thought to be a ghost while alive and after death; and, Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus as ghosts; and, angels appeared to people and told them not to be afraid.

The Apostles even thought that Jesus was a ghost/spirit, and NOT A DEMON. That should be enough to change your mind, but you still haven't.


No way was Paul demon possessed. How can you say such a thing? Do you think that Paul would suggest he left his body and failed to mentioned that he died? You can't ADD TO THE SCRIPTURES. Not only did Paul suggest he traveled out of his body, John also does this in Revelation.

The scripture says PLAINLY that the Pharisees believed in spirits and angels.

Acts 23:8 (The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.)

9 And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.

OK.

You have demonstrated now over and over again that you don't listen and that you think you are right when you are not. I have a Th.D. in NT Theology, I have studied covenants for the past 12 years...and you have no education in them at all. When you are sick, do you go to your neighbor (who isn't a physician) and ask him to examine you for what ails you? No, you go to a professional physician who KNOWS the human body because he has specific training and education in ALL areas of human biology.

Relying on you own two-cents worth is not smart...you could end up killing yourself. Since you are not a truth seeker, but only a bias defender, I have had enough.

Thanks for the conversation.

..

 

[God's Truth]

OK.

You have demonstrated now over and over again that you don't listen and that you think you are right when you are not. I have a Th.D. in NT Theology, I have studied covenants for the past 12 years...and you have no education in them at all. When you are sick, do you go to your neighbor (who isn't a physician) and ask him to examine you for what ails you? No, you go to a professional physician who KNOWS the human body because he has specific training and education in ALL areas of human biology.

Relying on you own two-cents worth is not smart...you could end up killing yourself. Since you are not a truth seeker, but only a bias defender, I have had enough.

Thanks for the conversation.

..

You bragging and relying on your teachings from men is only hurting you and the people you convince, like the men in falseness before you.
I don't believe you even read everything that I posted back to you in response to what you posted to me.

Here are some things to rebuke you with:

No amount of education, whether academically or seminary, or studies in other languages such as Greek or Hebrew will change God’s Truth, in fact, the word of God says in 1 Corinthians 1:27 “But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

Isaiah 44:25 who foils the signs of false prophets and makes fools of diviners, who overthrows the learning of the wise and turns it into nonsense,

Jeremiah 8:9 The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?

1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 2:12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.

Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.



Here some more to rebuke you with:


1 Corinthians 1:26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth.

1 Corinthians 2:1 And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.


Do I need to give you scriptures about how Moses wasn't a man to brag about concerning speech?


Oh how I love the Word of God!

 

[joestue]

It was a pseudo spiritual birth. No flesh existed

Where does the Bible says to abort babies because they might be demons?

 

[God's Truth]

It was a pseudo spiritual birth. No flesh existed

Oh good to know. I was thinking she aborted her real child because she thought it was an evil baby. It probably doesn't happen too much but there are people who have killed, even their own children, and claim God told them to do it.

 

[Curtis]

Col 2:4 I want you to know this so that no one will come and lead you into error through their persuasive arguments and clever words.
Col 2:5 Even though I’m separated from you geographically, my spirit is present there with you. And I’m overjoyed to see how disciplined and deeply committed you are because you have such a solid faith in Christ, the Anointed One. (TPT)

 

[Garee]

OK.

You have demonstrated now over and over again that you don't listen and that you think you are right when you are not. I have a Th.D. in NT Theology, I have studied covenants for the past 12 years...and you have no education in them at all. When you are sick, do you go to your neighbor (who isn't a physician) and ask him to examine you for what ails you? No, you go to a professional physician who KNOWS the human body because he has specific training and education in ALL areas of human biology.

Relying on you own two-cents worth is not smart...you could end up killing yourself. Since you are not a truth seeker, but only a bias defender, I have had enough.

Thanks for the conversation.

..

You are simply hoping your extra education has some extra value as if the Holy Spirit could not teach comfort and guide and bring to mind that which he previously teaches(John 14) . .

Its what Saul thought having the Jewish flesh, fluent in Hebrew the best of teachers that were what they called zealous .

Acts 22King James Version22 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.(And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith, I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.


Paul who became a member of the Nazrene sect /denomination was put on the top ten most wanted dead or alive in keeping with their law of men. Not the law of God sola scriptura (all things written in the law and prophets .)

​

Acts 24: 5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law.


Acts 24: 13 -14Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:



They with their teaching of "I heard it through the fathers grapevine" as oral traditon" tried to prove the sola scriptura (all thing written in the law and prophets )was heresy and their worshiping a legion of fathers a what are called today patron saints rather than serving our one unseen Father and teaching master .They walked away faithless trusting their own teaching . Murder to Christians. . out of sight out of mind