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Can our salvation in Christ Jesus ever be jeopardised?

This was written to a Church, not unbelievers.​
Rev 2:2; 'I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false;​
Rev 2:3; and you have perseverance and have endured for My name's sake, and have not grown weary.​
Rev 2:4; 'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love.​
Rev 2:5; 'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place—unless you repent.​
They have already done things for Jesus name's sake. But Jesus tells the church, they need to REPENT or else, I remove your lampstand.​
Rev 2:13 'I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells​
Rev 2:14; 'But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.​
Rev 2:15; 'So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans.​
Rev 2:16; 'Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth.​
Another church, who "did not deny My faith". They are believers, but yet Jesus tells them... repent, or else I will make war against you. ( Gee, I wonder who will win? )​
Rev 2:19; 'I know your deeds, and your love and faith and service and perseverance, and that your deeds of late are greater than at first.​
Rev 2:20; 'But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.​
Rev 2:21; 'I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.​
Rev 2:22; 'Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.​
Yet another church, a church that had "love and faith and service". Yet some of them started following another teaching. Jesus says repent or else.​
Psa 69:28; May they be blotted out of the book of life And may they not be recorded with the righteous.​
Rev 3:5; 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.​
Exod 32:33; The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.​
Hello @B-A-C,

In this entry you refer to churches, who are told to repent of their deeds or they will suffer the consequences. The references you have given are largely from the book of Revelation, from letters written to the churches in existence in the day of the Lord: Two others from the Psalms and from Exodus, in reference to the possibility of erasure from the book of life.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Matt 25:8; "The foolish said to the prudent, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'​
Matt 25:9; "But the prudent answered, 'No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.'​
Matt 25:10; "And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.​
Matt 25:11; "Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.'​
Matt 25:12; "But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.'​
A lot of people think the Lord is returning for them will be unpleasantly surprised. They know He is returning, and they think they are ready for His return.​
All ten virgins in the story above started off with the same oil. But only the ones who didn't "run out" of oil got to go back with the bridegroom.​
Hello @B-A-C,

This parable opens with a note of time - 'Then', or, 'at that time', the kingdom of the heavens will become like ten virgins. The Lord is still answering the questions of the disciples raised in Matt. 24:3:-

'And as He sat upon the mount of Olives,
the disciples came unto Him privately, saying,
"Tell us, when shall these things be?
and what shall be the sign of Thy coming,
and of the end of the world?"

The, 'when', is answered in verses 5-14 by, 'Then shall the end come', and in verse 21, 'Then shall be great tribulation'.
The, 'what', as to the sign of the Lord's coming is answered in verse 27, by, 'As the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west', and in verses 27-31 more detail of the effect in the heavens are given. These answer the question concerning the sign of His coming. The 'What' as to the ending of the age is answered in the parable of the Fig Tree and the type of Noah. The Lord expands this section in the parable of The Ten Virgins. Which commences, 'Then will the kingdom of the heavens be likened unto ten virgins'. Then, at that time, in the days when the fig tree has put forth its leaves, and the days of Noah are being re-enacted, then, the kingdom of the heavens will be comparable to ten virgins who took their lamps. and went put to meet the bridegroom.

They took their lamps: - they went out with the express purpose of meeting the bridegroom. There is no suggestion that the five foolish virgins were not as earnest as the wise. There is no suggestion that they were hypocrites or unbelievers. The whole point is that they were 'unready', 'un-prepared' - a warning not to sinners, but to saints. The point of the parable is not questioning their virginity, nor their intentions, but their failure, their failure to 'WATCH'. Not everyone who is a subject of the kingdom of the heavens will enter into the marriage supper of the Lamb. They that are 'ready' go in.

* This does not have anything to do with salvation, but with reward.

'If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(1Co 3:14-15)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
2Pet 2:1; But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.​
2Pet 2:2; Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;​
2Pet 2:3; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.​
2Pet 2:4; For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;​
2Pet 2:5; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;​
2Pet 2:6; and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;​
2Pet 2:7; and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men​
2Pet 2:8; (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds),​
2Pet 2:9; then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,​
2Pet 2:10; and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties,​

There are many false teachers around, who will tell you things like "God is just so loving, and He is just so good", "It doesn't matter how much you sin, grace has your back".​
Have you ever wondered why it's so important to some people to "warn" us that we can't lose our salvation? Why would anyone need to warn us about that if it was true?​
Why would any true, Spirit filled Christian encourage other people to keep on sinning?​

Jude 1:3; Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.​
Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.​
Jude 1:10; But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.​
Jude 1:11; Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.​
Jude 1:12; These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;​
Jude 1:13; wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.​

Even here on TalkJesus we have a few who tell you that the grace of God is a license to sin. Woe to them, they are in error. They are the reefs beneath the waves that shipwreck some people.​

1Tim 1:6; For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion,​
1Tim 1:7; wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.​
1Tim 1:18; This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight,​
1Tim 1:19; keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.​

There are some people here, who will shipwreck your faith. They will encourage to follow the doctrines of demons. They make "confident assertions" about things​
they don't understand. They will tell you that the commandments and obedience to God don't matter. But they are liars. Straight up liars. Period.​
They will post verses that seemingly contradict all the verses above, but the Bible never contradicts itself, so ignore all of these verses at your own peril.​

1Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;​
1Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.​
Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,​

' I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;
only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,
but by love serve one another.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this;
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.'
(Gal 5:12-14)

Hello @B-A-C,

I have never, ever heard anyone on this forum advocate that the grace of God is a licence to sin.

* One verse which you quote from 1 Peter is an encouragement to us all,

'The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government.
Presumptuous are they, self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.'
(2Pe. 2:9-10)

* God is not mocked, and whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Hi Complete I have one question for you do you fear God?
Hello @DaveM,

I have an awe of God, yes, but knowing Him now as my Father, through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, I no longer have a fear (ie., dread) of Him: for I know that, 'i.n Christ Jesus', I stand before Him as one who is, 'Holy and without blame' ( Eph. 1): for I have been made meet to partake of the inheritance of the saints in light.
My sins have been forgiven, and I have been accepted in the Beloved. I am indeed 'Complete' in Christ. Not because of anything that I have done, but because of the all-sufficient sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ on my behalf.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
To ask if Paul had assurance of salvation seems ludicrous to me. For if you read what he writes, his assurance shines through. Yet at present I can think of no verses to give to you, @B.A.C.

What he feared losing was the reward of reigning with Christ, which is given for faithfully enduring to the end. His salvation was firmly based on the promises of God, which could have no surer foundation, as they were in Christ Jesus, Paul's risen and ascended Lord.

He remained faithful, even in the face of martyrdom, so we know that he will reign with Christ.

God is faithful.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

PS: The proof texts which you provide in your entries, are without their context, and can therefore be made to prove anything. They are not rightly divided, and therefore lack validity in regard to this subject, or any other.
 
Hello @DaveM,

I have an awe of God, yes, but knowing Him now as my Father, through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, I no longer have a fear (ie., dread) of Him: for I know that, 'i.n Christ Jesus', I stand before Him as one who is, 'Holy and without blame' ( Eph. 1): for I have been made meet to partake of the inheritance of the saints in light.
My sins have been forgiven, and I have been accepted in the Beloved. I am indeed 'Complete' in Christ. Not because of anything that I have done, but because of the all-sufficient sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ on my behalf.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
 
You seek to impress upon your reader that these verses apply to those who have received salvation by faith. For they cannot, 'fall away', from that which they never had. Your verses are taken from the gospels, and from the epistles of Peter and Paul.

That is correct, they can only "fall away", if they did indeed have it.
 
They took their lamps: - they went out with the express purpose of meeting the bridegroom. There is no suggestion that the five foolish virgins were not as earnest as the wise. There is no suggestion that they were hypocrites or unbelievers. The whole point is that they were 'unready', 'un-prepared' - a warning not to sinners, but to saints. The point of the parable is not questioning their virginity, nor their intentions, but their failure, their failure to 'WATCH'. Not everyone who is a subject of the kingdom of the heavens will enter into the marriage supper of the Lamb. They that are 'ready' go in.

* This does not have anything to do with salvation, but with reward.

And yet, there is nothing about the reward mentioned anywhere in this passage. It does mention the master coming back, taking some people with Him,
and closing the door on the rest who assumed they were going with Him.
 
No one is arguing you were made complete, the question is, do you stay complete?
Php 1:6 And I am convinced and sure of this very thing, that He Who began a good work in you will continue until the day of Jesus Christ [right up to the time of His return], developing [that good work] and perfecting and bringing it to full completion in you. (AMP)

To be made complete is God,s work not ours.
 
And yet, there is nothing about the reward mentioned anywhere in this passage. It does mention the master coming back, taking some people with Him,
and closing the door on the rest who assumed they were going with Him.
Mat 25:11 Later the other virgins also came and said, Lord, Lord, open [the door] to us!
Mat 25:12 But He replied, I solemnly declare to you, I do not know you [I am not acquainted with you].

the five foolish virgins were never saved they only thought (think) they were.. Jesus said he did not know them.
 
the five foolish virgins were never saved they only thought (think) they were.. Jesus said he did not know them.

Yet it seems the only difference between the ones He knew, and the ones He didn't know was whether they had oil in their lamps or not. Whether their light was still burning or not.
Still, you bring up an interesting point... a whole other can of worms that always proves difficult to answer.

What is the difference between someone who "believes in Jesus" and only "believes" they are saved, vs someone who "believes in Jesus" and truly are actually saved?
 
(Mat 25:1) THEN shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
(Mat 25:2) And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
(Mat 25:3) They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
(Mat 25:4) But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
(Mat 25:5) While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
(Mat 25:6) And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
(Mat 25:7) Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
(Mat 25:8) And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
(Mat 25:9) But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
(Mat 25:10) And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
(Mat 25:11) Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
(Mat 25:12) But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
(Mat 25:13) Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Hello @Curtis & @B-A-C,

In Matthew 24-25, the Lord is still answering the questions posed by the disciples in Matthew 24:3, and should be understood with that in mind. It is not saying in this parable of the ten virgins, that all through the history of the Christian Church this has been the state of affairs, but only in that day, That is why the Lord begins with the word, 'THEN'.

In that time when the fig tree has put forth it's leaves (Mat.24:32), and the days of Noah are being re-enacted (Mat.24:26-27), then the kingdom of the heavens will be comparable to ten virgins who took their lamps, and went out to meet the bridegroom. Not every one who is a subject of the kingdom of the heavens will enter into the marriage supper of the Lamb. They that are ready go in. In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 we have the hope of believers of that period set out, and it includes a 'meeting' of the Lord in the air, and 'watchfulness' is again urged.

This is not a matter of the loss of eternal life: but 'loss' none the less; for the foolish virgins were not able to attend the marriage supper with those who were 'ready' and watchful.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
(Mat 25:1) THEN shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
(Mat 25:2) And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
(Mat 25:3) They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
(Mat 25:4) But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
(Mat 25:5) While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
(Mat 25:6) And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
(Mat 25:7) Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
(Mat 25:8) And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
(Mat 25:9) But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
(Mat 25:10) And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
(Mat 25:11) Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
(Mat 25:12) But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
(Mat 25:13) Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Hello &Curtis & @B-A-C,

In Matthew 24-25, the Lord is still answering the questions posed by the disciples in Matthew 24:3, and should be understood with that in mind. It is not saying in this parable of the ten virgins, that all through the history of the Christian Church this has been the state of affairs, but only in that day, That is why the Lord begins with the word, 'THEN'.

In that time when the fig tree has put forth it's leaves (Mat.24:32), and the days of Noah are being re-enacted (Mat.24:26-27), then the kingdom of the heavens will be comparable to ten virgins who took their lamps, and went out to meet the bridegroom. Not every one who is a subject of the kingdom of the heavens will enter into the marriage supper of the Lamb. They that are ready go in. In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 we have the hope of believers of that period set out, and it includes a 'meeting' of the Lord in the air, and 'watchfulness' is again urged.

This is not a matter of the loss of eternal life: but 'loss' none the less; for the foolish virgins were not able to attend the marriage supper with those who were 'ready' and watchful.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

The fig tree only meant when you see certain things happening you know it’s close. Has nothing to do with Israel in 1948.
Noah’s day simply means going about daily lives and being taken by surprise.
 
The fig tree only meant when you see certain things happening you know it’s close. Has nothing to do with Israel in 1948.
Noah’s day simply means going about daily lives and being taken by surprise.
Exactly! 1948???
 
No one is arguing you were made complete, the question is, do you stay complete?

Absolutely, @B-A-C, because I am God's workmanship. It is a finished work.

'And ye are complete in Him,
which is the head of all principality and power:'
(Col.2:10)
 
In Matthew 24-25, the Lord is still answering the questions posed by the disciples in Matthew 24:3, and should be understood with that in mind. It is not saying in this parable of the ten virgins, that all through the history of the Christian Church this has been the state of affairs, but only in that day, That is why the Lord begins with the word, 'THEN'.

You are right, 25 continues on from 24, but what is 24 mostly about. The rapture, the second coming, the end times. That's why it says "then". Then in those times, these things will happen.
One of the things that will happen when Jesus comes back, is that some people will be expecting to go with Him. But not all who are expecting to go, will.
 
Absolutely, @B-A-C, because I am God's workmanship. It is a finished work.

'And ye are complete in Him,
which is the head of all principality and power:'
(Col.2:10)

Everyone has room for improvement. No one is perfect but Christ alone.
His sacrifice is a finished work. We are work in progress.
 
Everyone has room for improvement. No one is perfect but Christ alone.
His sacrifice is a finished work. We are work in progress.
All born again children of God are growing into the person they already are in Christ.
 
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