Following on: Even more alarming is the fact, when I told this to a female family member, she just shrugged her shoulders and dismissed it as nothing! I think this attitude says a lot about the majority of Catholics. Its just a religious custom, its not about a personal relationship with God, they go to church, say their prayers (like the rosery) (I shudder when I think of the hours I waisted saying the rosery) and then go home and often live a life that has little difference to a non believer. Its just a easy way of life that eases their conscience and requires little commitment. They are not sheep that follow Jesus' voice, they are dum sheep that willingly follow any voice! (John 10:27)
Christian or Catholic?
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Lots of people DO not Understand? Once We are born -Again ? We are REALLY NEW CREATURES!
The old us is dead , The NEW US is a spirit and has a NEW NAME , Because we are NEW BEINGS!
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
GOD started a BRAND NEW WORK! He started with mankind and ends with , a NEW HEAVENS and EARTH!
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
The old us is dead , The NEW US is a spirit and has a NEW NAME , Because we are NEW BEINGS!
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
GOD started a BRAND NEW WORK! He started with mankind and ends with , a NEW HEAVENS and EARTH!
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
NeedHimForever
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Life in Poland is tough. The country is at least 95% catholic, and pagan traditions are very common, and frustrating to deal with when trying to raise a young child. For example: A few weeks ago my child's preschool teacher asked me to bring a candle, because they were going to drip wax in order to look into the future and tell what each child will grow up to be.
I immediately said, No Way is my child participating in any pagan fortune telling ritual. They hide this blatant paganism behind saint andrews day btw.
They looked at me like I'm out of my mind. I said the Bible is very clear about fortune telling, magic and the such. The schools director/principle even had their priest email me some article about the ritual being ok, saint andrew, tradition, bla bla bla.
I also don't enjoy having to explain that God did a wonderful job "decorating" trees, and they don't need any ornaments, as well as the santa clause issue and many others.
The best part is, there have been a few people that have flat out refused to talk to us because we aren't catholic. The mother of a child in my kids class walked out after asking why I don't have any crosses in the house, or K+M+B=2008 and simply hearing. "We aren't catholic"
I'm done, it's late. Sorry if I over shared.
I immediately said, No Way is my child participating in any pagan fortune telling ritual. They hide this blatant paganism behind saint andrews day btw.
They looked at me like I'm out of my mind. I said the Bible is very clear about fortune telling, magic and the such. The schools director/principle even had their priest email me some article about the ritual being ok, saint andrew, tradition, bla bla bla.
I also don't enjoy having to explain that God did a wonderful job "decorating" trees, and they don't need any ornaments, as well as the santa clause issue and many others.
The best part is, there have been a few people that have flat out refused to talk to us because we aren't catholic. The mother of a child in my kids class walked out after asking why I don't have any crosses in the house, or K+M+B=2008 and simply hearing. "We aren't catholic"
I'm done, it's late. Sorry if I over shared.
Thank you for posting your comments.
I live in England and I did not have a 'religeous' background apart from writing C of E (Anglican) on official documents. I discovered Christ when I was 23 or rather God found me.
Traditions and church going even reading the Bible, although not nessesarly wrong, will not save you. Only believing that Christ died for your sins and is resurected and acsended into heaven to intercede for our sin will save a person.
John 3 : 16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son so that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish but have everlasting life
I live in England and I did not have a 'religeous' background apart from writing C of E (Anglican) on official documents. I discovered Christ when I was 23 or rather God found me.
Traditions and church going even reading the Bible, although not nessesarly wrong, will not save you. Only believing that Christ died for your sins and is resurected and acsended into heaven to intercede for our sin will save a person.
John 3 : 16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son so that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish but have everlasting life
Boanerges
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Catholics are precious souls and my prayers are fervently with them. Their doctrine is riddled with error.
One reason is that they equate tradition as equal to scripture.
Jesus told the religious folks of His day they made void the Word of God by following contradictory tradtions, my Catholic friends (most unwitingly) do the same.
One reason is that they equate tradition as equal to scripture.
Jesus told the religious folks of His day they made void the Word of God by following contradictory tradtions, my Catholic friends (most unwitingly) do the same.
Fallen Knight
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Dear Fellow Christians,
I say that, because if you ask any Muslim who they fought 1000 yrs ago, they will tell you "The Christians". This is 500 yrs before Martin Luther invented his Faith Alone doctrine.
And where did he invent it? In his own words, whilst sitting on the toilet.
IE: Please do not usurp the word Christian and say I am not one. I am a Christian. And follow the Catholic Faith.
I am also an ex Bible Only Christian. I could try and impress this fact by listing the number of ex Bible Only Christians ( many of them ex pastors ) who have come to the Catholic Faith just in recorded modern history, but alas there is not enough room here.
I could ask you all, just exactly which one of your 20,000 different denominations has the truth. Because from personal experience I know you will get a different interpretation in just about every Bible Only church you attend.
I could point out that you yourselves are so aware of this splintering, that your latest practice is to call yourselves "Non Denominational Bible Only" Churches instead of the old names like Lutheren, Baptist, Anglican, Episcopalian ( they separated simply because one was English and the other American ) Mormon, Adventist, Quaker, etc etc etc, and yet still teach their same different versions of the same bible.
I could carry on for page after page and answer every one of your scriptural attacks with scripture of my own.
And for what?
I am 43 yrs of age, my wife left 10 yrs ago, but I still hold to my marriage and pray for her. I struggle mightly from day to day with loneliness and yet Our Lord helps me through.
And it has been my experience that attacking each other such as we do, serves absolutely no purpose what so ever other than to pump up our own pride and intellects. For every 1 person these posts influences, you actually serve to weaken and destroy the faith of another 4.
Oh how satan must love these sites
Look outside at the world. At the people we are supposed to be reaching out to. Do you really think that they look at us divided and arguing and instantly think "Now there's the truth, there's a loving GOD, I'll go there"
I love Bible Only Christians. I disagree with them, but they are Christians just like me
Pax Tecum ( Peace be with you )
Fallen Knight
I say that, because if you ask any Muslim who they fought 1000 yrs ago, they will tell you "The Christians". This is 500 yrs before Martin Luther invented his Faith Alone doctrine.
And where did he invent it? In his own words, whilst sitting on the toilet.
IE: Please do not usurp the word Christian and say I am not one. I am a Christian. And follow the Catholic Faith.
I am also an ex Bible Only Christian. I could try and impress this fact by listing the number of ex Bible Only Christians ( many of them ex pastors ) who have come to the Catholic Faith just in recorded modern history, but alas there is not enough room here.
I could ask you all, just exactly which one of your 20,000 different denominations has the truth. Because from personal experience I know you will get a different interpretation in just about every Bible Only church you attend.
I could point out that you yourselves are so aware of this splintering, that your latest practice is to call yourselves "Non Denominational Bible Only" Churches instead of the old names like Lutheren, Baptist, Anglican, Episcopalian ( they separated simply because one was English and the other American ) Mormon, Adventist, Quaker, etc etc etc, and yet still teach their same different versions of the same bible.
I could carry on for page after page and answer every one of your scriptural attacks with scripture of my own.
And for what?
I am 43 yrs of age, my wife left 10 yrs ago, but I still hold to my marriage and pray for her. I struggle mightly from day to day with loneliness and yet Our Lord helps me through.
And it has been my experience that attacking each other such as we do, serves absolutely no purpose what so ever other than to pump up our own pride and intellects. For every 1 person these posts influences, you actually serve to weaken and destroy the faith of another 4.
Oh how satan must love these sites
Look outside at the world. At the people we are supposed to be reaching out to. Do you really think that they look at us divided and arguing and instantly think "Now there's the truth, there's a loving GOD, I'll go there"
I love Bible Only Christians. I disagree with them, but they are Christians just like me
Pax Tecum ( Peace be with you )
Fallen Knight
Boanerges
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Calling oneself a Christian does not make one a Christian anymore than calling oneself a Buick makes one a car.
The crusades were about politics, power and were not directed by Christ nor anyone truly representing Him.
Martin Luther did not invent his doctrine but simply read the Bible, a book his contemporaries chose to ignore. It does however speak volumes that a man can have more revelation sitting on a toilet than a religious organization had over hundreds of years.
Selling of indulgences to blackmail grieving families is only one symptom of the disease that the catholic "church" demonstrated it's lack of Christianity with.
I am sincerely sorry for all who have backsliden and they are in my prayers.
That being said:
I am not a Bible only person but I am a strict believer that if it contradicts the Word of God it is an abomination for God does not contradict Himself.
I do believe that God has people scattered throughout every denomination. That has much more to do with the grace of God than the teaching of many.
I do believe that no one has perfect doctrine but Christ Himself.
Yet those who differ in doctrine can walk in unity and spirit building the Kingdom of God. It is not doctrine that shows who we are but the love of the brethren one for another.
I do believe that the devil attends church as much as anyone.
In some churches he seems to be in charge.
I do believe it is harder to come to the knowledge of truth in some churches than others.
I do believe that the leaders in religious organizations purposefully mislead people for control or gain.
I also believe that those who truly have Christ in their hearts should love each other.
Have a blessed day,
your friend Larry.
The crusades were about politics, power and were not directed by Christ nor anyone truly representing Him.
Martin Luther did not invent his doctrine but simply read the Bible, a book his contemporaries chose to ignore. It does however speak volumes that a man can have more revelation sitting on a toilet than a religious organization had over hundreds of years.
Selling of indulgences to blackmail grieving families is only one symptom of the disease that the catholic "church" demonstrated it's lack of Christianity with.
I am sincerely sorry for all who have backsliden and they are in my prayers.
That being said:
I am not a Bible only person but I am a strict believer that if it contradicts the Word of God it is an abomination for God does not contradict Himself.
I do believe that God has people scattered throughout every denomination. That has much more to do with the grace of God than the teaching of many.
I do believe that no one has perfect doctrine but Christ Himself.
Yet those who differ in doctrine can walk in unity and spirit building the Kingdom of God. It is not doctrine that shows who we are but the love of the brethren one for another.
I do believe that the devil attends church as much as anyone.
In some churches he seems to be in charge.
I do believe it is harder to come to the knowledge of truth in some churches than others.
I do believe that the leaders in religious organizations purposefully mislead people for control or gain.
I also believe that those who truly have Christ in their hearts should love each other.
Have a blessed day,
your friend Larry.
Fallen Knight
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Dear Boanerges,
Firstly, you speak of indulgences.
No 71 of Luther's 95 thesis:
"Let him be anathema and accursed who denies the apostolic character of the indulgences"
I believe more study is required on your part.
Secondly, my reference to the Crusades was not a political reference, it was a simply pointing to the fact that "Christians" existed and were known as such for 1500 yrs before your reformation.
Please bo not usurp the name and say I am not one.
Secondly, you said it very well when you mentioned that "You believe" that God scattered Christians throughout all denominations. That is the basis of Protestant theology. It is what "You" believe.
Whereas the Bible states that the Holy Spirit would lead HIS CHURCH in the ways of all truth. It does not say he would give bits and pieces here and there for us to work out the whole picture individually.
Look at your post. 7 times you mention "I believe".
That's not the Bible talking, that is simply you. And there are 20,000 different "You" in Protestant Bible Churches. All disagreeing.
Love Knight
Firstly, you speak of indulgences.
No 71 of Luther's 95 thesis:
"Let him be anathema and accursed who denies the apostolic character of the indulgences"
I believe more study is required on your part.
Secondly, my reference to the Crusades was not a political reference, it was a simply pointing to the fact that "Christians" existed and were known as such for 1500 yrs before your reformation.
Please bo not usurp the name and say I am not one.
Secondly, you said it very well when you mentioned that "You believe" that God scattered Christians throughout all denominations. That is the basis of Protestant theology. It is what "You" believe.
Whereas the Bible states that the Holy Spirit would lead HIS CHURCH in the ways of all truth. It does not say he would give bits and pieces here and there for us to work out the whole picture individually.
Look at your post. 7 times you mention "I believe".
That's not the Bible talking, that is simply you. And there are 20,000 different "You" in Protestant Bible Churches. All disagreeing.
Love Knight
NeedHimForever
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Fallen Night. Are you serious, or being a troll? You proclaim to be catholic and write about the Holy Spirit? If the HS existed within the catholic church, it would convict catholics of the SIN they commit by blatantly disregarding what the Bible teaches, and creating doctrines that have absolutely ZERO Biblical support.
The most simple example would be the ten commandments.
Read a Bible, and then check out the catholic ten commandments.
Any discrepancies....? Wait. They took out a commandment and split 10 into 2!? NO WAY! Why would they do that?
Ahhhh. It's hard to WORSHIP IDOLS with that commandment in place.
Seriously. Drop to your knees and sincerely ask God to open your eyes so you may grow closer to knowing HIM and His word.
There is no Biblical evidence for transubstantiation, yet you believe it!
Why is your communion consist of only 1 part? Why Why Why.
Put your faith in God and his word. If you ask God for understanding, He will give it to you.
The most simple example would be the ten commandments.
Read a Bible, and then check out the catholic ten commandments.
Any discrepancies....? Wait. They took out a commandment and split 10 into 2!? NO WAY! Why would they do that?
Ahhhh. It's hard to WORSHIP IDOLS with that commandment in place.
Seriously. Drop to your knees and sincerely ask God to open your eyes so you may grow closer to knowing HIM and His word.
There is no Biblical evidence for transubstantiation, yet you believe it!
Why is your communion consist of only 1 part? Why Why Why.
Put your faith in God and his word. If you ask God for understanding, He will give it to you.
Fallen Knight
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Dear Needhim,
The mere fact that you have just called me a "troll" speaks loud and clear to everyone reading this that the Holy Spirit ( Note: Not "HS" as you reduce it too. Do you reduce Our Lord's name or Our Father's title as well?? ) does not reside in your heart.
I believe this is a "Christian" site, not an angry, abusive filled one. Try googling "porn". You may find people more akin to your mindset there.
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal[/SIZE]
I don't reply to "cymbols"
The mere fact that you have just called me a "troll" speaks loud and clear to everyone reading this that the Holy Spirit ( Note: Not "HS" as you reduce it too. Do you reduce Our Lord's name or Our Father's title as well?? ) does not reside in your heart.
I believe this is a "Christian" site, not an angry, abusive filled one. Try googling "porn". You may find people more akin to your mindset there.
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal[/SIZE]
I don't reply to "cymbols"
NeedHimForever
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You are right, this is a Christian forum, but it seems that you believe that a religion that twists God's word to their own liking while creating false doctrines is part of Christ's church. I can sense the arrogance and superiority you derive from being a member of "the one true holy church" in your post above. All those poor protestants are splintered, and can't agree. Well at least you have the "truth".
Have you done any research about the rcc at all? The Bible alone destroys your religion, and there is no way to interpret it so it doesn't.
If a mormon, or jehovas witness came on here and said. "I'm a Christian" I would equally reply that they are wrong, just as I have done with you.
You either believe God's word in it's entirety, or you don't, and when you don't you are disobedient to God. The Bible says God made the earth in 6 days, and I believe that. I also believe the earth is just over 6k years old. I'm sure many here will disagree, but why? God said it is, and that's the end of it. It isn't up for discussion. The same goes for all the doctrines in the rcc that are inspired by the prince of darkness himself.
Hanging on my writing HS instead of Holy Spirit is taken right out of page 21 of the Troll handbook. As far as porn? Porn is a lie, and if you must know I am 100% porn free. If you would like to know why, read a Bible. Thanks for playing.
Have you done any research about the rcc at all? The Bible alone destroys your religion, and there is no way to interpret it so it doesn't.
If a mormon, or jehovas witness came on here and said. "I'm a Christian" I would equally reply that they are wrong, just as I have done with you.
You either believe God's word in it's entirety, or you don't, and when you don't you are disobedient to God. The Bible says God made the earth in 6 days, and I believe that. I also believe the earth is just over 6k years old. I'm sure many here will disagree, but why? God said it is, and that's the end of it. It isn't up for discussion. The same goes for all the doctrines in the rcc that are inspired by the prince of darkness himself.
Hanging on my writing HS instead of Holy Spirit is taken right out of page 21 of the Troll handbook. As far as porn? Porn is a lie, and if you must know I am 100% porn free. If you would like to know why, read a Bible. Thanks for playing.
Fallen Knight
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And my dear friend if you knew what you were actually talking about, you would know that it is not only The Catholic Church but also the Protestant Lutheran Church that acknowledge the 10 commandments in this order.
NeedHimForever
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I bought a poster of the 10 commandments at target 7 years ago and they are in the correct order and the idolatry ban is present and accounted for.
Great response. I think I'm done. Years in apologetics at rr taught me that there is no point in arguing with catholics. Some things just aren't meant to be.
Great response. I think I'm done. Years in apologetics at rr taught me that there is no point in arguing with catholics. Some things just aren't meant to be.
NeedHim, I agree with you to an extent on your last sentence. There is no point in arguing with Catholics. However, I have to say there is no point in arguing with anybody. A good healthy debate can be wonderful though. I am all for heated debates so long as they remain civil. I see both you are Fallen Knight have reduced yourselves to name calling and speaking with a motive of stirring up strife. Controversy begets growth. Strife does not.
I have not read the last 20 pages as I would be here all day but I would love to jump into this thread somehow. I have many Catholic friends but I am highly anti-Catholicism as the religion stands. Of course, this is because I feel Catholicism:
1) Reduces the sacrifice of Christ to nothing more than an opportunity
2) Denies the sufficiency of Christ by adding works to it
3) Sells indulgences for the sake of a money making scandal that hinges on the lie of hope called purgatory
4) Sets God on the sidelines while the priesthood runs the show
5) Places hope in vain rituals of man instead of Christ alone
6) Reduces grace to nothing and replaces it with merit and reward
7) Idolizes both communion and Mary
8) Sacrifices Christ countless times during the Mass even though he died once for all
9) Stood back up the priesthood after it was torn down by God
10) Too many others to list in this one reply.
Maybe all this was covered already in the past 20 pages. If so, I apologize. I do see the RCC as a mission field in great need. I do nto see the RCC as Brothers or Sisters in Christ if they truly follow the things taught by the RCC both historically and modern (although they are one and the same because the RCC believes itself to be free from error).
On a final note, I want to reiterate that I do not hate Catholics. I just abhor the Catholic Church. I have many friends who are Catholics but I will never befriend the RCC system. I know what it means to be a Protestant even though many have no idea what they are protesting when they claim the name.
I have not read the last 20 pages as I would be here all day but I would love to jump into this thread somehow. I have many Catholic friends but I am highly anti-Catholicism as the religion stands. Of course, this is because I feel Catholicism:
1) Reduces the sacrifice of Christ to nothing more than an opportunity
2) Denies the sufficiency of Christ by adding works to it
3) Sells indulgences for the sake of a money making scandal that hinges on the lie of hope called purgatory
4) Sets God on the sidelines while the priesthood runs the show
5) Places hope in vain rituals of man instead of Christ alone
6) Reduces grace to nothing and replaces it with merit and reward
7) Idolizes both communion and Mary
8) Sacrifices Christ countless times during the Mass even though he died once for all
9) Stood back up the priesthood after it was torn down by God
10) Too many others to list in this one reply.
Maybe all this was covered already in the past 20 pages. If so, I apologize. I do see the RCC as a mission field in great need. I do nto see the RCC as Brothers or Sisters in Christ if they truly follow the things taught by the RCC both historically and modern (although they are one and the same because the RCC believes itself to be free from error).
On a final note, I want to reiterate that I do not hate Catholics. I just abhor the Catholic Church. I have many friends who are Catholics but I will never befriend the RCC system. I know what it means to be a Protestant even though many have no idea what they are protesting when they claim the name.
Boanerges
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My dear friend, how goes the internet crusades?
I am not a follower of Luther but of Jesus. Though he shed light that set many free of the yolk of man's religion if there is a place he differs from the Word of God than that is where he and I part.
Perhaps you were confused by my mentioning Luther and indulgences in the same post but i was not equating one with the other.
Those who called themselves Christians (like many today) were quite the opposite. Papal power and domination was more their cup of tea and quite frankly still is. That spirit of arrogance that pervades those dear confused souls who think they follow God's way yet contradict His Word at every turn. These precious people are in my prayers.
What I believe is what God reveals to me.Please do not put me down for that.
As far as you being a Christian, that depends on the facts; are you born again? Belonging to an organization never saved anyone. Belonging to the living God through Jesus Christ is the way.
Yes it is His church and not the property of some pointy hats but the sheep of Jesus Christ.
I am not a follower of Luther but of Jesus. Though he shed light that set many free of the yolk of man's religion if there is a place he differs from the Word of God than that is where he and I part.
Perhaps you were confused by my mentioning Luther and indulgences in the same post but i was not equating one with the other.
Those who called themselves Christians (like many today) were quite the opposite. Papal power and domination was more their cup of tea and quite frankly still is. That spirit of arrogance that pervades those dear confused souls who think they follow God's way yet contradict His Word at every turn. These precious people are in my prayers.
What I believe is what God reveals to me.Please do not put me down for that.
As far as you being a Christian, that depends on the facts; are you born again? Belonging to an organization never saved anyone. Belonging to the living God through Jesus Christ is the way.
Yes it is His church and not the property of some pointy hats but the sheep of Jesus Christ.
Boanerges
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Friend, it is obvious to all you are here to stir up trouble and strife.
Pro 20:11 Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.
Boanerges
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Whatever, or how many people try to change the Word of God to suite their agendas this still does not make it right.
When (whoever) religious groups have to re-write the 10 commandments to hide their disobedience to the Word of God and cover their shame then something is rotten from the top down.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Since I have personally seen this idolatry (people bowing to, kissing , promising, making offerings and praying to statues) I suggest repentance is in order lest the folks be cursed of God.
I certainly do not hate Catholics and in fact many are dear to me.All are dear to Christ and so all are precious to me.
It is the dark and sinister religion that chains them and holds them back from Christ that I detest. I am praying for the freedom and salvation of each of these souls from the top to the least of them.
That my friend is genuine concern and love.
You are in my prayers.
Fallen Knight
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Dear Friends,
I note that you are all for throwing false accusations against other Christians and are all about pretending to know about that which you really know nothing.
I come from a background of AOG, Gospel and Baptist Christian Churches. After realising, as I have previously stated, that every Bible only church interprets the Holy Bible only in the way that they individually see it, and remembering Our Lord's promise that HIS church would be led in the ways of ALL truth, and that not even the gates of hell shall prevail against her, I realised 2 things.
1. That 20,000 different Bible only churches did not fit that prophercy
2. His church had to have been here since HE rose.....not since an ex Catholic Priest, who believed the Holy Spirit reveiled Faith Alone to him whilst sitting on the toilet 500 yrs ago.
Look at your answers. You are so intent on attacking, you cannot defend your stance.
Boenerges brings up Luther and indulgences, whilst not answering the fact that Luther claimed they were apostolic and correct.
Rojoloco claims that I have reduced myself to name calling and stirring up trouble. Please show me Rojo, where I am name calling??? Also in regards to stirring up trouble, your definition of that obviously is based on the fact that if a Protestant slams a Catholic with falsehood or half truths then that is acceptable ( look at who started this thread ) but if a Catholic points outs your floors then he is stirring???
Needhim, makes a claim in regards to the Commandments and lays it at the foot of the Catholic Church whilst convieniently leaving out one of his own Bible Only Churches.
I too enjoy spirited debate. I too attempt to keep it at a level above the gutter, because I acknowledge the hearts of good people regardless of denomination. Will you join me? Or do you only rely on name calling?
I note that you are all for throwing false accusations against other Christians and are all about pretending to know about that which you really know nothing.
I come from a background of AOG, Gospel and Baptist Christian Churches. After realising, as I have previously stated, that every Bible only church interprets the Holy Bible only in the way that they individually see it, and remembering Our Lord's promise that HIS church would be led in the ways of ALL truth, and that not even the gates of hell shall prevail against her, I realised 2 things.
1. That 20,000 different Bible only churches did not fit that prophercy
2. His church had to have been here since HE rose.....not since an ex Catholic Priest, who believed the Holy Spirit reveiled Faith Alone to him whilst sitting on the toilet 500 yrs ago.
Look at your answers. You are so intent on attacking, you cannot defend your stance.
Boenerges brings up Luther and indulgences, whilst not answering the fact that Luther claimed they were apostolic and correct.
Rojoloco claims that I have reduced myself to name calling and stirring up trouble. Please show me Rojo, where I am name calling??? Also in regards to stirring up trouble, your definition of that obviously is based on the fact that if a Protestant slams a Catholic with falsehood or half truths then that is acceptable ( look at who started this thread ) but if a Catholic points outs your floors then he is stirring???
Needhim, makes a claim in regards to the Commandments and lays it at the foot of the Catholic Church whilst convieniently leaving out one of his own Bible Only Churches.
I too enjoy spirited debate. I too attempt to keep it at a level above the gutter, because I acknowledge the hearts of good people regardless of denomination. Will you join me? Or do you only rely on name calling?
Fallen Knight
Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2010
- Messages
- 6
With that in mind, let us closely look at your knowledge and your Bible.
The Protestant movement of the 1500's denied the Old Testament of the Catholic Church and claimed the "Hebrew" Torah
This in itself brings a question into your theology. If all authority is in the Bible alone, and if Our Lord said not even the gates of hell shall prevail against her. Then by your own version of the truth, Christians were reading a different version of the Bible for 1200 yrs before your reformation ( that's more than twice as long as your current Protestant line is now ) than clearly the Bible Alone belief could not have been correct for countless generations of Christians before you.
Secondly, it obviously brings into the arena the question that Hell did indeed prevail for 1200 yrs.
I trust in the truth and claims of Our Lord Jesus Christ.... do you? Or do you simply accept what has been handed onto you by men?
Now, if your acceptance of the "Hebrew" version is based simply on that recorded in Hebrew, than the fact that Hebrew versions of Ecclesiasticus and Tobit which predate Our Lord, having been discovered since 1896, should by your claim, now be included in your Old Testament. To deny this is to accept "Traditions of Men" on your part.
To claim you only accept that which was accepted by the Jewish councils, is to accept the fact that the Jews did not close their cannon until the council of Jamnia in approx 70AD
At that same council, those same members passed a curse on all followers of Christ.
I am not a Jew.......I am a Christian.
[18] for if the righteous man is God's son, he will help him, and will deliver him from the hand of his adversaries. (Mt.27:43).
[19] Let us test him with insult and torture, that we may find out how gentle he is, and make trial of his forbearance.
[20] Let us condemn him to a shameful death, for, according to what he says, he will be protected."
[21] Thus they reasoned, but they were led astray, for their wickedness blinded them,
[22] and they did not know the secret purposes of God, nor hope for the wages of holiness, nor discern the prize for blameless souls;
[23] for God created man for incorruption, and made him in the image of his own eternity,
[24] but through the devil's envy death entered the world, and those who belong to his party experience it.
Stop and think. Why would the same Pharisees who condemned Jesus 40 yrs before, at a time when Christians were growing in number, choose to claim the above scripture was not inspired and remove it?
Pax Tecum ( Especially to you Rojo )
Fallen Knight
The Protestant movement of the 1500's denied the Old Testament of the Catholic Church and claimed the "Hebrew" Torah
This in itself brings a question into your theology. If all authority is in the Bible alone, and if Our Lord said not even the gates of hell shall prevail against her. Then by your own version of the truth, Christians were reading a different version of the Bible for 1200 yrs before your reformation ( that's more than twice as long as your current Protestant line is now ) than clearly the Bible Alone belief could not have been correct for countless generations of Christians before you.
Secondly, it obviously brings into the arena the question that Hell did indeed prevail for 1200 yrs.
I trust in the truth and claims of Our Lord Jesus Christ.... do you? Or do you simply accept what has been handed onto you by men?
Now, if your acceptance of the "Hebrew" version is based simply on that recorded in Hebrew, than the fact that Hebrew versions of Ecclesiasticus and Tobit which predate Our Lord, having been discovered since 1896, should by your claim, now be included in your Old Testament. To deny this is to accept "Traditions of Men" on your part.
To claim you only accept that which was accepted by the Jewish councils, is to accept the fact that the Jews did not close their cannon until the council of Jamnia in approx 70AD
At that same council, those same members passed a curse on all followers of Christ.
I am not a Jew.......I am a Christian.
[18] for if the righteous man is God's son, he will help him, and will deliver him from the hand of his adversaries. (Mt.27:43).
[19] Let us test him with insult and torture, that we may find out how gentle he is, and make trial of his forbearance.
[20] Let us condemn him to a shameful death, for, according to what he says, he will be protected."
[21] Thus they reasoned, but they were led astray, for their wickedness blinded them,
[22] and they did not know the secret purposes of God, nor hope for the wages of holiness, nor discern the prize for blameless souls;
[23] for God created man for incorruption, and made him in the image of his own eternity,
[24] but through the devil's envy death entered the world, and those who belong to his party experience it.
Stop and think. Why would the same Pharisees who condemned Jesus 40 yrs before, at a time when Christians were growing in number, choose to claim the above scripture was not inspired and remove it?
Pax Tecum ( Especially to you Rojo )
Fallen Knight
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