Christian or Catholic?

[MissMolly]

So if a man is a Jesus only believer, and a woman is a believer in the Trinity, but they are both saved, and they both live for God and want to get married, is that a reason not to get married? Could the trinitarian woman stilll go to the man's church and worship Jesus? Or would this be too much conflict in the marriage?

I'm not an expert on the Jesus-only (Oneness Pentecostal) beliefs, but here's what I see. In John 1:1, it says that "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God". Also, the Lord's prayer found in Matthew 6:9 begins, "Our Father, who art in heaven...." And in Luke 23:46 "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit." In all of these verses, it's clear that Jesus and the Father are two separate and distinct persons. To deny these verses is to deny the truth and teachings of the bible.

In 1 Timothy 2:5, the bible states that there is one mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus. If a person is accused of commiting a crime and goes only to a mediator, but not to the judge himself, he walks away no different than he came. It's the mediator's job to plead the case to the judge, who then has the final job of assigning guilt or innocence. So, if a person believes that the Father (final judge)doesn't even exist, that person hasn't been pardoned.

Only God can know our hearts, but in my opinion, the man who does not believe that the Father (final judge) even exists, and the woman who believes in the trinity and the face-value teachings of the bible, are not on level ground, spiritually.

This is just my opinion, based on the teachings of the bible, but if this were my situation, I would be concerned for my spouse's salvation and eternity.

 

[Nikos]

The people I know who are Jesus Only have strong beliefs about who are actually saved. If you are a trinitarian, many of the JO people do not believe you are saved. Also they believe that you must be baptized in water in the name of Jesus Only to be saved. One more thing that I have encounterd is that they believe that you must have the baptism of the Holy spirit and speak with tongues to be saved. These requirements might be a souce of trouble for the trinitarian. You need to think this through. Remember marriage is for a lifetime.

 

[Trisha]

I forgot to mention that this is a an "independent pentecostal church" They do speak in tongues but don't believe this saves you. They don't believe baptism saves you. They are Jesus only still and speak in tongues in church, that is all. They believe that faith in what Jesus did on the cross saves, not baptism or speaking in tongues. He lives for God. Doesn't think it matters about whether you are baptized in Jesus name or Father, Son and Holy Ghost, because he doesn't believe it saves you. He believes its an act of obedience. He reads his Bible daily and prays and lives in obedience to God, attends church very regularly and I see the fruit.

The only thing I can think of is the scripture that says if you have the Son you have the Father also. So might be a skewed doctrine compared to what trinitarians like me believe, but I do believe he is still saved. Maybe God will straighten him out when he gets where he is headed. He has a genuine love for the Lord as far as I can tell and we met in the spring.

Thank you for your posts. I will think about this alot, we are just friends for now. We are older, had our children, no rush to be more than friends, as in marriage, but I always wonder about things ahead of time, just in case. Just enjoying the friendship for now.

 

[Smokey Jack]

Christian or Catholic

Trisha,

Have you considered that both of your theological positions may not be correct concerning the true relation between God and Christ. This would be a great time for both of you to study the issue of the true nature of God in Christ like the bereans did (Acts 17:11).

I know of some excelent books on this topic. Let me know if you would like to know.

 

[spirit1st]

LOVE conquerors ALL 100% if the LOVE is there and I mean the kind of LOVE , GOD has for us! Then there is no problem !
You see GOD puts HIS kind of LOVE in us! if we are Born -Again! the key is Born of GOD!
Marriage is Holy and a bonding!
It is NOt to be taken lightly!
We are to be LED by His HOLY GHOST !We just ask HIm!



there are books to believe any way a person wants!
But if we want the Correct understanding? then we must get it from the HOLY GHOST! HE alone gives Spiritual understanding! Mankind cannot, unless they have been taught by our LORD!

 

[adelle]

Christian

This topic really annoys me, we have some missionaries in our church (Pentacostal) who have just been to itally, coming back with how Catholics have been converted to christians. Cathliocs are christians they accept christ as their Lord and Saviour we should be speding our time with people who have no idea who God is not rather than trying to save people who are all ready saved but have a slightly diffrant view to us.

 

[Trisha]

Well, Catholics that I know are prideful that they have the stamp of Catholic on their foreheads. They do not know that ONLY Jesus is needed for salvation. They don't know what they "believe" in. The religion is so clouded with other things for salvation as well as Jesus. I was married for 30 years to one so do know about Catholics. Why don't they call themselves Christians instead of standing apart? Its because they will not look into the Bible and have never read it ever before. They have to be infant baptized, they pray to Saints and Mary and their dead relatives. God can perform miracles and does to reach some of the people who say they are Catholic. They usually seek Him outside of the Catholic church's extra teachings that are in the catechism, such as purgatory. They do it on their own because of the desire to know Jesus and when the ones I know find out the falsehoods they have been taught, they are very very angry for not being told of the simple gospel. So if the pentecostal missionaries go to them, that is to God's glory if they can lead some to the Lord. This is a fact, they don't have a SLIGHTLY different view, their view is obscurred from seeing what Jesus wholely and completely accomplished for us, with no other necessary things for salvation. Congrats to the Pentecostal missionaries to Italy because it is very very hard to break through the rituals and falsehoods of Catholicism.

 

[spirit1st]

Salvation is a nEW BEING! WE are made NEW CREATURES in our Spirit! it has nothing to do with our works or our flesh! So many think the things we see are important as far as Salvation goes! It is Not!
It is all about our Spirit!
Every church we see will be destroyed 100% as well as Everything else we see!
The True church is unseen!
It is those who have been made new creatures! they alone are GODS Elect!
Born Again, Born of God , born from above and Born of OUR SPIRIT! is God giving us a 2nd chance , by giving us a new Spirit!
We know it when it takes place and we never forget that moment!
We give ourselves to HIm and All we have!

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Many think they are saved and are not!
Sad because salvation is so simple and easy !
But as I see it ? Many will Not allow HIM , His proper place as LORD and Master of our lives!

 

[alex franklin]

This topic really annoys me, we have some missionaries in our church (Pentacostal) who have just been to itally, coming back with how Catholics have been converted to christians. Cathliocs are christians they accept christ as their Lord and Saviour we should be speding our time with people who have no idea who God is not rather than trying to save people who are all ready saved but have a slightly diffrant view to us.

hi,
Until recently i was a catholic, i was taught that god is ever angry and unreachable and only with the help of saints and mary we can achieve salvation. As a result we used to pray to ever tom, **** and harry and the so called queen of heaven. Belive me i lost all interest in God and our church became a sort of sunday club nothing more, i went my own way and soon i would have been totally lost but for the grace of GOD, i finally found the truth and learned that living with GOD is the most joyful thing in life. I know of many good catholics who dont know this truth and continue to travel down that dangerous road and they need to be saved as much as other people if any thing only more .
Praise The Lord.

 

[spirit1st]

Years ago when a young man! I came home from church! My LORD JESUS CHRIST asked me Who was I going to follow HIm or the pastor?
I said , YOU LORD!
HE said DO IT THEN! and it was not nice , But sounded very harsh and bought Great fear to my mind!
Now I follow no one , but My LORD and have been taught by the HOLY GHOST!
HE waits 24/7 for us to ask and hear HIm and be led by HIM!

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Of course here HE says ? WE will hear HIM and follow HIM!
The two folds of course are the gentiles and jews , becoming one fold! one family!


Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[farouk]

Ms M:

Ephesians, Hebrews and Romans are a great help, too, for those with an R Catholic background.

Take care.

Chad,
Thank you for this excellent study on Catholicism. My two best friends are Catholic and I've been struggling to find the appropriate resources to help me witness to them. I will definitely use some of the logic you've presented in this post, in addition to the Catechism book I've just purchased and another book entitled, "Conversations with Catholics" by James G. McCarthy. If you haven't read it, I would highly recommend it. I've even purchased copies for my two friends and am trying to get up the nerve to give them their copies. Again, thanks for sharing this post with us.
Grace and peace to you,
Amy

 

[Larum]

If catholics knew The Bible They wouldn't be catholics. I used to be in that church but when I read all Bible I started going to protestant churches. in my country people don't like those who change their denomination, but for me the truth was more important

 

[Mark of Faith]

A brief run-down of false teaching

Hi brothers and sisters,

I am wanting to add to my website a brief (250-400 word) overview of the main false doctrines of the Romanist church. Can anyone help with the main points I should include?

Many thanks,
Mark.

 

[Alan C]

I believe in the unity of believers of the Christian Faith. I also believe in the infallability of the Holy Scriptures. Therefore if doctrines do not follow scripture therefore there is something wrong. Not being a Catholic I do not know much about their teaching but I cannot understand why they hold Mary in such high regard and pray to her. Surely this is taking honour away from Jesus who is the Son of God and died for our sin and rose again triumphantly over death so we could go free. I will grant that some Catholic have accepted Jesus as their Saviour but because of fear of being excumunicated from their church continue in the Catholic Church. These people we should encourage to break free of error not critisize. The doctrines should be challenged not the people.

 

[Mark of Faith]

Hi Alan C, welcome to tJ.

I agree that we should not reject Roman Catholics, but rather love as we are called to love all. But we should be bold to point out the falsehood of many of that church's doctrines. Same applies to JWs and Mormons.

I firmly believe that there are many true believers in the Romanist church. The Bible says that in the last days the Lord "will call His people out of Babylon." I believe that eyes will be opened, ears unstopped, and the true Christians in Romanism will come out from that institution.

God bless,
Mark.

 

[Alan C]

Hi Mark

Thanks for your comments. I firmly agree with you that we sould speak out for Biblical principals.

 

[shipwrecksoul]

The power of Gods true call

My human father was brought up catholic. In fact he was trained by Benedictine monks in Italy 1919-1924. He knew 7 languages fluently. He even helped priest here in America in the late 60's. And of course his whole life, and part of mine, was Catholicism. One day my wife and I asked him over for dinner. I was 19, her and me born again, and he was about 80. I remember it as if it was yesterday. We had pork chops and rice and a glass of red wine. As we finish eating we began to talk and this is what I asked my father. I said, "Popa when we die where do we go." And he replied, "Mario no one knows." You see with his vast knowledge and training and practise in the Catholic church no one never shared with him the almighty love of God expressed through a promise.
The promise of God being true to his word that he sent his son into the world to save sinners such as you and I. He only knew of people saying his religion was foul. He only knew what he knew. Here was a man who knew sin in his life but no one never had the guts to tell him of Gods simple plan of salvation to resolve that sin problem. Here was a man who if you knocked his religion would almost attack you. Here was a soul that if someone had proclaim liberty in a promise from God even in his self he would have listen. So my reason for writing all this is I think its great when people point out the contradiction practice in the Catholic church that is not in accordance with Gods word. And I think its also equally great to share the Gospel for these individuals to see their need of Christ. This way they are not just getting out of one religion into another but finding a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
Being found by Christ makes one a saint, a christian.
Leaving a religion makes one just the same, a sinner.

 

[Mark of Faith]

shipwrecksoul:

What you say is very true.
So often we can get uppitty about what's wrong with another's viewpoint and end up driving them far from us, when the primary virtue we should show is love.

Thank you sws, for your reminder that, though yes, we should speak against falsehood, we should do so in a spirit of gentleness, kindness and love. (Perhaps we might also include the other fruit of the Spirit in that list!).

God bless,
Mark.

 

[farouk]

For example, take a look at summaries and headings about many of the chapters in Romans, Galatians and Hebrews.

Hi brothers and sisters,

I am wanting to add to my website a brief (250-400 word) overview of the main false doctrines of the Romanist church. Can anyone help with the main points I should include?

Many thanks,
Mark.

 

[Davy]

I too was brought up a Catholic!

As a young lad I went to the Catholic church every week, but as I got older, I started reading the Bible along with the Catholic pray book.
Its alarming now, when I look back, those who are in power have actually changed the 10 Commandments in the Catholic pray book. They have split up the last Commandment in to two. No, 9, You must not covert your neighbours goods, and No. 10, You must not covert your neighbours wife or husband.
Gess which Commandment they have taken out? The SECOND Commandment, which has two parts, you must not have any "Idols" and you must not "Bow down to them." (Exodus 20)
Its no wonder why, the Catholic church is full of idols and they bow down to them!
Remember what the Bible says about those who alter the scriptures! (Rev 22:18) How can a faith built on deception have God's approval???