Christian or Catholic?

[LatterDays]

This is an interesting post, and heartrending in some ways. The division, the strong feelings, the searching...

1. What does God say?
If we all reverence God, then shouldn't that be a common platform from which to start?

Does God expect us to accept all as brothers who name the name of Jesus as an act of Christian love? Or does He expect us to weigh that witness by the light of Scripture to see what is really true?

Does God care if people believe things that are at odds with Scripture or is God happy just to have us all consider ourselves Christians?

Based on the Scriptures, God seems to be very concerned about truth and error. So, I think we have to be concerned about that too.

2. The instutition vs. the Person
I think it is also important to consider the differences between the institution and the people in the institution. Even if the institution is corrupt (as some have asserted), the people are still able to be saved.

3. Let's not put anything before God
Let's not be so beholden to our beliefs (whether for or against) that we cannot engage in open dialogue about the Truth of the matter. Those who seek after righteousness verily shall be filled. If we truly desire to know the truths of God, He will reveal them. It we pervert, dismiss, or downgrade God's word in order to cater to our beliefs, then that is idolatry.

Lastly, I have to say that I have never been part of a Christian forum before that allowed such open discussion. Most are so afraid of offending someone, that there can never be any real discussions of substance.

So, thank you Moderators and all for at least allowing the discussion to come forth and for trusting the Spirit of the Loving God to have has way, even in this forum.

 

[LatterDays]

My Testimony
I was raised a Catholic, and attended Catholic school from Kindergarten to 12th grade. In 5th grade, we were told that the closest we could be to God was to be a priest or a nun. So, I desired to be a nun. I studied and volunteered in the convent. I taught Sunday School, was active in various church ministries, but I still felt as if I didn't know God.

I tried to read my Bible, but it really just didn't make sense to me. This only served to confirm the church's teaching that only they were equipped to properly understand and reveal the meaning of God's words.

I was practically killing myself to try and know the Lord - working my fingers to the bone in the church - and was no closer to knowing who He really was. Further, the more I sought the Lord, the more concerned I became about what I saw in my church. The same people raising their hands in prayer were the very ones engaging in fornication, murder, adultery, homosexuality, molestation, backbiting, etc...including the priests, a couple of whom died from AIDS. No, no one is perfect, but I could find this type of disregard for God in the world. How could this be? How could this be the pillar of truth and yet the light of God was no where to be seen?

I am not saying this is the depiction of every Catholic church. I am saying that these experiences are some of the things which prompted me to begin questioning and seeking more. I finally told God, "If you are real, you have to let me know because I am about to just give up."

True to form, God did just that. One of the first things He had me to do was buy a Bible. I spent days and nights in fasting and prayer as He explained the Bible to me. I could not hear His audible voice at that time, but He gave me understanding. All of a sudden, things that were Greek to me before were now crystal clear. He led me through the Bible and helped me to see how Scripture explains Scripture.

God showed me how the doctrines I had been taught by the RCC and had been believing were in error. He told me to leave the RCC and I did so immediately. I asked Jesus into my heart, got baptised, and joined a new church that God brought me to.

This is my personal experience and is not meant to be the evidence for anyone else's decision. However, knowing God's direction to me about the RCC, I could not in good conscience say that being Catholic is the same as being Christian. More importantly, when looking at the Scriptures, there are very real contradictions with the RCC doctrine.

I believe that God deals with every person individually, but I also believe that God's plan of salvation also includes bringing people out of the RCC into full fellowship with Him (as well as from other false doctrines).

 

[amadeus2]

My own testimony is somewhat similar, Latterdays. I grew up in a Roman Catholic Church and was an altar boy from very early until I graduated from high school and moved away to college. During those Catholic years I was very devout and wanted to draw closer to God. My direction was toward the priesthood. I never became a priest and have not been an active Catholic for well over 40 years. God has led me along a better pathway...

 

[SpiritLedEd]

How could this be the pillar of truth and yet the light of God was no where to be seen?

Latterdays, your testimony speaks of the Roman Catholic Church as it was when I was in it; an entrenched heirarchial bureaucracy that, like the Pharisees Jesus encountered, is not open to change.

I left the Catholic Church before it happened, but, I recall the days when the priest-pedophile scandal broke out in the United States. The U.S. Bishops went before the news media proclaiming their outrage at the situation. They appointed a commission of lay people to investigate. Lawsuits filed by victims began to shake the church. As the commission began its investigation (under media scrutiny), many bishops tried to block access to their dioceses' records, prompting one member of the commission to furiously accuse them in the media of 'circling the wagons' to protect the church's physical assets.

I'm not saying that every Catholic bishop reacted that way and I'm not saying that the Catholic Church in America isn't Christian, but, I am saying that, as a body, they are much too concerned with maintaining the status quo - unchanging control of the organization. In America we have a saying that says, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" The Roman Catholic Church needs to face the fact that it is "broke" and desperately in need of being fixed as only the Holy Spirit can.

SLE

 

[golfjack]

reply

I was a Catholic for 37 years. I know what they teach, and it sure isn't Biblical. I do not have a problem with Catholic people. But, I do have problems with this churchy system. Hope they come to their senses and are led by the Spirit.


Peace, Golfjack

 

[ImmanuelWithUs]

My Testimony
I was raised a Catholic, and attended Catholic school from Kindergarten to 12th grade. In 5th grade, we were told that the closest we could be to God was to be a priest or a nun. So, I desired to be a nun. I studied and volunteered in the convent. I taught Sunday School, was active in various church ministries, but I still felt as if I didn't know God.

I tried to read my Bible, but it really just didn't make sense to me. This only served to confirm the church's teaching that only they were equipped to properly understand and reveal the meaning of God's words.

I was practically killing myself to try and know the Lord - working my fingers to the bone in the church - and was no closer to knowing who He really was. Further, the more I sought the Lord, the more concerned I became about what I saw in my church. The same people raising their hands in prayer were the very ones engaging in fornication, murder, adultery, homosexuality, molestation, backbiting, etc...including the priests, a couple of whom died from AIDS. No, no one is perfect, but I could find this type of disregard for God in the world. How could this be? How could this be the pillar of truth and yet the light of God was no where to be seen?

I am not saying this is the depiction of every Catholic church. I am saying that these experiences are some of the things which prompted me to begin questioning and seeking more. I finally told God, "If you are real, you have to let me know because I am about to just give up."

True to form, God did just that. One of the first things He had me to do was buy a Bible. I spent days and nights in fasting and prayer as He explained the Bible to me. I could not hear His audible voice at that time, but He gave me understanding. All of a sudden, things that were Greek to me before were now crystal clear. He led me through the Bible and helped me to see how Scripture explains Scripture.

God showed me how the doctrines I had been taught by the RCC and had been believing were in error. He told me to leave the RCC and I did so immediately. I asked Jesus into my heart, got baptised, and joined a new church that God brought me to.

This is my personal experience and is not meant to be the evidence for anyone else's decision. However, knowing God's direction to me about the RCC, I could not in good conscience say that being Catholic is the same as being Christian. More importantly, when looking at the Scriptures, there are very real contradictions with the RCC doctrine.

I believe that God deals with every person individually, but I also believe that God's plan of salvation also includes bringing people out of the RCC into full fellowship with Him (as well as from other false doctrines).

Thank you very much for sharing your story. This is very interesting!

 

[lexi_09]

I am a Catholic (former Protestant). I admit I had fallen away for a long time a not putting Christ first. I am not going to bash other denominations. We all have one main goal, to get to heaven and be with Him forever. I do consider myself saved as a catholic. I repented of my sins and accepted Him as my TOTAL SAVIOR. Sadly many catholics don't know what saved is. Thank you Nigh for your statement (even though it was so long ago, I am new here! I as a Catholic I put Christ first in my life, despite all of the doctrine. I know my goal is to trust in the Lord, be obedient to Him and never fall away, especially during these times. Though it is a hard walk, I want to deepen my relationship with Jesus. I will not judge another on their views of the catholic church, that is your thinking. I will love all of my brothers and sisters in Christ as we will soon be with Him forever! May God Bless you all! Happy to be a part of a Christ centered community!

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Welcome to TalkJesus, Lexi. I'm a former Roman Catholic who also hates "denomination bashing" (I believe the Lords hates it, too!).

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[GrooveTurtle]

Dear Chad,
I would be very happy if you would read the book Surprised by truth (or Surprised by truth 2) from Patrick Madrid.

If you are honestly searching for the truth, it could be a further stepstone on your personal way.

God bless!
Turtle

 

[francis86]

I am Catholic. We venerate and love the Virgin Mary, worship is for God alone. There is a big difference.

 

[Boanerges]

I live in Louisiana. This is the most Catholic state in the USA. Having grown up in a Catholic home I am familiar with many of the practices of their church and know a great deal of these precious people. If I had to boil it down for you I would say that on average about 1 in 20 actually knows more than just a little bit about their own churches doctrine. Most seemed convinced that ritual will save them.
I have met a very few who actually have a relationship with Christ.

As far as Mary- she was a nice little Jewish girl and God needed a human vessel to bring forth His Son so that He may walk as a man.
Most Catholics I know openly give Mary worship and tell me that Jesus will hear their prayers if His mother asks. The major problem with that is the He was God from eternity and created all things. She was mother to His physical body only. Yet I can testify that I have seen hundreds kiss the feet of statues (idols) of Mary and other saints. If asked they generally deny they are worshipping yet they fall prostrate and grovel before these stone statues. And they pray openly to them instead of God seeking intercession and favors. I do not believe there is any scriptural evidence that the dead can answer or even redirect the prayers of the living.
All in all they are generally nice people and are sincere in their love for God. It is however only whne they find a living relationship with Jesus Christ that they are saved. And as the Lord Himself said - unless a man be born again he cannot see (understand or have part in) the Kingdom of God.
Sadly the also equate the word of relgious men to be equal to the Word of God even though it is often in direct contradiction to that Word.
These precious souls are to be loved and prayed for as Christ prayed a great price for them.


<DIR>1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
</DIR>

 

[Boanerges]

BTW the bible plainly declares that old Joe did not know Mary in the biblical sense of the word until she gave birth to Jesus. After that she like all Jewish girls at the time wanted to have as many babies as possible.


<DIR>Mat 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: Mat 1:25[ And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. </DIR>

 

[JWayne]

Chad, TY so much for sharing these concerns with us. It is so warming to hear the truth.

 

[GrooveTurtle]

Unity in Christ

Is this according to the unity which is said in Epesian 4?

 

[SpiritLedEd]

[/I]

As far as Mary- she was a nice little Jewish girl and God needed a human vessel to bring forth His Son so that He may walk as a man.

While I agree that Mary should not be worshipped, I think this statement unfairly downgrades her role in the birth and life of the boy Jesus. My study of Luke 1:26-56 shows that Mary was much more than a nice little Jewish girl. She was a young girl of extraordinary, unmatched faith in God and openness to His leadership.

If God only wanted a nice little Jewish girl, isn't it possible that the birth of Jesus could have happened at multiple other times through other young women? I believe that Mary was chosen because of the level of her devotion and openness to God. Since Jesus temporarily surrendered the use of His powers and prerogatives when He came to earth as man (see Phil 2:6-8), Mary had to be the one to play the vital mother's role in His early development, before the Holy Spirit came on Him and His public ministry began.

SLE

 

[Boanerges]

Well a lot of that is how you look at it I suppose. Mary had to be overshadowed by God's grace because she was lost in sin like all of humanity.
I do not diss her in any way as she was a good girl who had the courage to beleive God. It certainly was not easy being an unmarried pregnant teen in that culture and the appreance of the angel would have frightened anyone.
But no there could be only one birthing of Christ and while it did not need to be Mary specifically she was non the less the one who got the job. Her parents were in the line of David as were Joes so she was a eligable candidate. God's plans do not hinge on our cooperation.
After her delivery she went on to be a good wife for Joe (and all that entails) and a good mom to Jesus.
So no I do not diss Mary at all but I do think it is blasphemy to deify her in any way.

To quote Jesus:


<DIR><DIR>Mar 3:32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
[Mar 3:33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
Mar 3:34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mar 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

</DIR><DIR></DIR><DIR></DIR><DIR></DIR><DIR>
Luk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
</DIR></DIR>

 

[Boanerges]

I guess I am considering that the Apostles and the Prophets were simply men of like passions and could relate to the average person. I think people are just people but they can of course accomplish extraordinary things when moved on by the Spirit of God.

 

[ShepherdsHorn]

I am Catholic and I love Christ.

I am Catholic, I love the Lord Christ above all things, I read the Bible and listen to his word. I have been attacked for my faith but I stand strong in He who gives all strength. Christ led me to the Church where he wanted me and within the Scriptures, I have grown. I speak with my Lord daily, designate prayer-time at night and LOVE HIM SO!

Communion is important to me because I get to accept my Lord spiritually and physically- with my soul and body.
The Pope is just a teacher to me and a moral guide, Mary is Jesus's mother who loves us all. The saints are up there singing with the angels.

These beliefs condemn no one long as their eyes are on the big picture: That is Christ and the blood he poured out for us all, which by the way, Catholics firmly believe in.
Peace be with you all, your sister in Christ, Rachel G.

 

[carlos marquez]

That was a very good Sleepy.

 

[carlos marquez]

Praise the Lord Shepherdshorn,bless your heart for the love you have for our Lord Jesus.