Christian or Catholic?

[carlos marquez]

I have a great big question.
Where did the refomers of the Christian faith come from?

 

[Gracealone]

They came out of the Catholic Church, of course, but not from the line of Peter as taught.
The name Catholic wasn't used until about 70 AD to 312 AD after the apostles deaths.
It was used then to bring unity into the Christian faith but was miss used, and many false teaching introduced sometime after that.

 

[ShepherdsHorn]

A false church?

"They came out of the Catholic Church, of course"

A church founded on fallacy...must itself be false. Remember the parable about the tree which bears good fruit? To say that the teachings of the Apostles somehow got twisted between the line of John to his disciple Ignatius...isn't that an insult to the Apostles chosen by Christ, saying they can't keep their own teachings straight?

Even more so, wouldn't the churches founded on the Reformation who use a Bible translated in English, from Latin, from Greek, be even farther away? People, who came up with doctrines in the 1500's such as Communion as symbol only when compared to the Christ's Presence taught in 150 AD ---would be even farther away. !!!

 

[golfjack]

reply

My Catholic friend, Who are trying to kid? Many of the early church fathers were forgeries written to justify Catholic theology. Catholic theology is so messed up, it really isn't funny. By the way, how does one get saved in the Catholic Church?


Peace, Golfjack

 

[ShepherdsHorn]

forgery?

If Ignatius was a forgery, who at the time spoke truth? Who carried the teachings of the Apostles when the Bible was still in it's infancy? Who preserved the Bible once it was written? Were Polycarp, Clement and the early martyrs of the church dying for a lie, dying without knowledge of the real truth Christ carried.

If the likes of Ignatius, Iraneus, and Polycarp and Justin Martyr are dismay to Christ, give me the names of those righteous disciples who lived in the Early Church.

One is saved in the Catholic Church through the grace of Christ. Through His most holy blood shed for us on the cross. Through unwavering belief and commitment to Him. Those who carry his cross and endure unto the end.
That's a real silly question when you think about it, Catholics are saved the way that all Christians- all men are saved...by Jesus.

 

[Gracealone]

You need to read Church history....The Catholic church started to err some 300+ years after Christ arose.

The Apostles, and disciples carried the gospel forward and were martyred for their faith...all except John who died a natural death.

Error was brought in when the catholic church began to lift up one man above another....totally against the way of the Lord.
Jesus humbled himself, and became servant of all.......did you ever see Jesus wear a ring for men to kiss?
No. he wore a crown of thorns, so we might live.

Seek Jesus face, and what he was all about,and you can see the difference. OK?

Again I will say, no one is against you, only hope to help in your search for God, and his righteousness.

 

[Gracealone]

"They came out of the Catholic Church, of course"

A church founded on fallacy...must itself be false. Remember the parable about the tree which bears good fruit? To say that the teachings of the Apostles somehow got twisted between the line of John to his disciple Ignatius...isn't that an insult to the Apostles chosen by Christ, saying they can't keep their own teachings straight?

Even more so, wouldn't the churches founded on the Reformation who use a Bible translated in English, from Latin, from Greek, be even farther away? People, who came up with doctrines in the 1500's such as Communion as symbol only when compared to the Christ's Presence taught in 150 AD ---would be even farther away. !!!

No one is saying the Apostles couldn't keep their own teaching straight....they were all Martyred by the time the universal church started to err in its teaching.
They died for the gospel ,and the truth of it.
Christ crucified and risen again from the dead.

Then when Jesus passed the cup, and the wine, he was still alive. The cup, and the wine were symbolic of his coming death. He wasn't passing out bits of his body, nor ounces of his blood! Of course it was symbolic!
He said to do likewise in remembrance of him.

Also if you would go back to the original manuscripts and compare with the King James version there is no contradiction. Gods word is an everlasting word, he will see to it!

You took my quote, and forgot to add the rest; "They came out of the Catholic Church, of course, but not from the line of Peter as taught.( and your question was about the reformers, not the Apostles)
The name Catholic wasn't used until about 70 AD to 312 AD after the apostles deaths.
It was used then to bring unity into the Christian faith but was miss used, and many false teaching introduced sometime after that."

I felt you were seeking truth, and fellowship here, so we are reaching out to you, in truth and fellowship. Hope you receive it in the spirit given. Gods Love.

 

[ShepherdsHorn]

let me get this strait.

Let me get this strait. Justin Martyr, Polycarp and Clement were martyred before the Scriptural doctrines were twisted? Am I right. They died for the truth?

Have you ever read the writings of Polycarp, Clement and Justyn Martyr. I think you'd be surprised at how "Catholic" they are.

"Catholic" is a name meaning universal. Just because the name for something came later, doesn't mean it didn't exist.

 

[Gracealone]

As I said in private, we have agreed to disagree, so lift you up before the Lord, and trust you to his care.

I for one, am Christian, for they were called Christian from the beginning in Antioc, and the message was pure, and undefiled, the gospel simple, and unmarred.
Jesus, the way, the truth, and the life.

 

[ShepherdsHorn]

cool with me

We can agree to disagree. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
I will not tolerate however, being told that Catholics are not Christians. A Christian accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior. A Christian worships their Lord, the Son of God, Jesus the Christ. They call upon the name of the Trinity.
Catholics do that, Protestants do that. That's what being a Christian is all about. Peace be with you,
Rachel G.

 

[Gracealone]

We can agree to disagree. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
I will not tolerate however, being told that Catholics are not Christians. A Christian accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior. A Christian worships their Lord, the Son of God, Jesus the Christ. They call upon the name of the Trinity.
Catholics do that, Protestants do that. That's what being a Christian is all about. Peace be with you,
Rachel G.[/quote:

"I will not tolerate however, being told that Catholics are not Christian?"

I have never said that,nor do I think that.
Many Catholics,individually, are strong Christian, I know a few.
I have very good friends that are Christian, and love the Lord, but were raised Catholic, so are still in the church.
Our Pastor was raised Catholic, being Italian , he was called out by God and is now a Calvary Pastor anointed and teaching Gods word. He was at one time planing on being a priest, until he studied the Bible, and saw the truth there.
I have also witnessed kids I grew up with who were catholic, and thought they were christian, because they had catholic parents, who had never had a personal relationship with Jesus.
I believe from the words of your mouth that you love Jesus, so I wonder why you want to join a church that does in fact teach many error's in their traditions.
That alone is a concern for me.
You came here to a Christian site, so as Christians we are only concerned about the doctrine of the Catholic Church, and why you desire to be a part of that, when there are sound doctrinal churches to be a part of, that teach the gospel, and only the gospel.
It isn't as though you were raised Catholic, so you want to stay in your roots, so what is it that attracts you, when there is known error in the church! ?
If you were my own dear daughter I would be saying these same things, and would be just as concern, as I am for you.
No one is attacking you personally.......we are concerned about the influence of false teaching prevalent in most Catholic churches.
That is all......
We see in you, or at least I do, a person who truly loves the Lord, and desire to see you grounded, and established in a sound doctrine.

If that is not your heart then I guess we simply allow the working of the Holy Spirit, and the keeping power of our Lord to do his work, and Love you still, in Jesus name.
His grace is greater than all our sins, and he is able to keep us from falling.
Cant be in better hands than His.......Love you!:friends:

 

[carlos marquez]

I had the previledge of meeting a homeless man not long ago,he worked with me several
weeks.In this time I got to to know the man and his strugle,I also found out that he had grown
up in the Catholic church,we had several discusions about faith and things conserning
salvation.It didnt take me long to realize,I was preaching to the choir.
This man Im talking about is now my good friend,he has been restored and in his right
mind.He is currently attending Catholic church in new mexico and is marching on the
front lines of pro life causes.

We must be very careful and gentle because Catholics are our brothers and sisters.

 

[ShepherdsHorn]

Basic doctrine

Basic Doctrine of the Catholic Church:

<dl><dd>1. I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.</dd><dd>2. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.</dd><dd>3. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.</dd><dd>4. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.</dd><dd>5. He descended into hell. On the third day he rose again.</dd><dd>6. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.</dd><dd>7. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.</dd><dd>8. I believe in the Holy Spirit,</dd><dd>9. the holy catholic (means universal) Church, the communion of saints,</dd><dd>10. the forgiveness of sins,</dd><dd>11. the resurrection of the body,</dd><dd>12. and the life everlasting.</dd><dd>Amen.</dd></dl># 2: I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
- Catholics are "saved" !

 

[Gracealone]

Not all are saved......
Satan believes, and trembles.
It is more than saying a creed from memorization, it is a personal commitment to a personal Savior.
Jesus said to one of the top religious leaders of his day, "You must be born again, and he didn't even understand what Jesus was saying.

I sat in a Catholic church one day, and asked a priest what it was the church believed, and he quoted the same creed you just posted.
Sweat broke out all over his face, and he straight lined the creed he had memorized, and I knew it was not from his heart., so no I do not believe to be only a Catholic makes one a Christian.
That is true of all churches, just going to church doesnt make one saved.

 

[ShepherdsHorn]

Satan believes...

You misunderstood. I was trying to point out that Catholics see Christ as the Son of God, their only Savior. I showed you the Apostles Creed to show you the root-beliefs of Christianity. I was presenting a historical background.

It is sad that a lot of priests are in fact ill-equipped to deal with inquiry. I've met a lot of Protestant Pastors who could not answer my corrections very well. I don't think people in general like questions such as "what do you believe". They get intimidated and resort to repetition. I see the same repetition in the Scripture quoting of Protestants.

"Satan believes and trembles"....do you not believe and tremble? That is a poor argument for claiming the Catholic Church was spawned by Satan. Don;t tell me these aren't attacks. Just because you're not out and saying it doesn't mean I can't see the subtlety of such remarks.

Everything you accuse the Catholic Church of, I can accuse the Protestants of: twisted doctrine, abuse, ,manipulation, e.t.c.

Come on already, stop trying to prove the Catholic Church is some inherent evil and see that it seeks to glorify Christ. We try so hard to seek God- all of us, granted you have a few idiots, scoundrels and Judases, but every church does.

I am starting to get weary of devout Christians trying to test my faith, trying to tear it apart and call the church I attend "Satan" Satan means: accuser!

I found Christ in the Catholic church, not as some superpower but as a denomination, and the oldest one I can recall.... You should be rejoicing that The Catholic church brings Christ, baptism and communion to so many people, that it preaches the word of God.

Do you not attend your own churches? Do you not profess your beliefs? We do the same as you and more similarly than you think. I have seen many a Protestant criticize the Catholic Church with such fury they could burn the Vatican. (not saying you guys). Is that right? Is it right to pursue these "heresies" in your own crusade? Seriously, I see the pot calling the kettle black.

You may think the Catholic Church is stained and ugly while ignoring the fact that we with our goofy-looking Pope turn our eyes to the Spotless Lamb of God.

"All to the greater glory of God"

 

[Mrs. Davis]

Amen, I agree with your observation Chad. Most people overrated the verse DO NOT JUDGE and never form their opinion or take their time to know the truth by reading and understanding God's word.

Too the Bible also talks about having a righteous judgement.

 

[Mrs. Davis]

We can agree to disagree. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
I will not tolerate however, being told that Catholics are not Christians. A Christian accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior. A Christian worships their Lord, the Son of God, Jesus the Christ. They call upon the name of the Trinity.
Catholics do that, Protestants do that. That's what being a Christian is all about. Peace be with you,
Rachel G.

One of the things I see the catholics err in is that they confess their sins to a man that can not put their sins away. Besides when Jesus came He became our High priest and our advocate to the Father.The Bible also tells us to call no man Father on this earth.Jesus has an unchangeable priesthood. So we don't need any other priest.

 

[sister]

I was once Catholic too

Hey Brother Chad,Good thread,yes alot of us came out of Catholism!PTL we all have been set free from that false doctrine!I knew deep in my heart though when I was one as a child I loved God and Jesus,never had an attachment to mary!I know lots of spirit-filled catholics but some stiil are soul tied to mother mary,I just pray they will be set free from that someday!Well ty again and God bless your wonderful work on this blessed chat line,it is a gift to all of us who are on it!!Love,sister!

 

[HappySoul]

I'm a little ignorant to religions, but Catholics aren't Christians?

For some reason I thought that if you followed the teachings of Christ or just believed in him that you're a Christian.

Which churches/religions are best to attend if you want to be a Christian?

Are Baptists, Methodists, etc. Christians?

Thanks, I'm really wanting to start going to church.

 

[Victory53]

Agreed - from someone whose mother was Catholic and brother was hyper-Catholic.