Conversing with other religions

[Sue D.]

Greetings @Sue D. and @Curtis

Sue you seem to wander off topic frequently so I have moved few posts into this new thread, so you can continue your discussion.

I am happy change the title if required.

Here is your moved post below

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Islam is in direct contradiction to Christianity -- so -- how they or Anyone professes who Jesus Christ is. Everyone comes from a different place in their lives -- but there is but One way to salvation. The one 'thing' people Need to have in common for the sake of eternity -- is Jesus Christ as personal Savior. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the uniting factor.

There probably Are Muslims who Are born-again believers and there Are Christians who are not born-again believers. So -- conversation Is needed.

 

[Curtis]

I think, and I am not an expert on Islam, but i think they have a lot of similarities right up to the point of Abraham. They deviate from truth when they think "Ismael" (son of a bondwoman, son of the flesh) to be the one God would call his seed from, and not "Isaac". (son of the promise) which is why they are both fighting over the same city, and the same place to build their temple to worship God.

Gen 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
Gen 21:11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Gen 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

 

[Sue D.]

I think, and I am not an expert on Islam, but i think they have a lot of similarities right up to the point of Abraham. They deviate from truth when they think "Ismael" (son of a bondwoman, son of the flesh) to be the one God would call his seed from, and not "Isaac". (son of the promise) which is why they are both fighting over the same city, and the same place to build their temple to worship God.

Gen 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
Gen 21:11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Gen 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

Yes, that is a big deal for them. The difference between the son of Promise from God and the cultural practice of a handmaid providing an heir for Sarah and Abraham. I'm thinking that there are also 12 sons through Ishmael. Did some researching on that a long time ago. Those through Ishmael have been warring together for a long time.

Islam has made it their aim / goal to take over the world -- make converts 'one way or the other' -- people will surrender to Islam Or else. Christianity -- Christ died on the cross and rose again for us -- loves us and want relationship with us. Very different in many respects to Islam.

Love them to the Lord.

 

[Curtis]

Yes, that is a big deal for them. The difference between the son of Promise from God and the cultural practice of a handmaid providing an heir for Sarah and Abraham. I'm thinking that there are also 12 sons through Ishmael. Did some researching on that a long time ago. Those through Ishmael have been warring together for a long time.

Islam has made it their aim / goal to take over the world -- make converts 'one way or the other' -- people will surrender to Islam Or else. Christianity -- Christ died on the cross and rose again for us -- loves us and want relationship with us. Very different in many respects to Islam.

Love them to the Lord.

Which is now displayed to us and the world that he that was born after flesh persecutes those who are born after the Spirit. (Gal 4:29)

 

[Sue D.]

It's important to converse with others on Any subject -- how else will we know what anyone but ourselves believes.

Certain belief systems have their followers dress in a certain way in order to be outwardly easily identified. God is the only one who knows a person's heart. But we Do need to be open to talking with Any/ Every one.

Take time to get to know people when possible.

 

[Alter2Ego]

I think, and I am not an expert on Islam, but i think they have a lot of similarities right up to the point of Abraham. They deviate from truth when they think "Ismael" (son of a bondwoman, son of the flesh) to be the one God would call his seed from, and not "Isaac". (son of the promise) which is why they are both fighting over the same city, and the same place to build their temple to worship God.

Gen 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
Gen 21:11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Gen 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

Curtis:

I disagree with your comments that I bolded in red. The only "similarities" between Christians and Muslims is that Muslims accept the Hebrew (Old Testament) as the inspired word of the Abrahamic God. Considering the fact that the Islamic Koran has plagiarized many of the Hebrew characters from the Judeo-Christian Bible, that should come as no surprise.

Now to the portion of your comment, which I bolded in blue. Muslims' deviation regarding Ismael vs. Isaac pales in comparison to the Muslims' rejection of Jesus Christ as the Messiah--which is far more important than Ismael vs. Isaac. One's acceptance of Jesus Christ is crucial, because scripture makes it clear that Jesus Christ is the only means through which one can get salvation.

"{10} let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST the Nazarene, whom you impaled but whom God raised up from the dead, by this one does this man stand here sound in front of you. {11} This is 'THE STONE that was treated by you builders as of no account that has become the head of the corner.' {12} Furthermore, THERE IS NO SALVATION IN ANYONE ELSE, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved." (Acts 4:10-12)

Not only do Muslims NOT believe Jesus came down from heaven, they have demoted him to a mere prophet. In fact, Muslims regard the Islamic prophet, Muhammad, as superior to Jesus Christ.

Alter2Ego

________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

 

[Curtis]

Curtis:

I disagree with your comments that I bolded in red. The only "similarities" between Christians and Muslims is that Muslims accept the Hebrew (Old Testament) as the inspired word of the Abrahamic God. Considering the fact that the Islamic Koran has plagiarized many of the Hebrew characters from the Judeo-Christian Bible, that should come as no surprise.

Now to the portion of your comment, which I bolded in blue. Muslims' deviation regarding Ismael vs. Isaac pales in comparison to the Muslims' rejection of Jesus Christ as the Messiah--which is far more important than Ismael vs. Isaac. One's acceptance of Jesus Christ is crucial, because scripture makes it clear that Jesus Christ is the only means through which one can get salvation.

"{10} let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST the Nazarene, whom you impaled but whom God raised up from the dead, by this one does this man stand here sound in front of you. {11} This is 'THE STONE that was treated by you builders as of no account that has become the head of the corner.' {12} Furthermore, THERE IS NO SALVATION IN ANYONE ELSE, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved." (Acts 4:10-12)

Not only do Muslims NOT believe Jesus came down from heaven, they have demoted him to a mere prophet. In fact, Muslims regard the Islamic prophet, Muhammad, as superior to Jesus Christ.

Alter2Ego

________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

Any religion that might have a lot of truth, and yet error in who Jesus claimed to be (God in the flesh) would be an cult. I know very little about what Muslims believe as I never study to see where their errors might be. I only know what I have heard other Muslims tell me.

 

[Curtis]

As a Christian we can not force people to read the Bible, but, there is a way to force people to read it with out ever opening up it's pages!!

2Co 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

There is no greater way to proclaim the Gospel except by living it. We are "living epistles" known and read by ALL men. Allowing the Word of God to become "manifest" in our mortal flesh. (2 Cor 4:11) We are the only face of God the world, or anyone will ever see unless they become saved!! So, let your light shine!!!!

 

[Sue D.]

Any religion that might have a lot of truth, and yet error in who Jesus claimed to be (God in the flesh) would be an cult. I know very little about what Muslims believe as I never study to see where their errors might be. I only know what I have heard other Muslims tell me.

Muslims are going to up-hold Their beliefs as being not that much different from The Bible. They believe that their Allah is simply another name for the God the the Bible. The God of the Bible is very different from Allah.

It wouldn't hurt any to do some researching about the Muslim religion. Find out the differences between the Koran and the Bible. But we Also need to know what God's Word teaches. All 66 books of God's inspired Word to us. After all , it Is all of God's Word.

 

[Sue D.]

As a Christian we can not force people to read the Bible, but, there is a way to force people to read it with out ever opening up it's pages!!

2Co 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

There is no greater way to proclaim the Gospel except by living it. We are "living epistles" known and read by ALL men. Allowing the Word of God to become "manifest" in our mortal flesh. (2 Cor 4:11) We are the only face of God the world, or anyone will ever see unless they become saved!! So, let your light shine!!!!

It IS true that our lives might be the 1st Bible some people will 'see'. We Do need to live as Christ-like a life as possible. But we Also need to be able to share the Gospel unto salvation with others -- even to lead others to Christ -- That really Is the goal -- having the unsaved in this world come to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Then to be growing in grace and Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. We need to be in God's Word often = reading and learning and sharing with others what we Are learning. Encouraging others with His Word.

We Can share God's Word with others as opportunity presents itself. Read it With them. Invite some neighbors / friends to our house for BBQ or something informal and take a moment to read from the Psalms with them before eating. I would Not suggest reading Psalm 119 in it's entirety before eating.

 

[Curtis]

It IS true that our lives might be the 1st Bible some people will 'see'. We Do need to live as Christ-like a life as possible. But we Also need to be able to share the Gospel unto salvation with others -- even to lead others to Christ -- That really Is the goal -- having the unsaved in this world come to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Then to be growing in grace and Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. We need to be in God's Word often = reading and learning and sharing with others what we Are learning. Encouraging others with His Word.

We Can share God's Word with others as opportunity presents itself. Read it With them. Invite some neighbors / friends to our house for BBQ or something informal and take a moment to read from the Psalms with them before eating. I would Not suggest reading Psalm 119 in it's entirety before eating.

In all 40+ years of being a Christian I have had more people learn about Jesus, through living the life then ever speaking about it to anyone. Most people do not want to hear what the Bible says, as they have heard it all before, especially in the USA.
What world wants is to see is someone actually living it as proof to it being genuine, and true! That speaks volumes more than speaking it. When I was in the work force I had much more people ask me about what it is I have that makes me joyous all the time. They want what I have!!! What an opportunity to tell them!!! I do not wear clothes that have any kind of labels to advertise Jesus, nor do I have any kind of bumper stickers on my car to tell people I am a Christian. If they can not tell I am a Christian by my life, then most likely I am are not!!! There is no greater way to proclaim the Gospel than living in the Spirit, and allowing Christ to live his life in me!!!

 

[Sue D.]

@ Curtis -- okay -- you've found that people are attracted to your life at work and ask you questions -- and, yes, the world Does want to see positives in Christians. Joyousness rather than gloom and doom.

So -- as you have opportunity To share with these people -- What do you share? If I asked you 'why are you so happy all the time"? What would you tell me.

 

[Curtis]

@ Curtis -- okay -- you've found that people are attracted to your life at work and ask you questions -- and, yes, the world Does want to see positives in Christians. Joyousness rather than gloom and doom.

So -- as you have opportunity To share with these people -- What do you share? If I asked you 'why are you so happy all the time"? What would you tell me.

Through the years I have prayed with many to receive salvation, and many I just "sow" the Word into their lives, and some I water with the word. All of these were people i did not seek out, they came to me to ask the reason for the hope I have in me.

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

 

[Curtis]

@ Curtis -- okay -- you've found that people are attracted to your life at work and ask you questions -- and, yes, the world Does want to see positives in Christians. Joyousness rather than gloom and doom.

So -- as you have opportunity To share with these people -- What do you share? If I asked you 'why are you so happy all the time"? What would you tell me.

Years before I accepted Jesus to be my savior, I worked for a company that made wood products. I was a spray painter on an assembly line. I was so fast at my job I could take a lot of breaks as I waited for the line catch up to me.

One day the company hired a couple new guys. These guys were the fastest people I had ever seen. They kept busy all the time, I could not keep up with them. I saw something in these two guys I never seen before. I was not saved but I saw a light coming out of them. They were always smiling at me. At break time they would sit on the floor were we took our breaks. They kept looking at me and smiling! I knew they were Christians even though they never said two words to me. I think they were praying for me.
In all the years before coming to Jesus i have had a few people wittiness to me about the lord, but the two people I remember the most were these two guys. Their entire life spoke volumes to me even though i never talked to them.
Living the life of Christ has divine power to change other peoples lives without ever talking to them, as a city set upon hill can never be hidden. God never lights a candle and puts it under a bead, but on a lamp stand for ALL to see!!

 

[Sue D.]

Years before I accepted Jesus to be my savior, I worked for a company that made wood products. I was a spray painter on an assembly line. I was so fast at my job I could take a lot of breaks as I waited for the line catch up to me.

One day the company hired a couple new guys. These guys were the fastest people I had ever seen. They kept busy all the time, I could not keep up with them. I saw something in these two guys I never seen before. I was not saved but I saw a light coming out of them. They were always smiling at me. At break time they would sit on the floor were we took our breaks. They kept looking at me and smiling! I knew they were Christians even though they never said two words to me. I think they were praying for me.
In all the years before coming to Jesus i have had a few people wittiness to me about the lord, but the two people I remember the most were these two guys. Their entire life spoke volumes to me even though i never talked to them.
Living the life of Christ has divine power to change other peoples lives without ever talking to them, as a city set upon hill can never be hidden. God never lights a candle and puts it under a bead, but on a lamp stand for ALL to see!!

Thanks for sharing that. :smile:

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain
Philippians 2:14-16


Greetings @Sue D. @Curtis

People do scrutinise our lives, the way we behave, the way we speak.
If our lives shine with the love of Christ within us that will speak volumes....and may open the way to inquiry....whereby the truth can be shared.

Our lives have something that no other 'religion' has........a living Saviour within us.
If He cannot be seen in our lives.....then there is something wrong

I am reminded of the words of a 16th centuary poem

Christ has no body but yours,
No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
Yours are the eyes with which He looks
Compassion on this world,
Yours are the feet with which He walks to do good,
Yours are the hands, with which He blesses all the world.
Yours are the hands, yours are the feet,
Yours are the eyes, you are His body.
Christ has no body now but yours,
No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
Yours are the eyes with which He looks
compassion on this world.
Christ has no body now on earth but yours*


* Written by Teresa of Avila in the 16th centuary....who was a Catholic nun. I do not endorse Catholicism in any way.....but feel these words are thoughtprovoking and stirring

 

[Curtis]

Here is another I guess a testimony.

I am a retired electrician, but for the last fourteen years I worked for Home Depot in the electrical dept. One day while I was getting my department ready to open the store that day, there was a "vendor" who had come in to make sure our selves were set up properly. I was walking up, and down my isles straightening up the products. On my isle this vendor was working, as I walked by she said to me, "Sir, can I ask you a personal question?" I said, "sure", she said, "Why are you so happy?" I said back to her looking her in the eyes, I said, "because I am born again, and filled with the Spirit of God". Immediately she began to cry. I felt compassion for this lady as I know it would be pretty embarrassing to be crying in front of perfect stranger. Her tears just poured out of her. As I was walking away she said, "My sister and I went to a Church many years ago, and we asked Jesus to be our savior, but we never followed through with practicing our faith, and fell away" I could see a transformation taking place right before me eyes. It was like her eyes began to shine with alight that was not there earlier.

What happened? I did not do anything of my self. She saw something in me that drew her to ask me the question of why I was so happy. The Lord gave me two scriptures to explain what had happened that day.

Pro 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

Psa 18:28 For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness.

What happened was the Lord re-lit this ladies "candle" (spirit) that had gone out.

 

[Sue D.]

Here is another I guess a testimony.

I am a retired electrician, but for the last fourteen years I worked for Home Depot in the electrical dept. One day while I was getting my department ready to open the store that day, there was a "vendor" who had come in to make sure our selves were set up properly. I was walking up, and down my isles straightening up the products. On my isle this vendor was working, as I walked by she said to me, "Sir, can I ask you a personal question?" I said, "sure", she said, "Why are you so happy?" I said back to her looking her in the eyes, I said, "because I am born again, and filled with the Spirit of God". Immediately she began to cry. I felt compassion for this lady as I know it would be pretty embarrassing to be crying in front of perfect stranger. Her tears just poured out of her. As I was walking away she said, "My sister and I went to a Church many years ago, and we asked Jesus to be our savior, but we never followed through with practicing our faith, and fell away" I could see a transformation taking place right before me eyes. It was like her eyes began to shine with alight that was not there earlier.

What happened? I did not do anything of my self. She saw something in me that drew her to ask me the question of why I was so happy. The Lord gave me two scriptures to explain what had happened that day.

Pro 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

Psa 18:28 For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness.

What happened was the Lord re-lit this ladies "candle" (spirit) that had gone out.

That was definitely a 'God' thing. God knew she had a spiritual need and He arranged for you to be there with your 'spiritual light" for her to see.

And That was a 'heart-lifter' for You.

 

[Bendito]

Where did Jesus discuss other religions with anybody?....If anyone said anything Jesus simply responded with the truth. If you discuss a religion which you do not know intimately you can get sucked in by it...Stick to the truth. The Word. What does the Word say?

 

[MadHermit]

Bendito: "Where did Jesus discuss other religions with anybody?....

"Whoever is not against us is for us (Mark 9:40)." Many Christians are only aware of Jesus sayin the reverse, The context is an exorcist who doesn't follow Jesus, but invokes His name to perform successful exorcisms.

Bendito: "If you discuss a religion which you do not know intimately you can get sucked in by it...Stick to the truth. The Word. What does the Word say?"

e. g. "To those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life (Romans 2:7)."
Did you know that the Quran teaches Jesus' virgin birth?