Conversing with other religions

[Quantrill]

Though somewhat different, I would say that Jesus Christ discussed and debated with a false religion, Judaism. It was no longer a true religion of God but had become a religion of the Jews. When the truth God gave in the Old Testament became Judaism, it was just another ism. And isn't that what every cult or ism is? Straying away from the truth? Compare (Lev. 23:2,4) with (John 5:1), (John 6:4), and (John 7:2). The feasts of the LORD had become the feasts of the Jews. The synagogue was nothing but a house of satan. (Rev. 2:9) (Rev. 3:9)

Because Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles, but always went first to the Jews, he too debated in the synagogues with the Jews, and then with the Gentile false religions. At Athens he contended with the philosophers. (Acts 17:18-23) In Ephesus he disputed daily with the pagans in one school of Tyrannus. (Acts 19:9-10)

So, I believe it is legitimate to speak to those who are involved in other religions than Christianity. Especially since many try and use the reasoning that because Christianity is not the oldest religion than it merely copied things from other religions. Before entering such debate one must be grounded in his faith, and know the Word.

And though maybe a basic knowledge of a false religion may help before discussing it with them, it is more important to know your own faith. Know the Bible. In other words, if all you can say when they bring up difficult questions is, 'it is all about Jesus', which is a true statement, but it is not going to satisfy and get very far in the discussion. I would not put this in the same category as 'witnessing'. Though it certainly overlaps. The purpose in witnessing is to present their need for Jesus Christ. The purpose in debating false religions is to reveal that it is false, and that Christianity is the true religion.

Quantrill

 

[Dovegiven]

I visited my daughters often when they attended their universities. I had meals in the commons, and deliberately engaged students trying to promote Islam, and some other religions, but mostly Islam. I keep a searchable copy of the English traslation of the Quran in my phone. What I learned, and the radicals learned, was they were going by teachings, not the Islamic writings, nor were they knowledgeable of the Bible. I had to learn how to maintain a discussion rather than just send them away in disgust. That's how Paul handled the learned at Mars Hill, Athens, leading some out as believers in his gospel of Christ. It wasn't pleasant, especially when a Muslim cleric came into the discussion. My problem was initially ignorance of Islam. Over time I learned how to show the Quran contradicts itself, mix in some common virtues we have, and influence a few listeners who were departing from their childhood Christian beliefs. A few would always stay behind for a little more Q&A, then the table would be empty, mostly because folks needed to get to classes. I never knew whatever impact all that had, but at least I tried.

 

[Dovegiven]

Though somewhat different, I would say that Jesus Christ discussed and debated with a false religion, Judaism. It was no longer a true religion of God but had become a religion of the Jews. When the truth God gave in the Old Testament became Judaism, it was just another ism. And isn't that what every cult or ism is? Straying away from the truth? Compare (Lev. 23:2,4) with (John 5:1), (John 6:4), and (John 7:2). The feasts of the LORD had become the feasts of the Jews. The synagogue was nothing but a house of satan. (Rev. 2:9) (Rev. 3:9)

Because Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles, but always went first to the Jews, he too debated in the synagogues with the Jews, and then with the Gentile false religions. At Athens he contended with the philosophers. (Acts 17:18-23) In Ephesus he disputed daily with the pagans in one school of Tyrannus. (Acts 19:9-10)

So, I believe it is legitimate to speak to those who are involved in other religions than Christianity. Especially since many try and use the reasoning that because Christianity is not the oldest religion than it merely copied things from other religions. Before entering such debate one must be grounded in his faith, and know the Word.

And though maybe a basic knowledge of a false religion may help before discussing it with them, it is more important to know your own faith. Know the Bible. In other words, if all you can say when they bring up difficult questions is, 'it is all about Jesus', which is a true statement, but it is not going to satisfy and get very far in the discussion. I would not put this in the same category as 'witnessing'. Though it certainly overlaps. The purpose in witnessing is to present their need for Jesus Christ. The purpose in debating false religions is to reveal that it is false, and that Christianity is the true religion.

Quantrill

The Law of the Pentateuch and the prophesies of the prophets had to be satisfied by the life and death of Jesus. He didn't die to end a false religion. It was the leadership of the Jews who were not true Jews at heart. Paul called the Law to be holy, and it still is. Jesus removed the curse of it for His disciples, not come to destroy it all. True Jews embraced the blessings of the Law, while common Jews (of genetic ascendancy only) were mostly subject to the curses. Most of the world today still lives by the curses. I advise a Christian spend time studying apologetics before dealing with any world religion. A good source to begin with is Ravi Zacharias Ministries, both his videos and books. I am re-reading "The End of Reason" in response to a local resurgence of social insanity among people in their 20's-30's.

 

[Quantrill]

The Law of the Pentateuch and the prophesies of the prophets had to be satisfied by the life and death of Jesus. He didn't die to end a false religion. It was the leadership of the Jews who were not true Jews at heart. Paul called the Law to be holy, and it still is. Jesus removed the curse of it for His disciples, not come to destroy it all. True Jews embraced the blessings of the Law, while common Jews (of genetic ascendancy only) were mostly subject to the curses. Most of the world today still lives by the curses. I advise a Christian spend time studying apologetics before dealing with any world religion. A good source to begin with is Ravi Zacharias Ministries, both his videos and books. I am re-reading "The End of Reason" in response to a local resurgence of social insanity among people in their 20's-30's.

My point was not that Jesus died for a false religion. It was that He debated with a false religion, Judaism. Which I believe Scripture supports.

The more one studies concerning a subject, the better, of course. I'm sure aplogetics would benefit anyone. But to study apologetics is like someone giving you the answers to a test. To study the Bible, to know it, gives not just the answers, but the ability to field questions which come up, which are usually not anticipated. Apologetics is just the believer defending his faith. How much greater a study can one do than the Bible to know his faith.

Quantrill

 

[Dovegiven]

My point was not that Jesus died for a false religion. It was that He debated with a false religion, Judaism. Which I believe Scripture supports.

The more one studies concerning a subject, the better, of course. I'm sure aplogetics would benefit anyone. But to study apologetics is like someone giving you the answers to a test. To study the Bible, to know it, gives not just the answers, but the ability to field questions which come up, which are usually not anticipated. Apologetics is just the believer defending his faith. How much greater a study can one do than the Bible to know his faith.

Quantrill

Please post the scriptural support that Judaism was (and then must still be) a false religion.

Modern apologetics study relates the Bible to the latest cultural challenges. I agree it's vital to know your own faith basis, but there is a rising battlefield of troubling questions the Bible doesn't offer answers for that don't offend and destroy an opportunity to reach a troubled soul. A young man visiting caught me after Bible class, which that day was a very challenging Q&A session about the Bible, sexual morality, communism, race issues, etc. "Sir, you did not teach me anything I would change, but I wonder whether you ever change what you believe." I used a Ravi Zacharias style approach. "I assume my face is clean, but I use a mirror, which does sometimes show my face is dirty, but the mirror can't clean my face. Teaching is like that. Keep looking and listening unless you are infinitely perfect.

 

[Quantrill]

Please post the scriptural support that Judaism was (and then must still be) a false religion.

Modern apologetics study relates the Bible to the latest cultural challenges. I agree it's vital to know your own faith basis, but there is a rising battlefield of troubling questions the Bible doesn't offer answers for that don't offend and destroy an opportunity to reach a troubled soul. A young man visiting caught me after Bible class, which that day was a very challenging Q&A session about the Bible, sexual morality, communism, race issues, etc. "Sir, you did not teach me anything I would change, but I wonder whether you ever change what you believe." I used a Ravi Zacharias style approach. "I assume my face is clean, but I use a mirror, which does sometimes show my face is dirty, but the mirror can't clean my face. Teaching is like that. Keep looking and listening unless you are infinitely perfect.

I believe I did in post [HASH=1648]#(21[/HASH]).

Quantrill

 

[Dovegiven]

My point was not that Jesus died for a false religion. It was that He debated with a false religion, Judaism. Which I believe Scripture supports.

The more one studies concerning a subject, the better, of course. I'm sure aplogetics would benefit anyone. But to study apologetics is like someone giving you the answers to a test. To study the Bible, to know it, gives not just the answers, but the ability to field questions which come up, which are usually not anticipated. Apologetics is just the believer defending his faith. How much greater a study can one do than the Bible to know his faith.

Quantrill

Please post the scriptural support that Judaism was (and then must still be) a false religion.

Modern apologetics study relates the Bible to the latest cultural challenges. I agree it's vital to know your own faith basis, but there is a rising battlefield of troubling questions the Bible doesn't offer answers for that don't offend and destroy an opportunity to reach a troubled soul, among an ever increasing number of young people who have lost the power of reason. Apologetics is not a matter of defending one's faith, but to open doors for the Holy Spirit to communicate with people while they can persue what you have to preach by digging in to find an answer to questions that solutions to problems that plague them. Preaching the gospel doesn't answer such thngs other than introduce Christ to hearers who then need to be discipled. Jesus didn't just lead someone through a sinner's prayer then turn them loose with that.

 

[Quantrill]

Please post the scriptural support that Judaism was (and then must still be) a false religion.

Modern apologetics study relates the Bible to the latest cultural challenges. I agree it's vital to know your own faith basis, but there is a rising battlefield of troubling questions the Bible doesn't offer answers for that don't offend and destroy an opportunity to reach a troubled soul, among an ever increasing number of young people who have lost the power of reason. Apologetics is not a matter of defending one's faith, but to open doors for the Holy Spirit to communicate with people while they can persue what you have to preach by digging in to find an answer to questions that solutions to problems that plague them. Preaching the gospel doesn't answer such thngs other than introduce Christ to hearers who then need to be discipled. Jesus didn't just lead someone through a sinner's prayer then turn them loose with that.

See post [HASH=1648]#(21[/HASH]). Ignoring it does nothing.

Quantrill

 

[Dovegiven]

Though somewhat different, I would say that Jesus Christ discussed and debated with a false religion, Judaism. It was no longer a true religion of God but had become a religion of the Jews. When the truth God gave in the Old Testament became Judaism, it was just another ism. And isn't that what every cult or ism is? Straying away from the truth? Compare (Lev. 23:2,4) with (John 5:1), (John 6:4), and (John 7:2). The feasts of the LORD had become the feasts of the Jews. The synagogue was nothing but a house of satan. (Rev. 2:9) (Rev. 3:9)

Because Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles, but always went first to the Jews, he too debated in the synagogues with the Jews, and then with the Gentile false religions. At Athens he contended with the philosophers. (Acts 17:18-23) In Ephesus he disputed daily with the pagans in one school of Tyrannus. (Acts 19:9-10)

So, I believe it is legitimate to speak to those who are involved in other religions than Christianity. Especially since many try and use the reasoning that because Christianity is not the oldest religion than it merely copied things from other religions. Before entering such debate one must be grounded in his faith, and know the Word.

And though maybe a basic knowledge of a false religion may help before discussing it with them, it is more important to know your own faith. Know the Bible. In other words, if all you can say when they bring up difficult questions is, 'it is all about Jesus', which is a true statement, but it is not going to satisfy and get very far in the discussion. I would not put this in the same category as 'witnessing'. Though it certainly overlaps. The purpose in witnessing is to present their need for Jesus Christ. The purpose in debating false religions is to reveal that it is false, and that Christianity is the true religion.

Quantrill

I don't see a thing in that post supporting your notion Judaism was just another false "ism" religion.

I frankly think it is absurd to posit Jesus debated with a false religion He grew up observing, honoring Judaism perfectly. If you got that from Wiki, I understand the source of confusion, which linked the Israelite religion back to the many world religions that preceded them, such as those of Egypt and other neighbors.

Jesus contended with men who had corrupted the practice of the religion centered in Judah, Jerusalem specifically, which name is not an "ism", Judah being named of one of the children of Isaac (Jacob), and the religion established there was a holy religion, and always will be holy. Jesus might well have been the only Rabbi left practicing true Judaism, but did have at least one admirer in Nicodemus. Many admirers welcomed Jesus as their King as He entered the city, though too many millennia ahead of that role among them. Pharisees and even the priests could not have made the religion of the Pentateuch a false religion. It was still there for Jesus to observe.

Among Christians, Christianity" has it's wolves among sheep, false teachers who have done much harm in the name of Jesus and other names. They do not and will never render Christianity a false religion, making the faith just another "ism".

 

[Bendito]

I don't see a thing in that post supporting your notion Judaism was just another false "ism" religion.

I frankly think it is absurd to posit Jesus debated with a false religion He grew up observing, honoring Judaism perfectly. If you got that from Wiki, I understand the source of confusion, which linked the Israelite religion back to the many world religions that preceded them, such as those of Egypt and other neighbors.

Jesus contended with men who had corrupted the practice of the religion centered in Judah, Jerusalem specifically, which name is not an "ism", Judah being named of one of the children of Isaac (Jacob), and the religion established there was a holy religion, and always will be holy. Jesus might well have been the only Rabbi left practicing true Judaism, but did have at least one admirer in Nicodemus. Many admirers welcomed Jesus as their King as He entered the city, though too many millennia ahead of that role among them. Pharisees and even the priests could not have made the religion of the Pentateuch a false religion. It was still there for Jesus to observe.

Among Christians, Christianity" has it's wolves among sheep, false teachers who have done much harm in the name of Jesus and other names. They do not and will never render Christianity a false religion, making the faith just another "ism".

Jesus never debated another religion anywhere. What He did was to speak the truth. Only that. "You must be born again." He never told anybody that what they believed was wrong. He only spoke what they needed to do right.

 

[Dovegiven]

Jesus never debated another religion anywhere. What He did was to speak the truth. Only that. "You must be born again." He never told anybody that what they believed was wrong. He only spoke what they needed to do right.

Well, He did come down hard on the Scribes and Pharisees trying to trip Him up, the wolves, calling them all sorts of names in what I call the WOE chapter of Matthew 23, the men wrongly sitting in Moses' seat.

 

[Quantrill]

I don't see a thing in that post supporting your notion Judaism was just another false "ism" religion.

I frankly think it is absurd to posit Jesus debated with a false religion He grew up observing, honoring Judaism perfectly. If you got that from Wiki, I understand the source of confusion, which linked the Israelite religion back to the many world religions that preceded them, such as those of Egypt and other neighbors.

Jesus contended with men who had corrupted the practice of the religion centered in Judah, Jerusalem specifically, which name is not an "ism", Judah being named of one of the children of Isaac (Jacob), and the religion established there was a holy religion, and always will be holy. Jesus might well have been the only Rabbi left practicing true Judaism, but did have at least one admirer in Nicodemus. Many admirers welcomed Jesus as their King as He entered the city, though too many millennia ahead of that role among them. Pharisees and even the priests could not have made the religion of the Pentateuch a false religion. It was still there for Jesus to observe.

Among Christians, Christianity" has it's wolves among sheep, false teachers who have done much harm in the name of Jesus and other names. They do not and will never render Christianity a false religion, making the faith just another "ism".

I gave you Scripture.

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

Well, He did come down hard on the Scribes and Pharisees trying to trip Him up, the wolves, calling them all sorts of names in what I call the WOE chapter of Matthew 23, the men wrongly sitting in Moses' seat.

LOL He did that! Still....It wasn't 'another religion' but the leaders of the one He had been born into. And He was right in calling them out, and in what He called them

 

[Dovegiven]

A sure way to close an open door to witness Christ with someone observing or respecting a world religion is to put up front they are wrong. Tesrimonies mixed with the Word of God are often sufficient to at least stimulate them to investigate.

 

[Dovegiven]

I gave you Scripture.

Quantrill

Sorry, but those are non sequitur to your claim. There are no such scriptures making your claim. You can try again, or at least present them in context both locally and remotely in two or more books leaving no question of such an outrageous claim. I present the testimony of the first five books in the English Bible. God gave that religion.

 

[Bendito]

A sure way to close an open door to witness Christ with someone observing or respecting a world religion is to put up front they are wrong. Tesrimonies mixed with the Word of God are often sufficient to at least stimulate them to investigate.

To tell a person that their beliefs are wrong, and the things wrong with their religion will only tell the person that they have been duped and that they are not smart enough to see the truth. That will usually anger them and get your coffee kicked into your lap.....I know by experience...What a waste of good coffee.

 

[Quantrill]

Sorry, but those are non sequitur to your claim. There are no such scriptures making your claim. You can try again, or at least present them in context both locally and remotely in two or more books leaving no question of such an outrageous claim. I present the testimony of the first five books in the English Bible. God gave that religion.

Sorry, but answer the Scriptures I gave first, and then we will see if more is necessary.

Quantrill

 

[Dovegiven]

Sorry, but answer the Scriptures I gave first, and then we will see if more is necessary.

Quantrill

You have fallen short. You can keep trying, but apparently no reply will change you. That doesn't stop me from praying for you until God says STOP.

 

[Dave M]

You have fallen short. You can keep trying, but apparently no reply will change you. That doesn't stop me from praying for you until God says STOP.

Hey @Dovegiven you profile will not let me start a private conversation with you, can you start one with me

 

[Dovegiven]

Hey @Dovegiven you profile will not let me start a private conversation with you, can you start one with me

I think I did it right, first time in 10 years to go PM. Followed then "allow followed". I have up to an hour a day of posting time between work projects, more time on bad weather days when our business shuts down.