Do we have freewill ? did we have freewill since the beginning ?

[emanuel88]

Part 9: The real wisdom to find in the bible ! Part of freewill

Jesus does want you to be like him and be wise like King Solomon and be better than him !

But remember if you don't have love and wisdom you cannot do it !

The three most important things to have are faith, hope and love. But the greatest of them is love.

1 Corinthians 13:13​

Love and wisdom is the most important thing and how to have both them ! Is thru prayer for God has used simple man and farmers to become kings and the smartest people in the world like prophets ! Because God wields it and he can give to you beloved. Pray, pray and pray and he will give it ! Nothing is impposible for him !

God will give it ! You can intelligence, knowledge, and instinct but worthless if you do put under God's word and do the right thing ! God's way ! Do this and God will give you the personal mission he will reveal that to you if you sacrifice to him and deny yourself. I do pray you do it because God does want you to have it. The promblem is yourself really look for God's way people he does give it and remember he does give the path for you to look for the bible and be baptized early in your life no excuse you should of looked for it and you would of found the answers. Apology to you all for being to fast and telling you in this crude way. Do wish for you to find the mission and live your life to the fullest. God bless !

 

[Johanabrahams]

The Greatest Moment was when God created Adam/Lucifer. He created him Good. And gave Him his choice on which life he wants. To be god himself in intellect and the tree of knowledge to eat from or eat the Tree of Life where He enter God's Life in a birth from God to be His Child in Obedience to Him. And as was suspected this was "too much" for Adam/Lucifer. He chose to be "god". To create his own life. Thus he missed big time in being born of God and enjoying Real God Life in the Holy Spirit of God's own Existence. And he is still enjoying today the life he created on planet earth in his intellect and knowledge after he went out of the God created Eden and had to go and create for himself a life on the planet with his intellect and knowledge to enjoy being "god" himself. But the "anti god" or "anti Christ". And Jehovah gave us some more on Him when He walked the earth in Jesus.

John 8:
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

And in the "sayings of Jehovah in Jesus" we received the Tree of Life of Eden again. To be saved from our intellectual life in knowledge and enter our Saving grace from this "untoward generation of humanity". Where we enter God Life in Living in the Name of Jesus in the Life of our "Abba Father/Daddy" who gave birth to us. In which we entered His Glorious Life in growing up in it. Which is true Heavenly Life as oppose to the "hell life" we had in Adam/Lucifer.

Acts 2:
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

 

[Rhema]

And gave Him his choice on which life he wants.

This doesn't sound like a choice to me...

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.​

(Genesis 2:16-17 KJV)

It's pretty clear that there wasn't a choice. God just expected that he would be obeyed.

The Greatest Moment was when God created Adam/Lucifer.

??? Interesting. Bizarre, but interesting. I think God just created Adam as Adam (Gen 2:19). What causes you to append this word Lucifer?

and the tree of knowledge to eat from or eat the Tree of Life

Again, it's pretty clear that there wasn't a choice with regards to the Tree of Life. Adam could eat freely, as there was no prohibition. No more a choice than oranges or bananas.

Of course after Adam gave himself brain damage, Tree of Life was removed, so again, no choice from that point on.

He chose to be "god".

Adam was lied to. It would seem obvious that the Tree of KGE was meant for a later time. Just not then. Just not yet.

To create his own life.

To some extent this is true, when it's understood that the Tree wasn't the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but the Determination of Good and Evil. Adam, as all men throughout history, determined for himself what was Good and Evil from that point on, usurping the sovereignty of God to do so. Yet every now and then a person here and there will grant that sovereignty back to God.

Thus he missed big time in being born of God and enjoying Real God Life in the Holy Spirit of God's own Existence.

Why would God create Adam apart from "enjoying Real God Life in the Holy Spirit of God's own Existence" if all of creation was good? Did not Adam walk with God in the cool of the morning? Enjoying the life God intended for Man?

And he is still enjoying today the life he created on planet earth in his intellect and knowledge after he went out of the God created Eden and had to go and create for himself a life on the planet with his intellect and knowledge to enjoy being "god" himself. But the "anti god" or "anti Christ".

This was not written well because the concepts are not clear. Or perhaps I just lack understanding, but I would suggest a re-write were I your editor. Unless this "enjoying" was meant as sarcasm. As one living in the top 1%, I have no problem looking around the world and seeing 99% are not having fun, but live in what amounts to a real hellhole.

as oppose to the "hell life" we had in Adam/Lucifer.

Ahh... I see. (maybe something got lost in translation).

And in the "sayings of Jehovah in Jesus" we received the Tree of Life of Eden again.

As an Acts 2:38 believer, Amen brother.

Kind regards,
Rhema

 

[Garee]

This doesn't sound like a choice to me...

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.(Genesis 2:16-17 KJV)

It's pretty clear that there wasn't a choice. God just expected that he would be obeyed.

Mankind created subject to the will of the designer. The choice was to both hear and obey the voice and "do not add to it or subtract from it".

Not hear but do not obey. Like Cats LOL

Lucifer the father of lies the spirit of false prophecy used by false prophets (Eve) added four words. Neither shall you touch the first false prophecy

Mankind the false pride. . Hook line and sinker

Revealing the weapon of Lucifers warfare the two building blocks of false pride (the fall) The lust of the flesh longing for things not seen. it powerfully moved them to the hidden tree of life in the center of the garden. Then the lust of the eye took over they touched did not die so that ate damnation. False prophecy the forbidden fruit

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Adam used to represent the husband Christ was given the prophecy. thou shalt not eat of it: and was to pass that prophecy down to Eve as a priestess to preach to the world. Adam failed to protect Eve from false prophecy.

1 Timothy 2:12-14;For Adam was first formed, then Eve. ;And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Adam was not deceived but is guilty of not giving Eve the inspired prophecy failed to protect.

In that way the church represented by Eve designed as the weaker vessel. Strong in faith Like Deborah

 

[Johanabrahams]

It's pretty clear that there wasn't a choice. God just expected that he would be obeyed.

God created the angel to present to Adam/Lucifer the choice, Brother. To believe that God lied and that the tree of knowledge used by man's intellect in being "God" is actually a good tree to eat. Because they are going to be "gods" too. While God said that tree creates death. So it is a choice in believing the Truth from God or the lie which Adam/Lucifer wanted to believe. And we all know they chose to believe God lied and was actually keeping "good fruit" of the tree of knowledge from them.

Gen. 3:
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

??? Interesting. Bizarre, but interesting. I think God just created Adam as Adam (Gen 2:19). What causes you to append this word Lucifer?

Adam and Lucifer is the same person. Both were created good with the ability to make choices. Both decided to be "gods" in their own right. And both died when they entered their human/god lives in intellect with their knowledge they enter into their intellectual minds by which they create their human god life on earth for themselves.

Why would God create Adam apart from "enjoying Real God Life in the Holy Spirit of God's own Existence" if all of creation was good? Did not Adam walk with God in the cool of the morning? Enjoying the life God intended for Man?

God's God Life was in the Tree of Life. Which is clearly seen in Jesus in the Bible. Only in Jesus do we enter God Life in Righteousness and Holiness of the Holy Spirit and enjoy God's own Purpose and Fulfillment and His Fruit of His Love and Joy and Peace and Power of His Existence.

As one living in the top 1%, I have no problem looking around the world and seeing 99% are not having fun, but live in what amounts to a real hellhole.

That is admitting you as the 1% with your "nice life", presumably in money and what it can buy for you, is enjoying your human life and what you can create with your intellect and knowledge in being god of your own life. You don't even see it is also part of "the hellhole", Brother.

 

[emanuel88]

The devil had freewill and he's rebelious ways are the reason of our fall. We should not be in sufferment. God did not want this, he wanted us to be in Eden and be happy forever. God did gave freedom to man after the garden and Jesus is an example that he says once your baptized you a new animal and free from the bondage of the law and can be saved. Freedom to choose is given to live and survive and do his will.

But humans have that promblem they don't know they freedom and don't take responsibility of themselves. Remember one example of how to use your freewill is Jesus. He is the example of what God want's us to do but we all fail. Becuase we depend on the body or corporeal way of life in this world. To do things in faith is hard.

 

[Rhema]

God created the angel to present to Adam/Lucifer the choice, Brother.

No.
He didn't.
There is absolutely no scripture to support this wild fantasy.
The same fantasy as your fictional term of "Adam/Lucifer."

If I could kindly suggest that you do a deep study on the word "Lucifer" ?? You might be surprised to find that the second epistle of Peter calls Jesus - Lucifer.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and Lucifer arise in your hearts:​

(2 Peter 1:19 KJV)

Greek - phōsphoros
Latin - lucifer

That's what's written,
Rhema

 

[emanuel88]

Whoa, comeback there is that definition in the verse Greek - phōsphoros we know that lucifer is not Jesus. Paul uses the example of the light and God is light but Jesus is not the same as lucifer and they are different. Their is an explanation for that. I'm sure let me bring it up because have read it and their is a reason for that part Peter wrote and Jesus is not Lucifer.

Johana, Lucifer and Adam are not the same read the whole thing and we are giving choice and their is a reason of freewill. We were not suppose to know good or evil but still Jesus gave the answer to fulfilling God's plan please explain this Adam/Lucifer you are saying ?

 

[Johanabrahams]

There is absolutely no scripture to support this wild fantasy.

There is. Jehovah spoke in Jesus the same thing. Where we know that Adam/Lucifer was created as the best of God's creation. Lucifer means Good. Just as Adam means Good. But after they chose to became gods of this world in intellect and eating the tree of death, death manifested in Adam/Lucifer in doing now good and evil things. As all humans does. And in doing evil things Adam/Lucifer is now the "devil" one earth. Meaning bringing in all evil things too. Like wars and rape and theft and murder etc.

John 8:
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The same fantasy as your fictional term of "Adam/Lucifer."

Ok. You need Revelation from God on everything in the Word, Brother. That is how Paul and all Disciples in their Gifts speak. Even you need a Gift to speak. Which simply means being able to hear from God what you have to write down here.

1 Cor. 2: 4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

If I could kindly suggest that you do a deep study on the word "Lucifer" ?? You might be surprised to find that the second epistle of Peter calls Jesus - Lucifer.

This reveals you have no Gift from God to listen to Him and say what He gives you to speak. You get yours from your intellect and knowledge you enter there. Which is knowledge from the tree of knowledge given to humans who are hiding from God's Voice.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and Lucifer arise in your hearts:

Sure, Brother. Lucifer or Adam is also the "Last Adam". The Good in Perfection where they are eating of the Tree of Life and is manifesting the Glory of God from Heaven. In being created by His Word of Jesus to be the Perfection of the Word in Living it.

1 Cor. 15:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

 

[Garee]

There is. Jehovah spoke in Jesus the same thing. Where we know that Adam/Lucifer was created as the best of God's creation. Lucifer means Good. Just as Adam means Good. But after they chose to became gods of this world in intellect and eating the tree of death, death manifested in Adam/Lucifer in doing now good and evil things. As all humans does. And in doing evil things Adam/Lucifer is now the "devil" one earth. Meaning bringing in all evil things too. Like wars and rape and theft and murder etc.

John 8:
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Ok. You need Revelation from God on everything in the Word, Brother. That is how Paul and all Disciples in their Gifts speak. Even you need a Gift to speak. Which simply means being able to hear from God what you have to write down here.

1 Cor. 2: 4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

This reveals you have no Gift from God to listen to Him and say what He gives you to speak. You get yours from your intellect and knowledge you enter there. Which is knowledge from the tree of knowledge given to humans who are hiding from God's Voice.

Sure, Brother. Lucifer or Adam is also the "Last Adam". The Good in Perfection where they are eating of the Tree of Life and is manifesting the Glory of God from Heaven. In being created by His Word of Jesus to be the Perfection of the Word in Living it.

1 Cor. 15:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

The cause of the fall, false prophecy (neither shall you touch.)

Remember the tree in the center of the forest surrounded. In that parable the tree of life is hidden. Giving us a spiritual understnding. Not to add or subtract form the living word .

The lust of the flesh doing the first work .Lustfully drawn to the center .then the lust of the eyes the took over the two-building block of false pride.

Touching it not dying They ate the false prophecy the forbidden fruit

 

[Rhema]

Whoa, comeback there is that definition in the verse Greek - phōsphoros we know that lucifer is not Jesus.

Latin -

et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris​

(2 Peter 1:19 Latin)

quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes​

(Isaiah 14:12 Latin)

we know that lucifer is not Jesus

I rather think you need to study some more.

Lucifer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Their is an explanation for that. I'm sure let me bring it up

Whenever you're ready. (I can't wait to hear yet another fantastical "explanation.")

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Lucifer means Good.

Yet again someone else who makes wild unfounded statements and can give no supporting proof.

(Not surprised.)

Rhema

ONLINE LATIN DICTIONARY - Latin - English

Latin Dictionary: the best Latin dictionary with a conjugator and a Latin declension tool available online for free!

www.online-latin-dictionary.com

1 full of light, carrying the light, which illuminates
2 (of the goddess Lucina) that leads to the light, that gives born

(No mention of "good" - as expected.)

lucifer, luciferi - Latin word details - Latin-English Dictionary

Meaning, morphological information, and usage data of the Latin term lucifer, luciferi

www.latin-english.com

• morning star, day star, planet Venus
• bringer of light

Again, no mention of "good." (Too bad.)

 

[Rhema]

Ok. You need Revelation from God on everything in the Word, Brother.

Which "Word" ? (There are two of them.)

Or might you need "Revelation" on this too?

At this point, it looks like you're just leaning on your own (uneducated) understanding.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

This reveals you have no Gift from God to listen to Him and say what He gives you to speak. You get yours from your intellect and knowledge you enter there.

Well I can agree that you don't get yours from any intellect and knowledge, so... the devil loves uneducated minds. Ones that invent terms and spin the most fantastic religious fictions.

Rhema

 

[emanuel88]

Latin -

et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris​

(2 Peter 1:19 Latin)

quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes​

(Isaiah 14:12 Latin)


I rather think you need to study some more.

Lucifer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Whenever you're ready. (I can't wait to hear yet another fantastical "explanation.")

Rhema

I don't need to study your trying to make lucifer into Jesus christ. Even though phōsphoros is for Jesus was used he is not lucifer simple as that. Wait just gathering information please.

 

[Johanabrahams]

Well I can agree that you don't get yours from any intellect and knowledge

This is a lie of course. I said I get Revelation from God, Brother.

so... the devil loves uneducated minds.

The devil actually loves "educated minds". And God loves "uneducated minds". So this is two lies here, Brother.

1 Cor. 1:
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Ones that invent terms and spin the most fantastic religious fictions.

That is exactly why the devil loves the "clever minds" who can "cleverly do this spinning", Brother.

 

[Rhema]

your trying to make lucifer into Jesus christ

No. I'm not.

I'm saying it's not as simplistic as you would like it to be.

phōsphoros is for Jesus was used he is not lucifer simple as that

lucifer is the Latin word for the Greek word phosphoros. It's also the word for "Day Star" aka the planet Venus.

Wait just gathering information please.

Well, you're not going to change the definitions of either Latin or Koine Greek, but I'm glad to see that you'll be doing some study.

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

This is a lie of course. I said I get Revelation from God, Brother.

One does wonder what voice you're listening to.

The devil actually loves "educated minds". And God loves "uneducated minds". So this is two lies here, Brother.

The devil can get away with his whispers into the uneducated mind. Not so easy to fool one who is learned.

God loves everybody, and tries to protect the stupid.

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:​

(Isaiah 1:18 KJV)

Ya can't really reason with the ignorant.

From what I can see, you disdain the Bereans.

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.​

(Acts 17:11 KJV)

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;

It is written foolish THINGS, not fools or foolish people.

But since you quoted Paul, wasn't he the really educated one? And don't most all Christians follow the teachings of this man? Why did God choose the educated one, and not the "backwards" twelve?

That is exactly why the devil loves the "clever minds" who can "cleverly do this spinning", Brother.

How clever of you.

Rhema

 

[Garee]

There is. Jehovah spoke in Jesus the same thing. Where we know that Adam/Lucifer was created as the best of God's creation. Lucifer means Good. Just as Adam means Good.

Yes, both fell.

 

[Rhema]

Lucifer means Good. Just as Adam means Good.

Neither word means Good.

Why do think you have the standing to just invent your own definitions?

You don't, you know.

Rhema